Evolution

ninerbuff

Believe in it? Don't believe? Whatever your belief, give your reason why.



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skywa

I believe in it! I think that we are still a young species and are continuing to evolve even now. Nothing about human being as a species is set in stone, as of now, as far as I'm concerned. C:

BrettPGH

Evolution is a fact and it's beautiful. All life comes from the same place, we're all connected by common ancestry. And we're the only species smart enough to have figured that out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccvfEJjfFOI&amp;feature=related <--- Carl Sagan, again, summing it all up nicely.

mommared53

No I don't believe in evolution. I believe we were created by God in His image. When I think about the complex systems of our bodies I can't imagine how we could possibly be a product of evolution. Even our solar system is so perfectly in balance and held together that it's impossible for me to believe it happened by accident. I have a book by John F. Ashton PhD titled "in six days - why fifty scientist choose to believe in creation". If I had had doubts about creation, this book would have convinced me to believe in it.

mvilla2426

I believe the world was created and that the creators made the world Evolve.

So yes, I do believe in evolution. I don't believe in the Biblical creation, but I feel the world was created by a spiritual being. I just feel that over the years, that being made the world evolve.

skywa

Evolution is a fact and it's beautiful. All life comes from the same place, we're all connected by common ancestry. And we're the only species smart enough to have figured that out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccvfEJjfFOI&amp;feature=related <--- Carl Sagan, again, summing it all up nicely.

We aren't the only species on this planet that can communicate. We just happen to be the dominate species on earth. Maybe other animals do know whats going on. And the universe is an infinitely large place. Expanding faster than the speed of light. Who knows whats out there. To say were the only ones smart enough to figure out whats going on (and we really only have a vague idea) is kinda ignorant.

Bahet

IMO not believing in evolution is a bit like not believing in gravity.

summalovaable

I think in a way you can't really debate that we have the ability to evolve and adapt, the science and evidence is simply there and it is not really a "debatable" subject (at least in my opinion). With that being said, I was born and raised in a very catholic family, I've never believed in the bible but have always believed in "something else." To imagine a universe appearing virtually out of nowhere seems highly improbable to me. But if such a high and mighty god were to exist, would it not be of his own interest to leave the least amount of evidence of his existence? Would this not separate the true "believers" vs the scientific skeptics.

ETA: I just realized that post made me sound super religious haha which I certainly am not. I'm taking a chemical evolutions course in my University. I love science with a passion, but there are still so many aspects of it that we have yet to understand.

Bahet

I think in a way you can't really debate that we have the ability to evolve and adapt, the science and evidence is simply there and it is not really a "debatable" subject (at least in my opinion). With that being said, I was born and raised in a very catholic family, I've never believed in the bible but have always believed in "something else." To imagine a universe appearing virtually out of nowhere seems highly improbable to me. But if such a high and mighty god were to exist, would it not be of his own interest to leave the least amount of evidence of his existence? Would this not separate the true "believers" vs the scientific skeptics.

Why would He want to leave little evidence. He's supposed to be all powerful. I'd think He'd want to leave complete, total, and irrefutable evidence. Painters sign their work. Inventors get patents. Why would God leave us nothing? Worse, why would he leave nothing then punish those who don't believe?

I do believe in God. But like someone else said, I think He set everything into motion and we've evolved from there.

summalovaable

I think in a way you can't really debate that we have the ability to evolve and adapt, the science and evidence is simply there and it is not really a "debatable" subject (at least in my opinion). With that being said, I was born and raised in a very catholic family, I've never believed in the bible but have always believed in "something else." To imagine a universe appearing virtually out of nowhere seems highly improbable to me. But if such a high and mighty god were to exist, would it not be of his own interest to leave the least amount of evidence of his existence? Would this not separate the true "believers" vs the scientific skeptics.

Why would He want to leave little evidence. He's supposed to be all powerful. I'd think He'd want to leave complete, total, and irrefutable evidence. Painters sign their work. Inventors get patents. Why would God leave us nothing? Worse, why would he leave nothing then punish those who don't believe?

I do believe in God. But like someone else said, I think He set everything into motion and we've evolved from there.

I agree with your last point entirely of "setting things into motion"
And it certainly is an interesting theory that he would want to leave us something behind, in a sense to "brag about it".

But what makes you think he is punishing the non-believers? Surely you are not saying non-believers are to be punished in "hell". This is what I mean when I say I believe there is "something else" but don't believe in the bible.

macpatti

This debate is really a "false problem". The stories in the Bible about the creation of the world and, eventually, of humans, are designed to answer the great questions about where we came from, what our existence means, etc. The Bible does this by using poetic imagery and devices. These stories are definitely not intended to teach a particular scientific theory about what physical mechanisms were used by God to bring about this world. I can believe that God created the world and guided an evolutionary process with the goal of eventually bringing humans into this world without contradicting the meaning of the biblical stories. To put it simply, whether or not one accepts some version of the theory of evolution should be based on the scientific evidence for that theory, not because the Bible supports or does not support it. The early chapters of the book of Genesis obviously have a poetic structure (e.g., seven creative days, Ten creative "words" from God; both recalling the commandments). It would be silly to interpret a poem as a literal statement and the same is true about the Bible. Although I do not know if the theory of evolution will survive future revolutions in science, I see nothing impossible with the idea that God brought a universe of unformed matter into existence by his infinite power ("Big Bang") and instilled in that material world the principles that would lead to a relentless process of "becoming" ("evolution") that would eventually produce creatures aware of themselves, the world, and God, who are also capable of freely choosing to return to their Creator.

Bahet

But what makes you think he is punishing the non-believers? Surely you are not saying non-believers are to be punished in "hell". This is what I mean when I say I believe there is "something else" but don't believe in the bible.

I'm just talking about what some Christians believe - that if you don't believe in their version of God (who doesn't leave any real proof of His existence) that you are going to hell.

Macpatti, you can't quote the Bible to prove that God exists. That's a bit like quoting Twilight to prove that vampires exist. If you don't already believe what the Bible says, it's just another story.

BrettPGH

We aren't the only species on this planet that can communicate. We just happen to be the dominate species on earth. Maybe other animals do know whats going on. And the universe is an infinitely large place. Expanding faster than the speed of light. Who knows whats out there. To say were the only ones smart enough to figure out whats going on (and we really only have a vague idea) is kinda ignorant.

Other species can communicate. But why would they understand evolution? We're the dominant species and it took us thousands of years and amazing leaps to figure it out. And you see even everyone here still doesn't get it.

Sure alien species might very well understand evolution, probably better than us. But I certainly didn't think I needed to include them in my statement. I'm not nuts. But I'll clarify for you.

On the planet Earth we are the only species with an understanding of evolution, and even that we're still working on.

macpatti

Macpatti, you can't quote the Bible to prove that God exists. That's a bit like quoting Twilight to prove that vampires exist. If you don't already believe what the Bible says, it's just another story.

I don't understand your statement. What do you mean I can't quote the bible to prove God exists?

BrettPGH

Also we have to stop confusing the issue. Religion has no place in the discussion. This is science. No one brings religion into physics. The evidence for evolution is undeniable. It's a theory the same way gravity is a theory. It's not a hypothesis, it's not a guess. If you've ever taken a prescription antibiotic guess what? You believe in evolution.

There are entire museums filled with fossils. We have sequenced our genomes and we can see where and when species split from one another. No one is out there making all this up.

Just look at the face of a chimp and tell me you don't feel like you're looking at family.

macpatti

Come on, Brett. Most debates regarding evolution have one side coming from a scientific position and the other a religious. Of course religion has a place in this discussion. However, my post was to show how religion and science can often go hand in hand, and not always oppose each other.

BrettPGH

Macpatti, you can't quote the Bible to prove that God exists. That's a bit like quoting Twilight to prove that vampires exist. If you don't already believe what the Bible says, it's just another story.

I don't understand your statement. What do you mean I can't quote the bible to prove God exists?

Patti he's referring to the circular argument for God. "God is real because the bible says so and the bible is true because it's the word of God."

We can go on and on about that but this thread is about evolution. We have another thread we can slug it out in for religious issues.

macpatti

Patti he's referring to the circular argument for God. "God is real because the bible says so and the bible is true because it's the word of God."

We can go on and on about that but this thread is about evolution. We have another thread we can slug it out in for religious issues.

Gotcha. Yeah, we'll save that for another thread.

macpatti

No one brings religion into physics.

You can bring theology and philosophy in all subjects. We do it all the time where I work (a Jesuit school). We should be able to see God in all things.

BrettPGH

Come on, Brett. Most debates regarding evolution have one side coming from a scientific position and the other a religious. Of course religion has a place in this discussion. However, my post was to show how religion and science can often go hand in hand, and not always oppose each other.

You're right Patti. But that shouldn't be the case. Other aspects of science don't have to deal with religious believers arguing the con side. Singling out only evolution is uncalled for.

If religion wants to argue against evolution it had better provide some evidence. Because evolution has evidence. TONS of it.

Religion and science have conflicted before. Ask Galileo. They were wrong then. They're also wrong when they say evolution is false or that dinosaurs didn't exist. I don't say these things to be offensive. I say them because they are true.

macpatti

You're right Patti. But that shouldn't be the case. Why don't discussions about physics have to deal with religious believers arguing the con side?

What I'm saying is that if religion wants to argue against evolution it had better provide some evidence. Because evolution has evidence. TONS of it.

Religion and science have conflicted before. Ask Galileo. They were wrong then. They're also wrong when they say evolution is false or that dinosaurs don't exist. I don't say these things to be offensive. I say them because they are true.

But what I'm saying is not everyone who is religious argues against evolution. I know plenty of theologians who will explain it just as I did. It's a "false problem".

No offense taken!

KimmyEB

Also we have to stop confusing the issue. Religion has no place in the discussion.

Yes, it does, since it plays a significant factor in a lot of people's argument for or against it.

Personally, yes, I believe in evolution. Living things evolve all the time.

Do I think we "started as monkeys" or "started as tadpoles?" I honestly have no idea, and personally, I don't really care. I'll leave that up to the scientists to discover. I do not believe in the creation stories from any religious texts, so I definitely hold my water with the scientific explanation of our origins.

BrettPGH

Ok I will amend my statement.

If religion and religious believers would like to argue against the existence of the evolutionary process it/they certainly can. But if they're smart they won't. Because evolution has been proven. Creation myths are simply that. Myths. You can not put evolution up against Adam & Eve or any other creation fable and carry on any sort of mature discussion.

macpatti

Ok I will amend my statement.

If religion and religious believers would like to argue against the existence of the evolutionary process it/they certainly can. But if they're smart they won't. Because evolution has been proven. Creation myths are simply that. Myths. You can not put evolution up against Adam & Eve or any other creation fable and carry on any sort of mature discussion.

And that's why most theologians (and I) won't.

BrettPGH

Thanks Patti. I don't care for science being disrespected, mostly for the reason that WE'RE ON THE INTERNET! Don't tell me scientists are full of it while you type words that are instantly translated into binary code and spread by a world wide digital signal. I equate it to going into someone's church and saying God isn't real. I'd think that showed horrible manners.

daffodilsoup

Evolution doesn't need to be "believed" because it is scientific fact.

Bahet

Macpatti, you can't quote the Bible to prove that God exists. That's a bit like quoting Twilight to prove that vampires exist. If you don't already believe what the Bible says, it's just another story.

I don't understand your statement. What do you mean I can't quote the bible to prove God exists?

Patti he's referring to the circular argument for God. "God is real because the bible says so and the bible is true because it's the word of God."

We can go on and on about that but this thread is about evolution. We have another thread we can slug it out in for religious issues.

I'm not a "he" but other than that you are correct.

macpatti

Thanks Patti. I don't care for science being disrespected, mostly for the reason that WE'RE ON THE INTERNET! Don't tell me scientists are full of it while you type words that are instantly translated into binary code and spread by a world wide digital signal. I equate it to going into someone's church and saying God isn't real. I'd think that showed horrible manners.

I also know many great scientists who can't deny the existence of God. If we were all just atoms and matter, we wouldn't even be able to debate these issues. I think it's more important to focus on how science and religion can go hand in hand instead of trying to prove the other is wrong. Both are important disciplines.

KimmyEB

Thanks Patti. I don't care for science being disrespected, mostly for the reason that WE'RE ON THE INTERNET! Don't tell me scientists are full of it while you type words that are instantly translated into binary code and spread by a world wide digital signal. I equate it to going into someone's church and saying God isn't real. I'd think that showed horrible manners.

I also know many great scientists who can't deny the existence of God. If we were all just atoms and matter, we wouldn't even be able to debate these issues. I think it's more important to focus on how science and religion can go hand in hand instead of trying to prove the other is wrong. Both are important disciplines.

The problem with focusing on religion and science going hand in hand is that not everyone believes in the same religion, and a lot of people don't follow any religion period. Scientific evidence, however, can usually not be disputed, and strives for FACTUAL EVIDENCE, vs. what cannot be proven.

Bahet

Thanks Patti. I don't care for science being disrespected, mostly for the reason that WE'RE ON THE INTERNET! Don't tell me scientists are full of it while you type words that are instantly translated into binary code and spread by a world wide digital signal. I equate it to going into someone's church and saying God isn't real. I'd think that showed horrible manners.

I also know many great scientists who can't deny the existence of God. If we were all just atoms and matter, we wouldn't even be able to debate these issues. I think it's more important to focus on how science and religion can go hand in hand instead of trying to prove the other is wrong. Both are important disciplines.

The problem with focusing on religion and science going hand in hand is that not everyone believes in the same religion, and a lot of people don't follow any religion period. Scientific evidence, however, can usually not be disputed, and strives for FACTUAL EVIDENCE, vs. what cannot be proven.

Exactly. Religious people always want science and religion to go hand in hand (if they're willing to concede that science exists :laugh:) but it's only THEIR religion that they are willing to accept. If science suddenly decides "OK, we concede that religion could have something to do with it. We feel that it is possible that the Goddess created the Earth and made us it's guardians..." Christians would be in an uproar.

The other issue is that saying "It must have been God." is really just saying "We haven't figured that out yet." At one time gravity was explained as God pushing things down. Heaven was just above the clouds. The Earth was the center of the universe and the sun revolved around it. All those things were religious explanations. All were disproven by science.

macpatti

Scientific evidence, however, can usually not be disputed, and strives for FACTUAL EVIDENCE, vs. what cannot be proven.

As far as scientific evidence not being disputed....it happens all the time. Science disputes scientific evidence all the time.

Religious people always want science and religion to go hand in hand (if they're willing to concede that science exists :laugh:) but it's only THEIR religion that they are willing to accept.

Religious scholars, whether Christian or non-Christian, can find common ground. I'm not asking for scientists to claim there is a God. I'm saying many won't try to dispute it.