Adopt-A-Noob: BrainyBurro + ItsTimeCharlie

BrainyBurro

I started passing along information and advice to ItsTimeCharlie a few days ago by PM. I'll attempt to repost all of that information here at the beginning of this thread, and then resume all future conversations here on this thread.

here's my very first response to her request for advice:

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read this link. then read it again. forget a lot of the things that people have told you about how to lose weight (friends, family, TV, magazines, etc) and re-learn what really matters and what doesn't.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants

you don't have to eat like a rabbit and wear yourself out on an elliptical or treadmill to lose weight. in fact, that regimen will almost certainly fail in the long run. food is just food. no food is bad food. eat whatever foods you enjoy and don't deprive yourself of foods that somebody has convinced you are "bad". food is fuel. the key is to worry about the total calorie intake - not where your calories came from. get your nutritional needs met with tracking your micro- and macro-nutrients. cardio helps increase your calorie burn for the day, which can be used to help reach your calorie deficit goal and/or to give you more calories to eat if you're still hungry that day. don't try to do things too fast. you didn't put on 100lbs overnight and you won't take it off overnight. there are physiological problems with trying to have too much of a calorie deficit for too long. lift weights to give yourself muscle mass. it won't make you bulky, but it will be the difference between looking good in clothes (cardio) and looking good out of your clothes (strength training).

BrainyBurro

soak up knowledge from MFP like a sponge.

find out who actually knows what they are talking about on here and who doesn't. there are lots more people on here who don't know a damned thing in the public forums. these are the people pushing detoxes, cleanses, body wraps, meal replacement shakes, and all sorts of demonization of various types of food (e.g. low carbers, low fats, no sugar, clean, paleo, etc.).

i promise you that the smartest and most effective way to lose weight and keep it off is to find the plan that is simplest to adhere to, with the minimum dietary restrictions, and with the fewest rules. that's how you make a lifestyle change and not just a diet.

i do IIFYM. i don't believe in any sorts of unnecessary restrictions on what i eat or when i eat. i simply follow the math and science. the only foods i avoid are foods i don't like.

IIFYM = if it fits your macros

it is the essential philosophy for any healthy weight loss eating regimen.

in a nutshell, you make your food choices based only on meeting your daily micro- and macro-nutritional requirements and whether you enjoy the foods or not.

anything else that is layered on top of this is unnecessary and just complicates things. not that you can't lose weight with those other methods, but the reason for the healthy weight loss is because the micro- and macro-nutrients are being met.

i'll tell you something else that is a secret... the key to all of this is a healthy mindset about it all. don't obsess. don't worry too much about the scale. don't worry too much about going over on your calories some days. this is a long term process and the goal is to understand that over time, it's the trend in your weight that matters. the blips up and down from day to day don't matter that much. so long as the trend is moving in the right direction, you are on track.

BrainyBurro

ok, first things first...

let's get your calorie goal and macros set properly.

what's your weight?

what's your body fat percentage? it's ok to estimate this one. compare yourself honestly to the women on this picture (below) and tell me what percentage you think you are.

how much weight do you want to lose?


http://cdn.builtlean.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/body-fat-percentage-women.jpg

BrainyBurro

ok, so let's start with your macros.

dietary fat is a very important for all sorts of bodily functions. i wouldn't worry too much right now about the different types of fats. just avoid trans fats (which have a peculiarly bad effect on the body according to some research).

this is some background reading about fats: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fat/NU00262

your fat goal per day is a MINIMUM. try to meet or exceed it. some days you'll be under. some days you'll be over. what matters is the weekly and monthly averages. trying to meet it every day helps keep your weekly and monthly averages in line. don't stress to much if you don't meet it every day though. every couple of days you can eat extra and make up for any shortfall.

as a vegetarian, you may have trouble getting enough fats in your diet. your friend then is going to be dairy and nuts. i like peanut butter to help me increase my fats.

fat goal = 0.35g/lb of bodyweight.

right now (at 275lbs) your fat goal should be about 96g. this is your GOAL.

now for your protein goal.

protein is really important for preserving and building muscle mass. this is another daily MINIMUM. try to get this much or more per day.

protein goal = 1.0g/lb of lean body mass.

i am going to say that you are 50% BF because that errs on the side of MORE protein for you and i also suspect you have a little bit of body dysmorphia that makes you think you're more than 50%.

protein goal (at 275lbs) is 137g per day.

as a vegetarian, you will likely have trouble meeting this number. this is why you may need to add protein shakes to your diet.

a protein shake is basically a glass of milk (or water) with whey powder. it's a supplement. it's not the same as a meal replacement shake. meal replacement shakes are bad. protein shakes are good.

there's a good list on MFP that sarauk2sf posted showing various protein content of different foods.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/926789-protein-sources

those are really the only macros you need to monitor. you don't have to worry about carbs or sugars or anything else unless you have a specific medical reason to. some people track fiber, but i don't worry about that because i don't have any issues with constipation.

now that we know your two main macro goals, we have to figure out your calorie deficit goal. if you are 275lbs, i think we can safely start you losing at a 3lbs/week rate. that means that each day, we want your calorie intake to be 1500 calories less than the calories you expended (TDEE). you get that deficit by a combination of lowered food intake and cardio.

once we know this calorie deficit, we can figure out what % of those calories need to be protein and what % need to be fats and plug that into your settings so that it shows up in your diary. for now, make a note of the fats and protein goals i gave you and just get in the habit of logging all the food you're eating.

one thing worth understanding is that the way MFP allocates your macros is wrong. the % technique they use is for simplicity, but it's not accurate. your macros are a function of your bodyweight and BF%, not the amount of calories that you eat. what this means for all practical purposes is that YOU will be sanity checking your macro numbers every day to make sure they are good and not just relying on the MFP green/red system. here's an example why.

let's say you exactly meet your macro goals for fats and protein on the day. that means 96g and 137g. at the end of the night, you go for a 5 mile walk and burn an extra 600 calories. when you enter that in your exercise log, because MFP is set up for the % allocation method, it will insist that those extra 600 calories follow your %f/at%protein/%carb settings and tell you that you now need to eat more fats and protein. that's totally false. you met your body's needs already for those. the extra 600 calories from walking can be anything you want them to be. this is how people eat 600 calories of ice cream at night (for example). they met their macro goals with their normal intake and or part of their cardio calories and then all of their remaining cardio calories can be whatever they want them to be. this is the essence of IIFYM.

this may seem confusing at first, but if you think about it it makes sense.

let's say my TDEE for the day without any exercise was 2600. and my daily calorie deficit goal is 500. then i get to eat 2100 calories of food that day. if while eating those 2100 calories i meet my fats and protein goal, then my macros are taken care of. i could go to sleep and the day would be over and would be a good one, but let's say at 11PM i decide to go for a 4 mile walk. walking those 4 miles means my body needs more energy. that's all. it doesn't care where it comes from. it already knows i've met my protein and fats goal, so that extra energy can be 100% carbs for all it cares. MFP will tell me that those extra cardio calories need to follow the usual %p/%f/%c split, but they really don't. they can be whatever i want. so in this example, that's 4 miles or an extra 500 calories for me. furthermore, i can eat all, some, or none of those back depending on my goals. if i'm not hungry, i may choose not to eat any back. since 500 + 500 = 1000, that means my deficit would actually be 1000 calories that day. depending on my protein intake, the amount of strength training i'm doing, my bodyweight, etc... this may be perfectly fine for me and not put me in any danger of losing muscle mass.

we'll make use of this fact when determining your daily calorie goal (next).

BrainyBurro

ooooh this is exciting! Its gonna take me a little while to get my head around absolutely all of this, but I'm hearing ya!

So my fat goal should be 96g when MFP has actually calculated it at only 46g p/day

protein goal (at 275lbs) is 137g per when MFP has actually calculated it at only 69g p/day

I suspect this is why my muscles have been feeling like they are burning even only after a few days?? I could be wrong. But if I'm right, no wonder so many fail!

Right just gonna go read the dietary fats article. If we don't catch up today I look forward to my next lil lesson tomorrow

the MFP defaults are all wrong. their exercise calories are also notoriously wrong. i always double check my real burns with outside calculators.

i actually did an October 2013 challenge that you should read. it shows my thinking and also gives a glimpse of the spreasheet i use in conjunction with MFP.

i was doing the October 2013 challenge to demonstrate how i could eat pizza every day for a month and still lose 10lbs. unfortunately, i got really sidetracked by halloween candy that month. i made the mistake of buying it 2 weeks early and then snacking on it and eating it all before Halloween (d'oh!) and then buying more for Halloween and only having a handful of kids come by. even with all that (and a mini-binge on pop tarts and bagels on the last two days), i still lost about 4lbs. without that mini-binge and if i had walked those last 2 days, i'd have lost around 6-7lbs for the month. without the Halloween candy, i'd have been over 10lbs. so i can see exactly where i fell short of my goals and why. nevertheless, reading it might be illustrative for you. i think i'll redo it in February with a new challenge and without the candy temptation around.

you might find it enlightening to read through it.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1108045-brainyburro-s-october-2013-challenge

BrainyBurro

Hey BB I'm on the hunt this afternoon for a good Whey Protein to start me off. I have saved my fat and protein goals on my profile so I can find them quickly for now. Also I have set Cals section to Sat fats, Fats and Protein for now until you say otherwise.

Its seriously harder than I thought to get fats up and I can now see that Whey is really the only option for pumping up my protein.

I'm actually going to go to a shop that deals specifically in health supplements for body builders (a tad scared). I figure it will be the place I can buy just what I need rather than going to a supermarket.

Do you have any specific brands/types that you suggest I buy?

Thanks in advance.

i use Optimum Nutrition gold standard whey "double chocolate". i mix 2 scoops with 1 cup of Lactaid 2% milk (lactose free). i chug it down (but it tastes like chocolate milk to me so i like the taste anyway). it gives me 56g of protein in 370 calories. lots of people only use 1 scoop though.

this whey works well for me because it's essentially lactose free too. so i don't get any sort of digestive discomfort with my protein shakes.

BrainyBurro

i need to get this noob group up and running and do a data dump of everything we've discussed so far into the thread on there for you/me and then i can get back to passing along information to you. we'll move our discussions to that thread so that others can see them. right now, this is what you should be doing...

- eating at a calorie deficit according to what MFP has told you
- logging EVERYTHING accurately
- adding cardio
- monitoring your macros with your logging

you're not yet "dialed in" with your settings, but we'll get that done in the next day or two.

even though we've discussed your macros already, there is still some more discussion to be had (e.g. the goals are based on the ETP recommendations, but there is some room to play around with those numbers when one has lots of weight to lose, etc.)

hang in there with me for the next day or two and i'll get caught up and then be back to passing along the info that i've picked up along the way. after a week or two, i will have completely passed along my relevant experience to you. once you understand things the way i do, then you are well-armed to listen to other ideas and see for yourself if they make sense to you. that's my goal. i want to arm you with knowledge so that you can use your own critical thinking skills to modify things in whatever way you want to for yourself.

then it's just a matter of putting into practice what you've learned and see for yourself how well it works. with your starting weight, i think you can lose 60-75lbs in the first 6 months. hitting your macros in the process while doing cardio and strength training, will also help you reshape your body as you go. all while still enjoying foods you like and without stressing too much about how much you weigh or all of that other nonsense. it just takes some knowledge, common sense, and commitment. i'm pretty sure you can do it from what i know of you so far.

BrainyBurro

a useful link...

read this guy's story. he's in pretty close alignment with my own philosophy and i think his results will inspire you. you can and will do this! he's proof!!

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1162724-my-2013-new-year-s-resolution-led-to-dropping-180lbs-pics

ItsTimeCharlie

All of this info has already been hugely helpful. So much info I have been given has been wrong or confusing in the past. I look forward to being dialed in. Excited now! :happy:

BrainyBurro

can you tell me this information again?

age = ?
height = ?
weight = ?
how much you want to lose = ?
daily (non exercise) activity level = ? (basically describe your day briefly for me)
do you have any sort of health issues that would affect your diet?

ItsTimeCharlie

age = 36
height = 5ft 10" / 178cm
weight = 272.3lbs

how much you want to lose = As much as it takes to make me look and feel awesome! MFP are suggesting 154.3lbs

daily (non exercise) activity level = Sedentary until this week I have been sitting on a sofa working on a laptop for at least 3 years I have to arrange my day to include exercise or it slips my mind, I find other things to do and then its midnight

Do you have any sort of health issues that would affect your diet? I have experienced Hypoglycemia when attempting to diet, I'm not experiencing it at all yet and I suspect its because I'm eating much more then I'm used to when attempting to change my eating habits. I'm also not nearly as cranky. js

BrainyBurro

the first thing to do is to calculate your TDEE (without any exercise). i always treat exercise as "extra". it's better to log it when you do it than assume you're going to do it and build it into your calculations, and then not do it.

cardio serves 2 purposes... it burns calories to increase your TDEE, and it also allows you to eat more. some people eat back all of the calories, some eat back some of the calories, and some don't eat back any calories.

you have a good amount of weight to lose, so i think we can be somewhat aggressive at the beginning. MFP won't allow for you to set a rate higher than 2lbs/week loss, but if you can start including cardio, i think you can safely lose a little more than that during the first couple of months.

to calculate your BMR (which is a statistical number and won't be exact for most people, but will still be close enough for our purposes), you can use outside calculators. here's a simple one that i use. there are others that are more precise because they take into account your BF%, but this one should suit our purposes:

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

entering your stats, i come up with 2397 after accounting for your "sedentary" daily activity. let's call it 2400 for simplicity of calculations. MFP will come up with a similar number for you, but in my experience, their numbers are a little bit low. that's ok. that just means if you follow the MFP numbers, you'll get an extra unexpected calorie burn for the month! all we're doing right now is sanity checking the MFP numbers and devising a weight loss strategy.

your daily TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is about 2400 calories just from normal activity. this does not include cardio. if we set you up for a 2lb/week loss like MFP will allow, then your daily calorie goal would be 1400 calories. that's enough food to meet your nutritional needs, but you may still be hungry on 1400 calories or you may need more calories to meet your macros on a vegetarian diet. this is why cardio will be important to add to your regimen.

to bump your loss rate up to 2.5lbs/week, you'll need to add an extra 250 calorie deficit to each day. that can be accomplished by walking, jogging, running, swimming, zumba, etc. whatever works best for you and whatever you enjoy is the right cardio choice for you! you don't have to do it every day, but if you skip days, you'll have to do more on the days you don't skip to keep your daily average up.

at this point, you have to decide what you'd like to do with cardio and figure out how much you can reasonably expect to do each day/week. not everyone can go and do an hour on the elliptical at the gym every day, and this is precisely why i don't treat exercise as part of your activity level. instead, it's a bonus calorie burn on the days you do it. without any cardio, you can lose 2lbs/week simply adhering to a 1400 calorie intake. you do not want to undereat. you'll need all of those calories to meet your nutritional goals. if you're still hungry or still need more calories, then you can add cardio, or lower your rate of weight loss. that's pretty much how it works. either lose at a slower rate or move more.

i generally calculate my numbers at the beginning of the month and use those all month long. your BMR will decrease as you lose weight, so you will need to periodically recalculate it, but monthly works fine in this regard.

so here's where we are.

eating 1400 calories per day, with no extra cardio exercise, you can expect to lose about 8.5lbs per month. that's 51lbs in 6 months. is that enough? or do you want to lose a little more and/or eat a little more? if so... add cardio.

if you add 250 calories of cardio every day and eat those back, you'll get the same results, but with the added benefit of being able to eat 1650 calories per day... or if you don't eat those calories back and stick to 1400 calories, then you can expect to lose about 10.5lbs per month... or you can eat only some of the calories back and end up with a result in between. this is your choice to make and then we can "fix" your calorie goal based on that.

you may wonder how you can make this decision without knowing how much exercise can give you those extra calories (or even more extra calories). the answer to that is to use the various exercise calculators found on the web. MFP calorie burns from exercise are generally overstated, so always doublecheck their numbers against other calculators.

for example, for walking i use this one and it seems to give me correct numbers:

http://walking.about.com/library/cal/uccalc1.htm

for other exercises, try google.com to see if you can find a calculator for them. once we have your calorie goal set, it will determine how much exercise you need to do and that will help you plan for that.

then we can check and see if you are meeting your macros based on those calories. if not, it means making adjustments to your dietary intake and/or adjusting your calorie goal.

one useful fact to know is that 1g of protein = 4 calories. likewise with carbs (1g of carbs = 4 calories). however, 1g of fat = 9 calories. we've set your macro goals previously, but i said we'd revisit them. here's where we do that...

the goals for fats and protein are derived from studies usually based on people who are not morbidly obese (yeah, i hate that phrase too but i started there myself and let it motivate me). i suspect that when you have that much extra bodyfat, those goals may skew a bit on the high side (especially the fats goal). at the beginning, i think (and i've done this for myself) you can shoot for a fats goal that's still relatively high for someone at a normal bodyweight, but under the amount determined by the equation we used earlier. i don't have any science to support this, but there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that says you don't really need 96g of fat when you're morbidly obese. so for myself, i've lopped about 20g off my goal and i think you can lop 25g off your goal and still be fine for the first few months. i would keep this goal constant even as you lose weight and eventually you'll "catch up" to that goal when you get down to around 200lbs. if you weren't doing strength training, a similar sort of reduction is probably ok for your protein goal (maybe going from 1.0g/lb of LBM to 0.8g/lb of LBM). however, since you are going to be strength training, i suggest the most prudent course is to retain the 1.0g/lb goal.

what does this all mean? well...

70g of fats = 630 calories
136g of protein = 544 calories

630 + 544 = 1174 calories from your daily intake are fats and protein. that leaves 226 calories for carbs (~57g of carbs). carbs are ready energy and are used to fuel brain function. if you feel tired or lethargic all the time, then this usually means you're low on ready energy reserves and carbs are a good way to restore that. 57g of carbs may be enough to keep you feeling energized, but on a vegetarian diet, you'll likely be eating a lot more carbs than this. in order to meet your other macros, we once again have the same decision to make...

how much cardio can you add and how many calories can you eat back every day to give you more room in your dietary intake to allow for all of those carbs and your macros? this is the classic dilemma for vegetarians. somewhere you have to decide where you are going to cut corners on your macros or add a lot of cardio or scale back your weight loss expectations. lots of vegetarians simply decide to go low protein. they end up paying for that decision with increased LBM loss while losing weight. this is the problem with diets that restrict the foods you can eat... it just makes things harder than they need to be. it's fine if you want to be a vegetarian (lots of people do), but this is just part of the process you have to plan for as a result.

now, things become much easier if you can find the time to get in large cardio burns and eat back some of those calories. that is the ideal solution for all of this. it allows you a lot more flexibility in planning all of this. i generally walk every other day and average an 8.5 mile walk when i do. that's 1188 calories every other day, or an average of ~595 calories every day that i can use for extra food or extra fat burn. so it can be done!

strength training should also be done 3-4 times per week, but generally the calorie burns from that are low and most people just log them as 1 calorie. more muscle mass does increase your BMR however, so at a later date when your BF% comes down, you can compare the BMR results between the calculators that use BF% as part of the equation and those that don't. for right now, that's overkill.

does this make sense? what calorie goal do you think you want to shoot for? now that you see how your goal affects and is affected by what you will eat, how much cardio you will do, and your loss rate... you can make a decision and a plan for January. then in February we can look at your results and make any changes you feel appropriate after 4 weeks experience and feedback on the initial plan.

often, it takes a couple of months of refining things until you get really "dialed" in and know exactly what you can reasonably expect of yourself each day/week so that you can plan for it.

Ms_Hiit

linking to this because I keep referencing it :-)

ItsTimeCharlie

Hi BB I'm still up and I'm wondering if the carbs are keeping me up the last three nights lol 4am is becoming typical. Wishful thinking I guess.

I am actually setting up spreadsheets of information for my self right now. 1400 cals sounds like a good start and I am very happy with the idea of loosing 51lbs in 6 months, and more, the fitter I get ...I really struggled in the end last night, not sure why but I got through with over eating of 95 cals couldn't walk much out on the hill yesterday, massively rugged weather. The last 7 days seemed easy compared to yesterday.

I want to start this in the morning, possibly afternoon by the time I get up. I can commit to 4 strength training days a week likely Mon, Tues, Thurs and Friday, also twice a week there is a 50 min Zumba class (Tues and Weds), (don't know the burns on those) I get dizzy on the Elliptical but can cycle and walk on the treadmill at other points. I'm also enjoying when the wind isn't driving me insane, walking outdoors.

I only ever add fitness after I have done it, if I add it before I fear loosing motivation lol

I will do a search for calculators for the cals on each fitness option. You wouldn't believe it but I have been hunting for three days for my gym membership and found it half an hour ago. Are their reputable links out there for making up strength programs based on all of this?? Thankies all over again

ItsTimeCharlie

So I was up till 6am devising an evil plan to take over my world. These are my thoughts am I close to right?

Food intake: 1400cals req
To burn 2.5lbs: 250cals req

Per week: 11,550 in order to live and loose weight well.

I would like attempt this month to burn 3460cals p/w (3457cals to be precise). I'm hoping this will give me the 1750cals I need to burn my 2.5lbs per day AND the 1707 left over I can split into extra cals for fuel. So I now have 1707cals weekly to split, leaving an extra 243cals over and above the 1400 in food?

So if I'm right, then this should leave me a food diary goal of 1643cals per day

I'm not that great at math so if I'm wrong...just tell me

As far as the Carbs decision is concerned, right now I'm not really taking notice of it and just focusing on Fats, Proteins and keeping within my cals limits. I am eating around the 200 mark in carbs, but really struggling to pull that down so I figure focus on trying to get my proteins up. Getting used to the Protein shakes now.

I think I would rather go with what you think will work best. I'm here to listen and learn, not my strong point.

I went to the gym for the first time in months today and I used a basic routine.

40mins on bike
Basic Strength Training (Tricep Pulldowns, Leg Press, Dumbbell Curls, Tricep Ext and Pec Deck)
5min walk to warm down.

I'm finding all the calculators hard for the bike quite random so I'm really hoping I did burn what did today

I have set up a routine for this week and will adjust as I go along:
Monday: Strength + 40min Bike + Warm down
Tuesday: Mega dance fitness class 50mins + Strength + Warm down
Wednesday: Mega dance fitness class 50mins only
Thursday: Strength + 40min Bike + Warm down
Friday: Strength only
Saturday: Rest day
Sunday: Walk as far as I feel I can

Is this ok or do you think I'm trying to do too much too fast? I don't, but I have also failed more times than I care to remember. I'm definitely eating more fats than I have ever allowed myself when dieting. And I don't feel like I'm missing out, I am just not sleeping well at the moment it's likely cause I'm motivated to do this and really sparking my interest.

I'm keen to learn how to set up my diary setting to look however it needs to be

BrainyBurro

i'll answer these questions in parts.

first things, first...

your MFP macro default settings are wrong. they are wrong for everyone. here's how to fix them.

go to MY HOME and select GOALS from the sub-menubar and then choose "CUSTOM" for the modification method.

you can either keep MFP's calorie goal for you or you can directly overwrite it with the number you derived from an external calorie counter. this is up to you. i personally keep MFP's number and use that as my goal, even though i know my calorie burn is a little bit higher than that.

i leave my fitness goals all set at "0". this adheres to my philosophy to treat exercise calories as "extra" burn only on the days i do them. i don't want my exercise built-in to my numbers because from day to day, i don't know for sure how much i will be doing.

since MFP uses the % method for setting your macro goals, we have to do a little bit of math to correct this.

for example, let's say your protein goal based on your weight is 150g (for simplicity in these sample calculations) and your calorie goal is 1400 (again, fo simplicity).

150g of protein is 600 calories because 1g of protein = 4 calories.

600 is 43% of 1400 calories. there is no option to enter 43% exactly, so we need to round the number. since your protein goal is a MINIMUM, we round up and 43% -> 45%. in this example, we'd enter 45% in the macro goal setting for protein.

next, we'd do the same sort of calculation for your fats setting. keep in mind that 1g fat = 9 calories however. once the fats macro is entered, then whatever is left over must necessarily be carbs. you simply subtract the p% and f% from 100% and what's left is entered as your c%.

the rest of the fields can be filled out however your want. i don't track those other nutrients, but some people do and have their own goals for them.

this is how you customize your settings on MFP so that your "goals" in your food diary accurately reflect what you are trying to achieve.

BrainyBurro

Confession: Over the last three years I haven't had any motivation to get off my butt and workout. I used to lift weights with a friend about 5 years ago and loved that.

I own a gym membership. I have used it three times in the last 6 months because I have let my opinions of myself get the better of me. I'm keen to workout again daily or every second day. But I have no idea on the best weight training program for me. The friend I used to work out with was being trained so we used similar programs for fun. But I'm wanting to get serious now and that person isn't in my life.

Is it possible to go as far as I want to go without the help of a partner to spot you, or will I need to get some one on board to help me? Also I tell myself I hate cardio but I know I need to change that. I have always felt like it was a chore or hard work. Have you felt that way or have you always loved it, and how can I change my mindset?

In the meantime I'm making myself walk 15 mins a day at least until you can give me some right advice on this.

strength training serves 2 purposes. when you are eating at a calorie surplus, strength training will cause your muscles to adapt and grow. this adds muscle mass and strength. more muscle mass means better health, more definition (i.e. that mythical "tone" people talk about), a higher BMR, and a better overall appearance. when you are eating at a calorie deficit, strength training will help preserve your muscle mass (while also eating sufficient protein) and will help you get stronger (neuro-muscular adaptation). you generally won't add muscle mass while eating at a calorie deficit, but as you maintain your lean body mass (LBM) while losing fat, your BF% will decrease. when losing weight, you want the maximum about of fat to be burned, while preserving LBM. this is always the goal!

we call this "heavy lifting" on here because you lift heavy enough weights so that you fatigue your muscles within a certain range of sets/reps for a given weight. as your muscles get stronger over time, you add heavier weights so that you can still fatigue your muscles in that certain range of sets/reps.

here's an old thread which i believe helps explain it better.

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/978565--lifting-heavy-what-does-that-really-mean-for-women

not being a woman, i don't have any practical experience with what women go through getting started lifting for the first time in their lives, but one very popular beginner's program is New Rules of Lifting for Women (NROL4W). there are many thread on here about that program, as well as a couple of groups. those would be the best places to find out more:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/102-new-rules-of-lifting-for-women-nrol4w
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/12971-nrol4w-spring-2013

BTW, "New Rules of Lifting for Women" (NROL4W) is a book. you can buy it from amazon.com or other sources.

lots of people lift at home. you'll need some weights and barbells and a weight bench to do this. many people lift at a gym. you want to choose a gym that actually has the equipment you need. most people on here feel that free weights are the way to go. you can get some benefit in the beginning from the various weight machines, but they all limit your range of motion and you'll get more benefit using free weights.

if you go to lift at the gym when there are lots of people there working out, you can generally ask somebody to spot for you on the exercises where you might need it (e.g. bench press). this may take getting up the courage to ask a total stranger to help you (choose somebody who looks like they know what they are doing and who is not busy). most people would be happy to help. if you're not comfortable doing that, then going with a friend is the better choice. if that's not an option, then you'll just need to work up the courage to ask somebody. they won't judge you... in fact, many guys would be happy to help because guys who lift usually appreciate seeing women wandering away from the treadmills and over to the weights section of the gym. they can also help with your form (again, make sure you only take advice from somebody who knows what they are talking about). whatever you do, don't avoid going to the gym to lift for lack of a spotter. it's not a good reason to miss a workout.

with respect to cardio, you simply have to find something you enjoy and then it won't be a chore. i honestly find walking very easy. i can let my mind wander on a 3- or 4- hour walk and i walk at a comfortable pace outdoors in a scenic area. before i know it, i've done 10 miles or so. that's a lot of calories and i am not worn out for the rest of the day. if you have the time for that, you'd be amazed at how helpful it can be for meeting your goals. obviously, you can get the same calorie burn in less time by running, but if you don't enjoy running or are prone to injury, it's kind of silly to force yourself to do it just because that's what you think you're supposed to do. i have a friend on here who swims a lot. he enjoys that. the trick is to find something you enjoy and then make time for it.

BrainyBurro

if you really wanted to, you could hire a trainer for a few sessions to help you get up to speed with your lifting and form. remember, the trainer is your employee... you're paying them for their experience. make them focus on what you need from them, and not what they think you should be doing. lots of trainers are full of bad information and "broscience". however, if you find the right one who is knowledgeable and is not trying to force you to follow their program, you can benefit from having one for the first few gym sessions. they would of course be there to spot you for those sessions and you'd be able to get a better idea for yourself what would be involved in working out by yourself in the future (e.g. which lifts and at which weights where you'd definitely need a spotter).

BrainyBurro

So I was up till 6am devising an evil plan to take over my world. These are my thoughts am I close to right?

Food intake: 1400cals req
To burn 2.5lbs: 250cals req

Per week: 11,550 in order to live and loose weight well.

I would like attempt this month to burn 3460cals p/w (3457cals to be precise). I'm hoping this will give me the 1750cals I need to burn my 2.5lbs per day AND the 1707 left over I can split into extra cals for fuel. So I now have 1707cals weekly to split, leaving an extra 243cals over and above the 1400 in food?

So if I'm right, then this should leave me a food diary goal of 1643cals per day

I'm not that great at math so if I'm wrong...just tell me

let me see if i understand.

right now, we have your TDEE (no exercise) calculated at 2400.

if you choose 1400 as your calorie goal, that's a 1000 calorie deficit every day.

you want to lose at a slightly faster rate, so adding an average of 250 calories of cardio will increase your deficit to 1250 calories.

however, that still requires eating at 1400 calories. one thing to keep in mind, extra activity generally also means more hunger. your body will want you to eat to support that exercise. so another 250 calories of cardio would allow you to eat those 250 calories back to keep your hunger at bay.

so 500 calories of cardio EVERY day (or on average) will give you a 1250 calorie deficit and also allow you to eat 1650 calories per day.

i think this is reasonable for the first 4-6 weeks while you settle into these new habits.

in practice, you won't change your MFP goals to reflect a 1650 calorie goal. you'll leave it set for 1400. when you add exercise each day to your log, MFP will automatically increase your calorie goal because it thinks you will be eating ALL of these exercise calories. instead, you'll only be eating 50% of them. that means with exercise, MFP will tell you your goal is 1900 every day that you do 500 calories of cardio. it's not really your goal though. that is 1650 on those days, and 1400 on the days you don't exercise.

as you add exercise, MFP will also change your fats and protein goal. as i mentioned before, ignore those changes. you'll have fixed goals every day. adding exercise does not increase those goals. those exercise calories can be anything you want them to be. for this reason, i log all of my food first, verify my numbers against my goals, and then add my exercise at the end of the day.

ItsTimeCharlie

Thanks for that info, hopefully my stats are correct! I will read up on all the Strength Training info as soon as I can clear some of my work load argh...I don't feel like budgeting lol

BrainyBurro

one thing I have just realised tonight is that I am really struggling to keep my carbs down and my proteins up still. I can't seem to balance these well.

Will it make an impact on the over all scheme of things when it comes to my cals? I'm still within my Cal range so I'm assuming that means I'm still on track but the protein needs to come up as best as possible to give me the energy I need to keep up exercise.

I'm using protein drinks on my exercise days. I have missed two days this week due to things being shifted around in my life that I didn't expect but I have already planned to work out the rest of this week and have already made up a huge chunk of my burn this week

I'm finding strength training on the same day as cardio is shattering me. So I'm focusing on cardio right now and making sure I hit my goals. I figure I'm its in my best interest to burn fat right now if I have to choose. Once I can come up with a high protein low carb plan thats within my cals, I will definitely start up on strength. For now by the time I have finished cardio I can barely get through strength training.

all macros give you energy.

some carbs just turn into energy faster.

but whether you get 600 calories from protein or 600 calories from carbs doesn't really matter too much when it comes to your energy needs.

the difference is simply how your body uses these macronutrients.

maybe try not doing cardio and strength training on the same day.

try doing something like this.

M: weights
T: cardio
W: weights
TH: cardio
F: weights
SA: cardio
SU: rest

that's 3 days of cardio. do enough to get your weekly burn total.
that's 3 days of weights with a rest day between each
that's 1 day of total rest

don't try to do too much! that's how most new years resolutioners get burned out. it honestly sounds to me like you might be trying to do too much exercise. it's ok to be gung ho, but be smart about it.

you have a full 24 hours each day to get in your workouts... no need to stack weights and cardio back to back in a short time period. that would tire me out too. on days when i do lots of miles walking (14 or 17 miles), i generally do half of it in the morning and then the other half about 12 hours later. this gives me time to recover. i couldn't do it all in one long walk. but two walks spread apart in the day works. for example.

if you're going to do cardio on days you lift weights, make it low impact and casual cardio like a walk. lifting in the morning and then doing a casual 1 hr walk that evening would actually work much better for you i think.

if you're going to zumba or some sort of exercise like that at the gym, don't try to do it back-to-back with a weight workout.

you should eat enough protein every day, not just the days you lift. your body can't really store protein for later usage, so you really need to be getting what you need each day.

your vegetarian diet is going to make this harder for you because fruits and veggies are mostly carbs. so by default, you're eating a high carb diet while trying to stick to a calorie goal. i'm not surprised that you're ending up with carbs dominating your protein. lots of vegetarians have this problem.

your macros are important, but at the beginning they are not the most important thing to get sorted out. you're only 2-3 weeks into this, so you are still trying to find the regimen that works best for you.

1) get into the logging habit
2) determine your daily goals (calories, macros, exercise)
3) make sure you meet your calorie goal or get as close as you can
4) find the exercises you enjoy and figure out a schedule that works for you
5) monitor your macros. use supplements as necessary. don't neglect your fats goal!
6) tweak your diet as necessary
7) pre-log if necessary so you have an eating plan to follow each day

this is the sort of stuff you should be addressing in the first couple of months, but there's no huge hurry to get them all done right away in the first couple of weeks.

this should not be miserable. this should not be stressful. you should not be overly hungry. this should be fun for you. you're changing your lifestyle and those changes only work if your new lifestyle is enjoyable and sustainable.

i don't want you to force yourself into doing anything that you think you have to do, but which makes you miserable. this means not avoiding foods you love, or doing exercise you hate. we can always find alternative strategies so that you can enjoy the foods you love with some frequency and so that you genuinely enjoy the exercise you're doing.

all that stuff you see on TV with celebrity trainers screaming at overweight people and making them work out 10 hours a day until they faint is complete bullshit and if i were there, i'd punch those idiot trainers because they are teaching exactly the WRONG habits to get into for weight loss. that's why so many of those people on shows like The Biggest Loser end up gaining all of the weight back when they leave the show. they never learned the lessons needed for real life to change their lifestyle, so they couldn't sustain their losses from the show.

you can do this. i believe in you.

BrainyBurro

My cals being 1650 if fantastic right now, because I feel like I'm not failing when I go over the 1400 mark lol

I enjoyed walking on my day off. I want to buy some good solid walking shows and go out a bit more on the flats. I live on a hill in windy conditions, so not keen to walk up here till I'm feeling fit.

Life is good, I seriously have not lasted this long at all before and it feels like a lifestyle change more than anything!

the more you walk, the easier it becomes. even at a casual pace like 2.75mph or 3mph, your cardiovascular system will adapt and it becomes easier. i used to play sports when i was younger. and i even forced myself to run in my 20's (i hated that), but for about 10 years i stopped doing anything. then i started walking again. the first time out i went 5.3 miles. i needed 7-10 days to recuperate after that (legs and feet were sore!), but within a month or two i was going out for 5.3 mile walks every other day. then i got to the point where i was doing them 7 or 8 or 9 days in a row. that was my body adapting.

so i suggest just doing it. don't wait. go for the walks. you'll get more fit each time. you don't need to run to get fit. it's obviously faster when you run, but any sort of cardio forces your body to adapt and become more efficient.

make sure you hit your calorie deficit goals for the week and let's see how you did come the 1st. i suggest a once a month weigh in. if you have a good mindset you can weigh yourself more often (just be aware of the water weight fluctuations), but for MFP purposes, let's get you weighing in and adjusting your profile goals every 1st of the month.

i like weighing in on the first of the month. there is a strategy to how you do it. each weigh in should be as close to comparable conditions as possible. for most people, that means weighing-in first thing after going to the bathroom in the morning.

i actually do a bit more preparation than that. i will try to go lower cals, lower sodium, and lower fluid intake for a couple of days before the weigh in so that i'm as close to "actual" weight as i can be. this helps prevent me from getting wild water weight fluctuations showing up on the scale. also, going lower cals (especially the day before) will help keep you from weighing the food in your intestinal tract. there will be some in there of course, but the last thing you want to do before a morning weigh in is have a huge dinner the night before.

now's the time to start thinking how you want to do your weigh-ins. so long as you follow the same script before each one, you'll have a reasonably consistent set of conditions on all of your weigh-ins. of course, once you step off the scale and record your weight, you can sit down and have a huge breakfast. it's just that going into the weigh-in, you want to try and avoid the sources of extra weight that will affect the number. i've seen myself shed 7lbs of water weight in 24 hours, so of course, i'd rather weigh-in with those 7lbs gone than with those 7lbs on me

ItsTimeCharlie

Oh man just reading my messages tells me I must have been tired haha. Thanks for all this info, I can be pretty stubborn, or determined, depends on how you see it, so I'm pretty sure no one could make me do anything I didn't want to do Went for my first walk for this week yesterday after my injury, only 30mins and very slow, but I just needed to do something. Going nuts at home now.

Initial weigh in on Dec around the 27th: 272 lbs
Weigh in today 262lbs \m/(*-*)\m/

BrainyBurro

Oh man just reading my messages tells me I must have been tired haha. Thanks for all this info, I can be pretty stubborn, or determined, depends on how you see it, so I'm pretty sure no one could make me do anything I didn't want to do Went for my first walk for this week yesterday after my injury, only 30mins and very slow, but I just needed to do something. Going nuts at home now.

Initial weigh in on Dec around the 27th: 272 lbs
Weigh in today 262lbs \m/(*-*)\m/

good job.

go ahead and change your ticker. MFP will give you a new calorie goal based on your new weight. your macro ratio will stay the same. since we don't worry about macro ratios, you should go ahead and recalculate your macros based on the formulas listed earlier in this thread.

fats = 0.35 x bodyweight
protein = 1.0 x LBM

then check those numbers against what MFP is showing.

also, it's not a bad idea to separately sanity check your monthly numbers to see how close the 10lbs was to the expected amount. we do this by counting the total calories in and the total calories out for the month and see if the difference amounts to 10lbs. in the first month, some of your loss is going to be water weight, but it's still useful to do this sanity check. in month two, we'll do the same thing and that's when we can tell how accurate the calorie in and calorie out estimates are.

ItsTimeCharlie

Ok I feel a bit thick when it comes to calculations. And admittedly I'm feeling a little stressed after trying to work out what I have taken in last time.

The sanity check:
I have already set up my database so that it calculates each months Cal intake and Cal Burn.

For Jan:
Cal Intake Aim was: 51150
Cal Burn Aim was: 15750

My actual was:
Cal intake: 44,230
Cals burned: 14,348

I have also set the database up so I can work out the remainder of cals in/burn for the month.

My remainder was:
Cal intake: 6920
Cals burned: 1402

Based on my latest weight: 262 BMR 1950

new protein goal should be 130g
new fat goal should be 92g but I'm going to aim for 70g to 75g as you have suggested to me in a pm.

And I'm just about to try and go through your notes to work out how to know what I should be eating in cals vs my new weight for the month. I'm assuming I need to. MFP have put me up to 1450 cals

BrainyBurro

Ok I feel a bit thick when it comes to calculations. And admittedly I'm feeling a little stressed after trying to work out what I have taken in last time.

The sanity check:
I have already set up my database so that it calculates each months Cal intake and Cal Burn.

For Jan:
Cal Intake Aim was: 51150
Cal Burn Aim was: 15750

My actual was:
Cal intake: 44,230
Cals burned: 14,348

I have also set the database up so I can work out the remainder of cals in/burn for the month.

My remainder was:
Cal intake: 6920
Cals burned: 1402

Based on my latest weight: 262 BMR 1950

new protein goal should be 130g
new fat goal should be 92g but I'm going to aim for 70g to 75g as you have suggested to me in a pm.

And I'm just about to try and go through your notes to work out how to know what I should be eating in cals vs my new weight for the month. I'm assuming I need to. MFP have put me up to 1450 cals

going back through this thread, for january we had these settings...

sedentary TDEE = 2400
daily cardio goal = 500
TDEE + cardio = 2900
calorie goal = 1650
daily deficit = 1250

this would have resulted in a total deficit for the month of 38750 (11.07lbs)

your actual numbers:

daily cardio = 463 calories
TDEE + cardio = 2863
daily calories = 1426
daily deficit = 1437

your actual deficit for the month was 44547 (12.72lbs)

this is a little more than you actually lost during that period, so perhaps the cardio burn estimates we're using are a little high or the BMR estimate from the outside calculator is a little high. that's not a big deal... we can worry about correcting for that after a couple of months of data are in.

BrainyBurro

your new February numbers will look like this:

sedentary TDEE = 2340
daily cardio goal = 463
TDEE + cardio = 2803
calorie goal = 1650 <-- same goal as last month
daily deficit = 1153

this will result in a total deficit for the month of 32284 (9.22lbs)

this assumes you can do the same amount of cardio each day this month as last month.

if you can't do any cardio because of your ankle sprain and still eat at 1650 calories, your deficit will be 19320 (5.52lbs). that's still weight loss, so don't push yourself too soon to get in your exercise. let your body heal.

your average intake last month was below 1650. in fact it was 1426 calories. if you were meeting your macros at this calorie level and not feeling hungry, then that was ok. if not, you should try to eat closer to the 1650 calorie goal this month.

in summary, even though your sedentary BMR has dropped about 60 calories, i'd like to see you shoot for the same daily calorie goal that we had last month (1650). you can eat less than that amount if you're meeting your fats goal (70g-75g) and your protein goal (130g) and are not hungry. however, certainly stay above 1400-1450 calories in that scenario.

try to get in the same amount of cardio, but if the injury leaves you unable to, don't worry... you're still going to lose at least another 5-6lbs on the month.

BrainyBurro

one more thing (very important) - take some photos of yourself now. when you've lost all your weight, you'll regret not having "before" photos. these might be embarrassing to take, but take them anyway. you'll want front, side, and back full body views in clothes that allow you to see your body. take a look at the many Success Story forum threads to see what people generally do when taking "before" photos. see what sorts of clothes they wear. not only will these photos come in handy for the day you want to write your own success story, but also, they will allow you to see body changes more easily than if you didn't take photos. because your body is changing in small amounts each day, it's easy to not notice these changes as you stare at yourself in the mirror every day... but when you compare to "before", you'll see the changes much more distinctly.

ItsTimeCharlie

Your likely right on the cardio because I'm only using the search engine, I'm not totally sure burned cals are correct but I'm sure it will get better as I take in all this info

Sweet, now that I'm home I'm going to try relaxing but will swim at the moment just to keep some type of momentum...I will walk as I can.

I took photos and found my first photos that I took when I first decided to go for gold ha.

I'm feeling a lot more on track with my weight than I ever have, so I'm really looking forward to getting my head in the game again. This weekend was my partners cousins wedding, we went to Melbourne for 4 days, I ate pizza, tacos, churros, rosti's, salads, bakery bread, cheese, sushi, you name it, I had it!

Not only did I struggle with it, I wasted a lot of food which is something I avoid these days and I even vomitted from not being used to eating that way anymore. Admittedly it was fun to be able to try some new foods and remember some old ones, but tbh, I don't want to be like that. I like where I feel like I'm heading. So man up and back to it!

ItsTimeCharlie

This month I tore the ligaments in my ankle due to an unexpected injury while out of town. Its been really hard to rest it to be honest, I'm dying to go back to aerobic activity. I have been swimming and walking where ever my ankle will allow it and anywhere else, I have been resting it. Some days are better than others.

I lost 8.5lbs regardless this month and this has made me even more determined to make this happen. I have only ever lost 10kg at any given time dieting. But this time its a lifestyle change, I want my life back and I'm totally on the go with this!

I have even taken measurements this time around because I'm now excited to see where I'm loosing a little more specifically

I am now 253.5 in weight and although this month I felt a bit up and down emotionally with both eating and being restricted in what I can do, I have realised that its not the end of my world.

I have started to buy new clothes to accommodate the changes. Thats a nice feeling no matter how big or small the change ...*feeling humbled BB
:flowerforyou:

BrainyBurro

I'm ready to drop in calories so how best do I do that.

here's what i would do... add up all your cardio exercise burns for the last 2 months and then divide that number by 61. be careful to only include real exercise cardio burns... your walks, swims, etc. that sort of stuff. this will give you your CURRENT exercise burns per day.

then calculate your new BMR based on your new weight.

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/

multiply the BMR by 1.2 from the harris-benedict equation. add your current average calorie burn. this will give you a good approximation of your TDEE right now. then subtract 1000 from that. that's your new calorie goal with the expectation of losing 2lbs per week. that's your new calorie goal and that's what you should limit yourself to eating. if you can then become more active and do more cardio this month, you'll lose more and/or eat more if you eat back some additional calories... but for now, if you just stay as active with exercise as you are now, this puts you on pace for 2lbs/week.

then to sanity check your number, see how it compares to the calorie goal you have been using and see if the new number is a daily goal you can live with. if not, then you either scale back your loss rate expectations or make sure to do more exercise (walking is enough).