Dr. Laura: Male Expectations Have Changed
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All I can say is that I'm fortunate that I never had to date anyone with your, tchristine, or kitsunes attitude before.
Trust me, the feeling is beyond mutual.
I'm at a loss to figure out what happened with your posts recently. You seemed fairly even keeled and suddenly everything is about how women are feminazis, need boob jobs, aren't physically attractive enough, shouldn't work on their inner selves
and are immature. I'm guessing the real you finally came out here... but the fascinating part is how ironic everything you say is...and if you don't understand that, I'm not going to spell it out, but you might want to think about what it means on a human level.
On a side note, I have valued this group for months, because so many of you have helped me get back into the singles scene. I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and difference of opinions. However, lately, I feel as though it's become a place for gender bashing, which is really unfortunate. I would much rather people's individual opinions and experiences, rather than sexist and name calling mentalities. I've also noticed recently that many members who were very vocal are no longer around (or not as much) and I wonder if at least some of that is related to this new vibe? Just something to consider so Single Peeps does not go the way of the main MFP message boards, which would be a shame!0 -
As I said,I have no doubt they exist as does the female counterpart but I believe it is far from normal but makes for a good stereotypical man bash.What a crock of *kitten*.
I work 2 jobs, take care of a 7 yr old and handle most all of the household chores, both inside and out. It was the same during my marriage and it won't change much with my next partner.
That was my exact reaction when I saw the original pquote. Who are these men that play video games on the couch while the wife does all the work??? I mean, come on...
--P
Substitute in anything else like watching football, watching pawn stars, fiddling around the garage, working out, at the bar watching the game with the boys...
Not all men are like that but I think many are.
'many' is open to interpretation, so define it in a percentage if you will.0 -
All I can say is that I'm fortunate that I never had to date anyone with your, tchristine, or kitsunes attitude before.
Trust me, the feeling is beyond mutual.
I'm at a loss to figure out what happened with your posts recently. You seemed fairly even keeled and suddenly everything is about how women are feminazis, need boob jobs, aren't physically attractive enough, shouldn't work on their inner selves
and are immature. I'm guessing the real you finally came out here... but the fascinating part is how ironic everything you say is...and if you don't understand that, I'm not going to spell it out, but you might want to think about what it means on a human level.
On a side note, I have valued this group for months, because so many of you have helped me get back into the singles scene. I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and difference of opinions. However, lately, I feel as though it's become a place for gender bashing, which is really unfortunate. I would much rather people's individual opinions and experiences, rather than sexist and name calling mentalities. I've also noticed recently that many members who were very vocal are no longer around (or not as much) and I wonder if at least some of that is related to this new vibe? Just something to consider so Single Peeps does not go the way of the main MFP message boards, which would be a shame!
Kind of. Topics lately seem to be more about the wrongs that happen in relationships and less about dating advice/sharing dating and relationship stories.0 -
What a crock of *kitten*.
I work 2 jobs, take care of a 7 yr old and handle most all of the household chores, both inside and out. It was the same during my marriage and it won't change much with my next partner.
That was my exact reaction when I saw the original quote. Who are these men that play video games on the couch while the wife does all the work??? I mean, come on...
--P
I've known a few - been there done that - NEVER again!! I know there are good men out there but where are they? I would LOVE to know!!0 -
Ok I have to stick my nose back in here......
I have 5 people in my household. MY 2 children who are 9and 6. My sister who is 25 and my male roomate /best friend who is 30..
All of the adults work full time jobs they however work late shift 3-11. I do 95% of the cooking in the house and I cook for everyone when I cook. MY sister cleans the kitchen (after a long fight about how the cleaning fairy doesnt come in and clean the house ). I do the living room , the floor and my room. The kids clean their rooms (with alot of encouragement lol) My roommate takes out the trash cleans the bathroom that he and the kids share and cleans his room. Before my sister and my roommate lived with me when it was just me and the kids I did it all. And if/when it is just me and the kids again I will do it all until they are old enough to do chores other then there rooms. I half to say if I get in a serious relationship again and end up moving someone in he will do his fair share of the chores. What the chores will be will be broken down by disscussion.
I dont whine or complain about taking care of my **** cause its my ****. If I'm in a live in relationship then some of those things then become his **** too. Bu I've noticed alot of women who complain about their husbands/SO not doing anything in the house havent discussed it with him. Even my sister said to me how am I suppossed to know what you want me to do in the house if you dont tell me.0 -
Also SEX should never be a chore... If it is there is something very wrong there0
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On a side note, I have valued this group for months, because so many of you have helped me get back into the singles scene. I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and difference of opinions. However, lately, I feel as though it's become a place for gender bashing, which is really unfortunate. I would much rather people's individual opinions and experiences, rather than sexist and name calling mentalities. I've also noticed recently that many members who were very vocal are no longer around (or not as much) and I wonder if at least some of that is related to this new vibe? Just something to consider so Single Peeps does not go the way of the main MFP message boards, which would be a shame!
Let's definitely keep this in mind. A bar raised on the quality of discussion is a good thing in my book.
I think some are not around as they have found boyfriends/girlfriends.
I have had instances where I found "Chit-Chat, Fun & Games" to be a not so gratifying experience and not fun.0 -
Also SEX should never be a chore... If it is there is something very wrong there
No... but I can see how it might start to feel like that if one was responsible for 90%-plus of the rest of the family's (including spouse's) needs, and a full time job. Another thing to tick off the 'to-do' list...! One reason why I think those who fail to share the load reasonably are shooting themselves in the foot.
As for your sister's question about "How am I meant to know you want me to do it" - she's an adult, she lives in the house and can see what needs to be done, presumably. Quite honestly, if she doesn't have the native wit to see that there are dishes to be done (and no cleaning fairy to do it)... Another cop-out, in my book. I'm all for communication, but the basic needs of a family/household shouldn't need to be communicated in great detail if the adult inhabitants have any sort of consideration for each other, surely?!0 -
On a side note, I have valued this group for months, because so many of you have helped me get back into the singles scene. I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and difference of opinions. However, lately, I feel as though it's become a place for gender bashing, which is really unfortunate. I would much rather people's individual opinions and experiences, rather than sexist and name calling mentalities. I've also noticed recently that many members who were very vocal are no longer around (or not as much) and I wonder if at least some of that is related to this new vibe? Just something to consider so Single Peeps does not go the way of the main MFP message boards, which would be a shame!
This is definitely me. I've cut WAY back, haven't posted a topic in what feels like weeks, and considered unsubscribing to Single Peeps. There are far too many people who claim to want debate when really they assume they are right and call others names for having a different opinion. I don't like everyone's opinions but am damn sure not going to make them feel bad about it.
I consider myself pretty open, but given the number of Single Peeps who have sent me PMs frustrated with the way they've been treated on here or admitting that they don't post because they don't want attacked, I definitely think my days are numbered. and know plenty would say good riddance, since, of course they are right about everything and have nothing to learn from anyone else.... Just rereading what I wrote already makes me wonder why I am still on here, but I do know there are a lot of great people on Single Peeps and hope they'll speak up so things get better! :flowerforyou:0 -
Before you have kids, you discuss whether it's best to be a SAHM, work part time, or return to the workforce full time after your maternity leave is up. My brother and his wife discussed this in great details before they decided to have children, she wanted to return to the workforce because she had a very high paying job and they wanted to maintain their lifestyle. These are VERY adult decisions that need to be made before you take such a huge step and have children. You don't just change your mind.
This paragraph resonated with me because this was one of the contributing factors, though not the main factor, in my parents' divorce. When my parents met, my mom was an MBA students and embarking on a high powered careered. In those days (the 1970s), it was rarer for a woman to get an MBA and do the career track thing. But after I was born, my mom wanted to do the SAHM thing and I know that irked my dad. There was really poor communication about this issue, and many others. Probably a good lesson.0 -
On a side note, I have valued this group for months, because so many of you have helped me get back into the singles scene. I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and difference of opinions. However, lately, I feel as though it's become a place for gender bashing, which is really unfortunate. I would much rather people's individual opinions and experiences, rather than sexist and name calling mentalities. I've also noticed recently that many members who were very vocal are no longer around (or not as much) and I wonder if at least some of that is related to this new vibe? Just something to consider so Single Peeps does not go the way of the main MFP message boards, which would be a shame!
This is definitely me. I've cut WAY back, haven't posted a topic in what feels like weeks, and considered unsubscribing to Single Peeps. There are far too many people who claim to want debate when really they assume they are right and call others names for having a different opinion. I don't like everyone's opinions but am damn sure not going to make them feel bad about it.
I consider myself pretty open, but given the number of Single Peeps who have sent me PMs frustrated with the way they've been treated on here or admitting that they don't post because they don't want attacked, I definitely think my days are numbered. and know plenty would say good riddance, since, of course they are right about everything and have nothing to learn from anyone else.... Just rereading what I wrote already makes me wonder why I am still on here, but I do know there are a lot of great people on Single Peeps and hope they'll speak up so things get better! :flowerforyou:
Oh dear...l do hope no-one feels I have attacked them:embarassed: I do tend to get quite vehement, when I feel strongly about something, but I try to keep things polite, at least. I enjoy debating, in case you can't tell, but wouldn't want to drive people away. Perhaps we should separate 'debate' threads from the others so that people can participate or not as they wish?0 -
Also SEX should never be a chore... If it is there is something very wrong there
No... but I can see how it might start to feel like that if one was responsible for 90%-plus of the rest of the family's (including spouse's) needs, and a full time job. Another thing to tick off the 'to-do' list...! One reason why I think those who fail to share the load reasonably are shooting themselves in the foot.
Exactly. Lemme tell you what my 6 year old did before I sent him to live with his father while I deploy: He cleaned his room and then cleaned the living room. When I came out and was pleased and surprised you know what he told me? "I did this for you mommy, so you would have more time to cuddle and play with me."
Smart kid.
I didn't teach him that (thank you to whoever did!), but I hugged and praised him and told him to always have that mind set, especially when he becomes a daddy. Because every bit he does to help his future wife will means she'll have more time to cuddle and play with him.0 -
^This is so full of awesome!!Also SEX should never be a chore... If it is there is something very wrong there
No... but I can see how it might start to feel like that if one was responsible for 90%-plus of the rest of the family's (including spouse's) needs, and a full time job. Another thing to tick off the 'to-do' list...! One reason why I think those who fail to share the load reasonably are shooting themselves in the foot.
Exactly. Lemme tell you what my 6 year old did before I sent him to live with his father while I deploy: He cleaned his room and then cleaned the living room. When I came out and was pleased and surprised you know what he told me? "I did this for you mommy, so you would have more time to cuddle and play with me."
Smart kid.
I didn't teach him that (thank you to whoever did!), but I hugged and praised him and told him to always have that mind set, especially when he becomes a daddy. Because every bit he does to help his future wife will means she'll have more time to cuddle and play with him.
0 -
On a side note, I have valued this group for months, because so many of you have helped me get back into the singles scene. I've thoroughly enjoyed the discussions and difference of opinions. However, lately, I feel as though it's become a place for gender bashing, which is really unfortunate. I would much rather people's individual opinions and experiences, rather than sexist and name calling mentalities. I've also noticed recently that many members who were very vocal are no longer around (or not as much) and I wonder if at least some of that is related to this new vibe? Just something to consider so Single Peeps does not go the way of the main MFP message boards, which would be a shame!
Let's definitely keep this in mind. A bar raised on the quality of discussion is a good thing in my book.
I think some are not around as they have found boyfriends/girlfriends.
I have had instances where I found "Chit-Chat, Fun & Games" to be a not so gratifying experience and not fun.
Is that what you think? Have you asked people why they're gone? I have. And guess what! Some are busy with work, life, and boyfriends/girlfriends but MOST just aren't having fun here anymore with all the attacks and "I'm right, my way is the only way (even though IRL I do what I tell you guys not to do and oh by the way I'm still single and can't get a date).
I, personally, do not think the bar has been raised on the quality of discussion. I find that the "new crop" of posters is much less tolerant and far more antagonizing. When I came here, this board was a nice refuge from the meanness of the "Chit-Chat, Fun & Games." I learned a LOT. Many of the "old crowd" are lurking right now wondering if the board will return to where it used to be or if it's time to cut it off (hey y'all, feel free to pm me).0 -
Before you have kids, you discuss whether it's best to be a SAHM, work part time, or return to the workforce full time after your maternity leave is up. My brother and his wife discussed this in great details before they decided to have children, she wanted to return to the workforce because she had a very high paying job and they wanted to maintain their lifestyle. These are VERY adult decisions that need to be made before you take such a huge step and have children. You don't just change your mind.
This paragraph resonated with me because this was one of the contributing factors, though not the main factor, in my parents' divorce. When my parents met, my mom was an MBA students and embarking on a high powered careered. In those days (the 1970s), it was rarer for a woman to get an MBA and do the career track thing. But after I was born, my mom wanted to do the SAHM thing and I know that irked my dad. There was really poor communication about this issue, and many others. Probably a good lesson.
While I can understand the frustration this must cause, I do think that it's very difficult, if not impossible, for women to be 100% certain before they give birth about how they will feel afterwards. There are numerous biochemical and hormonal elements that are released in late preganancy, at, and shortly after birth that are designed to ensure that women bond with, and are as protective of and committed to their child as it's humanly possible to be. These shifts in body-chemistry are not something that can be adequately anticipated, and while the biochemistry of the male parent is increasingly believed to shift to some degree after the birth of a child, it's not a shift of anything like comparable magnitude (not a criticism, but a scientific fact). It's why one often sees women who planned to give a baby up, through adoption or surrogacy, and had every intention of doing so pre-birth, changing their minds, or really struggling to follow through with those plans in the immediate aftermath of the birth process.
Particularly in societies where maternity leave is not very long, and maternity pay is minimal or non-existent, women are faced with making those decisions while their body-chemistry is still significantly altered. It would be interesting to see what the return-to-work statistics are in comparable countries with very different provisions for maternity leave and pay. I'd be willing to bet the percentage of mothers who return to work after a six-month maternity leave is significantly higher than those who get only a few weeks off.0 -
Some are busy with work, life, and boyfriends/girlfriends but MOST just aren't having fun here anymore with all the attacks and "I'm right, my way is the only way (even though IRL I do what I tell you guys not to do and oh by the way I'm still single and can't get a date).
Yup, this is what I've noticed in behind the scenes discussions too.0 -
All I can say is that I'm fortunate that I never had to date anyone with your, tchristine, or kitsunes attitude before.
Trust me, the feeling is beyond mutual.
Whoa!!! How did I miss all this??
Someone's opinion is not invalid just b/c you wouldn't date them. I wouldn't date most of the men in this forum, but I still value their opinions and reach out to them when something really bothers, concerns, or confuses me.0 -
Some are busy with work, life, and boyfriends/girlfriends but MOST just aren't having fun here anymore with all the attacks and "I'm right, my way is the only way (even though IRL I do what I tell you guys not to do and oh by the way I'm still single and can't get a date).
Yup, this is what I've noticed in behind the scenes discussions too.
Very interesting insight. I guess my first impression wasn't spot on.0 -
Before you have kids, you discuss whether it's best to be a SAHM, work part time, or return to the workforce full time after your maternity leave is up. My brother and his wife discussed this in great details before they decided to have children, she wanted to return to the workforce because she had a very high paying job and they wanted to maintain their lifestyle. These are VERY adult decisions that need to be made before you take such a huge step and have children. You don't just change your mind.
This paragraph resonated with me because this was one of the contributing factors, though not the main factor, in my parents' divorce. When my parents met, my mom was an MBA students and embarking on a high powered career. In those days (the 1970s), it was rarer for a woman to get an MBA and do the career track thing. But after I was born, my mom wanted to do the SAHM thing and I know that irked my dad. There was really poor communication about this issue, and many others. Probably a good lesson.
While I can understand the frustration this must cause, I do think that it's very difficult, if not impossible, for women to be 100% certain before they give birth about how they will feel afterwards. There are numerous biochemical and hormonal elements that are released in late preganancy, at, and shortly after birth that are designed to ensure that women bond with, and are as protective of and committed to their child as it's humanly possible to be. These shifts in body-chemistry are not something that can be adequately anticipated, and while the biochemistry of the male parent is increasingly believed to shift to some degree after the birth of a child, it's not a shift of anything like comparable magnitude (not a criticism, but a scientific fact). It's why one often sees women who planned to give a baby up, through adoption or surrogacy, and had every intention of doing so pre-birth, changing their minds, or really struggling to follow through with those plans in the immediate aftermath of the birth process.
Particularly in societies where maternity leave is not very long, and maternity pay is minimal or non-existent, women are faced with making those decisions while their body-chemistry is still significantly altered. It would be interesting to see what the return-to-work statistics are in comparable countries with very different provisions for maternity leave and pay. I'd be willing to bet the percentage of mothers who return to work after a six-month maternity leave is significantly higher than those who get only a few weeks off.
That's a very good point that isn't often considered or usually comes to light (at least in my world view). The USA is known for pretty short maternity leaves as a whole.0 -
Before you have kids, you discuss whether it's best to be a SAHM, work part time, or return to the workforce full time after your maternity leave is up. My brother and his wife discussed this in great details before they decided to have children, she wanted to return to the workforce because she had a very high paying job and they wanted to maintain their lifestyle. These are VERY adult decisions that need to be made before you take such a huge step and have children. You don't just change your mind.
This paragraph resonated with me because this was one of the contributing factors, though not the main factor, in my parents' divorce. When my parents met, my mom was an MBA students and embarking on a high powered career. In those days (the 1970s), it was rarer for a woman to get an MBA and do the career track thing. But after I was born, my mom wanted to do the SAHM thing and I know that irked my dad. There was really poor communication about this issue, and many others. Probably a good lesson.
While I can understand the frustration this must cause, I do think that it's very difficult, if not impossible, for women to be 100% certain before they give birth about how they will feel afterwards. There are numerous biochemical and hormonal elements that are released in late preganancy, at, and shortly after birth that are designed to ensure that women bond with, and are as protective of and committed to their child as it's humanly possible to be. These shifts in body-chemistry are not something that can be adequately anticipated, and while the biochemistry of the male parent is increasingly believed to shift to some degree after the birth of a child, it's not a shift of anything like comparable magnitude (not a criticism, but a scientific fact). It's why one often sees women who planned to give a baby up, through adoption or surrogacy, and had every intention of doing so pre-birth, changing their minds, or really struggling to follow through with those plans in the immediate aftermath of the birth process.
Particularly in societies where maternity leave is not very long, and maternity pay is minimal or non-existent, women are faced with making those decisions while their body-chemistry is still significantly altered. It would be interesting to see what the return-to-work statistics are in comparable countries with very different provisions for maternity leave and pay. I'd be willing to bet the percentage of mothers who return to work after a six-month maternity leave is significantly higher than those who get only a few weeks off.
That's a very good point that isn't often considered or usually comes to light (at least in my world view). The USA is known for pretty short maternity leaves as a whole.
I'd be interested to compare the US and the UK on this, if I can find the statistics. We have reasonably-generous maternity leave, so I would expect the percentage of women going back to work to be higher. An interesting thought for the weekend - have a good one!0
This discussion has been closed.