God Damn America
Replies
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I live a very good life. We make a good income, live in a much larger than average house, own a rental property, have good insurance, and have much more in savings than most people. I cannot complain about my quality of life. BUT I don't live in a bubble. I know of people who have no insurance and are sick and can't see a doctor. I know elderly retired couples who, after 40 years of marriage, got divorced simply because one of them fell ill and they couldn't afford the medical bills and didn't want to bankrupt the other. I know of children who eat a slice of bread for lunch if they are lucky enough to have anything. I know of parents who have their 10yo home watching their 8yo because they have to work but can't afford daycare. I know women who had abortions of much wanted babies because they lost their job the same time they got pregnant and couldn't afford the cost of the pregnancy. I know kids who have to take turns sitting in school because there aren't enough desks for all the students. I know war veterans who when they went for help with PTSD were turned away because once they got out they had no insurance.
Just because I am personally not suffering doesn't mean I can't get upset that so many others are. Things would be much better for them if they were citizens of other countries. For me it would be pretty similar to the way things are here. So to tell me to leave doesn't change anything for me. I'd still have a similar life and I'd still know all those people who are suffering here. For them, emigrating isn't merely "difficult".
Some here want to trash anyone who says other countries have a better standard of living for their citizens. Why? How about telling us what makes America so much better than England or Germany? I'm not talking about comparing America to some place like Nigeria where very few of the people who say "Other countries are doing it better" would even put on their top 50 list of good countries to live in.
The Statue of Liberty has a plaque that says "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
But we don't live by that motto anymore. Now it's "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore and we'll tell them to hurry up and die faster and shut up and get a job you filthy loser." The door isn't golden anymore.
:drinker:
I lived in Germany as well off and on for 4 years. Great country. As is England I'm sure. But many of the nations we are mentioning that are beating us in some areas is a fact. And whether or not you agree with the way our nation uses it's military, you have to also consider that S. Korea, Gemany, Japan and countless other nations can spend a larger percentage of their economy on education and such because we have spent trillions of our tax dollars not only defending their borders for them, but boosting their economies with our presence. Ask any German if they like us still being there. It's a no. Ask them if they want us to leave. It's a hell no.0 -
That depends on who you ask, where you are, and what their reasons are. Most of the reasons they don't want us there are the "loud, obnoxious American" things. We lived in the center unit of a triplex. Across the street were 2 older women who spoke no English. Next door to them was a slightly younger couple 9probably 50s, maybe early 60s) and she spoke decent English. The year we were there was the year it got ridiculously pounded by snow. Most of the Germans where we were (Ramstein /Kaiserslautern area) didn't even own snow shovels. They's sweep the snow. We moved from AZ so we didn't have a snow shovel. I made a deal with our neighbor (both sides of us were American military) that if I could borrow her shovel I'd take care of her driveway too.I lived in Germany as well off and on for 4 years. Great country. As is England I'm sure. But many of the nations we are mentioning that are beating us in some areas is a fact. And whether or not you agree with the way our nation uses it's military, you have to also consider that S. Korea, Gemany, Japan and countless other nations can spend a larger percentage of their economy on education and such because we have spent trillions of our tax dollars not only defending their borders for them, but boosting their economies with our presence. Ask any German if they like us still being there. It's a no. Ask them if they want us to leave. It's a hell no.
As I'm sure you know, they are very strict about removing snow there. I was looking forward to the first snowfall figuring I'd be getting up at 6 and by 6:30 I could go shovel the walk for the elderly ladies. Nope. As I was barely opening my eyes to get some coffee I raised the rolladens and saw that their walk was done and they were already back inside. I did get our drive and the neighbor who lent me the shovel. The single 20 something very fit military guy on the other side didn't shovel. I don't recall what happened but I had to go back inside and didn't get to his walk. He never shovelled it. We got snow probably a dozen or more times that winter of a significant amount and he never once shovelled his walk.
I did manage to get the elderly ladies one time. I guess they weren't feeling well and their German neighbor was headed over to do their walk the same time as me so we got it all taken care of. I intentionally went out of my way to not leave that distaste of Americans in the opinions of the German people. I know I succeeded but idiots like our neighbor sure didn't make it easy to fix.
If you were over there for 4 years I'm guessing military. If so you might remember the AFN commercials where local nationals are going about their days nice and peacefully. Then loud, obnoxious people start to show up drunk, littering, and being disrespectful. The nationals say "Looks like the military is back from maneuvers." and the point is to not act like that. Sadly, that message doesn't sink in for many. If Americans didn't earn the "obnoxious" reputation to the citizens of the country they are in then they wouldn't have any reason to want us to leave.0 -
That depends on who you ask, where you are, and what their reasons are. Most of the reasons they don't want us there are the "loud, obnoxious American" things. We lived in the center unit of a triplex. Across the street were 2 older women who spoke no English. Next door to them was a slightly younger couple 9probably 50s, maybe early 60s) and she spoke decent English. The year we were there was the year it got ridiculously pounded by snow. Most of the Germans where we were (Ramstein /Kaiserslautern area) didn't even own snow shovels. They's sweep the snow. We moved from AZ so we didn't have a snow shovel. I made a deal with our neighbor (both sides of us were American military) that if I could borrow her shovel I'd take care of her driveway too.I lived in Germany as well off and on for 4 years. Great country. As is England I'm sure. But many of the nations we are mentioning that are beating us in some areas is a fact. And whether or not you agree with the way our nation uses it's military, you have to also consider that S. Korea, Gemany, Japan and countless other nations can spend a larger percentage of their economy on education and such because we have spent trillions of our tax dollars not only defending their borders for them, but boosting their economies with our presence. Ask any German if they like us still being there. It's a no. Ask them if they want us to leave. It's a hell no.
As I'm sure you know, they are very strict about removing snow there. I was looking forward to the first snowfall figuring I'd be getting up at 6 and by 6:30 I could go shovel the walk for the elderly ladies. Nope. As I was barely opening my eyes to get some coffee I raised the rolladens and saw that their walk was done and they were already back inside. I did get our drive and the neighbor who lent me the shovel. The single 20 something very fit military guy on the other side didn't shovel. I don't recall what happened but I had to go back inside and didn't get to his walk. He never shovelled it. We got snow probably a dozen or more times that winter of a significant amount and he never once shovelled his walk.
I did manage to get the elderly ladies one time. I guess they weren't feeling well and their German neighbor was headed over to do their walk the same time as me so we got it all taken care of. I intentionally went out of my way to not leave that distaste of Americans in the opinions of the German people. I know I succeeded but idiots like our neighbor sure didn't make it easy to fix.
If you were over there for 4 years I'm guessing military. If so you might remember the AFN commercials where local nationals are going about their days nice and peacefully. Then loud, obnoxious people start to show up drunk, littering, and being disrespectful. The nationals say "Looks like the military is back from maneuvers." and the point is to not act like that. Sadly, that message doesn't sink in for many. If Americans didn't earn the "obnoxious" reputation to the citizens of the country they are in then they wouldn't have any reason to want us to leave.
I agree that american soldiers can be obnoxious. Young men, full of testosterone, often drunk looking for a fight and to get laid. But.....what do you think russians would be like if they occupied German, or Turks, or Georgians, or any other military? Young men tend to be the same everywhere, especially military men.0 -
That depends on who you ask, where you are, and what their reasons are. Most of the reasons they don't want us there are the "loud, obnoxious American" things. We lived in the center unit of a triplex. Across the street were 2 older women who spoke no English. Next door to them was a slightly younger couple 9probably 50s, maybe early 60s) and she spoke decent English. The year we were there was the year it got ridiculously pounded by snow. Most of the Germans where we were (Ramstein /Kaiserslautern area) didn't even own snow shovels. They's sweep the snow. We moved from AZ so we didn't have a snow shovel. I made a deal with our neighbor (both sides of us were American military) that if I could borrow her shovel I'd take care of her driveway too.I lived in Germany as well off and on for 4 years. Great country. As is England I'm sure. But many of the nations we are mentioning that are beating us in some areas is a fact. And whether or not you agree with the way our nation uses it's military, you have to also consider that S. Korea, Gemany, Japan and countless other nations can spend a larger percentage of their economy on education and such because we have spent trillions of our tax dollars not only defending their borders for them, but boosting their economies with our presence. Ask any German if they like us still being there. It's a no. Ask them if they want us to leave. It's a hell no.
As I'm sure you know, they are very strict about removing snow there. I was looking forward to the first snowfall figuring I'd be getting up at 6 and by 6:30 I could go shovel the walk for the elderly ladies. Nope. As I was barely opening my eyes to get some coffee I raised the rolladens and saw that their walk was done and they were already back inside. I did get our drive and the neighbor who lent me the shovel. The single 20 something very fit military guy on the other side didn't shovel. I don't recall what happened but I had to go back inside and didn't get to his walk. He never shovelled it. We got snow probably a dozen or more times that winter of a significant amount and he never once shovelled his walk.
I did manage to get the elderly ladies one time. I guess they weren't feeling well and their German neighbor was headed over to do their walk the same time as me so we got it all taken care of. I intentionally went out of my way to not leave that distaste of Americans in the opinions of the German people. I know I succeeded but idiots like our neighbor sure didn't make it easy to fix.
If you were over there for 4 years I'm guessing military. If so you might remember the AFN commercials where local nationals are going about their days nice and peacefully. Then loud, obnoxious people start to show up drunk, littering, and being disrespectful. The nationals say "Looks like the military is back from maneuvers." and the point is to not act like that. Sadly, that message doesn't sink in for many. If Americans didn't earn the "obnoxious" reputation to the citizens of the country they are in then they wouldn't have any reason to want us to leave.
I agree that american soldiers can be obnoxious. Young men, full of testosterone, often drunk looking for a fight and to get laid. But.....what do you think russians would be like if they occupied German, or Turks, or Georgians, or any other military? Young men tend to be the same everywhere, especially military men.
Not just military men. I was a foreign exchange student with AFS to Germany for the summer of 1970. Most of the time we lived with our individual families, with no contact with the other American students. However, at the end of the summer before we returned home, the City-State of Bremen hosted a 3-day gathering of all 170+ American students (17-18 years old) who were getting together for the first time after completing their summer experiences. In a country with no real drinking age limit.
Bad judgement.0 -
I love my country and wouldn't consider living anywhere else. We are responsibile for our country and how we live. If you are not satisfied with the way our politicians are working, vote them out and get new ones. I do believe it would help our country if we had term limits so we wouldn't have the "professional" politicians whose only concern is staying in office.
we need to kick *kitten* and take names, we have allowed this country to drift away from the constitution and the founding principles. to get back on line people need to take pride in their county and theirselves again. No one is ENTITLED to have free housing, free food, free money, free medical. You earn it or work for it.
Our military was once the greatest in the world and so was our education system. This has all gone down the tubes because of personal agendas of people that we keep electing and the apathy of the general populace.
Take pride, stand up for what is right.
:drinker:
Stands up to applaud!!!:drinker:0 -
I would not live in the USA if someone paid me......
Coming from an American who lived in another country for 10 years, I would never lived in another country other than the U.S., even if they paid me to. Never again. I have seen poverty to it's fullest extent, corruption, dealt with corrupt police and military. People who complain about petty things don't realize how good they have it in the U.S. The U.S. is still a GREAT country, what the fúck are you talking about? Sure, the healthcare system and the education system needs to be revised and probably completely reformed so we are not raising complete idiots but at least our children have the opportunity to have an education. But nonetheless we have a lot.
Do you realize the hell other children in other countries go through? Child labor, child prostitution, etc. I mean if you have never left the country and have never step foot in a foreign country (and being in a foreign country for 5 days doesn't count) then you would realize all the benefits you have as a U.S. citizen.
And to whomever said " I agree that american soldiers can be obnoxious. Young men, full of testosterone, often drunk looking for a fight and to get laid. But.....what do you think russians would be like if they occupied German, or Turks, or Georgians, or any other military? Young men tend to be the same everywhere, especially military men.".
I know many 20 yr olds centered, brave, and young men in Afghanistan right now putting their lift at risk for Americans. They are not just getting drunk and starting a fights. As a matter of fact, my husband is in the military and I have yet to meet a more responsible and brave person.
Do you realize what military families go through? All the sacrifices soldiers and their families go through so they can protect this country. How dare you sit there and say that. Sure, you'll find some idiotic soldiers from time to time but to generalize and just post that is just pitiful. Until people are exposed to the true sacrifices families and soldiers go through, unfortunately we will always run into comments like these.0 -
I would not live in the USA if someone paid me......
Thank You, we are at quota for people on high horses, so we won't be needing any extras but thanks for letting us know anyway
Love it!0 -
I would not live in the USA if someone paid me......
Coming from an American who lived in another country for 10 years, I would never lived in another country other than the U.S., even if they paid me to. Never again. I have seen poverty to it's fullest extent, corruption, dealt with corrupt police and military. People who complain about petty things don't realize how good they have it in the U.S. The U.S. is still a GREAT country, what the fúck are you talking about? Sure, the healthcare system and the education system needs to be revised and probably completely reformed so we are not raising complete idiots but at least our children have the opportunity to have an education. But nonetheless we have a lot.
Do you realize the hell other children in other countries go through? Child labor, child prostitution, etc. I mean if you have never left the country and have never step foot in a foreign country (and being in a foreign country for 5 days doesn't count) then you would realize all the benefits you have as a U.S. citizen.
I am Canadian......and I much prefer this country over the US, for a number of reasons....hence my first comment.....0 -
"if you don't like America then you can get out"Those of you who don't like it here, feel free to spread the word world wide. Maybe I can stop taking foreign language lessons.
(Posted for ironic reasons)
On a more serious note, how many more times are you going to suggest people who are unhappy with America should leave?.
From an external pespective (over the pond) - I can't believe a country with so much material wealth let's people die of preventable diseases or that the crime rates/homeless rates/murder rates are similar to some third world countries.
If you spend half the money you do on the military on social care you could have the highest quality of life in the developed world - a shame really... so much potential, so much wasted.0 -
I think it's fair to say America has its problems. I live in Scotland, which although is part of the UK, differs from the rest as we have free personal care for over 65s. Our health service is paid for by national insurance (taxed at source). I have no problem having my tax pounds go towards this, and I really don't see why other countries don't do this. I know that if I break my leg, I'll be treated. I know that if I need medication, I can get it. And here in Scotland, I know that if I were 65 upwards, the state will support me (or at least try - I'm in social services and it's getting increasingly difficult) with necessities like washing me, helping me live at home, and if need be, provide 24-hour care. If you can afford it, you pay, and of course this is difficult - 'why should she get it for free when I have to pay', etc. But I'd much rather that, than know my fellow countrymen avoid medical treatment because they can't pay for it. I remember reading (and please correct me if I'm wrong) but a young American girl was dreading becoming an 'adult' as she was born with a medical condition, and when she turned 18 (16?) she'd be liable for costs, because as an existing condition it wouldn't be covered. Our system is by no means perfect, and I can/will complain, but I do my best to help others and as I said, I'm happy to pay out extra of my salary to support those less fortunate - times are hard enough without people being afraid to seek medical treatment. I think that's a basic human right, and apologies, but more so (as someone said earlier) than that of bearing arms.0
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I don't think anyone said America is the worst place to live. But in terms of how we care for our fellow citizens, it's definitely not the best. We have child labor and child prostitution too. The difference is the labor is outsourced to sweatshops in China where those children are making the shoes for $0.50 that we spend hundreds on so the CEO can hoard more money and then complain that poor people are sucking up too much welfare and need to get a job.I would not live in the USA if someone paid me......
Coming from an American who lived in another country for 10 years, I would never lived in another country other than the U.S., even if they paid me to. Never again. I have seen poverty to it's fullest extent, corruption, dealt with corrupt police and military. People who complain about petty things don't realize how good they have it in the U.S. The U.S. is still a GREAT country, what the fúck are you talking about? Sure, the healthcare system and the education system needs to be revised and probably completely reformed so we are not raising complete idiots but at least our children have the opportunity to have an education. But nonetheless we have a lot.
Do you realize the hell other children in other countries go through? Child labor, child prostitution, etc. I mean if you have never left the country and have never step foot in a foreign country (and being in a foreign country for 5 days doesn't count) then you would realize all the benefits you have as a U.S. citizen.
And to whomever said " I agree that american soldiers can be obnoxious. Young men, full of testosterone, often drunk looking for a fight and to get laid. But.....what do you think russians would be like if they occupied German, or Turks, or Georgians, or any other military? Young men tend to be the same everywhere, especially military men.".
I know many 20 yr olds centered, brave, and young men in Afghanistan right now putting their lift at risk for Americans. They are not just getting drunk and starting a fights. As a matter of fact, my husband is in the military and I have yet to meet a more responsible and brave person.
Do you realize what military families go through? All the sacrifices soldiers and their families go through so they can protect this country. How dare you sit there and say that. Sure, you'll find some idiotic soldiers from time to time but to generalize and just post that is just pitiful. Until people are exposed to the true sacrifices families and soldiers go through, unfortunately we will always run into comments like these.
I also agree with Adrian that "American soldiers can be obnoxious. Young men, full of testosterone, often drunk looking for a fight and to get laid. But.....what do you think russians would be like if they occupied German, or Turks, or Georgians, or any other military? Young men tend to be the same everywhere, especially military men." Note the words "can be" is not the same as "are". And before you start to chastize me that I don't realize what military families go through or what it's like to have a spouse in a war zone please note that my husband retired from the reserves after 22 eyars. During that time he went to Desert Storm in '91 and Iraqi Freedom for 14 months in '03/04. He worked as a contractor in Kuwait for 18 months in '06/07. He now works for the government and spent 9 months in Afghanistan from Feb-Oct last year and will be leaving for another 6-9 months at the end of next month. By the end of this year my DH will have been in the ME for 50 months of our 19 year marriage. I know ALL about the sacrifices military families make. The difference is that because he's a reservist/contractor/government employee I don't get the credit or support that active duty military spouses do.0 -
From an external pespective (over the pond) - I can't believe a country with so much material wealth let's people die of preventable diseases or that the crime rates/homeless rates/murder rates are similar to some third world countries.
Do you have any sources for those claims or are you just spouting the same old standard elitist anti-American rhetoric bull****?0 -
The news is a pretty good source. Our local news the other day told of an area 16yo girl who needs a lung transplant. In order to even get on the list the family needs to come up with $80,000. They are literally begging people for money. I can also think of a few cases where people died sitting in the waiting room for far too long and more than a few cases of people who find out they have cancer but because they don't have insurance they get no treatment. I know one such woman who is staying with a very abusive spouse simply because if she leaves him she'll die because her cancer would be a pre-existing condition so she'd have no insurance.
From an external pespective (over the pond) - I can't believe a country with so much material wealth let's people die of preventable diseases or that the crime rates/homeless rates/murder rates are similar to some third world countries.
Do you have any sources for those claims or are you just spouting the same old standard elitist anti-American rhetoric bull****?
But if you want actual news sources here's a few:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171
http://www.healthpaconline.net/health-care-issues.htm0 -
Well, for a start from the CIA (you do know who the CIA is I assume?) Gini rating the US is below Iran, Cambodia & Nigeria.
From an external pespective (over the pond) - I can't believe a country with so much material wealth let's people die of preventable diseases or that the crime rates/homeless rates/murder rates are similar to some third world countries.
Do you have any sources for those claims or are you just spouting the same old standard elitist anti-American rhetoric bull****?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
Crime rates (below, intentional homicide seems like a good indicator)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate (Higher than Lebanon, Czech Republic, Georgia & Latvia (and countless more).
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/6694894/NZs-preventable-death-rate-sixth-worst
US ranked worst out of all industrialized nations for preventable deaths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
Look who is at the top - do you need more?.
I'm not trying to bash America - just highlighting how badly you treat the sick and poor (compared to the rest of the developed world).0 -
I'm going to ignore your anecdotal "evidence" and address the links:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917
From the article: "It was released by Physicians for a National Health Program, which favors government-backed or 'single-payer' health insurance." Note that one of the criticisms of the study referenced in the article is that they didn't look at how long people were uninsured.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171
Ok, if the argument is that sometimes people make bad decisions that lead to their own deaths, you win. The guy received medical care and received a prescription for medicine that would have saved his life. Plus, as this very article points out, a routine tooth extraction costs $80. Honestly, it's his own fault, and if the criteria here is that nobody in the United States is allowed to die because of stupidity, then I concede we have failed as a nation.
http://www.healthpaconline.net/health-care-issues.htm
You realize that HealthPAC is a partisan organization whose sole purpose is to advance Universal health care, right? If we want to start looking at problems with health care systems in general....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lynn-davidson/2007/08/27/french-health-care-expert-frances-system-broken-should-copy-us-media-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3423159.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7071660.stm
http://stanfordreview.org/article/public-healthcare-in-uk-faces-major-problems/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18007951
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-06/politics/canadian.health.care.system_1_government-run-health-health-care-system-mayo-clinic?_s=PM:POLITICS
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-681801.html0 -
"if you don't like America then you can get out"Those of you who don't like it here, feel free to spread the word world wide. Maybe I can stop taking foreign language lessons.
(Posted for ironic reasons)
On a more serious note, how many more times are you going to suggest people who are unhappy with America should leave?.
From an external pespective (over the pond) - I can't believe a country with so much material wealth let's people die of preventable diseases or that the crime rates/homeless rates/murder rates are similar to some third world countries.
If you spend half the money you do on the military on social care you could have the highest quality of life in the developed world - a shame really... so much potential, so much wasted.
I notice that none of the "if you are unhappy with America, leave" crowd left after the 2008 election. Even though they have not stopped whining incessantly about how unhappy they are.
Criticizing America--OK now?0 -
I'm going to ignore your anecdotal "evidence" and address the links:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917
From the article: "It was released by Physicians for a National Health Program, which favors government-backed or 'single-payer' health insurance." Note that one of the criticisms of the study referenced in the article is that they didn't look at how long people were uninsured.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171
Ok, if the argument is that sometimes people make bad decisions that lead to their own deaths, you win. The guy received medical care and received a prescription for medicine that would have saved his life. Plus, as this very article points out, a routine tooth extraction costs $80. Honestly, it's his own fault, and if the criteria here is that nobody in the United States is allowed to die because of stupidity, then I concede we have failed as a nation.
http://www.healthpaconline.net/health-care-issues.htm
You realize that HealthPAC is a partisan organization whose sole purpose is to advance Universal health care, right? If we want to start looking at problems with health care systems in general....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lynn-davidson/2007/08/27/french-health-care-expert-frances-system-broken-should-copy-us-media-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3423159.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7071660.stm
http://stanfordreview.org/article/public-healthcare-in-uk-faces-major-problems/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18007951
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-06/politics/canadian.health.care.system_1_government-run-health-health-care-system-mayo-clinic?_s=PM:POLITICS
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-681801.html
Google is your friend too. If you don't like the specific links I gave showing that approximately 45,000 Americans die every year from a lack of health care then go find one of the other 812,000 links that you would like better. Perhaps Harvard or politifact or scientificamerican or the ama would be better for you?0 -
You do appreciate the irony in linking a series of news articles to respond to somebody (after you bashed them for using anecdotal evidence) do you not?.I'm going to ignore your anecdotal "evidence" and address the links:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/17/us-usa-healthcare-deaths-idUSTRE58G6W520090917
From the article: "It was released by Physicians for a National Health Program, which favors government-backed or 'single-payer' health insurance." Note that one of the criticisms of the study referenced in the article is that they didn't look at how long people were uninsured.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171
Ok, if the argument is that sometimes people make bad decisions that lead to their own deaths, you win. The guy received medical care and received a prescription for medicine that would have saved his life. Plus, as this very article points out, a routine tooth extraction costs $80. Honestly, it's his own fault, and if the criteria here is that nobody in the United States is allowed to die because of stupidity, then I concede we have failed as a nation.
http://www.healthpaconline.net/health-care-issues.htm
You realize that HealthPAC is a partisan organization whose sole purpose is to advance Universal health care, right? If we want to start looking at problems with health care systems in general....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124958049241511735.html
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lynn-davidson/2007/08/27/french-health-care-expert-frances-system-broken-should-copy-us-media-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3423159.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7071660.stm
http://stanfordreview.org/article/public-healthcare-in-uk-faces-major-problems/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18007951
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-07-06/politics/canadian.health.care.system_1_government-run-health-health-care-system-mayo-clinic?_s=PM:POLITICS
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-204_162-681801.html
I'm talking about large statistically significant data-sets, not bias news articles - besides, you objectively have the highest death by preventable disease rate in the developed world (along with the myriad of other points I made, most of which sourced from the CIA factbook).
Something I'd be ashamed of.0 -
Your data is not a true reflection of the United States' standing in the world because the countries you are comparing to the US are not equals in population, wealth, proximity to poor countries or governing structure.
The Gini rating does show wide income distributions, however, income in the US seems more imbalanced due to the enormous weatlh being generated by capitalism. If you look at the average Median Income per country you would see the US is only 2nd to Luxemburg.
Secondly,
Yes the US has a higher crime rate than Georgia but again you fail to mention the US is ranked 34th among 59 countries on this list. The highest country having 86 murders/100k. Comparably speaking, the US is at 4.8 murders/100k. You are not putting the numbers in their proper context.
As far as ranking worst in preventable diseases, part of the criteria used to determine this were Heart disease, Strokes, Cancer, and diabetes. The majority of these disease begin with lifestyle and in the majority of these cases the only true "preventative measure" to be taken are lifestyle changes. It is no secret Americans live a life of excesses and many ultimately pay for it with their health. This again is not a true measure of the American Health System because you could never truly compare the typical lifestyle and eating habits of an American to a French, Japanese, or Australian; all 3 of which topped the rankings.
With respect to incarceration. The United states has a very complex and thorough(at times to a fault) legal system. The US put 43 people to death in 2011. Iran put 360(on the record) to death in 2011 and they are 1/4 the size of the US by population. You also failed to mention what percent of those incarcerated in the US are illegal immigrants. As is quite known, we have a border control issue that is sure to be responsible for part of the incarcerations.
Well, for a start from the CIA (you do know who the CIA is I assume?) Gini rating the US is below Iran, Cambodia & Nigeria.
From an external pespective (over the pond) - I can't believe a country with so much material wealth let's people die of preventable diseases or that the crime rates/homeless rates/murder rates are similar to some third world countries.
Do you have any sources for those claims or are you just spouting the same old standard elitist anti-American rhetoric bull****?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
Crime rates (below, intentional homicide seems like a good indicator)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate (Higher than Lebanon, Czech Republic, Georgia & Latvia (and countless more).
http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/6694894/NZs-preventable-death-rate-sixth-worst
US ranked worst out of all industrialized nations for preventable deaths.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
Look who is at the top - do you need more?.
I'm not trying to bash America - just highlighting how badly you treat the sick and poor (compared to the rest of the developed world).0 -
You twist your logic any more and you risk spraining a frontal lobe. I say this because I care.0
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You twist your logic any more and you risk spraining a frontal lobe. I say this because I care.
lol funny yet useless. Care to elaborate?0 -
These figures are adjusted by population.Your data is not a true reflection of the United States' standing in the world because the countries you are comparing to the US are not equals in population, wealth, proximity to poor countries or governing structure.
So yes, they do count.
This is also data obtained by the CIA fact0book, an American institution.
.... so you are saying you don't have high income inequality because the people at the top earn so much?...The Gini rating does show wide income distributions, however, income in the US seems more imbalanced due to the enormous weatlh being generated by capitalism. If you look at the average Median Income per country you would see the US is only 2nd to Luxemburg.
You are aware that's what income inequality is - again the fact that American earns allot is MEANINGLESS - Norway has an equal income per capita but has much lower income inequality.
It's terrible for a first world country, all you are effectivly saying is "Americas murder rate isn't' that bad compared to Somalia" - but it is compared to any other modern western democracy.Secondly - Yes the US has a higher crime rate than Georgia but again you fail to mention the US is ranked 34th among 59 countries on this list. The highest country having 86 murders/100k. Comparably speaking, the US is at 4.8 murders/100k. You are not putting the numbers in their proper context.
This data isn't just based on obesity, it includes common health problems which result in deaths - you are the only developed nation in the world which let's poor people die of preventable illness if they don't have money.As far as ranking worst in preventable diseases, part of the criteria used to determine this were Heart disease, Strokes, Cancer, and diabetes. The majority of these disease begin with lifestyle and in the majority of these cases the only true "preventative measure" to be taken are lifestyle changes. It is no secret Americans live a life of excesses and many ultimately pay for it with their health. This again is not a true measure of the American Health System because you could never truly compare the typical lifestyle and eating habits of an American to a French, Japanese, or Australian; all 3 of which topped the rankings.
For a so called Christian nation, you couldn't be more un-Christian.
Again, saying you are better than Iran isn't exactly a claim for superiority - for a first world western developed nation you need to compare against Japan, France, England, Germany, Canada - all of which have lower crime, lower murder rates, lower prison populations & lower re-offender rates.With respect to incarceration. The United states has a very complex and thorough(at times to a fault) legal system. The US put 43 people to death in 2011. Iran put 360(on the record) to death in 2011 and they are 1/4 the size of the US by population. You also failed to mention what percent of those incarcerated in the US are illegal immigrants. As is quite known, we have a border control issue that is sure to be responsible for part of the incarcerations.
The OP is 100% correct, I'm not bashing his country - agreeing with his evaluation.
I'm just hoping the rational & intelligent people of the USA are able to enact social change for the betterment of the majority of the population - sadly I doubt it.
But hey, if you want to live the American dream - go live in Norway.
Note - Just to make a point, my country - England is much worse than Japan, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland & France for most of the same things as the USA is (but not quite to the same level) - but I'm willing to admit that my country needs to change.0 -
We have the capacity for greatness, as a whole. But we're being absorbed into mediocrity (at best) by the very folks put into place to lead. Corporations as people, religion rather than reason as a governing tool, precipitous levels of ignorance, precipitous levels of apathy, precipitous levels of selfishness, and it's a perfect storm for the country to disintegrate.
I love this country. But I'd sure love to take it back from the Guns'n'God Good 'Ol Boys hellbent on pushing us into a patriarchal caste society.0 -
AGREE!! I planned to retire outside the us. Now, I'm planning on leaving within the next 10 years and renounce my citizenship. This country means nothing to me.0
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And yes, screw the us.0
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BUMP 0 -
Don't let the door hit ya.0
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I don't plan to..you can rot in this s-hole country :-)0
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bump0
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Where are you planning to move Wicked?0
This discussion has been closed.