Dr. Laura: Male Expectations Have Changed
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JanieJack
Posts: 3,830 Member
Checked out Dr. Laura's YouTube channel yesterday. In one of the videos, she says:
Not advocating a return to the “old ways” necessarily…but when current ads show the man of the house on the couch playing video games and the woman comes home from work and starts vacuuming, I'm not sure we've progressed as far as people like to say. What do you all think about Dr. Laura's statement?
http://www.drlaura.com/b/Video:-My-Adult-Son-is-Unwilling-to-Work!/578733456393438254.html
There was a time when a guy would throw himself off a cliff if his wife had to work and couldn’t be home to take care of the babies. Now there’s this expectation that he can put his feet up and she’s going to clean the house, take care of the kids, and have a full time job, and be a sex kitten for him. It’s a very different world, and it doesn’t work out as well.
Not advocating a return to the “old ways” necessarily…but when current ads show the man of the house on the couch playing video games and the woman comes home from work and starts vacuuming, I'm not sure we've progressed as far as people like to say. What do you all think about Dr. Laura's statement?
http://www.drlaura.com/b/Video:-My-Adult-Son-is-Unwilling-to-Work!/578733456393438254.html
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Blahhhhhhh:grumble:
We all know the job market is hard right now. Its kinda unfair to see it this way when I know many a women who expect the exact same thing from her man.:grumble:
My last boyfriend didn't work at all the entire 5yrs we were together. He cleaned made dinner watched the kids and did the homework. Yes he played Video games and yes he watched TV but no more than a house wife would. When we split up it was because the relationship had deteriorated due to his general unhappy personality.
Me I have no issue with a guy working or not working as long as he can contribute. However I know that most men (that I know anyways) want to have a job. They dont like feeling dependent on their females for money or anything. I think this is an over-exageration and is super one sided0 -
This one is simple
If you date a loser he's going to act like a loser, if you're with a respectable person they are going to act respectable.0 -
Yes, there has been an expectation that a woman is not successful unless she "does it all". Works, raises kids, cooks, cleans, etc, etc. This has largely been pushed by other women even though for the most part it's all just too much to do everything and those that try end up frustrated, tired and generally unhappy until something has got to give and it's usually not the job. A woman without a job, GASP, the inhumanity. I used to babysit a lot and it would break my heart to have the mom come home from work, and her children would run up to her just so HAPPY that she was home but she would respond with annoyance because she was -tired- and still had to prepare dinner so GET OUT OF THE WAY.
I'm a advocate of a parent being home, hands on with the kids until they're school age. Whether it's the mother or father there's no preference. I understand that's not always an option (single parent households) but it is ideal and it's what I would like - which is yet another reason I'm not looking to settle down just yet cause I'm not ready for that kind of commitment.0 -
It's about time women started pulling their own weight. Once common issues like hiring descrimination and the dreaded "glass ceiling" are things of a the past. There's no reason a woman can't get off her butt and work a 40-50 hour a week job like millions of men do. In fact, being current times, I'd insist that my wife or girlfriend work. There's no reason why she shouldn't.
Now, after a long day of work (for both the man and the woman), they have to decide what works for them in terms of running the household. If the woman wants to do laundry, cooking, and cleaning while the man does outdoor chores, car stuff, and picks the kids of from soccer practice, fine. They just need to decide what works for them.
I just get riled up a bit when I hear women who don't work complain about how hard their day is running errands and doing trivial work around the house. The mental image of Peggy Bundy eating bon-bons watching TV pops in my head.
.. And what really rustles my jimmies are women who fight for workplace right for years and are now complaining because now they are expected to work a full time job along with doing household tasks.0 -
.. And what really rustles my jimmies are women who fight for workplace right for years and are now complaining because now they are expected to work a full time job along with doing household tasks.
Way to miss the point there dude. It was about having the option to do the same things. There are women who want to work and never have kids, and there are women who want to be stay at home moms with five kids, and the same goes for men. Neither one is inherently wrong they're just different things to do with ones life. Who are you to judge how someone wants to live their own life - and then condemn an entire gender for wanting equality?
It's up the individual to determine and pursue their own happiness. I want to be really clear here: I'm not saying you're a jerk for expecting your woman to work full time, I'm saying that saying stay at home moms are lazy women that watch TV and eat bon bons is ignorant and offensive. My mother was a stay at home mom and she worked her *kitten* off to keep the house clean, to entertain my sister and I, to make sure we had fun, education, crafty things to do. She made sure we played with other children regularly, she made sure we stayed active mentally and physically and she made sure we were happy. She taught us to do chores and she instilled a sense of creativity, wonder and love for the world around us that I still carry with me today.
So once again you've missed the mark of "tough love".0 -
This is not the world I live in. I have never come home from work and taken out the vacuum cleaner and started cleaning.Checked out Dr. Laura's YouTube channel yesterday. In one of the videos, she says:There was a time when a guy would throw himself off a cliff if his wife had to work and couldn’t be home to take care of the babies. Now there’s this expectation that he can put his feet up and she’s going to clean the house, take care of the kids, and have a full time job, and be a sex kitten for him. It’s a very different world, and it doesn’t work out as well.
Not advocating a return to the “old ways” necessarily…but when current ads show the man of the house on the couch playing video games and the woman comes home from work and starts vacuuming, I'm not sure we've progressed as far as people like to say. What do you all think about Dr. Laura's statement?
http://www.drlaura.com/b/Video:-My-Adult-Son-is-Unwilling-to-Work!/578733456393438254.html
Sometimes you have to sacrifice things like the perfectly clean house when you have to work and do everything as a single woman. Being in a couple, I would require someone who is a real partner. This is an area that was pretty equitable between me and my ex. We both worked a lot (around 60 hours a week) but shared the household responsibilities. I cooked most nights, while he was in charge of the dishes because he hated cooking and I hated dishes. We mostly did our own laundry and had cleaning jobs around the house divided up. If I'm lucky enough to meet someone and get married again one day, I plan on hiring someone to come clean once a week or every other week so I'm not wasting my weekend time on something I don't enjoy. I'd rather spend that doing something fun with my partner.
I think there has been this change in society though. It's not the first time I've seen this discussed. It's time for women to stop thinking they need to be some kind of superhuman and do it all. Is it really men's expectations that have changed in these cases, or the women who let their husbands not contribute, like they are another child in the household to be taken care of, because they don't want to relinquish control of what was once considered their domain? It's difficult sometimes for women to sit back and let her man do something around the house that's not going to be done to her standard (speaking from my own personal experience).0 -
It's about time women started pulling their own weight. Once common issues like hiring descrimination and the dreaded "glass ceiling" are things of a the past. There's no reason a woman can't get off her butt and work a 40-50 hour a week job like millions of men do. In fact, being current times, I'd insist that my wife or girlfriend work. There's no reason why she shouldn't.
The problem is, Mike, is that the woman usually ends up doing everything around the house. Even if the couple tries to split chores. Even in your example below, the man does outdoor chores (which might take half an hour a day), car stuff (every once in a while), and picks up kids (takes maybe an hour., whereas laundry takes time, cooking takes time and cleaning takes time. Traditionally female chores take MUCH longer than male chores.It's up the individual to determine and pursue their own happiness. I want to be really clear here: I'm not saying you're a jerk for expecting your woman to work full time, I'm saying that saying stay at home moms are lazy women that watch TV and eat bon bons is ignorant and offensive. My mother was a stay at home mom and she worked her *kitten* off to keep the house clean, to entertain my sister and I, to make sure we had fun, education, crafty things to do. She made sure we played with other children regularly, she made sure we stayed active mentally and physically and she made sure we were happy. She taught us to do chores and she instilled a sense of creativity, wonder and love for the world around us that I still carry with me today.
Thank you!
My mom works nights growing up. During the day, she sacrificed her sleep to get up early with us, and she was basically a stay at home mom during the day, did everything a stay at home mom does plus cleaning, cooking, etc, and then went to work at night. She is the best mom for doing so much for us.
It is fine if you want a woman to work, and not be a stay at home mom. But you have to realize that there are challenges in that. If you have children, you're going to have to arrange for daycare, arrange for kids to be picked up, figure out what to do when one of the kiddos is sick, etc. It has its challenges and benefits for sure. And you should also come up with a plan before you have children so you're both on the same page.0 -
.. And what really rustles my jimmies are women who fight for workplace right for years and are now complaining because now they are expected to work a full time job along with doing household tasks.
Way to miss the point there dude. It was about having the option to do the same things. There are women who want to work and never have kids, and there are women who want to be stay at home moms with five kids, and the same goes for men. Neither one is inherently wrong they're just different things to do with ones life. Who are you to judge how someone wants to live their own life - and then condemn an entire gender for wanting equality?
@mikem : agree that you've missed the point. the issue dr laura is speaking of isn't whether or not women should be expected to work. the point is why are are these women working like the menfolk but still expected to come home and be the only person doing "women's" work.
personally i think it's up to the person doing the majority of the house work (and who doesnt want to do it) to put their foot down. if everyone is working fulltime jobs then the household duties are shared, that's how it was in my family when i was growing up. sometimes my dad would cook, sometimes my mom. same with cleaning which was more a shared set of chores well technically i was the house cleaner :laugh:
how i've seen this play out in other couple though is that hubby and wife have different expectations. he's totally fine with stepping over that t-shirt on the floor and she isnt, needs to pick it up and then later complains about how she always has to pick up after him when it blows up into a huge problem. isn't it easier to just communicate those expectations in the beginning? chores like cleaning and cooking aren't exactly mystery things that pop up in your day to day life0 -
I am guessing that the throw off the cliff is in reference to a man's pride. A man wouldn't be proud in the old days if his wife had to work because that was a sign that he was failing as a provider.
It is a lot more difficult today to set up a household in the old style of husband as sole financial provider and wife as household caretaker, including caring for the children. To do that, you need two things....
1. A husband with a very secure well paying job. The era of job security is out. In a lot of fields, job losses can occur at any time. This trend has been exacerbated in the current recession, but has been around since the 1980s.
2. A very secure marriage. If there is a divorce, and wife has spent the last 10 years out of the workforce as a stay at mom, if she were to return to the workforce, she'd have significant career hurdles.
With that said though, I believe that if both partners in a relationship are working and living together and/or married, there should be a sharing of household duties.0 -
There was a time when a guy would throw himself off a cliff if his wife had to work and couldn’t be home to take care of the babies. Now there’s this expectation that he can put his feet up and she’s going to clean the house, take care of the kids, and have a full time job, and be a sex kitten for him. It’s a very different world, and it doesn’t work out as well.
This is a statement designed to be provocative but probably not all that realistic.
Are there guys like that...sure.
Are there Peggy Bundys...sure.
Are they the norm,my observation in life is no.
The whole subject is an exercise in uselessness as there is no chart that equalizes one job stress to another or one household chore (mowing the lawn=making 3 dinners)to another.
I suspect that in a happy functioning marriage these things get divided up naturally without thought but in a bad relationship they simply become symptoms of the overall heartache that is going on.0 -
I still think it's hogwash. I live by myself in a near 2500 sq ft home and manage to keep it spotless. I cook, clean, and do laundry on a very regular basis. I work a full time, have an hour commute to Miami on both ends, and manage to pay my mortgage. I also find time to workout 4-5x a week and have a decent social life. I've been doing this for years and have never once complained about it.
So when I hear women complain of having to "do it all" and have a full time job, I really have to roll my eyes because most single men have been doing it for years.0 -
I still think it's hogwash. I live by myself in a near 2500 sq ft home and manage to keep it spotless. I cook, clean, and do laundry on a very regular basis. I work a full time, have an hour commute to Miami on both ends, and manage to pay my mortgage. I also find time to workout 4-5x a week and have a decent social life. I've been doing this for years and have never once complained about it.
So when I hear women complain of having to "do it all" and have a full time job, I really have to roll my eyes because most single men have been doing it for years.
Now try adding laundry for yourself, your spouse and your children. Try picking up after a messy husband and children that run around the house, and spill and make messes and actually LIVE in their house instead of sitting on one spot on the couch in the living room, watching TV for a couple of hours, then going to bed. Try cooking for four instead of one, and having to make full meals instead of just PBJs. And then add in time to care for your children and play with your children, oh and have a social life and have time for yourself. You have that time to run to the gym when you want to. As do I currently. But it isn't so simple when you have obligations to a spouse and children.
It is easy being single and doing all that stuff, because it is just you.
Mike, just realize that when you say these things and have these expectations, you might alienate many women. It is okay to feel what you feel, but realize that when you do tell a woman this, that she should do all of it with a smile, odds on she isn't going to want to hear it. I certainly don't like hearing you say all of that.0 -
I still think it's hogwash. I live by myself in a near 2500 sq ft home and manage to keep it spotless. I cook, clean, and do laundry on a very regular basis. I work a full time, have an hour commute to Miami on both ends, and manage to pay my mortgage. I also find time to workout 4-5x a week and have a decent social life. I've been doing this for years and have never once complained about it.
So when I hear women complain of having to "do it all" and have a full time job, I really have to roll my eyes because most single men have been doing it for years.
I like a lot of what you are saying. I have to cook, clean, grocery shop, do laundry and have working responsibilities. It can be a lot.0 -
I still think it's hogwash. I live by myself in a near 2500 sq ft home and manage to keep it spotless. I cook, clean, and do laundry on a very regular basis. I work a full time, have an hour commute to Miami on both ends, and manage to pay my mortgage. I also find time to workout 4-5x a week and have a decent social life. I've been doing this for years and have never once complained about it.
So when I hear women complain of having to "do it all" and have a full time job, I really have to roll my eyes because most single men have been doing it for years.
I like a lot of what you are saying. I have to cook, clean, grocery shop, do laundry and have working responsibilities. It can be a lot.
Again, by the statement "doing it all" it usually means that in addition to that, caring for your spouse and children is more responsibilities. You two men are not "doing it all". You're living, and doing the basics that you need to do to live. Try having a family to care for that depends on you financially and emotionally.
I don't know why this irks me so much. Maybe because I'm a woman. But when I see how hard my mom has worked her *kitten* off my whole life, to keep a house and a job and raise us, the idea that you guys have it just as hard is laughable.0 -
I still think it's hogwash. I live by myself in a near 2500 sq ft home and manage to keep it spotless. I cook, clean, and do laundry on a very regular basis. I work a full time, have an hour commute to Miami on both ends, and manage to pay my mortgage. I also find time to workout 4-5x a week and have a decent social life. I've been doing this for years and have never once complained about it.
So when I hear women complain of having to "do it all" and have a full time job, I really have to roll my eyes because most single men have been doing it for years.
Now try adding laundry for yourself, your spouse and your children. Try picking up after a messy husband and children that run around the house, and spill and make messes and actually LIVE in their house instead of sitting on one spot on the couch in the living room, watching TV for a couple of hours, then going to bed. Try cooking for four instead of one, and having to make full meals instead of just PBJs. And then add in time to care for your children and play with your children, oh and have a social life and have time for yourself. You have that time to run to the gym when you want to. As do I currently. But it isn't so simple when you have obligations to a spouse and children.
It is easy being single and doing all that stuff, because it is just you.
Mike, just realize that when you say these things and have these expectations, you might alienate many women. It is okay to feel what you feel, but realize that when you do tell a woman this, that she should do all of it with a smile, odds on she isn't going to want to hear it. I certainly don't like hearing you say all of that.
True but in fairness Christine most men don`t appreciate when ladies here say that virtually all aspects of developing a relationship are his responsibility and that should not be questioned or resented.
On edit to clarify...
Maybe it is me but for some reason it gives me the impression of a princess on a throne bemused by the efforts of a suitor only to at some point yawn and with the wave of a hand have them carted off to never be seen again.0 -
I love you, Mike :flowerforyou: It's like this topic was setup for you to stir the pot. I really think you mean part of it though truthfully
I can do it all, don't mind it, and am actually pretty darn good at it. My friends call me the Energizer Bunny for a reason. That said, who WANTS to do it all ALL the time?! No one! I would love to share responsibility with someone. I'd love to find someone who doesn't mind doing dishes because I love to cook. I still want to do it all though... WITH someone! I recognize it'll be tough finding someone who can do things as well as I can though 0 -
Now try adding laundry for yourself, your spouse and your children. Try picking up after a messy husband and children that run around the house, and spill and make messes and actually LIVE in their house instead of sitting on one spot on the couch in the living room, watching TV for a couple of hours, then going to bed. Try cooking for four instead of one, and having to make full meals instead of just PBJs. And then add in time to care for your children and play with your children, oh and have a social life and have time for yourself. You have that time to run to the gym when you want to. As do I currently. But it isn't so simple when you have obligations to a spouse and children.
It is easy being single and doing all that stuff, because it is just you.
Mike, just realize that when you say these things and have these expectations, you might alienate many women. It is okay to feel what you feel, but realize that when you do tell a woman this, that she should do all of it with a smile, odds on she isn't going to want to hear it. I certainly don't like hearing you say all of that.
Well, maybe it's time to circle the wagons and get tough. Yeah, taking care of children and a spouse will add to the workload, but it still can be done. And maybe you'll have to sacrifice a perfectly clean home and your social life.. well guess what, it's called being a real woman and sucking it up and making it work.
And remember, it's YOU who decided to marry a lazy husband and it's YOU who decided to have children (Not you specifically, but in general terms). To me, it seems like a lot of women have the attitude where they are so quick to get married and have kids, then all of a sudden it hits them, "well shucks, kids are a lot of work".
And yes, I know a lot of women won't want to hear it. Most are more concerned with complaining about their current situation instead of getting tough and trying to make it work.0 -
I think the dynamics definitely change when there are children involved. I don't have kids and I used to also wonder what stay at home parents did all day because I kept up with my house, and my pets, and my errands...usually just in one day on the weekend. But I realized later that especially if you have small children, every little task takes twice as long. There was this great snarky internet post that made it's way around facebook about how a working, childless woman wondered what her friend did all day and got mad that she didn't have time to talk. I wish I could find it. Small children are very demanding of attention, dirty up a lot of laundry and make even the smallest trip to the store an event. Just loading and unloading all their gear seems like not worth the effort to go for me.
I have new respect for all stay at home parents. And I still think many women who do work outside the home get the short end of the stick as it is still expected for them to do the "second shift" at home. My sister and her husband both work, but she is the one coming home and doing the homework, making dinner, doing baths, and laundry while hubby is watching tv and says he is too tired to take out the trash because "he just got home from work".0 -
I still think it's hogwash. I live by myself in a near 2500 sq ft home and manage to keep it spotless. I cook, clean, and do laundry on a very regular basis. I work a full time, have an hour commute to Miami on both ends, and manage to pay my mortgage. I also find time to workout 4-5x a week and have a decent social life. I've been doing this for years and have never once complained about it.
So when I hear women complain of having to "do it all" and have a full time job, I really have to roll my eyes because most single men have been doing it for years.
Now try adding laundry for yourself, your spouse and your children. Try picking up after a messy husband and children that run around the house, and spill and make messes and actually LIVE in their house instead of sitting on one spot on the couch in the living room, watching TV for a couple of hours, then going to bed. Try cooking for four instead of one, and having to make full meals instead of just PBJs. And then add in time to care for your children and play with your children, oh and have a social life and have time for yourself. You have that time to run to the gym when you want to. As do I currently. But it isn't so simple when you have obligations to a spouse and children.
It is easy being single and doing all that stuff, because it is just you.
Mike, just realize that when you say these things and have these expectations, you might alienate many women. It is okay to feel what you feel, but realize that when you do tell a woman this, that she should do all of it with a smile, odds on she isn't going to want to hear it. I certainly don't like hearing you say all of that.
dont forget sit down and help with homework
remember to get toilet paper when u werent the last one to use the last roll
remember that ur child is out of snacks at school
and that field trip slip
the papers for insurance that the husband left on the table that require info u dont have at the moment
water and feed the dog check it for ticks
figure out where the mole is in the yard......
oh thats what i did yesterday.....ha ha i just had to add to it sorry.
imho...its not the physical things that only make things in life stressful its thse MENTAL ones that get ya.
I just cant believe how some ppl think soooo differently it makes me wonder how values and expectations changed soooo severely....ya severe is the word i want, it makes me curious if thats a regonal thing or just a shift in expectations thru the generations of families.
Dont take this the wrong way guys...im just giving an example that i know of...but if u were to say such things in front of my parents if u were their children.....youd be without a few teeth.
I try not to get to flustered with ur comments because it kind of intrigues me and helps me keep an open mind. i may not agree but if we all agreed this wouldnt be any fun
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dont forget sit down and help with homework
remember to get toilet paper when u werent the last one to use the last roll
remember that ur child is out of snacks at school
and that field trip slip
the papers for insurance that the husband left on the table that require info u dont have at the moment
water and feed the dog check it for ticks
figure out where the mole is in the yard......
oh thats what i did yesterday.....ha ha i just had to add to it sorry.
imho...its not the physical things that only make things in life stressful its thse MENTAL ones that get ya.
I just cant believe how some ppl think soooo differently it makes me wonder how values and expectations changed soooo severely....ya severe is the word i want, it makes me curious if thats a regonal thing or just a shift in expectations thru the generations of families.
Dont take this the wrong way guys...im just giving an example that i know of...but if u were to say such things in front of my parents if u were their children.....youd be without a few teeth.
I try not to get to flustered with ur comments because it kind of intrigues me and helps me keep an open mind. i may not agree but if we all agreed this wouldnt be any fun
Oh, I'm not saying it isn't a tough job, because being a single parents with an outside job is a lot of work. But the difference between a little girl and a real woman is that one complains about a problem and blames everyone else except themselves, while the other get's tough and gets the job done.
I know plenty of women who are the later and I have a ton of respect for them.0 -
Just remember something ladies,if you or someone else ended up with this kind of guy,it did not just come out of nowhere.
The signs were there in actions or conversation long before the I do`s were said.
It is why it makes me crazy to see ladies going all ga ga over a guy because he is physically large or knew enough to open a door or act like the the king of the island all the while his conversation showed he was not going to be an equal partner in a long term relationship.0 -
I simply would not put up with a man who sat on his *kitten* and expected me to take care of the house and kids after we both came home from work. He'd get up and help me or he'd be gone for good, basically. Men my age didn't grow up in the 50's, they shouldn't expect a June Cleaver.
If I ever had the opportunity to stay at home, I'd have myself up early and a damn dinner on the table by 6. When you stay at home, that IS your job. At my job now, I keep on top of everything with organization and pre-planning. I'm convinced that the same strategy could be applied to housework and kids. My own mom always did all of that with a full time job and four kids. Then, because that wasn't enough to keep her busy, she crammed in getting her degree at 40. Needless to say, I have little sympathy for "overworked" SAHMs.
All of this is kind of why I'm against living together before marriage. If a man doesn't live with you, he's forced to take care of himself from the get go in your relationship. So he's "well-trained" when you do get married.0 -
I still think it's hogwash. I live by myself in a near 2500 sq ft home and manage to keep it spotless. I cook, clean, and do laundry on a very regular basis. I work a full time, have an hour commute to Miami on both ends, and manage to pay my mortgage. I also find time to workout 4-5x a week and have a decent social life. I've been doing this for years and have never once complained about it.
So when I hear women complain of having to "do it all" and have a full time job, I really have to roll my eyes because most single men have been doing it for years.
I like a lot of what you are saying. I have to cook, clean, grocery shop, do laundry and have working responsibilities. It can be a lot.
I used to live by myself and it was divine. I would clean up after myself, the place was great.
Then my job situation changed and I had to move in with roommates. I would do all the dishes in the morning and come home to dishes in the sink. The place required twice as much vacuuming and dusting. The fridge needed to be cleaned out more often. The bathrooms got dirty faster, the trash had to be taken out more. There were spills on the floor that hadn't been cleaned, spots of food on the counter.
Eventually I found a decent roommate who helps his fair share now. But with small children it's not just cleaning and cooking. It's spending time with your child. Playing, teaching, BONDING is critical as part of their development into decent human beings.
You're so stuck on the 1+1=2 you aren't seeing the other variables. Having a family isn't basic addition and subtraction. There's fractions, multiplication, quadratic equations.
I mean, it's cute and all that you think it's going to be -so- very easy. I suspect you're going to be single for a long time but I cannot wait until you have to actually take care of your own child.0 -
I simply would not put up with a man who sat on his *kitten* and expected me to take care of the house and kids after we both came home from work. He'd get up and help me or he'd be gone for good, basically. Men my age didn't grow up in the 50's, they shouldn't expect a June Cleaver.
If I ever had the opportunity to stay at home, I'd have myself up early and a damn dinner on the table by 6. When you stay at home, that IS your job. At my job now, I keep on top of everything with organization and pre-planning. I'm convinced that the same strategy could be applied to housework and kids. My own mom always did all of that with a full time job and four kids. Then, because that wasn't enough to keep her busy, she crammed in getting her degree at 40. Needless to say, I have little sympathy for "overworked" SAHMs.
All of this is kind of why I'm against living together before marriage. If a man doesn't live with you, he's forced to take care of himself from the get go in your relationship. So he's "well-trained" when you do get married.
I'm glad one woman on here actually "gets it".0 -
dont forget sit down and help with homework
remember to get toilet paper when u werent the last one to use the last roll
remember that ur child is out of snacks at school
and that field trip slip
the papers for insurance that the husband left on the table that require info u dont have at the moment
water and feed the dog check it for ticks
figure out where the mole is in the yard......
oh thats what i did yesterday.....ha ha i just had to add to it sorry.
imho...its not the physical things that only make things in life stressful its thse MENTAL ones that get ya.
I just cant believe how some ppl think soooo differently it makes me wonder how values and expectations changed soooo severely....ya severe is the word i want, it makes me curious if thats a regonal thing or just a shift in expectations thru the generations of families.
Dont take this the wrong way guys...im just giving an example that i know of...but if u were to say such things in front of my parents if u were their children.....youd be without a few teeth.
I try not to get to flustered with ur comments because it kind of intrigues me and helps me keep an open mind. i may not agree but if we all agreed this wouldnt be any fun
Oh, I'm not saying it isn't a tough job, because being a single parents with an outside job is a lot of work. But the difference between a little girl and a real woman is that one complains about a problem and blames everyone else except themselves, while the other get's tough and gets the job done.
I know plenty of women who are the later and I have a ton of respect for them.
Who here is placing blame?
Because seriously, all you said is that women have to suck it up and do it all because we asked for it and now we whine and complain. You said that stay at home moms sit around and eat bon bons and cry about how now we're expected to work too.
You're backtracking hardcore here now dude. Own up to what you say, it's been quoted enough you can't just go back and edit it.
You made general remarks about an entire gender that were offensive and you got called out on it. Then on top of that you aren't even addressing the really hard hitting comments in response to yours. You're picking and choosing the little easy to respond to nice parts. Now instead of admitting that your statements were exaggerated and inaccurate you're just backpedaling yourself further into a hole.Just remember something ladies,if you or someone else ended up with this kind of guy,it did not just come out of nowhere.
The signs were there in actions or conversation long before the I do`s were said.
It is why it makes me crazy to see ladies going all ga ga over a guy because he is physically large or knew enough to open a door or act like the the king of the island all the while his conversation showed he was not going to be an equal partner in a long term relationship.
Oh come on Carl, you too? You're jumping on the generalization band wagon?
Yeah, it's frustrating when people pick someone that isn't well suited for them and whines about it later even though all the warning signs were there. Like when women pick a lazy dude. Like when good guys pick a *****. Geez louise this isn't specific to any gender, race, age group or anything. People every where make bad decisions every day. All we're doing here is trying to discuss what the societal expectations are for the role of the modern women and why it may or may not work. Instead we're getting remarks about how anyone that complains is obviously not a real woman, or how women only ever choose bad dudes. I get frustrated when women in this group do the same thing to men. It's not about that!0 -
I simply would not put up with a man who sat on his *kitten* and expected me to take care of the house and kids after we both came home from work. He'd get up and help me or he'd be gone for good, basically. Men my age didn't grow up in the 50's, they shouldn't expect a June Cleaver.
If I ever had the opportunity to stay at home, I'd have myself up early and a damn dinner on the table by 6. When you stay at home, that IS your job. At my job now, I keep on top of everything with organization and pre-planning. I'm convinced that the same strategy could be applied to housework and kids. My own mom always did all of that with a full time job and four kids. Then, because that wasn't enough to keep her busy, she crammed in getting her degree at 40. Needless to say, I have little sympathy for "overworked" SAHMs.
All of this is kind of why I'm against living together before marriage. If a man doesn't live with you, he's forced to take care of himself from the get go in your relationship. So he's "well-trained" when you do get married.
I'm glad one woman on here actually "gets it".
Except she doesn't. The problem isn't about overworked stay-at-home-moms. The problem is specifically in regards to the expectation for women to work full time jobs, keep the house, keep the kids and keep the white picket fence all going at the same time. No one is complaining that stay at home moms are overworked - just that it's nothing to be ashamed of, and it's definitely not sitting around doing nothing all day.
While I agree if you choose to be a SAHM then yeah, do it and do it right, you have missed the entire point completely.0 -
Think I found the post that I was mentioning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/22/AR2007052201554.html
It was linked to in this post which also makes a lot of sense for me even though I have been living without spouses or children my whole life. Also makes me question the desire to have any kids. lol
http://thestir.cafemom.com/baby/124135/this_is_what_a_stayathome0 -
dont forget sit down and help with homework
remember to get toilet paper when u werent the last one to use the last roll
remember that ur child is out of snacks at school
and that field trip slip
the papers for insurance that the husband left on the table that require info u dont have at the moment
water and feed the dog check it for ticks
figure out where the mole is in the yard......
oh thats what i did yesterday.....ha ha i just had to add to it sorry.
imho...its not the physical things that only make things in life stressful its thse MENTAL ones that get ya.
I just cant believe how some ppl think soooo differently it makes me wonder how values and expectations changed soooo severely....ya severe is the word i want, it makes me curious if thats a regonal thing or just a shift in expectations thru the generations of families.
Dont take this the wrong way guys...im just giving an example that i know of...but if u were to say such things in front of my parents if u were their children.....youd be without a few teeth.
I try not to get to flustered with ur comments because it kind of intrigues me and helps me keep an open mind. i may not agree but if we all agreed this wouldnt be any fun
Oh, I'm not saying it isn't a tough job, because being a single parents with an outside job is a lot of work. But the difference between a little girl and a real woman is that one complains about a problem and blames everyone else except themselves, while the other get's tough and gets the job done.
I know plenty of women who are the later and I have a ton of respect for them.
Who here is placing blame?
Because seriously, all you said is that women have to suck it up and do it all because we asked for it and now we whine and complain. You said that stay at home moms sit around and eat bon bons and cry about how now we're expected to work too.
You're backtracking hardcore here now dude. Own up to what you say, it's been quoted enough you can't just go back and edit it.
You made general remarks about an entire gender that were offensive and you got called out on it. Then on top of that you aren't even addressing the really hard hitting comments in response to yours. You're picking and choosing the little easy to respond to nice parts. Now instead of admitting that your statements were exaggerated and inaccurate you're just backpedaling yourself further into a hole.Just remember something ladies,if you or someone else ended up with this kind of guy,it did not just come out of nowhere.
The signs were there in actions or conversation long before the I do`s were said.
It is why it makes me crazy to see ladies going all ga ga over a guy because he is physically large or knew enough to open a door or act like the the king of the island all the while his conversation showed he was not going to be an equal partner in a long term relationship.
Oh come on Carl, you too? You're jumping on the generalization band wagon?
Yeah, it's frustrating when people pick someone that isn't well suited for them and whines about it later even though all the warning signs were there. Like when women pick a lazy dude. Like when good guys pick a *****. Geez louise this isn't specific to any gender, race, age group or anything. People every where make bad decisions every day. All we're doing here is trying to discuss what the societal expectations are for the role of the modern women and why it may or may not work. Instead we're getting remarks about how anyone that complains is obviously not a real woman, or how women only ever choose bad dudes. I get frustrated when women in this group do the same thing to men. It's not about that!
No I am not,the general course of this discussion has been focused on lazy guys hence that is the context in which my statement is framed.
If the discussion had been more men complaining about women who expected to be a pampered princesses I could make the exact same statement and other then changing the gender specific words it would still be accurate.
The signs of who she was were there from the start and for whatever reasons(lust,insecurity etc) he chose to ignore them.
I have spent a lifetime on the outside looking in and observing people.
Except for a rare few,everyone I have known has tipped their hat very early as to what kind of person they are.
It is easy to see when emotions are out of the picture.0 -
Who here is placing blame?
Because seriously, all you said is that women have to suck it up and do it all because we asked for it and now we whine and complain. You said that stay at home moms sit around and eat bon bons and cry about how now we're expected to work too.
You're backtracking hardcore here now dude. Own up to what you say, it's been quoted enough you can't just go back and edit it.
You made general remarks about an entire gender that were offensive and you got called out on it. Then on top of that you aren't even addressing the really hard hitting comments in response to yours. You're picking and choosing the little easy to respond to nice parts. Now instead of admitting that your statements were exaggerated and inaccurate you're just backpedaling yourself further into a hole.
OK dude :laugh:
I'm not backpeddling from anything. I stand by what I said. Women who are SAHM have no right to complain about being overwork. If you work a full time job and have kids and a husband to care for, then I'm sure you are busy, but a real woman would suck it up and take care of business. Or, they'd divorce their lazy husband and meet someone who'll carry their own weight.
Geez, no reason to get all bent out of shape here :happy:0 -
There was a time when a guy would throw himself off a cliff if his wife had to work and couldn’t be home to take care of the babies
FWIW getting back to the op,yes this is also true but in this statement it is framed as being a matter of pride because the guy yearned to be the provider.
While that may be true to an extent I would also question how often the motivation was altruistic as opposed to considering the lady to be an inferior and thus resenting her providing for herself outside his patriarchal care so he could consider himself the king of the castle.
Romanticizing bygone days should be done taking the entire picture of the era in account.0
This discussion has been closed.