SilentDrapeRunners Log

SilentDrapeRunners

Decided I would post a log so I can update my progress (and others can offer tips and advice!). First two pictures were taken almost a year ago. I weighed around 99-100 lbs. Next three pictures were taken today, and I currently weigh ~105 pounds. My height is 5'4".

I started bulking a couple months ago, and that was when I really grasped the concept of how much I have to eat in order to put on muscle. Prior to that, I was very conservative and really didn't increase my calories past 1700 or so. My hope was to put on muscle and avoid putting on fat, but as you can see, that didn't work out so well since my body composition hasn't changed much in the past year. I think I've made the most progress just in these past couple months, in terms of putting on muscle. But unfortunately and inevitably I've also put on fat (my thighs are really fat now!).

I think I'm going to bulk until the end of this month (calories are currently at 2100). End of march will be about a 3 month bulk which I think is good for me, since bulking has been much harder than I ever imagined. After bulking, I plan on doing a week at maintenance, and then cutting. No idea how long I should cut for. I would like to maintain the muscle I have, but also lose some body fat and get more lean. Any suggestions? Feel free to be critical...I'm sure you won't be more critical than I am of myself

HMVOL7409

Welcome! I know it's been mentally hard for you but you're doing great!

As far as your plan; my honest opinion would be to not cut. You don't have anything to cut and really shouldn't be at a lower weight than you are now. This would be a case where I would suggest a longer bulk but I am pretty sure your mind is made up to end it and that's fine. What I suggest next is to take the rest of the year and really focus on eating at maintenance not a deficit and smash the heavy lifting. Put everything you got into your lifting and I think you'll like what you see in 6-9 mths. Recomps are a slow process but they do work. Bulking is the quickest way to add on muscle hands down but I know it's mentally taxing.

I think you need to be realistic about your calorie goals and be honest about where your maintenance level is. I would have to disagree with 90% of the active females on here that lift, run etc that say they maintain at less than 1800 calories. I know numbers are scary but women can and are able to eat more. When your body is fueled properly and enough, it will work for you. Your workouts will become better, you'll be less injury prone and you'll recover faster. Your body will change.

You can do this girl!

SilentDrapeRunners

Welcome! I know it's been mentally hard for you but you're doing great!

As far as your plan; my honest opinion would be to not cut. You don't have anything to cut and really shouldn't be at a lower weight than you are now. This would be a case where I would suggest a longer bulk but I am pretty sure your mind is made up to end it and that's fine. What I suggest next is to take the rest of the year and really focus on eating at maintenance not a deficit and smash the heavy lifting. Put everything you got into your lifting and I think you'll like what you see in 6-9 mths. Recomps are a slow process but they do work. Bulking is the quickest way to add on muscle hands down but I know it's mentally taxing.

I think you need to be realistic about your calorie goals and be honest about where your maintenance level is. I would have to disagree with 90% of the active females on here that lift, run etc that say they maintain at less than 1800 calories. I know numbers are scary but women can and are able to eat more. When your body is fueled properly and enough, it will work for you. Your workouts will become better, you'll be less injury prone and you'll recover faster. Your body will change.

You can do this girl!

Thanks so much for the support and advice! My mind isn't completely made up...I'm kind of taking it a day at a time. I can see your point about continuing bulking. Although, even though my weight is low, my BF% really isn't that low....and I really would like to get around 15% BF (not even sure if that is possible), because I'm tired of being skinny fat. But I do know that bulking will help in taking away the skinny fat look. That's why I was thinking a short bulk (3 months) followed by a short cut (1 month) (and then repeat that cycle) might be a good thing to try. What do you think? I'm hesitant to try just eating at maintenance, because that's kind of what I was doing for the past year (although I do agree that my maintenance could have been higher- like around 1900).

sarahstrezo

Welcome! I know it's been mentally hard for you but you're doing great!

As far as your plan; my honest opinion would be to not cut. You don't have anything to cut and really shouldn't be at a lower weight than you are now. This would be a case where I would suggest a longer bulk but I am pretty sure your mind is made up to end it and that's fine. What I suggest next is to take the rest of the year and really focus on eating at maintenance not a deficit and smash the heavy lifting. Put everything you got into your lifting and I think you'll like what you see in 6-9 mths. Recomps are a slow process but they do work. Bulking is the quickest way to add on muscle hands down but I know it's mentally taxing.

I think you need to be realistic about your calorie goals and be honest about where your maintenance level is. I would have to disagree with 90% of the active females on here that lift, run etc that say they maintain at less than 1800 calories. I know numbers are scary but women can and are able to eat more. When your body is fueled properly and enough, it will work for you. Your workouts will become better, you'll be less injury prone and you'll recover faster. Your body will change.

You can do this girl!

I could not agree with this post more!
Everyone can work towards the body that THEY want. That being said….IMO, you should not cut. I think you look SOOOO much better in the second pic. More healthy, more fit and more strong. NOT more fat. I don't see the fat/big thighs you see.
My opinion is that if you decide to cut, you won't be happy in the end. I think you'll be spinning your wheels and end up feeling like you get nowhere in the end.

I'd also suggest committing to a 9-12 month recomp. Eat at at least maintenance (definitely not a cut) and lift HEAVY!

SilentDrapeRunners

Welcome! I know it's been mentally hard for you but you're doing great!

As far as your plan; my honest opinion would be to not cut. You don't have anything to cut and really shouldn't be at a lower weight than you are now. This would be a case where I would suggest a longer bulk but I am pretty sure your mind is made up to end it and that's fine. What I suggest next is to take the rest of the year and really focus on eating at maintenance not a deficit and smash the heavy lifting. Put everything you got into your lifting and I think you'll like what you see in 6-9 mths. Recomps are a slow process but they do work. Bulking is the quickest way to add on muscle hands down but I know it's mentally taxing.

I think you need to be realistic about your calorie goals and be honest about where your maintenance level is. I would have to disagree with 90% of the active females on here that lift, run etc that say they maintain at less than 1800 calories. I know numbers are scary but women can and are able to eat more. When your body is fueled properly and enough, it will work for you. Your workouts will become better, you'll be less injury prone and you'll recover faster. Your body will change.

You can do this girl!

I could not agree with this post more!
Everyone can work towards the body that THEY want. That being said….IMO, you should not cut. I think you look SOOOO much better in the second pic. More healthy, more fit and more strong. NOT more fat. I don't see the fat/big thighs you see.
My opinion is that if you decide to cut, you won't be happy in the end. I think you'll be spinning your wheels and end up feeling like you get nowhere in the end.

I'd also suggest committing to a 9-12 month recomp. Eat at at least maintenance (definitely not a cut) and lift HEAVY!

Thanks for the input, I really appreciate it! Just to clarify (since everyone has slightly different definitions of things) is a recomp just eating at maintenance in the hopes you can put on muscle while gaining minimal fat (I know some amount of fat gain is inevitable). My concern with doing that (staying at maintenance), is that I'll just continue spinning my wheels, but maybe not.

HMVOL7409

What was your lifting like in that last year and what are you doing now? What kind and how much cardio have you've been doing? Have you just hit your calories in the last year or have you paid attention to macros?

SilentDrapeRunners

What was your lifting like in that last year and what are you doing now? What kind and how much cardio have you've been doing? Have you just hit your calories in the last year or have you paid attention to macros?

I became more serious about lifting in June 2013. That's when I started Mike Matthew's Thinner, Leaner, Stronger program. He emphasizes all the basic, important exercises (bench press, deadlift, squats, etc). But he advocates a 'one body part per week' program (I know that some people say an upper/lower body split type program is better). My current routine is :

Sun: Chest & abs
Mon: Back
Tues: Shoulders & abs
Weds: Arms
Thurs: Legs
Fri: Rest
Sat: Cardio (20-30 min HIIT recumbent bike)

The amount of cardio I've done over the past year has been really variable. I have consistently stuck with the HIIT workouts, but I've tried anywhere from once a week (what I'm currently doing) up to 4 times a week.

So my weightlifting program hasn't changed much in the past year, although I have stepped up the intensity. When I started last June, I could bench press 20 pounds, and now I can do 5 reps at 40 pounds (I know, not very remarkable, but it is a small amount of progress I think.)

In the past year I've been careful and dedicated about hitting my calories as well as macros. I know for sure that I'm getting enough protein, since I've tried to not go under ~120 g (which I'm pretty sure is more than enough for my body weight).

maruby95

I agree. DON'T plan on cutting. Stick with a slow bulk followed by maintenance for a while. My stats were almost identical to your when I started my cut in Oct. 5'3.5" 104-105 lbs, 17-18% BF, maintainting on about 1700 cals. Part of the reason I wanted to bulk in the first place was b/c I knew I didn't have enough LBM to support a lower BF. I just couldn't lean out anymore without seriously compromising my health. I, too, hadn't had a period in quite a while.

I bulked my way up to about 112 lbs in the end (that's all I could stand) and then did my cut for about 2 months. Now I'm sitting about 107-108, 17% ish, and the same measurements as before my bulk. Oh, and more strength . But I know I still need more LBM. And I think after my cut, I look 'skinny' again . Wish I had had the self control to keep a few more pounds on.

So now, rather than start another bulk, which for me sort of triggered that reactive cut, I will work on eating at FULL maintenance and lifting heavy (by which I mean using maintenance number as a minimum and erring on the side of more vs less). I'm aiming to get to a place where I can maintain at 2000 which I think is realistic. But that will mean not stopping at my 'old' maintencance of 1700-1800.

Also- you said that your BF isn't that low and you would like it to go lower. DON'T do it. It's too low as it is- as evidenced by your messed up menstral cycle. A bit more BF over some nice muscles will make you look and feel much better than dropping to an unsustainable 15%BF.

sarahstrezo

Yep…a very clear blaring warning that you are at too low a body fat % is that you stop having a period. It's not good at all and in fact will likely lead to early onset osteoporosis….which all this weight training is supposed to guard agains. But it won't if you have your hormones screwed up by being too lean.

There's a personal trainer at my gym who is crazy lean. I know she does some fitness modeling and I think maybe even competes in Bodybuilding. Anyway, I overheard her having a conversation in the locker room the other day….she was telling a woman that she's 22 years old and hasn't had a period since she was 19. She said, "it's because I train so hard". I just wanted to shake her and say, "NO…it's because you aren't eating enough!!!" The poor girl is going to hurt herself in the long run all for the sake of extreme leanness now.

SilentDrapeRunners

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming! Did I say somewhere that my periods are messed up (if I did, then I didn't mean to). To clarify, my menstrual cycles are normal- I have a period every month. So that's not an issue, luckily. Just curious, what do you think my body fat % is? I have calipers, but I really question their accuracy.

I do think that maybe the best plan is to do 2-3 more weeks of bulking and then switch to maintenance (instead of a drastic cut). I really like the muscle I've finally been able to put on these past couple months by eating more, but I'm not sure I can bulk for more than another few weeks. So if I switched to maintenance for a month or so and then switched back to bulking for a couple months, would that be a good thing to do? It's definitely a work in progress, but I think I've ruled out a drastic cut at this point is a no-go. Thanks guys!

HMVOL7409

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming! Did I say somewhere that my periods are messed up (if I did, then I didn't mean to). To clarify, my menstrual cycles are normal- I have a period every month. So that's not an issue, luckily. Just curious, what do you think my body fat % is? I have calipers, but I really question their accuracy.

I do think that maybe the best plan is to do 2-3 more weeks of bulking and then switch to maintenance (instead of a drastic cut). I really like the muscle I've finally been able to put on these past couple months by eating more, but I'm not sure I can bulk for more than another few weeks. So if I switched to maintenance for a month or so and then switched back to bulking for a couple months, would that be a good thing to do? It's definitely a work in progress, but I think I've ruled out a drastic cut at this point is a no-go. Thanks guys!

I actually love this idea.

It's hard to tell BF, so I can't really gauge. I've seen so many different levels on different body types that it's not easy to narrow down as some think. Callipers can be very accurate depending on the tester and their skill. Plus the more points, the better. If you're doing them yourself, not very accurate it's safe to say. In the end, it really doesn't matter. Sure it's a goal to have I guess, but it's yet another number to not be defined by.

maruby95

So sorry about the period confusion! Looks like I started that misinformation. It's possible I was confusing you with another post I had read. Anyway, glad it's all good for you .

ferocityturbine

I know how you feel OP. I'm skinny-fat too and want to reduce my body fat but really don't have enough LBM to support a lower BF% as I drop into being underweight.

It's difficult getting your head around the idea of a bulk when you consider your BF% too high to really want to increase it further. I've been umming and ahhing between cutting my BF further where I know I can put on a decent amount of weight to make a bulk worhtwhile, but that would mean putting my self in the underweight category, or by bulking from here and dealing with the fact that I'm really not going to be comfortable with the extra fat that it will require to add some healthy LBM.

I too want to give you the healthy advice, which makes me realise I should be giving it to myself! Think how good it will feel to bring your LBM up to a point where you can have the BF% you're happy with while maintaining a healthy weight!

Also, :flowerforyou: for Twin Peaks reference

sarahstrezo

You have to remember that when you increase your LBM at the same time you increase your fat mass….your total body fat % doesn't increase that much. Because your body fat % is just that…a percentage of the total. So…because the overall total is going up, the percentage doesn't increase at such a drastic rate.

For example…over this bulk, I've put on about 11 lbs. About 6 of that is LBM and about 5 of that is fat. Even though I put on 5 lbs of fat…my overall body fat % only increased about 1.5%

SilentDrapeRunners

You have to remember that when you increase your LBM at the same time you increase your fat mass….your total body fat % doesn't increase that much. Because your body fat % is just that…a percentage of the total. So…because the overall total is going up, the percentage doesn't increase at such a drastic rate.

For example…over this bulk, I've put on about 11 lbs. About 6 of that is LBM and about 5 of that is fat. Even though I put on 5 lbs of fat…my overall body fat % only increased about 1.5%

Good point...I think that's true for me. I'm putting on weight (approaching 106 lbs., woohoo!), but I don't think my BF% is increasing as drastically as I feared it would. So that's good. So for now, I'm just going to remain at 2100 calories. I also upped my fat macro and decreased (not drastically) my carbs. That's really helped for me, because I seem to be really sensitive to too many carbs (especially high GI). A couple years ago I had an oral glucose tolerance test done because I thought for sure I had some degree of insulin resistance, but the test came out normal.

So how much cardio should I be doing per week? Right now I'm just doing one 20 min. HIIT session per week. I'm inclined to think that maybe 2-3 sessions a week wouldn't be a bad idea (especially if I increase my calories a little more).

Also, I know focusing on numbers (like BF%) isn't really important, but for me, making progress quantitatively is important. Thanks to you guys, I found out that when gaining muscle correctly I should be gaining about 1/2 lb per week. I didn't know that before, so I just kind of gauged progress by how I felt (if I felt like I was getting fat, I wouldn't increase calories or worse, I would decrease). Numbers keep me moving in the right direction. It's the same with eating- if I didn't keep track of what I ate and just went off of appetite I would definitely not be meeting my calorie (and protein) requirements (although I am getting to the point where I could probably closely estimate what I need to eat without actually tracking it).

HMVOL7409

I'm a fan of no cardio or as little as possible during a bulk. If one has difficulty eating more or increasing calories, adding in more cardio is not going to help as it creates a larger deficit. Just bc you increase your calories doesn't mean increase your activity; you want to gain here.

SilentDrapeRunners

So I emailed my 'personal trainer' (not really my personal trainer, but the closest thing I'll get to a personal trainer at least while I'm making a meager salary and debt-ridden). Anyway, he's Mike Matthews- I've been doing his program for almost a year now and he's helped me out along the way- he responds to any and all emails. So I emailed him the same pics I posted above and asked him what he thought about my progress and where I should go from here. He said I could either focus on building muscle OR I could cut if I want to get really lean for spring/summer. So now I'm really conflicted.

If I'm completely honest with myself, I think I would really want to get more lean. But if I'm honest about what would be best in terms of the long run or my health, I think continuing to put on muscle would be the best thing to do. I know he and all of you mean well and have the knowledge and experience, so I'm really grateful for that. But it makes it difficult to decide what to do. Frustrated. For now, I'll continue my maintenance/slight bulk, but knowing that a professional has given the 'ok' to do a cut will make it difficult NOT to do a cut (if that makes sense).

__freckles__

So I emailed my 'personal trainer' (not really my personal trainer, but the closest thing I'll get to a personal trainer at least while I'm making a meager salary and debt-ridden). Anyway, he's Mike Matthews- I've been doing his program for almost a year now and he's helped me out along the way- he responds to any and all emails. So I emailed him the same pics I posted above and asked him what he thought about my progress and where I should go from here. He said I could either focus on building muscle OR I could cut if I want to get really lean for spring/summer. So now I'm really conflicted.

If I'm completely honest with myself, I think I would really want to get more lean. But if I'm honest about what would be best in terms of the long run or my health, I think continuing to put on muscle would be the best thing to do. I know he and all of you mean well and have the knowledge and experience, so I'm really grateful for that. But it makes it difficult to decide what to do. Frustrated. For now, I'll continue my maintenance/slight bulk, but knowing that a professional has given the 'ok' to do a cut will make it difficult NOT to do a cut (if that makes sense).

Are you worried about looking lean for summer? Because that's what I worry about in terms of cutting my bulk short. But ultimately I keep coming back to the fact that I really want to change my body composition. So that probably means that for this bulk to be successful, I'm going to have to bulk until the end of May at least, which doesn't give me any time to cut before summer. BUT does it really matter if I look fluffy for this one summer if the other option is building strong, sexy muscle? I can always strut my stuff on the sand next year. Anyways, I guess my point is you can always get more lean. What you need to decide now is whether or not you've built enough muscle and can be happy ending your bulk.

SilentDrapeRunners

So I emailed my 'personal trainer' (not really my personal trainer, but the closest thing I'll get to a personal trainer at least while I'm making a meager salary and debt-ridden). Anyway, he's Mike Matthews- I've been doing his program for almost a year now and he's helped me out along the way- he responds to any and all emails. So I emailed him the same pics I posted above and asked him what he thought about my progress and where I should go from here. He said I could either focus on building muscle OR I could cut if I want to get really lean for spring/summer. So now I'm really conflicted.

If I'm completely honest with myself, I think I would really want to get more lean. But if I'm honest about what would be best in terms of the long run or my health, I think continuing to put on muscle would be the best thing to do. I know he and all of you mean well and have the knowledge and experience, so I'm really grateful for that. But it makes it difficult to decide what to do. Frustrated. For now, I'll continue my maintenance/slight bulk, but knowing that a professional has given the 'ok' to do a cut will make it difficult NOT to do a cut (if that makes sense).

Are you worried about looking lean for summer? Because that's what I worry about in terms of cutting my bulk short. But ultimately I keep coming back to the fact that I really want to change my body composition. So that probably means that for this bulk to be successful, I'm going to have to bulk until the end of May at least, which doesn't give me any time to cut before summer. BUT does it really matter if I look fluffy for this one summer if the other option is building strong, sexy muscle? I can always strut my stuff on the sand next year. Anyways, I guess my point is you can always get more lean. What you need to decide now is whether or not you've built enough muscle and can be happy ending your bulk.

I don't really have any important events or deadlines to meet. I guess my mind just has a tendency to revert back to autopilot mode/mindset which is 'gotta get more lean!' Especially since I've been working towards this for almost a couple years now. But I know I've made progress. And I think the best way to make more progress is to continue maintaining/bulking. That's a good point that I can always get more lean. But I guess I do worry about bulking so much that it'll be difficult to get lean later. But honestly I think the way I'm doing it (bulking veerrrry slowly), won't result in me getting too squishy.

HMVOL7409

And this is exactly why I choose not to hire a coach or trainer. If I do I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be via the internet. No offense, but many claim to be professionals but many don't look at the whole picture with the client in mind. Unless this man is providing nutritional breakdown with macros and training specific to your goals and body, your personal interest and health is not of the upmost importance to him. Sorry, harsh reality.

Of course you can be more lean if you choose, but at what sacrifice are you willing to make in order for appearance? Is being lean more important than being at a healthy mindset and bodyweight? Does being lean hold more value over working to be strong and build muscle?

It comes down to are you doing this for health and life or does looking good for the summer hold more importance?

sarahstrezo

And this is exactly why I choose not to hire a coach or trainer. If I do I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be via the internet. No offense, but many claim to be professionals but many don't look at the whole picture with the client in mind. Unless this man is providing nutritional breakdown with macros and training specific to your goals and body, your personal interest and health is not of the upmost importance to him. Sorry, harsh reality.

Of course you can be more lean if you choose, but at what sacrifice are you willing to make in order for appearance? Is being lean more important than being at a healthy mindset and bodyweight? Does being lean hold more value over working to be strong and build muscle?

It comes down to are you doing this for health and life or does looking good for the summer hold more importance?

^^^ ditto!
Just because this guy is a "professional" doesn't mean he's correct or knows what's in your best interest.