Help please?

lliena83

Hi joined the group as I like the idea behind it and I would like some help if possible, I'm in the uk and over the past 18months have lost 56lb through dieting(slimming world) and gym mainly cardio and machines. However over the past 10-12 weeks I've started lifting weights at the gym and I've quit the slimming world and started tracking cals I'm eating anywhere from 1800-2000 a day but I'm not seeing any scale loss. I've lost body fat and inches but I would like to see the scales move again too if that's possible. I'm 5'10 and 209lb and would like to lose another 28lb. I workout 3/4times a week lifting for an hr/hr half with 20mins cardio after each session plus a 45 min spin class once a week. Is it possible I need to eat more to lose weight or not? On fat2fit radio my bmr is 1843 as I have an idea of my body fat as my PT at the gym measures it, I'm just a bit confused by tdee/bmr etc and not sure if I'm fuelling my body enough for what I'm doing which is why I'm not losing?

lliena83

My body fat according to my pt is 28% down from 33% in the past 10-12 weeks I knwo there can be an error of margin using calipers but she seems to know what she is doing and measures 3 separate sites each time.

lliena83

Ah sorry for talking to myself here but Ive been doing some more reading and found scoobys website site and calculated my BMR 1741 and TDEE 2699 and at a 15% cut that gives me 2287 cals a day with 172p 229c 76f does this sound good? That's a big jump in carbs from what I was eating, scary!

Jennbecca33

Hi lliena83! Welcome...so glad you found your way here! Congratulations on your weight loss so far - that is a wonderful accomplishment! We do recommend using the Scooby website to calculate your TDEE numbers, so good job on finding that information. Those numbers look correct based on your activity. Keep in mind with weight lifting, you will see inches and fat go down, but sometimes the scale does not always reflect that right away. So as long as your body fat is decreasing and you are losing inches, you are doing great...try not to mentally get too caught up on the scale moving down...it will catch up. Now with that being said, it does look as though you have been under eating a bit. You should increase your calories up to that 15% cut number and that will give you a more reasonable deficit. You could see some scale fluctuations when adding back in some of those carbs if you have been eating lower carbs, but that will level out - carbs are important for energy and you'll feel better in your workouts with your increased calories. Just keep your macros at 40 carbs, 30 protein, 30 fat - the most important one to reach is protein.

Also feel free to check out the main EM2WL forums at www.em2wl.com for additional support and guidance through the process. There's a great group of ladies and team members there who are happy to help you along the way! You can add me here on MFP too! Great job!

mymodernbabylon

Hi and welcome. Jennbecca33 is fabulous as support & she knows what she's doing!

lliena83

Hi lliena83! Welcome...so glad you found your way here! Congratulations on your weight loss so far - that is a wonderful accomplishment! We do recommend using the Scooby website to calculate your TDEE numbers, so good job on finding that information. Those numbers look correct based on your activity. Keep in mind with weight lifting, you will see inches and fat go down, but sometimes the scale does not always reflect that right away. So as long as your body fat is decreasing and you are losing inches, you are doing great...try not to mentally get too caught up on the scale moving down...it will catch up. Now with that being said, it does look as though you have been under eating a bit. You should increase your calories up to that 15% cut number and that will give you a more reasonable deficit. You could see some scale fluctuations when adding back in some of those carbs if you have been eating lower carbs, but that will level out - carbs are important for energy and you'll feel better in your workouts with your increased calories. Just keep your macros at 40 carbs, 30 protein, 30 fat - the most important one to reach is protein.

Also feel free to check out the main EM2WL forums at www.em2wl.com for additional support and guidance through the process. There's a great group of ladies and team members there who are happy to help you along the way! You can add me here on MFP too! Great job!

Thank you! I found the forum earlier and posted over there too, I've spent all day reading hahahha, I,m curious about doing a reset and I think that I might want to try that and see what happens, which would mean eating 2699 cals for a while and then cut down to my 15% off? Would that be ok do you think or do I not need to?

Jennbecca33

If you wanted to do a reset, it certainly wouldn't hurt...it would give you a break from dieting since you have been going at it for awhile. We usually recommend resets for people who have been low calorie dieting for a long time or dieting without a break for a long time and they are at a stand still not seeing any results. It doesn't seem like you were drastically cutting your calories way too low and you are still seeing results - fat loss and inches -, so you probably don't require one...but again, if you mentally just need the break and you don't mind taking a timeout from fat loss, then go for it! The other thing you could do is just start increasing your calories and see how your body reacts. When you get to TDEE, stay there for a few weeks or however long you want to...just to give yourself a break. A full reset is 8-12 weeks eating at TDEE - so maybe you just wouldn't do it for the full time unless you just wanted to. EM2WL recommends people to take diet breaks every 8 to 12 weeks or so and eat at TDEE for a week anyway, just to remind the body of what the full TDEE is - then go back to the 15% cut for fat loss. That's not considered a reset, but recommended for everyone who is in fat loss mode. The main thing you want to look for is that your weight should stabilize at your TDEE calorie level - outside of normal fluctuations. So if you are still losing at TDEE, then you haven't actually reached your TDEE yet. If you slowly are consistently gaining over several weeks, then you've surpassed your TDEE and then you can back off a little. The calculators are good estimates, but it takes a little tweaking on your part to figure out your true TDEE. But it's a great number to aim for!

lliena83

Thank you, ive had a think and decided to go for the -15% number for now so will see how I get on and keep you all updated on my progress

heybales

Hi joined the group as I like the idea behind it and I would like some help if possible, I'm in the uk and over the past 18months have lost 56lb through dieting(slimming world) and gym mainly cardio and machines. However over the past 10-12 weeks I've started lifting weights at the gym and I've quit the slimming world and started tracking cals I'm eating anywhere from 1800-2000 a day but I'm not seeing any scale loss. I've lost body fat and inches but I would like to see the scales move again too if that's possible. I'm 5'10 and 209lb and would like to lose another 28lb. I workout 3/4times a week lifting for an hr/hr half with 20mins cardio after each session plus a 45 min spin class once a week. Is it possible I need to eat more to lose weight or not? On fat2fit radio my bmr is 1843 as I have an idea of my body fat as my PT at the gym measures it, I'm just a bit confused by tdee/bmr etc and not sure if I'm fuelling my body enough for what I'm doing which is why I'm not losing?

Just curious - how accurate do you think that 1800-2000 was for last 10-12 weeks?
Like, did you weigh all food, only measure liquids?
Weigh packaging contents and divide by serving size in weight, not taking the "about 2 servings" estimate?

I ask, because with a little inaccuracy, you easily could have been eating at estimated TDEE already. Which would explain no loss in weight.

And I think that is evidenced by the fact you lost fat, by fact you lost inches, but your body was unstressed enough to balance that out with improvements from the workout, or weight gain, obviously some water weight, but some muscle mass too. That could be a couple pounds.
You were not new to strength training having done machines before, so not like you were getting the big newbie gains others might get, but that means existing muscle was tapped out probably, so you started that 10-12 weeks with good progressive overload already.

Try the scooby link again, but look for the link for Most Accurate - it let's you use Katch BMR method with bodyfat % estimate for better BMR estimate, then take same TDEE level guess.

I'm betting though you think it was eating 1800-2000 inaccurately logged calories, it was actually more.

And so to actually lose weight, you'll have to remove some actual calories, like a real 300 calories somewhere.

Or, spend this time getting real accurate on logging if you were not, see about how much you are really eating, because I'm betting even with -15% you won't lose.

Because for the body to be willing to expend energy making more muscle that is going to require more energy to maintain, just doesn't happen if you are eating way too little and body has suppressed metabolism. Why increase energy needs if it thinks you aren't getting enough already.
I'm thinking you were getting enough though, hence the fat loss in inches, no weight change, body improvements that take more energy.

lliena83

I wasn't 100% accurate with the measuring all the time, so could be off. But doing the most accurate calculator with my current body fat % gives me a BMR of 1847 and a TDEE of 2863,and cut is 2434.

First calculations were TDEE amount of cals 2699 and cut cals 2287 I don't think I've been eating my TDEE cals even with inconsistent tracking, I've got a pretty good idea of how much I eat and portion size etc. So I'm unsure what you mean? Are you saying that I won't lose by eating 2287 cals? The cut number from the first calculations I did?

What do I do then? Confused?

heybales

I wasn't 100% accurate with the measuring all the time, so could be off. But doing the most accurate calculator with my current body fat % gives me a BMR of 1847 and a TDEE of 2863,and cut is 2434.

First calculations were TDEE amount of cals 2699 and cut cals 2287 I don't think I've been eating my TDEE cals even with inconsistent tracking, I've got a pretty good idea of how much I eat and portion size etc. So I'm unsure what you mean? Are you saying that I won't lose by eating 2287 cals? The cut number from the first calculations I did?

What do I do then? Confused?

I'm suggesting that the response of your body indicates the things I talked about above. You were eating at potential maintenance, and while you may have logged 1800-2000 it wasn't accurate and you were eating much more.
Whatever that number is, you would never know until you got real accurate.
Unless you weighed for awhile and got accurate on your portion sized, just having a pretty good idea of portion size is actually not accurate by a long-shot usually.

So I'm suggesting that if you have the same accuracy and think you are eating 2287, or 2434, you are actually eating more than that number too.

2 weeks will tell easily, as 2287 is about 250 more than you were doing according to logged food.

If you gain 1 lb slowly, using valid weigh-in days, then your prior eating level was indeed maintenance.
If you gain fast and more water weight, then it was suppressed maintenance, and I'm surprised your body was willing to lose fat while build muscle in that state.

Valid weigh-in day.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.

Oh, and BMR and TDEE are all estimates. Obviousing picking from a mere 5 levels that has no bearing on what your actual exercise is is a big estimate.
BMR based on bodyfat % is better estimate.

lliena83

I think I see what you are saying, I normally weigh on a Monday morning as I don't work out Sunday's and so my body is rested. I'm going to track accurately at the 2287 and see what happens over a few weeks. Then makes adjustments from there if I need to. Fwiw I had another pt session tonight at the gym and have lost inches on my arms and back according to the calipers but have gained size with the tape measure so obv had some muscle gain. Whatever is happening Inside of me seems to be okay at the moment in making my body fat come down, it would just be nice to see the actual scale move too but I totally understand that can take time,

heybales

Actually, it should take no time at all to see some movement.
Now, a mere 250 cal real deficit will take 2 weeks to show a lb lost - but it should show.

Good weigh-in day.

lliena83

Ok update time I meticulously counted everything from Monday until Thursday last week and had a more relaxed weekend with some alcohol as was away with the husband. I normally don't drink much so this was a once in a blue moon type of affair. The scales this morning are putting me 3.5lb up from last Monday but I know some of this will be water retention/bloating from the alcohol/food over the weekend and also Its very nearly my totm. The only thing I can do is get back on with the tracking today, and see what happens next Monday, I def feel/felt stronger in my workouts last week for eating more carbs

Jennbecca33

Great update! I'm sure that 3.5 lbs is a mix of things, but not fat gain, so good for you for not worrying about it. Monthly cycles can really cause bloat gain...plus didn't you increase your calories as well? So that can cause some initial gains too. You're doing the right thing...just be consistent and let your body adjust and you you'll get results! Great job!

heybales

Great results. Stronger workouts means more need for improvements. More improvements means more metabolic increase, not only from repair, but the improved state.

lliena83

Thanks guys yeah I upped the calories by 290, we shall see what next Monday's weigh in brings

lliena83

I've just ordered a Fitbit because I love me some technology ???? my question is should I keep it on during my gym sessions when I'm lifting/cardio or shall I take it off and then record the gym session as an activity on my fotbit after my session? I wear a HRM for the gym already so will have a start-stop time to enter and a calorie burn.

heybales

Usually just wear it, get a few steps, even though the calorie estimate will be way off on all non-step based workouts - swimming, rowing, biking, elliptical, lifting, ect.

Then do your manual logging in MFP or Fitbit, indeed with correct start time.

I would not use HRM estimate of calories for lifting - it's inflated as wrong use of the formula used for HR and calorie burn.

Just use MFP's Strength Training entry, or Fitbit's Weight lifting entry for power lifting (if heavy for you with sets and rests).

I guess if you are not syncing accounts though (which would mess up the manually entered MFP goal), you'll need to correct on Fitbit's site.

And then weekly see what the prior week's better TDEE estimate was, adjust your eating goal accordingly, and off you go.

lliena83

Usually just wear it, get a few steps, even though the calorie estimate will be way off on all non-step based workouts - swimming, rowing, biking, elliptical, lifting, ect.

Then do your manual logging in MFP or Fitbit, indeed with correct start time.

I would not use HRM estimate of calories for lifting - it's inflated as wrong use of the formula used for HR and calorie burn.

Just use MFP's Strength Training entry, or Fitbit's Weight lifting entry for power lifting (if heavy for you with sets and rests).

I guess if you are not syncing accounts though (which would mess up the manually entered MFP goal), you'll need to correct on Fitbit's site.

And then weekly see what the prior week's better TDEE estimate was, adjust your eating goal accordingly, and off you go.

Thanks, I'm not going to sync them as I prefer to keep MFP just for logging food. One thing though I normally pop my HRM on at the beginning of my session do a 10min warm up cardio and then weights for 45/60 mins and then 20mins more cardio. If I just deduct say 200cals from whatever my HRM gives me at the end and then enter that on my Fitbit log do you think that would be a bit more accurate?

Or wear my Fitbit throughout and then just log 45mins weights at the end of my session using their entry which will override the time/Cals on my Fitbit for the lifting part of my workout?

heybales

Thanks, I'm not going to sync them as I prefer to keep MFP just for logging food. One thing though I normally pop my HRM on at the beginning of my session do a 10min warm up cardio and then weights for 45/60 mins and then 20mins more cardio. If I just deduct say 200cals from whatever my HRM gives me at the end and then enter that on my Fitbit log do you think that would be a bit more accurate?

Or wear my Fitbit throughout and then just log 45mins weights at the end of my session using their entry which will override the time/Cals on my Fitbit for the lifting part of my workout?

Unless you logged calorie count at end of cardio and at end of lifting and did the math, 200 is potentially as bad a guess as it's doing. You would never know.
Besides the fact, you could never enter that manually in any nice manner with start time and duration.
90 minutes logged as 1 activity with 200 taken off what HRM said isn't right either.
And then logging another activity with start time in the middle of that longer record is probably not going to work correctly either, besides fact of replacing some of what you just entered.

Leave the Fitbit on - again, any manual entry overrides it's calorie count.
If cardio is step based running or walking (you didn't mention what it is) then yes let the Fitbit estimate it.
Manually log the lifting for correct start time and duration.
If the cardio isn't step based, then just use the HRM during that time, or note what the calorie count is for just that activity.
Then manually log the cardio as a 30 min block with so many calories, start time true to when you did start.
Then manually log the lifting as 45-60 min block with Fitbit's site estimate of calories, start time right after the 30 min cardio block.

If you are replacing the whole 75-90 min block of time anyway, you don't have to split it up like you did in the actual workout.
All the incorrect calories are replaced either way.

lliena83

The cardio is normally cross trainer and bike, and spin class on a Saturday, that makes sense about how to log it thank you!
I take a little notepad with me when I workout to record if my lifts change etc so I can easily take a note of my cals burned and times on my hrm just for cardio and then use the fitbits site for the lifitng part

lliena83

Ok so it's been a week since I last weighed and I'm down a pound! didn't eat consistently to my 15%cut every day sometimes it was prob only a 10%cut but whatever I'm doing seems to be working.Also got a fitbit on Friday and my TDEE is about 70/80 cals higher than scoobys so far but I'm going to give it a full week maybe two before I start using it to do my TDEE calculations as I think having more data will give me a better average

heybales

Ok so it's been a week since I last weighed and I'm down a pound! didn't eat consistently to my 15%cut every day sometimes it was prob only a 10%cut but whatever I'm doing seems to be working.Also got a fitbit on Friday and my TDEE is about 70/80 cals higher than scoobys so far but I'm going to give it a full week maybe two before I start using it to do my TDEE calculations as I think having more data will give me a better average

great results. Perhaps feeling more energetic too.

lliena83

Yep definitley got more energy overall, it's awesome!

Jennbecca33

Awesome!

lliena83

Me checking in again, this week I maintained my weight but that's ok because I know I ate more this week, also I was trying out different macro ratios too so it might even just be that.

One interesting thing is my TDEE from my fitbit average from this first week seems to be around 3171 which is higher than scooby gave me (2699) I seem to burn between between 2300/2400 on 3 days a week and 3100+ on the other 4 days. I don't know whether to use this data now and try upping my cals again or stick with what I'm doing now for another week or two... As it would mean going from eating 2287 cals which is my scooby TDEE-15% to eating 2696 which would be my Fitbit TDEE-15%. What would you do if you were me?

Jennbecca33

If it were me, and this coming from lots of trial and error myself (I have a BodyMedia Fit and I went through the same questions myself), I would go with your Fitbit TDEE and continue to raise your calories. You could wait one more week and see if it's giving you the same numbers next week. On those days that it's giving you the higher TDEE, do you agree that you are much more active on those days compared to the lower days? It seems like it's giving you consistent numbers and you see a pattern, so I would trust it. Just take an average from all your Fitbit days and go with that -15% like you said and do that for a couple of weeks. That's a difference of about 400 cals a day, which is a lot, so increase up slowly and give your body time to adjust. Make sure you are measuring and logging accurately, or you're not going to be able to tell what works or not. It's very common for us to underestimate our activity (usually we don't realize how much our daily activity adds up to outside of workouts), and so we actually choose the incorrect activity level on Scooby, which makes our calorie intake too low. For example, I though I was moderate activity 3-5 hour level on Scooby but actually I'm the next category up (5-6 hour level), even though I only do 2.5 hours of official workouts per week, my daily activity just adds up.

lliena83

The days with my higher readings are my gym days so Yep I am more active on those days as I have a 20 min walk to the gym and the same back again afterwards. And whilst there I do 30 mins cardio and 45/60 mins weights each time. I think I will increase my cals 100 a week untill I get to the 15% of my fitbit TDEE and see what happens. Thank you

heybales

So you are much more active during the day then you gave yourself credit for. And that's where the 5 level TDEE chart has problems, it's based on exercise hours or days added to otherwise sedentary job and life, which isn't always the case. Glad you got the Fitbit to discover that, body likely wouldn't have been happy with that huge deficit.

lliena83

I'm hoping that's exactly what's been wrong, time will tell! I've upped the cals to 2400 starting yesterday and then will go up another 50 or 100 next Monday too and so on until I get to 2696. Fingers crossed it works