Don't make this blunder....

Zylayna

For anyone who has started the EM method after being on a VLCD for a while, I highly encourage you to do a full reset (eating at maintenance NOT TDEE - 15%). Here's why:

When I joined this group 8 weeks ago I somehow got it into my head that eating at TDEE -15% was good enough to lose. hmmm, well it's 8 weeks later, I've semi-stabilizied, but I'm not really losing. After talking to Kiki, she replied that if you do not do a full maintenance reset (eating at tdee with NO CUT) your body will wind up practically begging for a proper reset and may try to do it itself by making your tdee -15% cut your new maintenance. Hence you ain't gonna lose nothin'...

So...here I am after 8 weeks of EM, basically starting again at another 8 weeks of eating at TDEE to reset properly before I can cut back down. At that point my body should be able to RECOGNIZE the cut as a deficit and be willing to let go of some chubby.

Now, some of you many be experiencing loss at the tdee 15% and that's great...continue on if that is working for you. but I highly recommend that you take those diet breaks (maybe take some slightly longer ones at first) and get your metabolism running where it should be. :happy:

If you are like me and haven't quite gotten up the courage to eat at maintenance...may I simply encourage you to think very strongly about it? If you aren't seeing results or are just starting out after a VLCD, then go for TDEE. Don't waste the first 8 weeks like I did.

tangiesharp

Really good point. I never did a full reset, and I'm starting to regret that now.

CampinGal34

Wow!! I just got on here to see if anyone had ideas as to why, after 7 weeks, I was still the same! I ate at 1200 for a long time and 7 weeks ago started eating more at 1600.....then finding this group I upped to 1800. And still absolutely no progress...no weight off (or gained for that matter) no inches lost either. So, I should eat at maintance for how long? How do you know you are "stabilized" and can then add a deficit? Thanks for this post! Maybe, just maybe it will be the one thing I haven't tried to get me off a 7 month plateau!!!

Zylayna

A proper reset is a full 8 weeks minimum at maintenance calories. After the full 8 weeks, you can drop back into your cut.

If you've stabilized you will know because your weight will just bounce around the same couple of pounds (It won't really go up or down. (where I'm at now)) and your inches won't go anywhere either.

Phoenix59

I'm glad I read this after one week in! For the past week, I've been eating at a deficit. Fortunately, I get to add a calorie-dense shake from here on out for the next 8 weeks. YUM! :bigsmile:

graysmom2005

I hoping my 3 weeks of messing up my lavash servings helped me with this. I was eating a few hundred above what I thought!

TripleJ3

Thanks, I was just asking this morning when I should go up, I guess I missed the part where to eat at maintenance first. So since I am 3 weeks in eating at 15%, you do believe I should just go ahead now and eat at TDEE for 8 weeks?

I did read your post and I know that is what you are saying....but I guess I just need the reassurance that yes! Just freaking do it!! :laugh: I just don't want to constantly make changes and screw things up!

Noor13

I am thinking to do the reset as well. I think it is probably the best way to go-at least for me

Zylayna

Thanks, I was just asking this morning when I should go up, I guess I missed the part where to eat at maintenance first. So since I am 3 weeks in eating at 15%, you do believe I should just go ahead now and eat at TDEE for 8 weeks?

I did read your post and I know that is what you are saying....but I guess I just need the reassurance that yes! Just freaking do it!! :laugh: I just don't want to constantly make changes and screw things up!

I hear you on the constantly making changes trying to get it right! And don't feel bad...I totally didn't grasp the concept that I needed to start at TDEE either.

And YES, do the full 8 weeks at maintenance before you cut. After those 8 weeks you can confidently cut knowing you gave your body enough time to reset. then just make sure you take those diet breaks for a week every 4 - 6 weeks (I think that's the recommended time frame) to keep your metabolism up.

regmcc

Wow thanks for this post, I totally missed that too.. I've been eating at cut for about 4 weeks, not losing or gaining, up and down the same few lbs, trying to 'trust the process'. It is scary to think I have to eat 300 more calories! Yikes! I'm going to give it a try. How many others missed that part?

TripleJ3

Thank you! I am going to trust you and start today.

I am always up for more food!

FitterGill

Bump

nannabannana

bump
Missed that part

Phoenix59

then just make sure you take those diet breaks for a week every 4 - 6 weeks (I think that's the recommended time frame) to keep your metabolism up.

Just to clarify, I want to make sure I'm getting this right. After eating at TDEE for 8 weeks, I could then cut by 15% and eat at a deficit for 4-6 weeks. After the 4-6 weeks, take a break and go up to TDEE for a week maybe (?), then back to a deficit. Is this correct?

techmom29

Don't feel bad....I'm 9 weeks in and am in the same boat. I haven't gained or lost really anything. My waist is smaller but my legs are bigger. ugh!

I had been yo-yoing on and off for years. When i started this I was "off" the diet bandwagon for a while, with the exception of a few initial weeks on mfp at 1200. I foolishly thought that since I hadn't been in an extended period in recent history that I wouldn't have to do a reset...lol...joke's on me. But mentally, I think it was better for me to settle into this idea at my cut #. It may seems kinda a waste of time, but if it helps me stay the course for the long haul, then I guess that is a victory. I know what to expect when I go up to maintenance, and I am guessing so do you.

Zylayna

then just make sure you take those diet breaks for a week every 4 - 6 weeks (I think that's the recommended time frame) to keep your metabolism up.

Just to clarify, I want to make sure I'm getting this right. After eating at TDEE for 8 weeks, I could then cut by 15% and eat at a deficit for 4-6 weeks. After the 4-6 weeks, take a break and go up to TDEE for a week maybe (?), then back to a deficit. Is this correct?

Yup. Although how often you take a diet break can vary depending on your weight from what I've come to understand. The leaner you get the more frequent your diet breaks should be. If you are fairly lean then every 6 weeks or so. If you are bigger then every 12 - 16 weeks. I think Kiki mentions it in her posts somewhere...I just can't remember exactly where! If you can work your holidays and diet breaks around to happen at the same time, most people apparently find that quite a lovely way to do it...hehe.

FitterGill

This is really interesting. I started EMTWL about 6 weeks ago and also have been eating around 2000 cals which is my TDEE less 15% cut (using Scooby Fitness calculator). Ive been feeling really good and energised from the extra cals, following years of yo-yo dieting. BUT just really maintaining and not losing as I had hoped I would. After reading this I realise I should have done the full metabolism reset, then the cut! Doh!

Okay, going to be brave and up to TDEE at 2,400 cals (I do high burn (800+ cal workouts including lifting heavy) 4 times each week. I dont have a problem eating foods in a day, so long as I plan ahead.

Wish me luck ....

believeandtry

@jyska im in the same boat as you. 8 weeks of eating more from 1500--> 1800 netting bmr. The first time I weighed myself was 2 weeks into eating more and I had gained 2 lbs. The next time I weighed myself was week 8 and I am up 7 lbs. I don't know if i have stabilized or not! I think i will weigh myself next week to see what the heck is up. Then should i jump into maintenance? dont know what to do?! and i think if i gain any more weight my clothes will be too tight. i keep reading trust the process and boy am i fighting hard to but so mentally draining when I am up 7 lbs and am not seeing a loss... so up it?

Zylayna

@jyska im in the same boat as you. 8 weeks of eating more from 1500--> 1800 netting bmr. The first time I weighed myself was 2 weeks into eating more and I had gained 2 lbs. The next time I weighed myself was week 8 and I am up 7 lbs. I don't know if i have stabilized or not! I think i will weigh myself next week to see what the heck is up. Then should i jump into maintenance? dont know what to do?! and i think if i gain any more weight my clothes will be too tight. i keep reading trust the process and boy am i fighting hard to but so mentally draining when I am up 7 lbs and am not seeing a loss... so up it?

I have the same fear of ending up in my skivvies because nothing will fit anymore!
Based on my experience and from what I've gleaned from Kiki and this forum, YES up your calories to maintenance for 8 weeks, then drop back down to tdee - 15%. This should allow your body to reset at the proper metabolic rate so that tdee-15% will actually WORK and as a bonus you'll get that satisfactory feeling of lowering cals to lose weight after the reset (much easier to wrap our brains around) hehe.

moylie

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this. It's been over TWELVE WEEKS for me with NOOOO movement AT ALL. Ugggggh. I was getting ready to write a really b*tchy post, but glad I stumbled on yours first. I'm up 5-6 pounds from when I started this in March. I went from 1400/1500 calories to 1800/1900, and have had NO CHANGE in measurements. At least my clothes still fit, but this stagnancy is freakin' killing me. I'm doing everything I should be, but NO GO. I even got an Omron body fat analyzer, and have the same darn body fat % since I was last measured in Nov. 11. Guess I just should have done straight TDEE calories from the get go, huh? Well, this weekend sure helped me on a diet break, that's for sure. LOL.

Is there a post on this group for those of us that this program doesn't seem to be working well? I mean, theoretically the 15% cut should be working, and clearly it's not. Is it really as simple as eating at TDEE? How long do you eat at TDEE before cutting again?

rebekahgo

and as a bonus you'll get that satisfactory feeling of lowering cals to lose weight after the reset (much easier to wrap our brains around) hehe.

lol...i'm the total opposite. i'm kinda scared to up to TDEE because i'm afraid of having to cut back down later!! i'm afraid my body will revolt against a cut after having been upped.

Zylayna

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this. It's been over TWELVE WEEKS for me with NOOOO movement AT ALL. Ugggggh. I was getting ready to write a really b*tchy post, but glad I stumbled on yours first. I'm up 5-6 pounds from when I started this in March. I went from 1400/1500 calories to 1800/1900, and have had NO CHANGE in measurements. At least my clothes still fit, but this stagnancy is freakin' killing me. I'm doing everything I should be, but NO GO. I even got an Omron body fat analyzer, and have the same darn body fat % since I was last measured in Nov. 11. Guess I just should have done straight TDEE calories from the get go, huh? Well, this weekend sure helped me on a diet break, that's for sure. LOL.

Is there a post on this group for those of us that this program doesn't seem to be working well? I mean, theoretically the 15% cut should be working, and clearly it's not. Is it really as simple as eating at TDEE? How long do you eat at TDEE before cutting again?

I hear you...it is such a frustrating process but I totally believe in it...it just seems like so much common sense to me now that I understand it.

I really do think it just may be a simple as being brave enough to go to full tdee and fully reset your metabolism. If you check out the videos Kiki (I believe it's her video) talks about doing her reset for over three months and then starting her cut. (or maybe she mentioned it in a post...I've done so much reading etc I can't remember where anything is! lol)

Anyways, hers and Lucia's example are certainly the ones we should be going by and yet I'm starting to realize that many of us tried to take a short cut (most of us completely unknowingly) by eating at tdee -15% and now wonder why it's not working...:huh:

I'd honestly say that before anyone even considers throwing in the towel to make sure they fully reset their metabolism (eat at tdee for 8 weeks at least (more if you wish)) before cutting to tdee -15%. Make sure your numbers are accurate, be honest to yourself about everything...don't underestimate your activity or overestimate your food....measure everything, get a hrm (or body media fit or the like). This process just makes SENSE. We just have to get it right! And being that its such a new group, new concept we are all kinda learning as we go...

moylie

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this. It's been over TWELVE WEEKS for me with NOOOO movement AT ALL. Ugggggh. I was getting ready to write a really b*tchy post, but glad I stumbled on yours first. I'm up 5-6 pounds from when I started this in March. I went from 1400/1500 calories to 1800/1900, and have had NO CHANGE in measurements. At least my clothes still fit, but this stagnancy is freakin' killing me. I'm doing everything I should be, but NO GO. I even got an Omron body fat analyzer, and have the same darn body fat % since I was last measured in Nov. 11. Guess I just should have done straight TDEE calories from the get go, huh? Well, this weekend sure helped me on a diet break, that's for sure. LOL.

Is there a post on this group for those of us that this program doesn't seem to be working well? I mean, theoretically the 15% cut should be working, and clearly it's not. Is it really as simple as eating at TDEE? How long do you eat at TDEE before cutting again?

I hear you...it is such a frustrating process but I totally believe in it...it just seems like so much common sense to me now that I understand it.

I really do think it just may be a simple as being brave enough to go to full tdee and fully reset your metabolism. If you check out the videos Kiki (I believe it's her video) talks about doing her reset for over three months and then starting her cut. (or maybe she mentioned it in a post...I've done so much reading etc I can't remember where anything is! lol)

Anyways, hers and Lucia's example are certainly the ones we should be going by and yet I'm starting to realize that many of us tried to take a short cut (most of us completely unknowingly) by eating at tdee -15% and now wonder why it's not working...:huh:

I'd honestly say that before anyone even considers throwing in the towel to make sure they fully reset their metabolism (eat at tdee for 8 weeks at least (more if you wish)) before cutting to tdee -15%. Make sure your numbers are accurate, be honest to yourself about everything...don't underestimate your activity or overestimate your food....measure everything, get a hrm (or body media fit or the like). This process just makes SENSE. We just have to get it right! And being that its such a new group, new concept we are all kinda learning as we go...

I have been doing everything, per protocol of this group: Eating 40/30/30, netting BMR, using Scooby for my numbers. I'm running 3x week training for a half-marathon. I've only been lifting 1-2 times a week, so I know it's not water retention for that, because I'm not lifting enough right now. When running season winds down, I'll up the lifting, and get serious about it at least 3x week. In the beginning of 2012, I had stalled at eating 1400/1500 for over three months. I thought upping to 1800/1900 would do the trick, but instead I've gained 5 pounds and have continued being stalled. Everybody says to throw out the scale, but the simple fact is that my measurements haven't changed either. Having a hard time believing my metabolism is so screwed up. I'm frightened to jump up to TDEE, because my head/heart can't take gaining another 5 pounds because of it.

regmcc

Ok so I have done it, I have set my goal to my TDEE and am going to give it a try. When I first started upping my cals about a month ago it was so scary or go up to 1800. Somehow I missed the part about resetting metabolism and eating at TDEE, I just saw 'eat at 'TDEE-15%' so I did that. Even if I had seen the parts about resetting metabolism and eating at TDEE (for me 2106) I don't know if I would have had the courage to jump that high anyways lol.so here I go, I'm jumping lol....sccared but determined to get rid of that last 10 lbs. It's too bad summer is coming and I may be gaining weight but by fall I should have this under control and be the healthiest I've been in years. I do 45 minutes of exercise 4 or 5 times a week (Jillian Micheals and my elliptical) and walk my dog daily. The extra cals are scary but with the nicer weather I can be a bit more active and maybe I won't gain alot during the reset. Wish me luck!

Zylayna

I have been doing everything, per protocol of this group: Eating 40/30/30, netting BMR, using Scooby for my numbers. I'm running 3x week training for a half-marathon. I've only been lifting 1-2 times a week, so I know it's not water retention for that, because I'm not lifting enough right now. When running season winds down, I'll up the lifting, and get serious about it at least 3x week. In the beginning of 2012, I had stalled at eating 1400/1500 for over three months. I thought upping to 1800/1900 would do the trick, but instead I've gained 5 pounds and have continued being stalled. Everybody says to throw out the scale, but the simple fact is that my measurements haven't changed either. Having a hard time believing my metabolism is so screwed up. I'm frightened to jump up to TDEE, because my head/heart can't take gaining another 5 pounds because of it.

*HUGS* I know it's hard to even consider gaining one more pound...I feel the same way. It sounds like you had the same response I did (up 5 pounds and stabilized there. Even my inches went up a bit and stabilized.) If you aren't ready mentally to do a full reset and accept the gains that might come with it, you may need to work up to that yet. But...if you think you can do it and stick to it....I encourage you to do so. I know if I didn't attempt this reset I would wonder for the rest of my life if I sold myself short and that would just kill me inside...more so than gaining a few more pounds will.

We are here to support you, but really think about that reset if you are finding that tdee - 15% isn't working for you. Don't sell yourself short, but make sure you are emotionally and mentally ready for it when you start.

Raynn1

Im beginning to think I am in the same boat.. 10 weeks and basically havent changed..But I honestly dont know if I can handle another 8 weeks of gaining to eat more

My only problem is how I calculate my TDEE... If I use the basic Scooby calculator it tells me TDEE is 2800. If I use the one with the BF% from the Calvert calculator, TDEE is 2600

One is up only 200 cals from where I am now, the other being 400... No idea which one is "right"

SweatpantsRebellion

Wow - there are so many of us. I went straight to TDEE-15 also. I've decided to do a maintenance week, but now I'm wondering if I'm in the same boat and need to do a full reset. I've never done that. And it's true - everything seems to be grinding to a halt. It's scary to think of going up - especially since I've made decent progress. I definitely wouldn't want to put on anything that's come off. But if I get the number right, I shouldn't. That's the scary part for me. I *think* I should be at 2400 calories for maintenance - a bit higher probably once I'm back into running (bum pinky toe right now - on forced break).

So it sounds like there is a group of us that need to do this. Would it be easier for us to do this together - perhaps have a running thread to check in and stay accountable to the reset. I know that I will want to cheat and go back to the cut as soon as possible. Anyone else feel that way?

Zylayna

Im beginning to think I am in the same boat.. 10 weeks and basically havent changed..But I honestly dont know if I can handle another 8 weeks of gaining to eat more

My only problem is how I calculate my TDEE... If I use the basic Scooby calculator it tells me TDEE is 2800. If I use the one with the BF% from the Calvert calculator, TDEE is 2600

One is up only 200 cals from where I am now, the other being 400... No idea which one is "right"

Calculating accurately is such a hard thing isn't it? In all honesty, I don't really know the answer to your question except that if you have the money (and are in a location that supports it) get a Body Media Fit. I finally got one myself a week ago cause the numbers were driving me CRAZY!! I need to know they are as accurate as possible! hehe Now, with the BMF, I know (within a small percentage of error) what my TDEE is. Having the BMF is about as accurate as I can get. So, I'm just taking a 7 day reading of my daily tdee's, dividing by 7 to get my mean average and using that as my weekly tdee. I found so far that it works out pretty close to the basic scooby calculator but I want to do a second week of normal routine to make sure (this past week was a bit off routine)

paxier

oh geez, I missed this step also. I upped my cals beginning of May and have been losing/gaining the same 1-2kg for the last month. :sad:

Raynn1

Yeah unfortunately a Fitbit or Body media is definitely not in the budget..

FaithHopeBELIEVE

Marking to read later at length. I hope with the constant binges (because yout ell me I'm done with carbs for the day then i will surely binge and say whatever) I've been doing after a day of getting to my goal I have already basically done the reset. Just tired of all this logging. I want to be "normal" again. I decided to take a break (have the last 3 days) and eat when my body tells me to. I have been eating healthy too and still excercising consistantly. I'll see I guess, it anythign ti feels good mentally right now. Hubbie likes me not measuring every little ounce.