Am I just that bad or what?
kobashi
Posts: 164
I pretty much get 0 responses on match.com and on pof.com. Is something wrong with how I look or my profiles?
Opinions:
http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=35289218
http://www.match.com/profile/Show?UID=hi4T/xkanG2GpU+dwR/wQQ==&Handle=arguy1984
Opinions:
http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=35289218
http://www.match.com/profile/Show?UID=hi4T/xkanG2GpU+dwR/wQQ==&Handle=arguy1984
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Replies
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Hi Kobashi - here's my two cents... (Can't see the Match profile, sorry)
Do you have pics that are more interesting? I LOVE the one where you're down in the rocks - MAKE THAT YOUR PROFILE PIC!!!
Take out the "I have been on a couple dates in my life and cannot stand the concept of a blind date" statement. That's a turn off.
Otherwise your POF profile looks good, just be patient (and get some more interesting pics!). Good luck! :flowerforyou:0 -
Just looked at your MFP pics... use the one with you and your daughter - SUPER CUTE! Still like the one with you and your sunglasses, standing on the rocks THE BEST (it looks like its also your current MFP profile pic).0
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Hi Kobashi - here's my two cents... (Can't see the Match profile, sorry)
Do you have pics that are more interesting? I LOVE the one where you're down in the rocks - MAKE THAT YOUR PROFILE PIC!!!
Take out the "I have been on a couple dates in my life and cannot stand the concept of a blind date" statement. That's a turn off.
Otherwise your POF profile looks good, just be patient (and get some more interesting pics!). Good luck! :flowerforyou:
Awesome!
Thanks for the input. I really do need more pictures. I guess the problem is, I recently just started even allowing people to take them of me. I was not very happy with the old me.0 -
No you are not that bad, don't think that....or it will become you....Online dating is window shopping for a mate. Period. Plese don't take it too seriously as far as your "lack" of matches/contact.0
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I'm currently 1-33 for responses... I was actually kind of pissed when the one girl responded, I had a hell of a run going!0
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No you are not that bad, don't think that....or it will become you....Online dating is window shopping for a mate. Period. Plese don't take it too seriously as far as your "lack" of matches/contact.
This is so true. It is so much like window shopping - pictures matter more than anything you write. It's unfortunate but true.0 -
Awesome!
Thanks for the input. I really do need more pictures. I guess the problem is, I recently just started even allowing people to take them of me. I was not very happy with the old me.
My problem too! All my pics are of the fatter me. Not so sexy.0 -
Here's my two cents for what it's worth, and I'm going to be pretty blunt because I think that's more helpful than trying to be nice.
You start off your profile saying your daughter is your number one priority, so it sounds like any woman you could meet never will be. That may be the case, but I don't think you need to be so blunt about it in your profile. You also say you aren't sure about having more children. Many women in the age range you are searching (I'm guessing here) may want children one day. It's going to limit the pool of women interested in you if they see you as having had your child and not really being on board with having another with them. I'm not saying to lie about this, but this is why I think you should soften the blow with the whole thing about your daughter being your number one priority. Do you have full custody? I'm wondering if you could give an indication of how much time you have her. A woman who would date you need to feel like she is your top priority when she is with you and your daughter is with her mom. You end with being very family oriented and you talk about grandkids in the future, but with the start of your profile, it seems that the family would only be your flesh and blood. I'm sorry to say that I find that very off-putting. If I was someone you contacted, I would probably read your profile thinking "Yeah, good luck with that!"
Can you say something more about what your sense of humor is like? It's too easy to think, with other negatives in there, that you might have a weird sense of humor and very few people are intentionally looking for weird. Better still, demonstrate your humor if you can!
I made this comment about the other profile below, but your interests and activities are also very fitness oriented. I get that you are into exercise and being healthy, but unless you are looking for a fitness partner, I really think you should try to include some more female-friendly interests there. Like WHERE do you like to go walking? Is it an interesting place? If it's just around a track, then I'm not feeling the romantic potential. Make the women reading your profile able to imagine doing one of your interests with you!
Edit to add: I only looked at the profile on POF.0 -
Here's my two cents for what it's worth, and I'm going to be pretty blunt because I think that's more helpful than trying to be nice.
You start off your profile saying your daughter is your number one priority, so it sounds like any woman you could meet never will be. That may be the case, but I don't think you need to be so blunt about it in your profile. You also say you aren't sure about having more children. Many women in the age range you are searching (I'm guessing here) may want children one day. It's going to limit the pool of women interested in you if they see you as having had your child and not really being on board with having another with them. I'm not saying to lie about this, but this is why I think you should soften the blow with the whole thing about your daughter being your number one priority. Do you have full custody? I'm wondering if you could give an indication of how much time you have her. A woman who would date you need to feel like she is your top priority when she is with you and your daughter is with her mom. You end with being very family oriented and you talk about grandkids in the future, but with the start of your profile, it seems that the family would only be your flesh and blood. I'm sorry to say that I find that very off-putting. If I was someone you contacted, I would probably read your profile thinking "Yeah, good luck with that!"
Ko - I respectfully disagree with the ENTIRE paragraph above. I'm a single mom myself and have raised both of my children (now teens) on my own. I thought it was FANTASTIC that your daughter is your #1 priority... KIDS SHOULD BE! They don't have anyone other than their parents to look out for them. I in no way take that to mean that you wouldn't make your partner your priority. If you put your child first - then your capable of being loving and committed... even to a partner.
Personally, I thought the way that you talked about your daughter was the best thing about your profile... I wouldn't change a word of it. And btw, reading your profile made me think very highly of you as a father... kudos to you!
Edited to add: If you already know that you're not interested in having more biological children of your own - I think it's good that you state that up front and directly. You're free time is precious (and probably few and far between), you don't have time to waste on getting to know a woman who positively wants more children.0 -
Should I lie about being non-religious? It's not that I don't want to date a religious person. I just don't want to lie on there.0
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You also say you aren't sure about having more children.
I'll look at the profiles when I get home from work, but this comment stood out to me... I know women who seriously delete guys who say they aren't sure about having more children because they really do wanna become moms. They don't want to even risk getting involved with a man who starts off ambivalent about this but then the truth comes out that they don't really want more kids. They want a man who DOES want to have kids, not just pretend he might because that's what hooks women in that age range.
Looking back on it, as a woman, I can understand that because most women are pretty sure they want kids (or are very sure they don't).. I'm pretty emphatic about NOT having more children, though I'm open to adoption and mothering someone else's kids.
And as to the kids=priority thing, I have a kid and I would never put in my profile or tell a date he is always going to be my number one priority. Because he isn't. He is my #1 priority right now, but at some point, if I remarry, my husband is going to become my #1 priority. When a man starts off telling me his kids will always come first (because now-a-days that's what you're "supposed" to say to show you're a "committed family man"), he already has a strike against him in my book.
Here is what my mind translates this to: whenever you and I conflict my daughter and ex wife will take priority. I will be at my ex's beck and call because she'll use the kids against me and while my heart has fooled my mind into thinking I will be able to shield you from all that, when push comes to shove you'll just have to suck it up buttercup because you're gonna end up my last priority.
(I might be a teensy bit in female over-analyzing mode right now, lol...oh, and OP I probably don't think like most of the women in your target group so take the kids thing with a grain of salt)0 -
As someone who doesn't have children, like most of the OP's potential dating pool if he is looking at younger women (the trend, but again I'm guessing), I agree that someone's child should be their priority, but I just felt it came across to heavy in the profile. There was nothing in there that made me feel like he would hold the woman in his life as special. I just think there is a better was to say it that would show any potential matches that they could be a priority too. It's all about marketing yourself in the best way possible.Here's my two cents for what it's worth, and I'm going to be pretty blunt because I think that's more helpful than trying to be nice.
You start off your profile saying your daughter is your number one priority, so it sounds like any woman you could meet never will be. That may be the case, but I don't think you need to be so blunt about it in your profile. You also say you aren't sure about having more children. Many women in the age range you are searching (I'm guessing here) may want children one day. It's going to limit the pool of women interested in you if they see you as having had your child and not really being on board with having another with them. I'm not saying to lie about this, but this is why I think you should soften the blow with the whole thing about your daughter being your number one priority. Do you have full custody? I'm wondering if you could give an indication of how much time you have her. A woman who would date you need to feel like she is your top priority when she is with you and your daughter is with her mom. You end with being very family oriented and you talk about grandkids in the future, but with the start of your profile, it seems that the family would only be your flesh and blood. I'm sorry to say that I find that very off-putting. If I was someone you contacted, I would probably read your profile thinking "Yeah, good luck with that!"
Ko - I respectfully disagree with the ENTIRE paragraph above. I'm a single mom myself and have raised both of my children (now teens) on my own. I thought it was FANTASTIC that your daughter is your #1 priority... KIDS SHOULD BE! They don't have anyone other than their parents to look out for them. I in no way take that to mean that you wouldn't make your partner your priority. If you put your child first - then your capable of being loving and committed... even to a partner.
Personally, I thought the way that you talked about your daughter was the best thing about your profile... I wouldn't change a word of it. And btw, reading your profile made me think very highly of you as a father... kudos to you!
Edited to add: If you already know that you're not interested in having more biological children of your own - I think it's good that you state that up front and directly. You're free time is precious (and probably few and far between), you don't have time to waste on getting to know a woman who positively wants more children.0 -
I didn't look at your profile, but I can definitely give you some personal opinions when it comes to online dating. If you are trying to nap some hot babe online, it simply isn't going to happen. Your odds are MUCH better at a bar or through friends when it comes to that.. definitely not online. Your e-mail will be 1 of 10 that they will receive each day.
Now, if you are looking for a date with an honest girl to have a serious committed relationship with, online isn't a bad route to go. Almost everyone I met online has been polite, good job, from a good family, etc etc.
And response rates for all men are very, very low. I have a friend who is a good looking guy, smart, and built like a Greek God.. for every 8-10 emails he sends out, he'll says he's lucky to get one back. My personal response rate is roughly the same. Though I go for girls who I feel I would look good with, while he's always swinging for the fence.0 -
Eliminate the first two paragraphs. You don't have to say in paragraph form that you are a single parent and that you work a lot.
These profiles are supposed to be fun. Make yours fun! Throw some good jokes around. Talk about how fun being with you is. Make the women want to be with you.
With that said, even some of the best written male profiles don't lead to enormous responses. Poncho talked about going 1 for 33 recently.0 -
You also say you aren't sure about having more children.
I'll look at the profiles when I get home from work, but this comment stood out to me... I know women who seriously delete guys who say they aren't sure about having more children because they really do wanna become moms. They don't want to even risk getting involved with a man who starts off ambivalent about this but then the truth comes out that they don't really want more kids. They want a man who DOES want to have kids, not just pretend he might because that's what hooks women in that age range.
Looking back on it, as a woman, I can understand that because most women are pretty sure they want kids (or are very sure they don't).. I'm pretty emphatic about NOT having more children, though I'm open to adoption and mothering someone else's kids.
And as to the kids=priority thing, I have a kid and I would never put in my profile or tell a date he is always going to be my number one priority. Because he isn't. He is my #1 priority right now, but at some point, if I remarry, my husband is going to become my #1 priority. When a man starts off telling me his kids will always come first (because now-a-days that's what you're "supposed" to say to show you're a "committed family man"), he already has a strike against him in my book.
My mind translates this to, whenever you and I conflict my daughter and ex wife will take priority. I will be at my ex's beck and call because she'll use the kids against me and while my heart has fooled my mind into thinking I will be able to shield you from all that, when push comes to shove you'll just have to suck it up buttercup because you're gonna end up my last priority.
(I might be a teensy bit in female over-analyzing mode right now, lol)
Well, I will probably die with my daughter being my #1 priority. I would rather never date again then ever lie about this fact. Having her is still the best mistake that I ever made and I am lucky just to have her. I do share custody so when I have her, she is it with me. I ignore texts and I focus on her. If this means that I don't deserve a partner than that's how life is, I guess.
I cannot hide that fact. All of my female friends always complain about the guy abusing, cheating, not working, being dumb or inconsiderate. I am the opposite of all those things so I think I actually deserve to find someone good. It's why I am so picky.0 -
Don't lie about anything. I'm not religious and I choose that as an option on OKC. I'm not compatible with someone who lives their life by the Bible and what the church says. I would want to eliminate those matches and not waste my time.Should I lie about being non-religious? It's not that I don't want to date a religious person. I just don't want to lie on there.
If you don't want to exclude people who are religious, you could always say that you aren't religious yourself, but you are respectful of others' beliefs and open to dating people who are more spiritual or religious.
Edit to fix: LIE not like0 -
All of this is why you are definitely one of the good guys! You just have to keep in mind that women are also very picky, many particularly so when they are younger. so your rate of success is probably going to have lower odds.Well, I will probably die with my daughter being my #1 priority. I would rather never date again then ever lie about this fact. Having her is still the best mistake that I ever made and I am lucky just to have her. I do share custody so when I have her, she is it with me. I ignore texts and I focus on her. If this means that I don't deserve a partner than that's how life is, I guess.
I cannot hide that fact. All of my female friends always complain about the guy abusing, cheating, not working, being dumb or inconsiderate. I am the opposite of all those things so I think I actually deserve to find someone good. It's why I am so picky.0 -
I can only speak for myself, and I'll quit saying it after this - I promise! LOL I completely disagree with the other opinions about not listing your daughter as your #1 priority. I think that speaks volumes about who you are as a person. And I'll tell you flat out... I find being a good father to be a VERY SEXY quality in a man. I guess it's all about who you want to attract. If you're looking for quantity, then take it out - if you're looking for QUALITY, then you'll have to stick out the lack of responses longer.
I promise I'll shut up now and let everyone else give their opinion. :blushing:
Oh - and about the "religious" thing... never lie (about anything in your profile), but if it isn't an absolute - consider omitting it and being honest when the topic comes up in conversation.0 -
I wouldn't lie about anything in your profile, but definitely agree with those who kind of express the opinion you could lighten up and have some fun with your profile. Being a good father and having a stable career are important to lots (most?) of women, but the way in which you present these could be different. Fun, flirty, sexy.. would be a good combination with everything else you have to offer.0
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And as to the kids=priority thing, I have a kid and I would never put in my profile or tell a date he is always going to be my number one priority. Because he isn't. He is my #1 priority right now, but at some point, if I remarry, my husband is going to become my #1 priority. When a man starts off telling me his kids will always come first (because now-a-days that's what you're "supposed" to say to show you're a "committed family man"), he already has a strike against him in my book.
Here is what my mind translates this to: whenever you and I conflict my daughter and ex wife will take priority. I will be at my ex's beck and call because she'll use the kids against me and while my heart has fooled my mind into thinking I will be able to shield you from all that, when push comes to shove you'll just have to suck it up buttercup because you're gonna end up my last priority.
(I might be a teensy bit in female over-analyzing mode right now, lol...oh, and OP I probably don't think like most of the women in your target group so take the kids thing with a grain of salt)
100% agreed with Janie.0 -
When it comes to taking a current self shot, don't use your cell phone and a mirror!
Buy a tri-pod for $40 and a cheap digital camera with a timer. Your pictures will come out 100x better.0 -
Let me say this another way one more time, because I don't think you're wrong. I just didn't like the tone. I don't think it needs to be removed - I think more needs to be added or to just to tone it down a bit.I can only speak for myself, and I'll quit saying it after this - I promise! LOL I completely disagree with the other opinions about not listing your daughter as your #1 priority. I think that speaks volumes about who you are as a person.
I thought he could say that his daughter is a priority and that he has her 50% of the time, but he's looking for someone who will be his priority when they are together. Potential matches need to know he would focus on them when his daughter isn't around and it's not just going to be hearing stories about her, no matter how special the little sweetheart is (she's very cute from the picture, by the way!).
Someone who makes their children a priority is definitely something I think is a positive. For me, I would need to also be considered a priority in a relationship. To me, saying a child is the #1 priority and always will be puts in my head ideas like if things were to get serious with marriage, he would always take her side if daughter and I ever had a disagreement simply because she's #1 and always will be. I wouldn't want to sign on for that. I would love to find a guy who will be a great dad!
Anyway, I'll stop now too.0 -
I agree with most of the above... and I have put some serious thought into this.. here are my findings:
1. It's all about the pictures.
2. forget being super creative with your messages, the ratio for responses doesn't pay off and if the girl doesn't like your pics your just going to get a pity response.... or E for effort if you will.
3. The single peeps girls will eat me for lunch for this, but the profile isn't all that important. Obviously you need to have something there, but I have been told by some girls that have messaged me that mine is the best they have seen. And I have a 1-30is ratio for responses.
4. On the other hand put some form of question at the end of your profile, like: Message me if you can answer this question (something funny). Almost all of the girls that have messaged me have been to answer my question.
5. Look a level below what you would get in person. It's just the name of the online game.
6. Ask them on a date sooner rather than later... these online gals are touchy and just looking for a reason to reject you. Plus another guy might come along.
I have more, but I'm sick of typing for now.0 -
Let me say this another way one more time, because I don't think you're wrong. I just didn't like the tone. I don't think it needs to be removed - I think more needs to be added or to just to tone it down a bit.I can only speak for myself, and I'll quit saying it after this - I promise! LOL I completely disagree with the other opinions about not listing your daughter as your #1 priority. I think that speaks volumes about who you are as a person.
I thought he could say that his daughter is a priority and that he has her 50% of the time, but he's looking for someone who will be his priority when they are together. Potential matches need to know he would focus on them when his daughter isn't around and it's not just going to be hearing stories about her, no matter how special the little sweetheart is (she's very cute from the picture, by the way!).
Someone who makes their children a priority is definitely something I think is a positive. For me, I would need to also be considered a priority in a relationship. To me, saying a child is the #1 priority and always will be puts in my head ideas like if things were to get serious with marriage, he would always take her side if daughter and I ever had a disagreement simply because she's #1 and always will be. I wouldn't want to sign on for that. I would love to find a guy who will be a great dad!
Anyway, I'll stop now too.
Oh don't stop cuz of my big mouth :flowerforyou: ... It's just that I don't read into it what other women might. I must say, I really like what you said above about the addition of finding someone to make a priority in along with his daughter. THAT would be a great thing to include!!! Win-win if you ask me!0 -
How one guy addressed both the parenting as number #1 priority and the fact he doesn't have a lot of time to date... there was more before and after...
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"I'm a hard-working single dad....working as a health and safety officer in a large commercial construction company.
I work a stable 730-4pm mon-fri, have sole custody and guardianship of my 6 year old little girl who I have raised exclusively on my own. I do the cooking, cleaning, homework, lunch packing, errands and groceries
and always have.
I'm dialed-in when it comes to the work, domestic and parenting routine, and thus, don't have oodles of time during the week
to court someone. I do have Friday and Saturday nights free for the most part....and in time, if I meet Ms. Right....of course
sharing time during the week is a green light. But baby steps for now....you have to start somewhere- lol
"
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This is absolutely not true for me. A man needs to be attractive to me, for sure, or at least not repulsive, as far as I can tell from his pictures for me to want to meet him, but the message is still important. I get a lot of messages that are just "hi" and that doesn't show any real interest to me. I want to see something that shows he read my profile and liked something about me. I have had far fewer message that have actually said something about even one little thing in my profile and I will make the effort to reply to all of those, even if it's just to say I don't think he's a good match for me.2. forget being super creative with your messages, the ratio for responses doesn't pay off and if the girl doesn't like your pics your just going to get a pity response.... or E for effort if you will.
3. The single peeps girls will eat me for lunch for this, but the profile isn't all that important. Obviously you need to have something there, but I have been told by some girls that have messaged me that mine is the best they have seen. And I have a 1-30is ratio for responses.
I agree that the response rate is going to be dismal still, even if you have a great profile, but that doesn't mean it won't be worse if the profile isn't good. Women do read profiles much more than men, from what I see, so there needs to be something there to catch a woman's eye, especially if you don't look like (insert name of hottest actor or model you can think of).0 -
This is absolutely not true for me. A man needs to be attractive to me, for sure, or at least not repulsive, as far as I can tell from his pictures for me to want to meet him, but the message is still important. I get a lot of messages that are just "hi" and that doesn't show any real interest to me. I want to see something that shows he read my profile and liked something about me. I have had far fewer message that have actually said something about even one little thing in my profile and I will make the effort to reply to all of those, even if it's just to say I don't think he's a good match for me.2. forget being super creative with your messages, the ratio for responses doesn't pay off and if the girl doesn't like your pics your just going to get a pity response.... or E for effort if you will.
3. The single peeps girls will eat me for lunch for this, but the profile isn't all that important. Obviously you need to have something there, but I have been told by some girls that have messaged me that mine is the best they have seen. And I have a 1-30is ratio for responses.
I agree that the response rate is going to be dismal still, even if you have a great profile, but that doesn't mean it won't be worse if the profile isn't good. Women do read profiles much more than men, from what I see, so there needs to be something there to catch a woman's eye, especially if you don't look like (insert name of hottest actor or model you can think of).
I wasn't saying just say Hi. But I wouldn't go much further than: Hey how are you? I see you like Maroon 5, have you ever seen them live?? It's just not worth writing some paragraph and adding a ton of thought when odds are she isn't the 1 in 30 that's going to get back to you.
See I disagree with what you wrote in the 2nd paragraph... while something you write may catch their eye... long term a relationship isn't going to last off of some eye catcher in a profile.0 -
I have to admit when I tried on-line dating I mainly focused on the pictures. If they weren't not sort of attractive to me I wouldn't bother reading their profiles. Call me shallow I guess. As for the kids thing. I of course would want them to be #1 to you. In ways like keeping her safe, fed, happy, clean......not by making a possible girlfriend feel like she'll never be made to feel important ALONG with your daughter. It's not a competition on who gets more love from you. A person has enough love in them to love their children and a girlfriend/spouse/etc. It's a different kind of love. And your daughter will get older in time and she won't need as much from you. My kids are now 17 and 14. I have tons of free time now. When they were 3 and 6 - absolutely not. Life keeps changing. We can't stop that from happening.0
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This is absolutely not true for me. A man needs to be attractive to me, for sure, or at least not repulsive, as far as I can tell from his pictures for me to want to meet him, but the message is still important. I get a lot of messages that are just "hi" and that doesn't show any real interest to me. I want to see something that shows he read my profile and liked something about me. I have had far fewer message that have actually said something about even one little thing in my profile and I will make the effort to reply to all of those, even if it's just to say I don't think he's a good match for me.
I agree that the response rate is going to be dismal still, even if you have a great profile, but that doesn't mean it won't be worse if the profile isn't good.
@ the OP-You do need to either make some comments about something in her profile, or have a great opening line that doesn't seem canned and has you coming off as confident and funny. Try the commenting on what she says bit.
Make the profile great, but your response rate is going to be lousy. Do something like set aside 3-4 hours on a Saturday afternoon just to message women. Message like 30-50 women. From that, you'll get anywhere from 1-5 responses. It'd be better if it closer to 5. Here's why-not all 5 are going to keep talking to long enough to get her number and ultimately show up for a date. And not every date is going to lead to something substantial. To get something substantial, you probably need to message over 100 women.
At least that's how the numbers break down in big cities. The women are just that fussy.0 -
I've only been online for about 3 months myself. I looked at your PoF profile and here are my thoughts being VERY honest here:
1- Your daughter as your #1 priority is wonderful, but as a single female WITHOUT kids, I'm going to read that as, he'll listen to her over me any day so why bother (being extreme in that but just as an example)?! As evidenced on here, single moms may read that differently. Just know your audience and think about whether you want someone with kids, without, or does it matter.
Personally, as a side note, I think your child should be #1 when you're a single parent. I will completely agree with Janie however that keeping a child #1 when married is one contributing factor to troubled marriages. I believe in marriage that God comes first, your spouse, then your children, because in that order, your children get the best support and direction possible. To move those around, means you'd listen to your children before spouse, creating a divided household. I firmly believe that so seeing you say #1 makes me react a certain way... just an FYI because I'm sure others take it that way. Your choice on if that's good or bad...
2- The business and job stuff is a little overwhelming. My immediate reaction is that he's saying he's a workaholic while telling me he's not. Reads as denial to me, having been one in the past myself. Same thing with telling me you can't talk about your job. Comes across unintentionally as self-important. Just think through your wording carefully.
3- Ironically, telling me that Daniel Tosh is someone you like is a GOOD thing. Yet it's preceded by telling me you sometimes offend people. Tosh does too, so it's really about wording again. Avoid negative words like workaholic and offend.
4- This is really nit picky again, but telling me you like reading books about people who died long before you were born COULD simply read, "I enjoy non-fiction and biographies on historical figures". Somehow the word died added to negativity. Weird.. I know...I think I just read negative tone in the profile though.
5- I agree completely that the picture with the rocks is the way to go!
I know this all sounds nit-picky, but women read profiles more than men. Sometimes LESS is more :happy: Good Luck!!!0
This discussion has been closed.