Leashes for Kids
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Of course I post a flippant remark in this thread, then just hours later see a woman with one kid strapped to her chest and two toddlers running next to her with the backpack/leash contraptions. She was on a busy street and it looked a little scary.How is it "lazy" to let your toddler walk around without having their arm stuck up in the air to hold your hand all the time? Leashes are no "lazier" than strollers or shopping carts for kids who can walk. Do you laugh and judge when you see a 3yo in a stroller too?
While I didn't point and laugh at her, I still reserve the right to. Because I'm prickly (adjust that sentence to your liking).
I had a bunch of my friends reply on my status update for my original post that they have used leashes with their kids. I'm fine with that (and glad no has deleted me yet). But I still stand by my assertion that it's worthy of ridicule. Those of us with kids and a sense of humor understand that most of what we do is worthy of ridicule. Being a parent makes you do crazy things. I have certainly done things worthy of ridicule. Leashes, no.
My characterization of "lazy" was both physical and mental. I think it's creatively lazy to use a leash with a kid in almost any circumstance. I believe there are better solutions. I think you hold a kid's hand in really dangerous scenarios (crossing the street, etc.) then let go when it's safer. If still in a semi-dangerous area, teach the kid to grab your belt, pants, your arm - even a rope. I've watched kindergarden teachers manage a classroom of 24 kids across a street using a rope they all grabbed onto.
Why is a rope different than a leash? BECAUSE THE CHILD IS MAKING A DECISION. The kid is taking part in being safe. He/she is learning to make a decision. Teach the child to be safe. If they aren't safe, there are consequences. Sometimes that means not enjoying the dinner out or trip to the mall. Parenting is about tough choices.
I'm sure there are exceptions, and people will have stories where they are convinced that a leash contraption was the ONLY solution available. And I know there are kids out there that are really hard to control. But I've worked with lots of different kids of different ages, including working within the Special Ed program and severely disabled elementary school kids. And I believe kids can LEARN. They will rise to your expectations. It will take more time, but I don't think a leash is necessary.
So maybe a leash once. But then TEACH them different behavior (or modify your own). If you are using a leash every time you take your kid somewhere, I'm gonna stick with that being lazy. And a missed learning/growth opportunity for the kid.
And yes, strollers and shopping carts are lazy too for kids that can walk. I made that choice often. And it was lazy on my part. Often I was just in a hurry. Those little legs don't move fast enough. But seeing kids that can walk in strollers or shopping carts is not nearly as funny as a kid on a leash. So I don't usually laugh. Unless the kid is 15.0 -
I'm really glad you wrote "inssert sarcasm", because I would have never understood your ****ty tone. I never knew parenting was supposed to be easy. It it's about ease, might I suggest a shock collar for the child, or maybe a choke chain. Neither are permanently damaging and can provide excellent obedience.
Well thank god you took that to a useless hyperbolic place, otherwise you might have gotten away with not sounding pissy.
Hyperbolic? I don't understand. If I was using hyperbole, I would have said "insert hyperbolic scenario". Besides, it's a valid point. If all that matters is making it easier to manage our children, explain to me why we can't use choke collars. All it does is apply an uncomfortable pressure to the throat the harder they pull. No bruising or scratching. Or how about a gentle leader. That would be perfect if a choke chain made you uncomforable. Just wrap it around their face and everytime they pull against the leash, they turn their own head.
Seriously, are you suffering from low blood sugar or just trolling? First you assume the use of a leash for children and a choke collar would be the same. I can't imagine anyone would use a harness and a leash for a child thinking that it would somehow modify their behavior or enhance their ability to judge whether or not they should run off. A child on a leash is merely kept from running off, not taught a lesson.
Second, a choke collar for a dog is at best shocking and disturbing for the animal. It's a mild form of trauma that should only be used for dogs who when no other option has worked- and then it should be used carefully. At worst, it's painful if misused. Neither of those are the intended, or really even expected, outcomes for using a leash on a child.
Now if you really think the difference between the two methods isn't that severe, feel free to make yourself sound more ridiculous.0 -
Of course I post a flippant remark in this thread, then just hours later see a woman with one kid strapped to her chest and two toddlers running next to her with the backpack/leash contraptions. She was on a busy street and it looked a little scary.How is it "lazy" to let your toddler walk around without having their arm stuck up in the air to hold your hand all the time? Leashes are no "lazier" than strollers or shopping carts for kids who can walk. Do you laugh and judge when you see a 3yo in a stroller too?
While I didn't point and laugh at her, I still reserve the right to. Because I'm prickly (adjust that sentence to your liking).
I had a bunch of my friends reply on my status update for my original post that they have used leashes with their kids. I'm fine with that (and glad no has deleted me yet). But I still stand by my assertion that it's worthy of ridicule. Those of us with kids and a sense of humor understand that most of what we do is worthy of ridicule. Being a parent makes you do crazy things. I have certainly done things worthy of ridicule. Leashes, no.
My characterization of "lazy" was both physical and mental. I think it's creatively lazy to use a leash with a kid in almost any circumstance. I believe there are better solutions. I think you hold a kid's hand in really dangerous scenarios (crossing the street, etc.) then let go when it's safer. If still in a semi-dangerous area, teach the kid to grab your belt, pants, your arm - even a rope. I've watched kindergarden teachers manage a classroom of 24 kids across a street using a rope they all grabbed onto.
Why is a rope different than a leash? BECAUSE THE CHILD IS MAKING A DECISION. The kid is taking part in being safe. He/she is learning to make a decision. Teach the child to be safe. If they aren't safe, there are consequences. Sometimes that means not enjoying the dinner out or trip to the mall. Parenting is about tough choices.
I'm sure there are exceptions, and people will have stories where they are convinced that a leash contraption was the ONLY solution available. And I know there are kids out there that are really hard to control. But I've worked with lots of different kids of different ages, including working within the Special Ed program and severely disabled elementary school kids. And I believe kids can LEARN. They will rise to your expectations. It will take more time, but I don't think a leash is necessary.
So maybe a leash once. But then TEACH them different behavior (or modify your own). If you are using a leash every time you take your kid somewhere, I'm gonna stick with that being lazy. And a missed learning/growth opportunity for the kid.
And yes, strollers and shopping carts are lazy too for kids that can walk. I made that choice often. And it was lazy on my part. Often I was just in a hurry. Those little legs don't move fast enough. But seeing kids that can walk in strollers or shopping carts is not nearly as funny as a kid on a leash. So I don't usually laugh. Unless the kid is 15.
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I'm really glad you wrote "inssert sarcasm", because I would have never understood your ****ty tone. I never knew parenting was supposed to be easy. It it's about ease, might I suggest a shock collar for the child, or maybe a choke chain. Neither are permanently damaging and can provide excellent obedience.
Well thank god you took that to a useless hyperbolic place, otherwise you might have gotten away with not sounding pissy.
Hyperbolic? I don't understand. If I was using hyperbole, I would have said "insert hyperbolic scenario". Besides, it's a valid point. If all that matters is making it easier to manage our children, explain to me why we can't use choke collars. All it does is apply an uncomfortable pressure to the throat the harder they pull. No bruising or scratching. Or how about a gentle leader. That would be perfect if a choke chain made you uncomforable. Just wrap it around their face and everytime they pull against the leash, they turn their own head.
Seriously, are you suffering from low blood sugar or just trolling? First you assume the use of a leash for children and a choke collar would be the same. I can't imagine anyone would use a harness and a leash for a child thinking that it would somehow modify their behavior or enhance their ability to judge whether or not they should run off. A child on a leash is merely kept from running off, not taught a lesson.
Second, a chock collar for a dog is at best shocking and disturbing for the animal. It's a mild form of trauma that should only be used for dogs who when no other option has worked- and then it should be used carefully. At worst, it's painful if misused. Neither of those are the intended, or really even expected, outcomes for using a leash on a child.
Now if you really think the difference between the two methods isn't that severe, feel free to make yourself sound more ridiculous.
Like I said, where is the lesson then. If you are going to leash the child and never teach them a lesson, I guess the leash stays on for a while.
Second, of course the shock collar is a last resort. Are you telling me that you are using the leash as a first resort? If you are going to use a shock collar on a kid, there is no reason to turn it up to the highest settings. Most come with at least 9 different strengths. Try adjusting by the weight of the child in relation to the recommended setting for particular breeds of dogs. For instance, if they are a toddler. Go with setting 1 or 2. If it's a 5 year old, go with the Golden Retriever setting of 5. If the 5 year old is obese, go Great Dane setting. Gotta save those kids.0 -
I'm really glad you wrote "inssert sarcasm", because I would have never understood your ****ty tone. I never knew parenting was supposed to be easy. It it's about ease, might I suggest a shock collar for the child, or maybe a choke chain. Neither are permanently damaging and can provide excellent obedience.
Well thank god you took that to a useless hyperbolic place, otherwise you might have gotten away with not sounding pissy.
Hyperbolic? I don't understand. If I was using hyperbole, I would have said "insert hyperbolic scenario". Besides, it's a valid point. If all that matters is making it easier to manage our children, explain to me why we can't use choke collars. All it does is apply an uncomfortable pressure to the throat the harder they pull. No bruising or scratching. Or how about a gentle leader. That would be perfect if a choke chain made you uncomforable. Just wrap it around their face and everytime they pull against the leash, they turn their own head.
Seriously, are you suffering from low blood sugar or just trolling? First you assume the use of a leash for children and a choke collar would be the same. I can't imagine anyone would use a harness and a leash for a child thinking that it would somehow modify their behavior or enhance their ability to judge whether or not they should run off. A child on a leash is merely kept from running off, not taught a lesson.
Second, a chock collar for a dog is at best shocking and disturbing for the animal. It's a mild form of trauma that should only be used for dogs who when no other option has worked- and then it should be used carefully. At worst, it's painful if misused. Neither of those are the intended, or really even expected, outcomes for using a leash on a child.
Now if you really think the difference between the two methods isn't that severe, feel free to make yourself sound more ridiculous.
Like I said, where is the lesson then. If you are going to leash the child and never teach them a lesson, I guess the leash stays on for a while.
Second, of course the shock collar is a last resort. Are you telling me that you are using the leash as a first resort? If you are going to use a shock collar on a kid, there is no reason to turn it up to the highest settings. Most come with at least 9 different strengths. Try adjusting by the weight of the child in relation to the recommended setting for particular breeds of dogs. For instance, if they are a toddler. Go with setting 1 or 2. If it's a 5 year old, go with the Golden Retriever setting of 5. If the 5 year old is obese, go Great Dane setting. Gotta save those kids.
There isn't a lesson for the kid. You're being obtuse for thinking there is one. The lesson is, I'm in air port with 3 kids below the ages of 5 as a single parent (or at least alone-believe me plenty of service moms have had to do this and been grateful for a leash) and I need some assistance just getting to a gate.
As to your second question. No, I'm not saying a leash is a first resort, why would bother asking that unless you're a lazy reader? Obviously you either missed or chose to disregard what I stated very plainly: the drastic differences in those methods both in terms of purpose and results make the comparison poor.1 -
Oh, well the service mom part changed my mind. You know how I know that people who leash their kids know it's crappy, because you all are so over sensitive when some one teases you all about it.0
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Oh, well the service mom part changed my mind. You know how I know that people who leash their kids know it's crappy, because you all are so over sensitive when some one teases you all about it.
Believe it or not, I appreciate that you think it's just teasing. I'd guess there's probably not much I can say to convince you that it probably means more to other people than you intended or even expected, so I won't try. Where you find humor, light-heartedness, and satire, I suspect I would just find cruelty. I don't expect you to change; there's no reason you should have to. But I'd react the same way again because there's no reason I should have to change either.0 -
My little sister was (is) incurably curious about everything, and my mother has always said that her greatest achievement as a parent was keeping her alive until she was old enough to process and accept reason, and had developed a sense of self-preservation (we've never figured out how she managed to get a chair (and several large books) up onto the dining table to 'inspect' the light fittings...aged two and a half, in under two minutes). Mum had an elasticated wrist-leash for her, that allowed her to move some distance away, but still be 'findable', that was used only in situations where my sister's health and safety were potentially at risk, and my mother was on her own and could not give her complete attention to keeping an eye on her - large airports being the classic.
My mother hated using it, but felt that it was sometimes her only option in terms of keeping my sister safe in certain situations, explanations and reason having led only to alternative explorations. My sister's only memory of it is the small velveteen puppy that was on her end - no trauma. The 'leash' was retired as soon as my sister really understood that she needed to stay close in some situations - about three and a half. I agree that restraining a child is not ideal, but with some kids, in some situations, until they understand the importance of staying close, a physical link to the parent is the only way to keep them safe. If that link needs, situationally, to be a leash rather than a stroller or holding a hand, in the interests of keeping the child safe, so be it.
And Bahet has a really good point about how hard on the kid hand-holding is. Must remember that one.0 -
Oh, well the service mom part changed my mind. You know how I know that people who leash their kids know it's crappy, because you all are so over sensitive when some one teases you all about it.
I used to tell my kids "A joke is funny if both people think it's funny. If only 1 side thinks it's funny and the other side thinks it's mean or nasty or unwelcome teasing then it's not a joke - it's bullying." But as my kids are now 12 and 14 they have matured beyond thinking it's fun or funny to tease someone maliciously.
I'm not "over sensitive" about my decision to use a leash. If you think you or anyone else in cyber world has an opinion that I find important enough to second guess what I did to keep my children safe then you are sadly mistaken. Frankly, the ones being over sensitive and ridiculous are some in the anti-leash crowd with references to shock collars and other bits of stupidity. Do you also compare car seats to harnessing a dog in a car or play pens to crating?
You go right ahead and let your kids run around in stores. I don't care. But if I accidentally hit them with a shopping cart don't get in my face. Take a lesson out of your own playbook and control your kids.
As an aside, before you point and laugh and get all holier than though super parent about someone perhaps you should find out their situation. I have a friend who has a son who just turned 12. He's mostly non verbal autistic. When he was 2, 3, 4, he looked just like every other kid around his age. But his parents had him on a backpack and a wrist leash. they got some of the snide, rude, condescending comments. What those judgemental idiots didn't know was that M would run given half a chance. And he wouldn't stop. Just last week he got out of their house and was found a few miles away in a WalMart. That's at age 12. He knows to look both ways before crossing a street now. At 4 he didn't and no amount of some stranger saying "control your kids" would teach him. Next time you see a parent with a child on a leash how about instead of jumping to the conclusion that they are lazy you stop for half a second and think that maybe, just maybe there is a real, valid reason and no amount of your teasing, belittling, scolding, condescension, or judging is going to do any good at all - unless of course your only goal is to feel superior and self-righteous. Which, reading some of the posts on this thread, that just might be the case.1 -
Considering my dog and a two-year-old are at about the same mental stage, I don't take issue with either one being on a leash.
Besides, I'd rather see a kid on a leash than a kid running out in front of a car...or into my knees.0 -
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Considering my dog and a two-year-old are at about the same mental stage, I don't take issue with either one being on a leash.
Besides, I'd rather see a kid on a leash than a kid running out in front of a car...or into my knees.
YES!
Also agree with...well, everything Bahet said. To each their own really, but I'd rather have a safe child than one someone else finds "ridiculous" or "lazy." I used to be one of those people who found it cruel and compared them to treating their children inhumanely, but after seeing situations where they've saved a kid from hurting themselves (or worse...) whereas if that leash wasn't attached then harm was almost guaranteed? Yeah...I support any parent that chooses to use them.
We were at Universal Studios last year and I saw a guy with a little puppy backpack leash on his son. His son was pretty mild-mannered during the entire performance we were watching, didn't make a sound or even seem interested. Then the music came on. And the guys on stilts and in costumes in their little parade cars started dancing and driving. The kid immediately darted out to join, and got as far as the leash let him. He was going for the guy on the stilts, who I'm pretty sure could have easily crushed that poor kid. Also, as far as theme parks go, people are downright jerks, I've come to find. They don't care that you have a child walking with you, or you're pushing a stroller, in a wheelchair, on crutches, have a walker, or anything else that slows them down on their way to get on that oh-so-important roller coaster. Your children mean absolutely nothing to them, and they will separate and pummel them if they're in the way. A leash makes it so that you at least cannot get separated from your child during that madness. Plus if someone pummels them, you're so close that you can possibly get a good look at them for later retribution.
Actually even this morning, I saw a little girl on one of those leashes when I went to my usual walking and jogging track. The entire track is hilly--there are no guard-rails, and some of the hills are pretty steep and almost completely vertical in one area that leads into a water retention area. I've seen teenagers fall before and get hurt there, because they weren't paying attention, so I can definitely see why a parent would like some extra safety with their kids walking that track.
No, I don't advocate leaving a kid on a leash in the backyard all day. I honestly have never seen someone walking around their house with their child attached to it.1 -
I mean listen, there are people out there doing MONSTROUS things to their children. Disgusting things that make you doubt humanity as a whole. You know what I mean, no reason to list it here.
If the worst thing a person is doing is putting their kids on a leash for their own safety they still get marked down in the "good parent" column. No question in my mind.0 -
I mean listen, there are people out there doing MONSTROUS things to their children. Disgusting things that make you doubt humanity as a whole. You know what I mean, no reason to list it here.
If the worst thing a person is doing is putting their kids on a leash for their own safety they still get marked down in the "good parent" column. No question in my mind.
Brett, you are truly the voice of reason. You are absolutely correct.
Thank you, you're freakin' awesome!!!0 -
I've never even heard of this as an issue before, I just thought leashes were normal.
I've never heard anyone ever mention anything about them, or look at them sideways :L
They're pretty commonplace are they not?
How can they be "cruel" and "inhumane" when they are designed to fit a child, be comfortable on a child, and keep a child safe?
Also, I don't see how it's lazy, you can be the best parent ever and kids are impulsive - even if they know it's wrong to wander off sometimes they'll just see something and go for it.
Is it lazy to push a baby in a pram? Should you physically carry that baby everywhere? Does it make your baby feel trapped and have issues later in life if they sleep in a cot with bars so they don't fall out?
Don't think so...leashes are for safety, not torture...yeesh.1 -
If I have to keep my well-behaved dog on leash, I think parents should have to keep unruly children on leash. I don't enjoy children and enjoy them even less when they barreling into me, or if they come sprinting up to my dog and throw their arms around her neck. She doesn't care, but I do. People don't want to deal with my dog, I don't want to deal with their children. :-)
And yes, I know not all children are heathens, but I still don't enjoy interacting with any of them. ;-)0 -
And yes, I know not all children are heathens, but I still don't enjoy interacting with any of them. ;-)
I'll drink to that, sista.0 -
I only take people who don't like children seriously if they are currently attempting to build a time machine so they can go back in time and abort themselves.0
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Ok, since I still can't figure out the multiple quote thing, let me respond to everyone in kind. First off, I apologize is anyone is offended by my remarks about shock collars and choke chains. I often debate with RL friends of FB who tend to know my personality and my odd sense of humor and it is my fault for expecting everyone to get it.
Next, I am hardly being self-righteous, I admitted in the very first post that my young sons can be more than a handful. I just said there is noway I am putting a frickin leash on my child and suggested an alternative like chasing children. Never once told anyone not to do it. And I'm not the type of person who would shoot people dirty looks if they did.
That being said, everyone gave me these examples of severely autistic or hyperactive children how have mental disorders as a reason for leashes on kids. They are a fraction, a tiny minority compared to that of normal children. If a child with emotional problems consistenly bangs their own head against the wall in a rocking motion and the parents put a helment on them, do you also put a helment on your normal child just in case.
But all of those rare incidences of actual NEED of a leash is betrayed when someone told me "well when your kid gets loose and I hit them with my cart, I'll just tell you to control your kids!", because you are using those rare examples to leash children who are exhibiting normal child behavior.
And yes, after talking to some friends, one of them who was leashed as a kid (he was the libertarian mayor canidate in Indy), he diefinatley remembers, so don't fool yourself into thinking they don't.
As to two year olds having the same mentality as dogs, maybe you are right.......but let's be honest.....no one makes a 2 year old walk at the grocery store unless you have 7 hours to kill...they are slow. The kids we see being leashed are no longer toddlers and are beginnning too understand right from wrong and discipline. So if you are using a leash everytime you leave the house and not in these extenuating circumstances like airports or with mentally challenged chilren, how is it helping the child. You might save them from what i guess is the ever so dangerous grocery stores we go to, but when they go to day care or kindergarten, do you think the teachers are going to leash your kids?
And finally, as to what Brett said and to the people who agreed with him. I never once said it was inhumane or evil, but subconsciously you did relate that it was indeed not too your liking. "If that is the worst thing you do" is not often attributed to good things. We say it if we get in an accident, stub our toes, bounce a check, "Well if that's the worst that happens," it will be ok. How about if it never happened, wouldn't that be better?0 -
Adiran, maybe it would be more clear if you stated what you think the harm or problem is? There aren't any adverse effects by using a leash on a child (to either the parent or the child)-at least not by default. I'm sure it could be used incorrectly and abused, but we can make the same statement about play pens or cribs.
You seem to dislike it on principle, which is fine. You're allowed. But I guess I would have expected such an emphatic preference to be based on something more concrete than a visceral and general "don't treat kids like dogs" response. Perhaps I'm not interpreting your true objections correctly?1
