Evolution
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But in your mind, positive and law-abiding does not = moral, right?
Not morality grounded in God. That's all I've been trying to say.0 -
what was the topic of this thread again?0
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But in your mind, positive and law-abiding does not = moral, right?
Not morality grounded in God. That's all I've been trying to say.
That's not the same thing as what you've been saying. You've been saying that atheists have no intellectual ground or foundation for their morality. So now the only thing that can intellectual ground someone is God?0 -
No, but you did say that I had no moral foundation, and the gall that takes when defending the despicable acts in the bible in unbelievable. I once heard someone say, "Left to their own devices, people will do good and evil, but it takes religion to make a good person to do evil things." Could that be in more apparent that the defense of biblical genocide, slaughter, and slavery. The defense that I have no right to sit in judgement because it was their culture is ridiculous. THe only reason people defend it is because it's THEIR religion. How long ago does something have to of happened for it not to be immoral. 2,000 years? 100.| 20? What if we found out that a tribe in africa had slaughtered some christians and ate them. Heck, I guess that's just their culture.
So I don't see how anyone can claim they are being polite and respectful when the basis for the religion is all those who don't agree burn, and those who don't believe have no moral foundation. That's like smiling and saying screw you, then trying to back track saying how polite you were because you were smiling.
So I might not be a perfect person, and you might think I'm rude, but at least I never defended atrocities. Heck, I've changed my mind. I am now so open minded I think that cannibalism, human sacrifice, and slavery is ok. Who am I to judge another cultures morals?0 -
That's not the same thing as what you've been saying. You've been saying that atheists have no intellectual ground or foundation for their morality. So now the only thing that can intellectual ground someone is God?
I'm not changing my position on anything I've typed in here. I've tried different approaches to it, but never waivered from my original statement.
Somehow some people think that Christians (or I, personally) think atheists are all bad people. I've never said that. I've been accused of saying atheists run arround raping, stealing and committing murder. I've never said that. I have people in my life whom I trust and love who happen to be atheist. Our morality is fundamentally different. Why can't that be okay and everyone just admit it?0 -
So your opinion then....................are us Atheists going to hell? Don't put it off on your god. According to what your belief is and it's "rules" what's the outcome?
I NEVER said I think you're going to hell! I would never say or think such a thing about another person. I have repeatedly stated that atheists can be positive, law abiding citizens. I've never made such a claim about any atheist!
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what was the topic of this thread again?
Can I tell you about whales? I even have cool video links!0 -
That's not the same thing as what you've been saying. You've been saying that atheists have no intellectual ground or foundation for their morality. So now the only thing that can intellectual ground someone is God?
I'm not changing my position on anything I've typed in here. I've tried different approaches to it, but never waivered from my original statement.
Somehow some people think that Christians (or I, personally) think atheists are all bad people. I've never said that. I've been accused of saying atheists run arround raping, stealing and committing murder. I've never said that. I have people in my life whom I trust and love who happen to be atheist. Our morality is fundamentally different. Why can't that be okay and everyone just admit it?
No, no one is saying that our morality is the same. I'm saying mine, and mine alone is better. I do not speak for all atheists, as you do not speak for all Christians. But anyone who will defend evil like the many I have already mentioned simply out of blind devotion to some ancient religion is not moral I don't care how often you go to church, how much you give to charity, how many soup kitchens you work at, because in the end you have surrendered your independent thinking and morality and will justify anything in the name of god.0 -
That's not the same thing as what you've been saying. You've been saying that atheists have no intellectual ground or foundation for their morality. So now the only thing that can intellectual ground someone is God?
I'm not changing my position on anything I've typed in here. I've tried different approaches to it, but never waivered from my original statement.
Somehow some people think that Christians (or I, personally) think atheists are all bad people. I've never said that. I've been accused of saying atheists run arround raping, stealing and committing murder. I've never said that. I have people in my life whom I trust and love who happen to be atheist. Our morality is fundamentally different. Why can't that be okay and everyone just admit it?
Because some people don't like others making judgments about their own morality based on something they don't believe in?
Saying atheists can be positive law abiding people is not the same thing as saying that they can be moral people.0 -
Saying atheists can be positive law abiding people is not the same thing as saying that they can be moral people.
I've addressed this.0 -
And guys, you're mad at Patti when really you're mad at her church/beliefs/etc. Hate god, disbelieve in god, whatever we want to do. But she's a person same as us and she's entitled to her beliefs. Even if we disagree. You're certainly not going to get her to change her mind.
We're atheists. We KNOW we hate her religion. It should be no surprise to any of you that she believes what she does. If she didn't she wouldn't be a Christian.0 -
So your opinion then....................are us Atheists going to hell? Don't put it off on your god. According to what your belief is and it's "rules" what's the outcome?
Why would I ever make a statement about who I think is going to hell? That's horrible. I have no idea who gets into Heaven and who is going to hell. I'm "putting it off" on God because that's HIS decision, not mine.0 -
And guys, you're mad at Patti when really you're mad at her church/beliefs/etc. Hate god, disbelieve in god, whatever we want to do. But she's a person same as us and she's entitled to her beliefs. Even if we disagree. You're certainly not going to get her to change her mind.
We're atheists. We KNOW we hate her religion. It should be no surprise to any of you that she believes what she does. If she didn't she wouldn't be a Christian.
No Brett, I'm pretty sure I'm mad at Patty and her beliefs. They are one and the same. I refuse to back down from the assertion that I have no moral foundation because I do not suscribe to the prefabricated moral foundation of ancient mesopotamian goat herders.0 -
And guys, you're mad at Patti when really you're mad at her church/beliefs/etc. Hate god, disbelieve in god, whatever we want to do. But she's a person same as us and she's entitled to her beliefs. Even if we disagree. You're certainly not going to get her to change her mind.
We're atheists. We KNOW we hate her religion. It should be no surprise to any of you that she believes what she does. If she didn't she wouldn't be a Christian.
Oh I'm not mad at her. I actually quite like debating with her. Maybe I missed some of her points because I'm reading two different things.0 -
what was the topic of this thread again?
Can I tell you about whales? I even have cool video links!
I think it had something to do with evolution... at least that's what it said up there. Why is the title the only thing on topic? Can we start a separate theological jousting thread and move the god/no god/ lasagna god of cheese debate over there?0 -
what was the topic of this thread again?
Can I tell you about whales? I even have cool video links!
I think it had something to do with evolution... at least that's what it said up there. Why is the title the only thing on topic? Can we start a separate theological jousting thread and move the god/no god/ lasagna god of cheese debate over there?
This is a good point, and as a group mod I should have done that sooner.0 -
what was the topic of this thread again?
Can I tell you about whales? I even have cool video links!
I think it had something to do with evolution... at least that's what it said up there. Why is the title the only thing on topic? Can we start a separate theological jousting thread and move the god/no god/ lasagna god of cheese debate over there?
This is a good point, and as a group mod I should have done that sooner.
Don't get me wrong, all the contestants are great people I'm sure and we all love you more then chocolate, but really SHE believes in a Divine Being some do not. She sounds like she thinks she is superior because of her beliefs, some get angry mostly because of her choice of phrasing and a whole thread goes to heck while they debate it. It's fun at first but it's getting old.
Maybe I can help..
She'd like you all to know she doesn't mean for you to think she feels superior.
The combatants would like her to know no one hates her or her beliefs, just her phrasing.
Summarized well enough?
Can we move on to how we all evolved from space weasels now?0 -
No Brett, I'm pretty sure I'm mad at Patty and her beliefs. They are one and the same. I refuse to back down from the assertion that I have no moral foundation because I do not suscribe to the prefabricated moral foundation of ancient mesopotamian goat herders.
But she isn't saying you don't have morals. She's talking about some moral "foundation". And it's a foundation you and I don't believe in at all. So why get mad about that? We believe it's innate within us, she believes it comes from the sky wizard. Tomato fricken tomahto.
If you want to insist you have morals prove it and act like it. Stop yelling at someone over the internet for believing something different than you. We don't care for it one bit when they do it to us. I won't let this great atheist movement that's going on become nothing more than a modern age Crusades. If we want to insist that our beliefs are better than than theirs we better damn well act like it.
You think it's wrong for her to believe you'll go to hell for our beliefs. But you have no problem believing she's stupid/wicked for hers. That's basically the atheist version of condemning someone, as we have no hell to wish on them.
And really why are any of you surprised that she'd believe we'd go to hell? News flash gang, if there is a hell we're going. We're the first ones in the joint, no waiting in line, no cover charge. Hell was built specifically for us. Good thing it's 100% fictional. So hey, why worry?0 -
I'm mad at Patty and her beliefs. They are one and the same. I refuse to back down from the assertion that I have no moral foundation because I do not suscribe to the prefabricated moral foundation of ancient mesopotamian goat herders.
Most atheists I've discussed this with say they agree that atheism has no "moral foundation". I've tried asking you what your moral foundation is. I'm not being sarcastic when I ask you to educate me. To what is your morality founded/based on?0 -
Don't get me wrong, all the contestants are great people I'm sure and we all love you more then chocolate, but really SHE believes in a Divine Being some do not. She sounds like she thinks she is superior because of her beliefs, some get angry mostly because of her choice of phrasing and a whole thread goes to heck while they debate it. It's fun at first but it's getting old.
Maybe I can help..
She'd like you all to know she doesn't mean for you to think she feels superior.
The combatants would like her to know no one hates her or her beliefs, just her phrasing.
Summarized well enough?
Can we move on to how we all evolved from space weasels now?
You do realize that you don't have to keep reading, right? Maybe you find this thread meaningless enough to ridicule it in summarized version, but for some of this, it has deep meaning. This is a DEBATE thread. That's why we're in this group.0
