Hi all, another post looking for help if you can spare it xD

Squidgeypaws007

Hi all,

Great thread here, a mine of info - really useful.

I'm biting the bullet here and posting to ask for some help with what I'm doing. I've asked a few times on my newsfeed but my great pals have been unable to help with whatever my issue is. I'm wary of posting in the general forums, not because I can't take feedback, but because you get a huge variety of opinons and it's often hard to sort out the total crap, from the actually useful stuff, so this group looks great

Anyway, this is an ongoing thing so I'll summarise.

I lost 20Ibs last year, going from 172-152. Bf% 40-25. In November I took some advice and took a week break from my routine, diet and exercise. That is where my issue started.

After that I started to gain and lose the same couple of Ibs (152-150 and back), in January I gained a Ib and a bit and then stalled totally, sitting at 153 (and a bit).

My weight then stayed completely steady until July, when I took part in a 100km walk and broke a couple of bones in my foot. I was completely useless for 6 weeks after that, stopped logging my food and was limited to as far as I could get on my crutches. My weight dropped to 148 (the lighest I've ever been).

I steadily increased my exercise as soon as I could bear weight, first walking 5k 3 times a week, to running it. My weight increased again to 150. Then about 7 weeks ago (from now) I started lifting again. Initally with water weight I got to 160Ibs (impressive I know) and then about a week after that I dropped to 155 and have sat there ever since.

I have seen some lovely recomp going on, loss of inches on waist/thighs, gain of a 0.5cm on biceps (I know it's not much, but I like it xD), abs showing through etc.

So the question now is: how do I lose the fat and the extra Ibs? Just the fact that I have essentially been stalled since Jan (excusing the atrophy of the summer) is driving me a bit nuts!

Some extra info:
-I use QUICK ADD calories to a NEGATE my calorie burns (I like logging them in my diary, it helps me track and keeps my motivation up).
-I work on a week-week principle with the calories e.g. one day over and one day under essentially cancels out in my head (if I have a lot of extra calories missed in the week I'll eat them back over the weekend).
-I try to build in a couple of hundred calories per week to allow for forgotten calories, so if you see extra quick add calories in my diary that's what I'm doing with them.
-I'm ovo-lacto vegetarian (if that's any use to you!).
-I changed my kcal goals from 1733 to 1600 last night thinking just to lower my calorie intake, so my diary might look a bit weird.




Provide your stats (height/weight/age/bodyfat% if you know it/etc): 5'5"/155Ibs/27/23%

What's your current gross intake of calories, on average?
-1733 (have changed my goals just yesterday to 1600 before I found this group, was going to try 1600 net).

What's your current average intake of protein, carbs, and fats, in grams? (GRAMS, not percent!)
-120p/160c/53f

Do you use a food scale and measure everything?
-I use a scale on the majority of items - save for pre-packaged items or when my husband cooks.

Do you track all of your intake, daily? (Everything?)
-Yes - as well as I can remember, often I log in the evening if I've not had a chance to do it during the day.

Do you take cheat days or days off?
-Yes. Kind of. I allow myself some fancy food once or twice a week but IIFYM.

How much weight have you lost so far and over what time period?
-18Ibs over 22 months.

Describe your activity (exercise and non exercise) and did you change that activity withing the last couple of months?

-Teacher: long periods standing/walking a day.
-4 weight workouts per week (heavy as I can go, 5reps, 5 sets)
-3 cardio workouts per week (1x40 mins, 2x20 mins)

-n.b I substitute some weights for cardio on days where I am unable to make the gym for whatever reason and combine my split sets into whole body - usually only one day per week and rarely.

-Changes:
-Will be adding 2 x 60 minute cardio sessions to my routine.

How long have you been stalled and if it is not a complete stall please be very specific as to how much you have lost over the stalled period.

-If we look aside from the anomoly over the summer it's 11 months now.

-If we look at after the summer we're at 6 weeks now.

Are you breastfeeding?
-No

Do you have thyroid issues/risks or PCOS?
-Not that I know of.

Your help would be greatly appreciated. My diary is open

(Also, please look past last week - it's atypical to my usual. If you feel it has something to do with things then by all means use it, but as I say, it's not my usual eating pattern.)

Thanks :flowerforyou:

SideSteel

Tagging.

To make sure I understand correctly with your use of quick adds:

For example if you have a goal intake of 1700 calories and you exercise and burn off 300 calories, you log that exercise and MFP then sets your goal to 2000. You then do a quick add of 300 calories which puts your gross intake at 2000 calories. But you didn't actually eat those 300 calories. So your diary for that day will show that you ate 2000 calories but you really ate 1700.

Is this correct?

laserturkey

Tagging.

To make sure I understand correctly with your use of quick adds:

For example if you have a goal intake of 1700 calories and you exercise and burn off 300 calories, you log that exercise and MFP then sets your goal to 2000. You then do a quick add of 300 calories which puts your gross intake at 2000 calories. But you didn't actually eat those 300 calories. So your diary for that day will show that you ate 2000 calories but you really ate 1700.

Is this correct?

That's the way I understood it, too.

I think that sort of hocus-pocus with the numbers needs to stop. I think it would be helpful to be strictly accurate with your logging, insofar as that is possible. That includes weighing foods that are pre-portioned out, too. I find a great number of things that weigh more than the amount indicated on the packaging. My sliced bread was actually about 12% more bread per slice than the label said. Over time, that sort of thing adds up.

I also think it is important to look at measurements here, especially with the strength training you're doing. Is the weight on the scale really that useful? I'd go with the measuring tape instead.

Are you taking adequate rest days to let your body recover from the workouts?

SideSteel

. Is the weight on the scale really that useful? I'd go with the measuring tape instead.

It's not a matter of using one metric and disregarding others as much as it's a matter of using multiple metrics and knowing how to interpret them and use them accordingly.

Measuring tape can be useful and should be used as one metric but the scale shouldn't be disregarded.

laserturkey

. Is the weight on the scale really that useful? I'd go with the measuring tape instead.

It's not a matter of using one metric and disregarding others as much as it's a matter of using multiple metrics and knowing how to interpret them and use them accordingly.

Measuring tape can be useful and should be used as one metric but the scale shouldn't be disregarded.

True, but I think in this case OP is far too focused on the scale.

Squidgeypaws007

Tagging.

To make sure I understand correctly with your use of quick adds:

For example if you have a goal intake of 1700 calories and you exercise and burn off 300 calories, you log that exercise and MFP then sets your goal to 2000. You then do a quick add of 300 calories which puts your gross intake at 2000 calories. But you didn't actually eat those 300 calories. So your diary for that day will show that you ate 2000 calories but you really ate 1700.

Is this correct?

Yes, that is correct

ETA: I don't know if that messes anything up, I'm not so good with maths, but I thought it would just cancel the exercise out - so instead of not adding my exercise, I can still do that but negate it in the diary?

Squidgeypaws007

That's the way I understood it, too.

I think that sort of hocus-pocus with the numbers needs to stop. I think it would be helpful to be strictly accurate with your logging, insofar as that is possible. That includes weighing foods that are pre-portioned out, too. I find a great number of things that weigh more than the amount indicated on the packaging. My sliced bread was actually about 12% more bread per slice than the label said. Over time, that sort of thing adds up.

I also think it is important to look at measurements here, especially with the strength training you're doing. Is the weight on the scale really that useful? I'd go with the measuring tape instead.

Are you taking adequate rest days to let your body recover from the workouts?

Hey Laser, thanks for commenting Although I know the numbers are an awkward gig I find it hard to stay motivated unless I have a display of what I've done over the week - which is why I did so well in exercise when I was part of the HBC challenge.

Thanks, I'll make sure to measure everything including pre-packaged!

Yes, I resta lot since the break, you may have noticed I don't do as much - my foot can't take as much still

And I know, but I would still like to drop the excess fat, which will come off in terms of Ibs

Squidgeypaws007

Taking out a duplicate post

Squidgeypaws007

True, but I think in this case OP is far too focused on the scale.

You may feel that I am, maybe I am - but surely each of us has our separate goals. Whilst you might want to lose all of the measuring tape, I would like to drop the extra Ibs - not because I'm scared of my weight, but because at 155ibs and 65 inches I am overweight. If I were going from a healthy 130 to a 135 in MUSCLE, I'd not be bothered - but in MY eyes the logic is that with the Ibs coming off so will the fat.

Unless you can lose fat without losing weight? Surely that would only happen at an equal gain of muscle/loss of fat and surely you'd have to have very low body fat, or very high muscle gain for that to work? If that's incorrect I can rethink everything

Furthermore, you'll notice in my original post that I've mentioned my loss of inches/gain of inches and loss of body fat and you'll have noticed NSVs in my newsfeed from the same things. I don't personally feel that I am scale obsessed, but I do feel it's an important part of the whole journey. How can I be making true progress if my scales don't match up?

SideSteel

Tagging.

To make sure I understand correctly with your use of quick adds:

For example if you have a goal intake of 1700 calories and you exercise and burn off 300 calories, you log that exercise and MFP then sets your goal to 2000. You then do a quick add of 300 calories which puts your gross intake at 2000 calories. But you didn't actually eat those 300 calories. So your diary for that day will show that you ate 2000 calories but you really ate 1700.

Is this correct?

Yes, that is correct

ETA: I don't know if that messes anything up, I'm not so good with maths, but I thought it would just cancel the exercise out - so instead of not adding my exercise, I can still do that but negate it in the diary?

It doesn't mess anything up as far as your actual results, but it messes up your ability to look at average intake over large time periods because the intake that MFP has recorded for you will not match your actual food intake. You are telling MFP that you are eating more than you are actually eating.

I don't use MFP's default methods but apparently there is a way to set the calorie expenditure to zero so that when you log your exercise, it doesn't add in additional calories to eat. Then, you wouldn't have to quick-add calories that you are not eating.

SideSteel

. Is the weight on the scale really that useful? I'd go with the measuring tape instead.

It's not a matter of using one metric and disregarding others as much as it's a matter of using multiple metrics and knowing how to interpret them and use them accordingly.

Measuring tape can be useful and should be used as one metric but the scale shouldn't be disregarded.

True, but I think in this case OP is far too focused on the scale.

I don't know how you're getting that from the information provided. The OP is providing Sara and I with specific information that we require so that we can diagnose her stall in weight loss.

Sarauk2sf

Tagging.

To make sure I understand correctly with your use of quick adds:

For example if you have a goal intake of 1700 calories and you exercise and burn off 300 calories, you log that exercise and MFP then sets your goal to 2000. You then do a quick add of 300 calories which puts your gross intake at 2000 calories. But you didn't actually eat those 300 calories. So your diary for that day will show that you ate 2000 calories but you really ate 1700.

Is this correct?

That's the way I understood it, too.

I think that sort of hocus-pocus with the numbers needs to stop. I think it would be helpful to be strictly accurate with your logging, insofar as that is possible. That includes weighing foods that are pre-portioned out, too. I find a great number of things that weigh more than the amount indicated on the packaging. My sliced bread was actually about 12% more bread per slice than the label said. Over time, that sort of thing adds up.

I also think it is important to look at measurements here, especially with the strength training you're doing. Is the weight on the scale really that useful? I'd go with the measuring tape instead.

Are you taking adequate rest days to let your body recover from the workouts?

Hi!

While we appreciate your input, we actually ask people not to give input on intake threads as it becomes confusing for the OP when they start to get lots of conflicting advice, as well as harder and more time consuming for us to give advice. One of the reasons that we started this group was to specifically avoid that.


Please see the rules re posting in threads. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/861596-please-read



.

Squidgeypaws007

It doesn't mess anything up as far as your actual results, but it messes up your ability to look at average intake over large time periods because the intake that MFP has recorded for you will not match your actual food intake. You are telling MFP that you are eating more than you are actually eating.

I don't use MFP's default methods but apparently there is a way to set the calorie expenditure to zero so that when you log your exercise, it doesn't add in additional calories to eat. Then, you wouldn't have to quick-add calories that you are not eating.

Oh really? Ok I'll have a look in the settings and see what I can see

Squidgeypaws007

And hi Sara

Squidgeypaws007

I don't know how you're getting that from the information provided. The OP is providing Sara and I with specific information that we require so that we can diagnose her stall in weight loss.

Thank you I tried to give as much info as possible, if I've missed anything let me know!

Sarauk2sf

It doesn't mess anything up as far as your actual results, but it messes up your ability to look at average intake over large time periods because the intake that MFP has recorded for you will not match your actual food intake. You are telling MFP that you are eating more than you are actually eating.

I don't use MFP's default methods but apparently there is a way to set the calorie expenditure to zero so that when you log your exercise, it doesn't add in additional calories to eat. Then, you wouldn't have to quick-add calories that you are not eating.

Oh really? Ok I'll have a look in the settings and see what I can see

You just put the calorie burn at 1 when you enter it. For some reason you cannot put to zero.

Sarauk2sf

And hi Sara

*waves hi*

Squidgeypaws007

You just put the calorie burn at 1 when you enter it. For some reason you cannot put to zero.

I did this a while ago but completely lost motivation for doing the exercise - I like the feedback I get from my pals and also seeing the numbers increase through the week - hence why I've been quick adding to negate.

Something else I meant to say but have completely forgotten.

ETA: that's it. Completely irrelevant now I come to think of it. Just that I'd looked at the support forums when Steel said and there's no other way than the way Sara just said.

andeey

SS and Sara will give the advice, this is just a quickie comment about the exercise count ... I use the 1 calorie in MFP concept and then immediately add a comment to that with the actual burn and what I did. I found that over time, I still got the "motivation" part by doing that and my pals comment on my workouts, which gives me that super tingly feeling of joy. So, you may want to just try that and see if it helps as a compromise.

Back to the experts...

laserturkey

Tagging.

To make sure I understand correctly with your use of quick adds:

For example if you have a goal intake of 1700 calories and you exercise and burn off 300 calories, you log that exercise and MFP then sets your goal to 2000. You then do a quick add of 300 calories which puts your gross intake at 2000 calories. But you didn't actually eat those 300 calories. So your diary for that day will show that you ate 2000 calories but you really ate 1700.

Is this correct?

That's the way I understood it, too.

I think that sort of hocus-pocus with the numbers needs to stop. I think it would be helpful to be strictly accurate with your logging, insofar as that is possible. That includes weighing foods that are pre-portioned out, too. I find a great number of things that weigh more than the amount indicated on the packaging. My sliced bread was actually about 12% more bread per slice than the label said. Over time, that sort of thing adds up.

I also think it is important to look at measurements here, especially with the strength training you're doing. Is the weight on the scale really that useful? I'd go with the measuring tape instead.

Are you taking adequate rest days to let your body recover from the workouts?

Hi!

While we appreciate your input, we actually ask people not to give input on intake threads as it becomes confusing for the OP when they start to get lots of conflicting advice, as well as harder and more time consuming for us to give advice. One of the reasons that we started this group was to specifically avoid that.


Please see the rules re posting in threads. http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/861596-please-read



.

My apologies! I hadn't even noticed this post was in a specific group. I'll keep mum from now on.

SideSteel

Hey!

In order for us to make a reasonable recommendation, we will need to see data that represents your actual food intake. The current data set doesn't provide that due to the quick add feature.

However, I believe MFP will allow you to go back into your diary and remove quick adds. If you would like us to look at your intake and potentially make adjustments, we would like you to go back for at least two weeks (3-4 weeks would be ideal) and delete the quick adds in each daily food diary. If you do this, and notify us when it's complete, we can then re-run your averages.


The alternative suggestion would be to stop using the quick add feature in the manner you are currently using it, and log accurately moving forward, and contact us in two weeks with an update where we would then look at that two week data set.

Squidgeypaws007

Hey Steel, I was going to say - I'll go through and remove all of the quick adds. I've only been doing it for a couple of weeks now, just to try and keep my diary tidy. I used to just leave 300 kcal at the end of the day when I'd exercised.

That's another question btw: with TDEE, does it assume a certain calorie burn? Like, if I burn 1, 000 kcal on a day but usually only 500 kcal should I eat the extra calories back? I guess you'll look at net intake anyway and let me know that

SideSteel

Hey Steel, I was going to say - I'll go through and remove all of the quick adds. I've only been doing it for a couple of weeks now, just to try and keep my diary tidy. I used to just leave 300 kcal at the end of the day when I'd exercised.

That's another question btw: with TDEE, does it assume a certain calorie burn? Like, if I burn 1, 000 kcal on a day but usually only 500 kcal should I eat the extra calories back? I guess you'll look at net intake anyway and let me know that

TDEE is total daily energy expenditure. If you are referring to using a TDEE method, where you calculate your TDEE and manually set that (or a percentage of it, such as TDEE - 20%) as your goal intake, it assumes an overall average of activity and you do not eat back calories burned during exercise.

So for example you may have a set-up that does not use TDEE, where you are set to eat 1600 cals per day to lose 1lb/week. You then burn 400 calories during exercise and it has you eat 2000 calories. You do this 4 days per week and the other 3 days per week you don't exercise so you eat 1600 cals.

So your week looks like this: 2000,1600,2000,1600,2000,1600,2000.

With a TDEE method it averages out that activity and has you eat like this: 1828, 1828, 1828, 1828, 1828, 1828, 1828.

Now, in the above example I pulled those numbers straight out of my *kitten*. It's obviously not going to work out exactly like the above but I'm using the above example to illustrate the difference in methods.

With BOTH methods, keep in mind that you are still making an estimation. The assumed intake prior to exercise in the MFP method is an estimate. The amount of calories you burn through exercise is also an estimate even if you use a HRM.

Both methods can work fine. I personally find the TDEE method to be simpler and more convenient.

You may find some additional explanation in this thread:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/818082-exercise-calories-again-wtf

Squidgeypaws007

So, if your BMR, for instance, is 1400 and you set your calorie intake for 1600 assuming this is your TDEE but then work out for 1,000 calories every day (as if, but lets go with it), rather than eating back the excess calories you'd up your calorie intake? Because, you'd assume that that would put you in a huge negative deficit.

I'm not really sure how to word the question as I mean it - I guess what I mean is - how do you set your activity level accurately? if you're too ambitious with it you'd end up eating more than you should, but if you underestimate surely you're also doing yourself a disservice?


And I've just been through, removed all quick adds (aside from one where I got home from work really late and just couldn't log, so estimated - that's really not the norm though).

I've also set my goals back to what they were at

SideSteel

So, if your BMR, for instance, is 1400 and you set your calorie intake for 1600 assuming this is your TDEE but then work out for 1,000 calories every day (as if, but lets go with it), rather than eating back the excess calories you'd up your calorie intake? Because, you'd assume that that would put you in a huge negative deficit.

Sort of. If you assume your TDEE is 1600 but you exercise for 1000 calories daily, then you calculated your TDEE wrong. Using your above example your TDEE would be over 2400 (BMR + exercise calories + thermic effect of food + non exercise activity thermogenesis)

I'm not really sure how to word the question as I mean it - I guess what I mean is - how do you set your activity level accurately? if you're too ambitious with it you'd end up eating more than you should, but if you underestimate surely you're also doing yourself a disservice?

If you rely on an external calculator then it's some trial and error. If you rely on your intake data and results then it's a matter of looking at the data objectively and making conclusions where you can.

In BOTH cases, it's also critical to track and log accurately, observing the results over time, and adjusting based on results. That's basically what we do here when we monitor people's intakes during plateaus/etc. We are looking at as much information as we can and adjusting intake and/or activity accordingly.

Squidgeypaws007

Aha, got you

I shall rely on your much superior knowledge to help me gauge my activity levels and required calories from it - the maths always leaves me a bit fuzzy tbh!

SideSteel

Please reply here when you've completed the removal of the quick adds. Let me know the date range as well.

Squidgeypaws007

And I've just been through, removed all quick adds (aside from one where I got home from work really late and just couldn't log, so estimated - that's really not the norm though).

I've also set my goals back to what they were at

Did it the other day - I'd only been doing it for 3 weeks so didn't take too long to go through and take them all out - was from around 4th November to 25th November.

Squidgeypaws007

Heyhey, bumping as per the "bump in 48 hours" post

SideSteel

We would like you to set your macros to the following please. Keep in mind this is gross calorie intake and not net, so in other words you need to average the following intake:

1650
150 c
60 f
125 p


Please report back to us on 12/16 (two weeks from tomorrow) with an update to change in weight. Update us sooner if you are having issues or if you have questions.

Squidgeypaws007

Just checking to make sure I do this right: no eating back exercise calories and gross intake of 1650 (not net)?

Thanks, will keep you updated!