suicide: do we have a right to death?
Replies
-
I absolutely believe that people have the right to terminate their own lives at any point they please. I don't really see life as anything special or sacred, so if a person is feeling so much pain, physically or emotionally, that death is the preferable alternative, then it is absolutely not my place to stop them.
For 3/4 years at college, I was an RA, and I counseled and found help for a lot of suicidal people. For many of the students in my care, counseling/therapy/etc. did "help" them, but I can't pretend to know what is best for anyone but myself.0 -
I absolutely believe that people have the right to terminate their own lives at any point they please. I don't really see life as anything special or sacred, so if a person is feeling so much pain, physically or emotionally, that death is the preferable alternative, then it is absolutely not my place to stop them.
For 3/4 years at college, I was an RA, and I counseled and found help for a lot of suicidal people. For many of the students in my care, counseling/therapy/etc. did "help" them, but I can't pretend to know what is best for anyone but myself.
Many suicidal people are influenced by life circumstances that change for the better in time. The teens and twenties can be a time of emotional upheaval and frustration. It's not easy establishing yourself in the world, and some people lose hope. I would try everything in my power to help someone in this situation.
But, the end stage of a terminal illness where pain and suffering is unbearable? I absolutely believe that situation should be self-curtailed if that is the individual's wish.0 -
What people don't seem to be taking into consideration is that often, dehabilitating depression that leads to people thinking of suicide is brought on by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness issues are still taboo in this nation and people are often too ashamed to get help. I see no difference in the brain than I do with any other organ. So if a person is sick in the head, we have to ask if they are competent enough to choose death with no one in our society trying to stop them. Often, with proper medication and therapy, these people cannot believe they were ever suicidal. So, in my mind, if we are going to let some one who is suffering from a chemical imbalance of the mind kill themselves, it's equivalent of not trying to revive a person who just had a heart attack. They are both organs, should we let them die?
But obviously, I am not talking about the terminally ill who should be able to decide when they have had enough. Besides, who cares if suicide is illegal or legal. If I kill myself tonight, it's not as if I can get busted for it. And even if the suicide attempt fails, are we going to imprison the terminally ill and mentally impaired? We have gotten law crazy in this country.0 -
People who commit suicide should be prosecuted for first degree murder and sentenced to death.
Under the old laws in the UK, attempted suicide was, in some cases, a hanging offence... Seems deeply illogical to me! I do think those who are terminally ill should be allowed to choose the time and manner of their dying. I don't think doctors who provide the means for this should be prosecuted for doing so. Nor do I believe that attempted suicide should be treated as a crime. Someone trying to take their own life is doing so in desperation, and often, as Adrian said, because of a treatable chemical imbalance.
I do wish that better support and services were available for those 'at risk' - I once was terribly concerned about a member of my family, and tried to alert someone, anyone, to their state of mind, as I was in a different country, and couldn't do much myself. Absolutely no-one was interested, unless the person had already tried to end his or her own life, which strikes me as short-sighted and irresponsible.0 -
I think that there needs to be very specific criteria for a doctor to assist in a patient's death. I think that people who are terminally ill and who have a very low quality of life should be allowed to make the decision to end their own life. In the event that they are no longer able to make that decision it should be left to their substitute decision maker.
We've all hear the term "pull the plug." In an ICU situation, where a patient is mechanically ventilated and their body is incapable of supporting life without multiple medical interventions, families often make the decision to turn of the ventilator and allow nature to take its course. When you extubate a patient who has been medically supported for several days to weeks, death often happens quite quickly.
To me, it is a very fie line between the situation I presented above and assisted suicide for terminally ill patients. Again, to assist someone with suicide, I think there need to be many criteria taken into consideration: is the patient of sound mind to make this decision? Do they fully understand the implications of the decision? Have they been evaluated by two medical professionals? (I think it's important to have to doctors make the call independently of one another as with a brain death declaration). What is their current quality of life? What is their projected quality of life? What is the typical course of the disease they have? Is their family supportive?
As with any other controversial medical intervention, there needs to be a system design that allows patient autonomy with an informed consent. If they sign the consent, proceed as with any other medical intervention.
As an aside, we as a society are so obsessed with keeping people alive at any cost. We seem to have lost sight of the fact that death is a natural part of life. We aren't stopping to consider the well being of the patient.0 -
Well said, Catherine - I agree with the points you have made. Death is a natural, and inevitable part of life. For those for whom death is likely to be drawn out and painful, the right to choose their own time and manner of death, provided we can ensure that this is an informed choice freely made, without coercion, is, in my view, an essential human right that has been neglected for far too long.0
-
OK, on a serious note, I think assisted suicide for a terminally ill person is an absolute right. It's none of the government's damn business.
what about those that aren't terminally ill, they just want to be done with it. Is that OK? If a doctor perscribes lethal doses of a drug they know will kill the patient should they be persocuted?0 -
I am for medically assisted suicide for the terminally ill. If a terminal patient is in such a state that each day brings nothing but dread and pain, I believe they have a right to go early instead of suffering. If the patient and their Doctor agree there is no alternative to alleviate the pain or better their quality of life for their remaining time, who am I to say they can't?0
-
OK, on a serious note, I think assisted suicide for a terminally ill person is an absolute right. It's none of the government's damn business.
what about those that aren't terminally ill, they just want to be done with it. Is that OK? If a doctor perscribes lethal doses of a drug they know will kill the patient should they be persocuted?
It's a tricky one, but almost any medication can be lethal if taken in sufficient quantities. If you start prosecuting doctors who prescribe medication that is taken with suicidal intent, you'd end up prosecuting a lot of doctors whose prescriptions were not made with that in mind. It's rather different if a doctor deliberately administers a lethal dose - without the patient's informed consent, that's murder - but with informed consent, that's when it gets sticky. To my mind, if informed, of-sound-mind consent is obtained and verified, perhaps by another clinician and also by a psychiatric specialist or two, and the patient requests it, then no, the doctor should not be prosecuted. There have to be checks, of course, and the 'of-sound-mind' bit is crucial, but I do essentially support the right to self-determination. The Swiss model seems to work.0 -
OK, on a serious note, I think assisted suicide for a terminally ill person is an absolute right. It's none of the government's damn business.
what about those that aren't terminally ill, they just want to be done with it. Is that OK? If a doctor perscribes lethal doses of a drug they know will kill the patient should they be persocuted?
It's a tricky one, but almost any medication can be lethal if taken in sufficient quantities. If you start prosecuting doctors who prescribe medication that is taken with suicidal intent, you'd end up prosecuting a lot of doctors whose prescriptions were not made with that in mind.
I agree, but I mean doctors who prescribe more than they should. There are some drugs that should only be despensed in certain amounts (like how you can't have refills on narcotics) Or even leathal injections....If i were to commit suicide (which I wouldn't do) I would much rather a lethal injection than shooting my brains out, so should people have a right to die humanely? It would also preven parents from coming across the body and having to cut their kid down from a rope (for the record, I am not saying that it should be OK, I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks it should be.0 -
what about those that aren't terminally ill, they just want to be done with it. Is that OK? If a doctor perscribes lethal doses of a drug they know will kill the patient should they be persocuted?
I do not think any medical professional should be doing this and if they did yes, should be prosecuted if they medically assist - not for just prescribing a drug. It goes against their creed. That patient should be referred to a trained psychiatrist and that psychiatrist should do everything they can to help them live better, not die faster.0 -
YES!Should suicide/assisting in suicide be illegal?
This brings us back to the question of punishment again, Patti! How do you suggest someone who illegally tries to commit suicide be punished or censured? And what is the logic behind your suggestion?0 -
OK, on a serious note, I think assisted suicide for a terminally ill person is an absolute right. It's none of the government's damn business.
what about those that aren't terminally ill, they just want to be done with it. Is that OK? If a doctor perscribes lethal doses of a drug they know will kill the patient should they be persocuted?
You don't need a prescription to take a lethal dose of medication. Acetaminophen, dimenhydrinate, and many other drugs available over the counter are lethal in sufficient doses.
In cases of depression, situational or major, no I do not believe in assisted suicide.0 -
Exactly. Assuming the person has the ability to see a doctor and can afford medication if a doctor prescribes Prosac for a depressed person and that person swallows a month worth of the pills with a bottle of vodka and dies, the doctor shouldn't be prosecuted. Even if the pills are something that you can't get a 90 day supply, the person doesn't have to take them. They can save them up or take the whole bottle on the day they fill the prescription or mix medications with other drugs or alcohol.OK, on a serious note, I think assisted suicide for a terminally ill person is an absolute right. It's none of the government's damn business.
what about those that aren't terminally ill, they just want to be done with it. Is that OK? If a doctor perscribes lethal doses of a drug they know will kill the patient should they be persocuted?
It's a tricky one, but almost any medication can be lethal if taken in sufficient quantities. If you start prosecuting doctors who prescribe medication that is taken with suicidal intent, you'd end up prosecuting a lot of doctors whose prescriptions were not made with that in mind. It's rather different if a doctor deliberately administers a lethal dose - without the patient's informed consent, that's murder - but with informed consent, that's when it gets sticky. To my mind, if informed, of-sound-mind consent is obtained and verified, perhaps by another clinician and also by a psychiatric specialist or two, then no, the doctor should not be prosecuted. There have to be checks, of course, but I do essentially support the right to self-determination. The Swiss model seems to work.
What about those who are mentally ill but have no insurance? Whose fault is it when they kill themselves because they weren't able to get the help they needed?0 -
YES!Should suicide/assisting in suicide be illegal?
This brings us back to the question of punishment again, Patti! How do you suggest someone who illegally tries to commit suicide be punished or censured? And what is the logic behind your suggestion?
People who attempt suicide due to depression should not be further punished. They should be offered medical help. Depression is an illness, often treatable, and people who suffer from depression can and do live very normal lives. Further stigmatizing mental illness will cause those who need help to not seek it out. People who attempt suicide need to be treated with compassion and understanding, as you would treat a patient with any other condition or disorder.0 -
It's a tricky one, but almost any medication can be lethal if taken in sufficient quantities. If you start prosecuting doctors who prescribe medication that is taken with suicidal intent, you'd end up prosecuting a lot of doctors whose prescriptions were not made with that in mind.
I agree, but I mean doctors who prescribe more than they should. There are some drugs that should only be despensed in certain amounts (like how you can't have refills on narcotics) Or even leathal injections....If i were to commit suicide (which I wouldn't do) I would much rather a lethal injection than shooting my brains out, so should people have a right to die humanely? It would also preven parents from coming across the body and having to cut their kid down from a rope (for the record, I am not saying that it should be OK, I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks it should be.
[/quote]
Just bringing some attention back to my qualifier on the question about a script. I don't mean they prescribed someone narcotics, hell I was given a crap ton of narcotics after my surgery I mean, prescribing drugs that obviously conflict or way too much. If someone saves their pills and the dr. give them a new script then he has no way of knowing and there's evidence that the doctor prescribed it properly. I mean should we make it legal to prescribe lethal doses or even give injections.0 -
What about those who are mentally ill but have no insurance? Whose fault is it when they kill themselves because they weren't able to get the help they needed?
There are a lot of clinics out there that can/will help people who do not have insurance. That being said, insurance or none, if someone kills themselves it was their own choice and their own "fault." Yes, i believe in mental illness, yes, I know there are a LOT of things that play into someone comitting suicide, but mentally ill or not they made the choice. And yes, I have friends who have attempted suicide who would back me up on that one. Alcohol contributed to their mental state but alcohol did not make them pull the trigger. Call me insensitive if you wish, but those are my thoughts0 -
People who attempt suicide due to depression should not be further punished. They should be offered medical help. Depression is an illness, often treatable, and people who suffer from depression can and do live very normal lives. Further stigmatizing mental illness will cause those who need help to not seek it out. People who attempt suicide need to be treated with compassion and understanding, as you would treat a patient with any other condition or disorder.
From what I understand suicide is "illegal" now, but people are "sentenced" to a mental hospital or whatever medical facility deemed necessary. My friend recently attempted suicide and after he finally got out of the hospital they made him stay in the psychward for a while after that. I don't think that the psych ward helped much, surviving crazy bullet wounds was a wake up call for him but at least the state did their part0 -
What about those who are mentally ill but have no insurance? Whose fault is it when they kill themselves because they weren't able to get the help they needed?
There are a lot of clinics out there that can/will help people who do not have insurance. That being said, insurance or none, if someone kills themselves it was their own choice and their own "fault." Yes, i believe in mental illness, yes, I know there are a LOT of things that play into someone comitting suicide, but mentally ill or not they made the choice. And yes, I have friends who have attempted suicide who would back me up on that one. Alcohol contributed to their mental state but alcohol did not make them pull the trigger. Call me insensitive if you wish, but those are my thoughts
One could argue in from a medico-legal standpoint that they were incapable of making an informed decision at the time of the suicide attempt. In a mental state altered by depressants such as alcohol or by mental illness, one could be considered not mentally sound to make an informed decision.0 -
People who attempt suicide due to depression should not be further punished. They should be offered medical help. Depression is an illness, often treatable, and people who suffer from depression can and do live very normal lives. Further stigmatizing mental illness will cause those who need help to not seek it out. People who attempt suicide need to be treated with compassion and understanding, as you would treat a patient with any other condition or disorder.
From what I understand suicide is "illegal" now, but people are "sentenced" to a mental hospital or whatever medical facility deemed necessary. My friend recently attempted suicide and after he finally got out of the hospital they made him stay in the psychward for a while after that. I don't think that the psych ward helped much, surviving crazy bullet wounds was a wake up call for him but at least the state did their part
There needs to be a complete system overhaul. Mental illness is still taboo and people do not have access to adequate resources.0 -
One could argue in from a medico-legal standpoint that they were incapable of making an informed decision at the time of the suicide attempt. In a mental state altered by depressants such as alcohol or by mental illness, one could be considered not mentally sound to make an informed decision.
this is very true and I completely agree. The way you put it is way better than i could have, basially what I meant is what you said but if we need to say "who's fault" it is (because that was asked) then obviously it is their "fault" yes it is the fault of the disease but if we need to label a person than the person who pull the trigger is who is at fault.
I also agree that there really needs to be an overhaul of the mental health system0 -
this is very true and I completely agree. The way you put it is way better than i could have, basially what I meant is what you said but if we need to say "who's fault" it is (because that was asked) then obviously it is their "fault" yes it is the fault of the disease but if we need to label a person than the person who pull the trigger is who is at fault.
I also agree that there really needs to be an overhaul of the mental health system
I see what you mean now about assigning fault, however I do not agree. If a person is declared "non compos mentis" they are legally not responsible for their actions. They are not of sound mind and are incapable of making an informed decision.
In cases of attempted suicide, I think that assigning fault or blame is wrong and completely unhelpful.0 -
I think it should be allowed ONLY in the case of terminal illness. I absolutely feel that people should be able to die at peace, in a manner that they wish. That's hard for me to say, because from my religious upbringing, suicide has bad consequences after death. It's no secret that I am back and forth on my religious upbringing but personally I wouldn't take my own life.
In the case of the metally ill. No. And any person who assists should be charged with murder. You can't make that decision for yourself when you are not 'being yourself" or in the right mindset. I have seen the effects on others and have always thought it to be a very selfish thing. A good friend of mine, who I have know since preschool has been dealing with her stepdad committing suicide last year. The day he was caught embezzeling money from the non-profit center he worked for as CFO, he took his own life. Since that day, her mother and siblings have lost their house, clothing, her mother's vehicle and basically every beloning they had went to an auction to pay back the center. Her mother didn't know. They had belongings consistant with any of CFO for an agency, nothing extravagant. It's the most sad and unfair thing I have ever witnessed.0 -
I would suggest that someone attempting suicide has a mental illness. My hope would be that "punishment" would only consist of mandatory mental health therapy.This brings us back to the question of punishment again, Patti! How do you suggest someone who illegally tries to commit suicide be punished or censured? And what is the logic behind your suggestion?0 -
.I think it should be allowed ONLY in the case of terminal illness
Could it be argued that someone who is terminally ill is not in their "normal" or "right" mindset? Suffering from a terminal illness brings with it depression for many, and many times a good dose of medication that could alter one's state of mind. Just wondering everyone's thoughts on that. I think there's a big difference between wishing/praying for death and wanting to commit suicide. While I can certainly appreciate people wishing or even praying for death, I just don't know that really means they want to kill themselves or they really want someone else to do it for them.You can't make that decision for yourself when you are not 'being yourself" or in the right mindset..0 -
What about those who are mentally ill but have no insurance? Whose fault is it when they kill themselves because they weren't able to get the help they needed?
There are a lot of clinics out there that can/will help people who do not have insurance. That being said, insurance or none, if someone kills themselves it was their own choice and their own "fault." Yes, i believe in mental illness, yes, I know there are a LOT of things that play into someone comitting suicide, but mentally ill or not they made the choice. And yes, I have friends who have attempted suicide who would back me up on that one. Alcohol contributed to their mental state but alcohol did not make them pull the trigger. Call me insensitive if you wish, but those are my thoughts
One could argue in from a medico-legal standpoint that they were incapable of making an informed decision at the time of the suicide attempt. In a mental state altered by depressants such as alcohol or by mental illness, one could be considered not mentally sound to make an informed decision.
Certainly, compos mentis is an absolute requirement of informed consent, but does suicidal intention always automatically infer an altered state of mind? Certainly the majority of 'impulse' or depression-linked suicides could be classified as non-compos-mentis, but what about someone who has been told, for example, that they have a chronic illness that is not terminal, but will leave them in constant pain, with an extremely poor quality of life? Grief is another interesting one - how do we handle the elderly person who has lost their life-partner of decades, feels they have lived their life well, but has simply had enough, and prefers not to live on without the companionship and love they have shared with their partner all their adult life? Assuming this is not the earliest stages of grief, or shock, in the first instance, that person might very well be compos mentis and suicidal. If either of those people makes an informed, compos mentis decision to end their life, where do we stand on that, and on the medic who might help them to achieve their goal?0 -
The case of being terminally ill with depression is still different. They aren't going to get better. Yes they can be given medication to improve their mood but they won't ever improve physically, still dying.
.I think it should be allowed ONLY in the case of terminal illness
Could it be argued that someone who is terminally ill is not in their "normal" or "right" mindset? Suffering from a terminal illness brings with it depression for many, and many times a good dose of medication that could alter one's state of mind. Just wondering everyone's thoughts on that. I think there's a big difference between wishing/praying for death and wanting to commit suicide. While I can certainly appreciate people wishing or even praying for death, I just don't know that really means they want to kill themselves or they really want someone else to do it for them.You can't make that decision for yourself when you are not 'being yourself" or in the right mindset..0 -
.I think it should be allowed ONLY in the case of terminal illness
Could it be argued that someone who is terminally ill is not in their "normal" or "right" mindset? Suffering from a terminal illness brings with it depression for many, and many times a good dose of medication that could alter one's state of mind. Just wondering everyone's thoughts on that. I think there's a big difference between wishing/praying for death and wanting to commit suicide. While I can certainly appreciate people wishing or even praying for death, I just don't know that really means they want to kill themselves or they really want someone else to do it for them.You can't make that decision for yourself when you are not 'being yourself" or in the right mindset..
Certainly these are things to be considered, and the checks on euthanasia must always be rigorous and thorough to prevent mistakes being made, and coercion or guilt-tactics being adopted. However, I know several people whose thoughts on the matter are quite clear. Should they be diagnosed with a terminal illness, and all attempts to ameliorate the symptoms have been exhausted, they do not wish to suffer, and to put their families through that suffering with them. They wish to be euthanised, should that point come about. One has, I know, gone so far as to draw up a legal order to that effect, though, of course it has no 'teeth', and cannot be enforced. However, it is a clear statement of intent, made whilst the person is of entirely sound mind and body.0 -
But what if they can be given something for their depression and something else for the pain? I've had a family member die of stomach cancer, and she was in so much pain at the end. She was also depressed and probably hoping she'd just die. The doctors were able to treat her depression and give her medication that all but put her in a coma. She was then able to die naturally. I'm just not sure that someone who is in such great pain, depressed, and hopeless is in the right frame of mind at that point to ask someone to help them end their life.The case of being terminally ill with depression is still different. They aren't going to get better. Yes they can be given medication to improve their mood but they won't ever improve physically, still dying.0 -
.I think it should be allowed ONLY in the case of terminal illness
Could it be argued that someone who is terminally ill is not in their "normal" or "right" mindset? Suffering from a terminal illness brings with it depression for many, and many times a good dose of medication that could alter one's state of mind. Just wondering everyone's thoughts on that. I think there's a big difference between wishing/praying for death and wanting to commit suicide. While I can certainly appreciate people wishing or even praying for death, I just don't know that really means they want to kill themselves or they really want someone else to do it for them.You can't make that decision for yourself when you are not 'being yourself" or in the right mindset..
That's why I agree with the medically assisted suicide in this case - because the medical professionals can assess the situation and assist in a peaceful end if say ie: The patient is terminal, the patient is in constant physical pain with no relief, the patient will be in this state with no relief until death. Open discussion and diagnosis over time would enable the Doctor to assess the patients mental state.
A living will could clear up some concerns mentioned here... things like pulling the plug... is it the drugs talking or the person?
I wouldn't want to be kept alive in a vegetative state. I wouldn't want to live out my last days bedridden in excruciating pain if I didn't have to. Currently I am of sound mind under no influence of illness or drugs.0
This discussion has been closed.