Macro Troubleshooting
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I'm having trouble getting the fat percentage high enough without busting over my calories. I originally tried to stay around 1500 cals, but was getting too much protein. Now I've increased my fat percentage to try and break a plateau, but it's increasing the calories. I'm going to leave it the way it is for now as I'm still under my base metabolic rate. If it works, I won't cry over it. I just feel weird eating higher calories. It's a battle of metrics vs bulk -- my stomach is still stretched from overeating so much in the past and it feels somewhat hollow to eat so little for meals sometimes. I should adjust, but it's uncomfortable for now. Go water! lol0
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Skoster1, I don't know that it's 1g per pound. It is closer to a MAX of 0.9g per pound. It's more like 0.6g a pound recommended. So between 83g and 124g a day is more appropriate for you. Also, keep in mind that the higher amounts are intended for people who are really athletic and pushing themselves. If you're not exercising a lot, you probably would be better off sticking to the lower end of the scale.
Do you have a source for that?
Reddit's ketogain FAQ lists:
Sedentary people: 0.8g per lean pound
Mildly active or doing endurance / strength training: 0.8 to 1.0g per lean pound
Heavy strength training / bodybuilders: 1.0 up to 1.2g per lean pound
I'm currently doing 2 days per week of 5 sets of 5 reps @ 5RM and I just started 3 days per week of running (C25K). I guess I could drop down to .8, but from everything I've read I should not at all drop below .8g/lb LBM, and to have enough protein to feed the muscles I should be around 1g/lb LBM.0 -
Protein sources off the top of my head.
http://aaron.emascc.com/diet/ebooks/Lyle_McDonald_-_The_Ketogenic_Diet.pdf [Starting on page 106] In particular, tables 2 and 3 along with the discussion between them.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1v148f/keto_calculator_update_lowered_upper_protein_level/ [Where the author of the keto calculator goes into detail as to why he lowered the recommendations for protein... the discussion below is interesting. He later upped the values slightly due to some people complaining, but the max he currently has is 1g/lb].
Each of those also has links to other studies and sites (the keto-calculator itself has links to books and stuff right above the protein selection boxes if you expand it).
I suspect the 1.2 g/lb recommendation was probably set from the old keto calculator goals. It was what he had for a long time, until he lowered it about 3 months ago. Ketogains also gets into a lot of very specific things that may or may not apply to your level of performance (CKD or TKD). The super-high protein might be one of those things that only applies to the highest end of their base of subscribers (although I suspect it's a remnant more than anything else).0 -
Protein sources off the top of my head.
http://aaron.emascc.com/diet/ebooks/Lyle_McDonald_-_The_Ketogenic_Diet.pdf [Starting on page 106] In particular, tables 2 and 3 along with the discussion between them.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
http://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1v148f/keto_calculator_update_lowered_upper_protein_level/ [Where the author of the keto calculator goes into detail as to why he lowered the recommendations for protein... the discussion below is interesting. He later upped the values slightly due to some people complaining, but the max he currently has is 1g/lb].
Each of those also has links to other studies and sites (the keto-calculator itself has links to books and stuff right above the protein selection boxes if you expand it).
I suspect the 1.2 g/lb recommendation was probably set from the old keto calculator goals. It was what he had for a long time, until he lowered it about 3 months ago. Ketogains also gets into a lot of very specific things that may or may not apply to your level of performance (CKD or TKD). The super-high protein might be one of those things that only applies to the highest end of their base of subscribers (although I suspect it's a remnant more than anything else).
Much appreciated, I'll work through those!0 -
No worries. I will also state that the first link supports the 1 g/lb a day level. I included it because I am all about transparency. If I know of a resource, even if it contradicts my current opinion, I'm not going to hide it. In the discussion between the two tables, though, the author says to start with 1 g/lb per pound but then subtract a certain number of grams based on how many grams of carbs you also consume. So, you end up with slightly less than 1 g/lb... but not a whole lot less.
If you read that whole chapter, as well as the other chapters about protein and muscle loss, you'll find that Lyle McDonald tends to be pretty conservative on his recommendations (in the sense that he'd more likely encourage people to stay towards the higher end of the spectrum than the lower end) for protein.
There are more resources out there. Those are just the ones I was able to recall and google quickly this morning. There's a significant amount of debate as to appropriate levels required. I don't know that I can confidently say you're doing anything wrong by eating 1 g/lb a day. If your body reacts well to that amount, who am I to say change it. Personally, I'm all over the place when it comes to the consumption with little recognizable impact. I'll probably post in a couple weeks to reflect on whether or not keeping protein intentionally low (1.3 g/kg -- 0.6 g/lb) shows any significant improvement in my experience.0 -
Hmm, I'm well to the top of that range, depending on the day, and I never get kicked out. I doubt I have super genes! ;-)
Do you test with blood strips?
No, though I read that false negatives on Kettostix are quite rare outside of highly concentrated urine, drug and chemical interactions:
http://www.aacc.org/members/nacb/LMPG/OnlineGuide/PublishedGuidelines/diabetes_update/Documents/Chapter 8.pdf
http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=Uu7BtlkzUSYC&pg=PA390&lpg=PA390&dq=how+common+are+false+positive+urine+ketones&source=bl&ots=dLOCXNEBx4&sig=xSgm0oLs9bEqT5tkM386J9V2KkM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=D59NU9ehJ4Wi8AWJk4GIDg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=how common are false positive urine ketones&f=false
Now I'm concerned, though.
The problem is to support my estimated ~138 lbs LBM (198lbs and estimated 30% body fat) with 1 gm/lb LBM I need 138g protein. My understanding is that if I'm weight training I need to hit that 1 gm/lb LBM or higher.
Do you have a source citation for the 120 - 140g protein numbers I can read, by any chance?
Its usually the number which Drs like Phinny, Volek and others talk about in their books or talks as guideline. Now it also depends on how much you exercise and when you consume the protein. You should get a meter and do n=1 experiment, you don't need to test every day. I follow the rule of 1g of protein for 1 Kg of weight, it works great for me. I get tested by a guy who trains pro athletes and he personally thinks people consume way more protein then they should. Like I said, just figure it out yourself, these numbers are guidelines and you need to figure out where you fit.0 -
Hmm, I'm well to the top of that range, depending on the day, and I never get kicked out. I doubt I have super genes! ;-)
Do you test with blood strips?
No, though I read that false negatives on Kettostix are quite rare outside of highly concentrated urine, drug and chemical interactions:
http://www.aacc.org/members/nacb/LMPG/OnlineGuide/PublishedGuidelines/diabetes_update/Documents/Chapter 8.pdf
http://books.google.co.jp/books?id=Uu7BtlkzUSYC&pg=PA390&lpg=PA390&dq=how+common+are+false+positive+urine+ketones&source=bl&ots=dLOCXNEBx4&sig=xSgm0oLs9bEqT5tkM386J9V2KkM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=D59NU9ehJ4Wi8AWJk4GIDg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=how common are false positive urine ketones&f=false
Now I'm concerned, though.
The problem is to support my estimated ~138 lbs LBM (198lbs and estimated 30% body fat) with 1 gm/lb LBM I need 138g protein. My understanding is that if I'm weight training I need to hit that 1 gm/lb LBM or higher.
Do you have a source citation for the 120 - 140g protein numbers I can read, by any chance?
Its usually the number which Drs like Phinny, Volek and others talk about in their books or talks as guideline. Now it also depends on how much you exercise and when you consume the protein. You should get a meter and do n=1 experiment, you don't need to test every day. I follow the rule of 1g of protein for 1 Kg of weight, it works great for me. I get tested by a guy who trains pro athletes and he personally thinks people consume way more protein then they should. Like I said, just figure it out yourself, these numbers are guidelines and you need to figure out where you fit.
Thanks, I have the meter but I'm waiting on test strips. Unfortunately things can sometimes take a long time to get to my APO box over here, and apparently ketone test strips are one of those things.
I'm virtually positive I wasn't out of ketosis on mid to upper 130s since I was still popping awake after 6-7 hours of sleep (without keto I'm a horrible morning person regardless of how long I sleep), focused at work, peeing like a racehorse, and interested in exercise.0 -
I never reach my fat goal. Always hard to find stuff to eat to meet that macro. Just worry about meeting my protein and carb goals daily.0
