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Better to lose weight before online dating?
Replies
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When I was at my university, while all the students were attending rallies, I was studying hard and getting A's. When my friends were playing Halo in the dorms, I was hitting the gym. When most of my friends moved to New York City of San Francisco to do the "struggling, free spirit" thing, I moved to a medium sized city and got a great job. When other friends taught English in Korea and back-packed through Europe, I was working my butt off at work. When they were paying $2000/month in rent to live in a trendy area, I lived within my means and saved for a house in an amazing area.
There is also something to be said for living a life, maximizing your experiences. For example, I've never been to Korea, but a year or two there could fundamentally change how someone views their life, their priorities. You would have tremendous exposure to different ways of thinking, a new language and culture, and you could grow as a person. Something similar happened to me after moving to the mountains of the Czech Republic, almost 20 years ago.Funny enough, all those "free spirit / backpack through Europe" types I went to college with are the same men and women who have a flooring sense of self entitlement, crappy work ethic, and a warped sense of reality. Most had all the opportunity in the world to succeed, they used and abused their opportunities and have just been handed the proverbial bill and can't pay it.
I can assure you I can pay all my bills. And I work a lot. I don't feel entitled to anything. And yet, I've backpacked all through Europe. Methinks your analysis is a bit of a generalization... Don't doubt these people exist, but let's keep it in perspective.
Glad things have worked out for you, though, Mike. We all have different goals. Key is to be happy. Sounds like you are, so good on ya, mate.
--P0 -
The world tilts.. is it possible that in fact we are all kind of on the same page about this? :happy:
Kitsune - nice post. Mike and Castadiva - I don't think you are really all that far off each other on this, despite the difference in perspectives.0 -
See, I would be interested to know how many people walk away from a long term relationship "pretty fast", when life gets tough for one of the partners as you said. My guess is that it is close to 1%. These hypothetical people simply (barely) do not exist and if they do are abnormalities.
I have to disagree with you Florian (are you surprised:laugh: ?!). I'd say it's rather a lot higher than that. Cliche's are so, because they are frequently proved true. There's a reason the middle-aged man walking away from wife and kids for a "younger, fitter model" is a cliche (and this is only one of the more -common examples of this sort of behaviour). I had a lot of of children from one or other side of that equation in my schools - twenty percent plus when I was in primary school, for sure, and I'd estimate probably the same or higher in secondary school. Little girls with half-siblings, and step-siblings, and some-other-sort-of-siblings to the nth degree. Several had multiple step-mothers, plus Daddy's latest girlfriends, by the age of six or seven, or were from the third or fourth 'family'.
I assure you, I'm not! (I may be an idealistic realist, but I am a realist!) I'm talking long-term, usually live-in relationships, akin to marriage or other significant commitment.Oh sure, if you're talking about dating, then I will walk away pretty fast at the sight of troubles and you too. After all, we don't know the person well enough on the first date, so we don't really care about their problems.But people don't do this in serious relationships without trying at least to save the relationship.
See first paragraph - if you've got kids, that's a serious relationship.What - also - you need to remember is that your time and your life are precious, and so you cannot just deal with people's *kitten* all the time. If you've been once with a person who was slacking then at the first sign of something similar happening with someone else, you won't wait long... You simply don't have the option to stay and wait another 5 years this second time.
What is "pretty fast"? When do you start defining the other person as a real "partner"? At what point do you consider you are in a "relationship" worth saving? What kind of "arbitrary ideal" are you talking about?
These are the most important unknowns in your equation, and they are very dependent on the individual so everyone knows deep inside when they have reached these different stages.
Of course these things are relative, I'm not disputing that. As for 'arbitrary ideals' - take your pick. It could be 'my wife must always be smaller than size 8', 'I couldn't be married to a man with grey hair', or 'my spouse must have my meal prepared and on the table at 7pm on the dot, every night, irrespective of the circumstances in their and/or our children's lives that make this impossible' - whatever floats your boat! If it's non-essential to continued breath and heartbeat, and based solely on our personal likes and dislikes, it's arbitrary. We all have an arbitrary ideal - mine happens to be a gentleman, kind, well-educated and intellectually-curious, around six foot, with light-coloured eyes and broad shoulders.
The problem arises, in relationships as well as life generally, when those ideals are completely non-negotiable and inflexible in the face of life's little humdingers. I'd be a fool to walk away from a man who met all those criteria, but happened to have brown eyes, or top out at 5'10", wouldn't I? Isn't it just as foolish (maybe more so) to walk away from someone you've cherished and loved for years over something similarly irrelevant, without at least trying to work through that issue, which may or may not be an issue to the other party, first?
Re. your time being precious - yes, of course it is, but isn't a relationship you've hopefully invested effort and some part of your heart in worth the time to save it, if it is a good one that is being derailed solely by something that really, in the bigger scheme of things, is of little importance - grey hair, a size 10 dress, dinner on the table at 7.10? The other person (and their investment, too) - aren't they also precious?0 -
My exBF and I were together for 5 yrs. I dumped him , hard. It wasnt nice I'll be the first to admit it. But he changed. He stopped working out became very depressive and reclusive tried to alienate me from all of my friends and sabatoge my workout and eating right. I spoke with him numerious times proir to the break-up we had even agrued about it. He let himself go. We stopped having sex because I was no longer atrracted to him. His personality changed and he became very negative.......
The sad truth for alot of people is as we gain weight we are less happy with ourselves and it changes everything about us. Its one thing to lounge around the house in sweat pants its another to stop trying at life.0 -
Isn`t this one of the most common reasons marriages fail.
"She let herself go and put on a bunch of weight"
"He used to be fun and do things but now just sits there watching TV"
I have known of both situations where the marriage blew apart.
So maybe this should be a separate topic but what is the preventative cure for either situation or just in general as we age and our lives change.
We talk at great lengths here about how to MAKE ourselves desirable to a potential partner but not so much on how to STAY that way.
It is almost assumed that it should just happen easily,without work or question.
However few aspects of life happen that way be it jobs,family or (can`t speak personally so presumably) relationships.
At the risk of sounding like a cracked record, choosing well to start with's got to help. Choosing a partner you like, respect, whose company you enjoy, even if that is just sitting at home together. Desire is important, undoubtedly, but I'm more and more skeptical that large amounts of it are a truly-essential component of a successful marriage. Desire, I'm starting to think, is, amusingly, merely highly desirable.
My grandparents were married for 60-plus years, and were still visibly in love in their 80's. When asked what the secret was, both of them said that they had married their 'best friend', and through all life's challenges and changes, that remained a constant. Granny eventually became comfortably rotund (she was a great cook), Grandpa didn't (wish I'd inherited his metabolism!), but lost his hearing, and became shy about going out in public after the war, but they were still talking about anything and everything under the sun until the day he died, and he still brought her cornflowers every year, to mark the day they first met. The other 'secret', they said, was work - working to think of your spouse and their needs, before your own, working to have empathy for each other, working to be kind to each other, and to put aside anger, selfishness and petty grievances, and most importantly, working together, so that there was time for them to be a couple - just them. No mean feat whilst running a large farm, upon which many more people than just themselves and their family depended for their livelihood.
As for "common reasons"..common excuses, maybe.
I have no doubt you are correct and while may be a bit controversial in nature back in that generation many more attended a religious establishment which quite likely had pre marriage counseling to prepare couples for the reality of life together.
In fairness as well that probably also can be said to have caused many unhappy couples to stay together in misery thinking it was the "right" thing to do for its own sake.
Anyways the point is that now I believe from observation is that marriage is often looked at as something a bit flippant and not thought out well.
Kind of an attitude that it is just the next logical step to dating rather then a life changing commitment.
Make any sense?0 -
Its one thing to lounge around the house in sweat pants its another to stop trying at life.
I'll drink to that.0 -
Isn`t this one of the most common reasons marriages fail.
"She let herself go and put on a bunch of weight"
"He used to be fun and do things but now just sits there watching TV"
I have known of both situations where the marriage blew apart.
So maybe this should be a separate topic but what is the preventative cure for either situation or just in general as we age and our lives change.
We talk at great lengths here about how to MAKE ourselves desirable to a potential partner but not so much on how to STAY that way.
It is almost assumed that it should just happen easily,without work or question.
However few aspects of life happen that way be it jobs,family or (can`t speak personally so presumably) relationships.
At the risk of sounding like a cracked record, choosing well to start with's got to help. Choosing a partner you like, respect, whose company you enjoy, even if that is just sitting at home together. Desire is important, undoubtedly, but I'm more and more skeptical that large amounts of it are a truly-essential component of a successful marriage. Desire, I'm starting to think, is, amusingly, merely highly desirable.
My grandparents were married for 60-plus years, and were still visibly in love in their 80's. When asked what the secret was, both of them said that they had married their 'best friend', and through all life's challenges and changes, that remained a constant. Granny eventually became comfortably rotund (she was a great cook), Grandpa didn't (wish I'd inherited his metabolism!), but lost his hearing, and became shy about going out in public after the war, but they were still talking about anything and everything under the sun until the day he died, and he still brought her cornflowers every year, to mark the day they first met. The other 'secret', they said, was work - working to think of your spouse and their needs, before your own, working to have empathy for each other, working to be kind to each other, and to put aside anger, selfishness and petty grievances, and most importantly, working together, so that there was time for them to be a couple - just them. No mean feat whilst running a large farm, upon which many more people than just themselves and their family depended for their livelihood.
As for "common reasons"..common excuses, maybe.
I have no doubt you are correct and while may be a bit controversial in nature back in that generation many more attended a religious establishment which quite likely had pre marriage counseling to prepare couples for the reality of life together.
In fairness as well that probably also can be said to have caused many unhappy couples to stay together in misery thinking it was the "right" thing to do for its own sake.
Anyways the point is that now I believe from observation is that marriage is often looked at as something a bit flippant and not thought out well.
Kind of an attitude that it is just the next logical step to dating rather then a life changing commitment.
Make any sense?
Complete and total sense, on all counts. :flowerforyou:0 -
Isn`t this one of the most common reasons marriages fail.
"She let herself go and put on a bunch of weight"
"He used to be fun and do things but now just sits there watching TV"
I have known of both situations where the marriage blew apart.
In my experience, most marriages end over one thing: money
My friends and colleagues who've gotten divorced, it's always been over money. Either she's spending too much or not making enough *or* he's buying too many toys and not paying essential bills. From what I've seen, money has always been the straw that breaks the camels back.0 -
Let's face it from the age of 25-90 EVERYONE is going to have fluctuations in size and body shape. It's unrealistic to assume that your 25 year old bride who's a size 6 is still going to be a size 6 at 80 years old. It's also unrealistic to go through life assuming that the person you married at 25 will still be the "same person" at 80 years old. Everyone changes, but I think the big secret is to always keep in the back of your mind why you married the person in the first place. More than likely it wasn't because they had big boobs or great hair. My recent beau always says "You can gain and lose weight and I'll always find you attractive because I fell in love with your eyes and what's behind them. They will never change from now til we are 90". I know I wouldn't be the same person if I gained even 20 pounds back of what I lost (bearing not getting pregnant or horribly sick) because I'd be letting myself down. He may find my body still attractive but I won't be the same positive, happy person.
5 years ago in November my mom was diagnosed with Stage 2 Breast Cancer (knock on wood she's doing great now, in remission). Anyway, my Dad stepped up in the biggest way (bigger than I ever thought he could). He never complained about what happened to her body (double mastectomy and a 40 pound weight gain over 3 years of treatment), he's just happy to still have her around. That's what 37 years of a great marriage is. About 2 years after diagnoses, a good friend of her's (who's 44 and has the body of 20 year old) came to her one day and said "Ron really stood by you through all the ups and downs during treatment, I'm really amazed. I don't think my husband of 3 years would do that for me. I think he'd leave me for a younger model." My mom was saddened by this only because she knew she wouldn't be alive today without the support of my father and to live life wondering if your spouse would step up and still love you when life got rough would be horrible.
So, I agree that marriage is not a reason to "let ones self go", but crap is going to happen and you have a choice to be an adult and to help the one you love or be a crappy person and leave when they need you the most because something horrible happened.
My recent beau and I have only been together for 4 months but are very serious about each other. We were best friends first. I told him I'd love him forever if he just kept trying and didn't give up on life. By that I mean, you can trip up and gain an few pounds and I'll still find you hotter than hell, but if every night all you want to do is sit in front of your computer and never go anywhere or do anything, I'll give up on you. That's not what I signed up for. I understand he won't be 31 with a full head of hair forever, but if he stops being "him" I won't love him anymore. Same goes for me. I just wish everyone felt this way - there'd be a lot less divorce!0 -
Isn`t this one of the most common reasons marriages fail.
"She let herself go and put on a bunch of weight"
"He used to be fun and do things but now just sits there watching TV"
I have known of both situations where the marriage blew apart.
In my experience, most marriages end over one thing: money
My friends and colleagues who've gotten divorced, it's always been over money. Either she's spending too much or not making enough *or* he's buying too many toys and not paying essential bills. From what I've seen, money has always been the straw that breaks the camels back.
Thinking on this and do have to agree but in the sense maybe that is the stress and these things become the symptoms.
The lashing out over the deeper frustrations.0 -
Firstly, well done - you sound like you've made some fantastic choices, and life is good. I'm genuinely pleased for you, Mike. You've taken your opportunities and made the most of them, and I applaud that. Like you, I know many children of wealthy families whose sense of entitlement and youthful arrogance led them down some fairly horrendous, sometimes fatal, paths. I also know some who have succeeded against all imaginable odds.
I never intended to imply that you did not earn your idyll, or that you don't deserve it, merely to point out that many of your opinions seem to stem from the assumption that all will always be thus, and that even the best-laid plans, the best, most-sensible, most-responsible lives, can, and frequently are, disrupted to their very foundations by circumstances that are not always possible to control, and sometimes have little or no relation to the individual themselves, or their choices. This, I know. I've lived it, and believe me, it was a shock to the system.
You said that "no-one would want a partner like that" - a partner, that is, who has "let themselves go completely". My question was this: When push comes to shove, if your partner 'let herself go' under circumstances that are beyond her, or your, ability to control, what then? Would you stick it out, try to work through it together, or would you, as your various posts on the subject have suggested, deem her 'failure' to keep herself 'looking good' under difficult or impossible circumstances, to be your justification for looking elsewhere? That's what I want to know. And while we're on the subject, what about if the situation were reversed and you were the one who was unable to maintain his youthful looks and physique? Would you accept your wife/partner/girlfriend's using that to justify her own departure?
Secondly, while I may have made some assumptions, it seems to me you're making a fair few about me too. I'm very glad (for you) that my perception of your mindset coming from a happy, comfortable life was reasonably accurate. I regret to inform you that your assumptions about me, my lifestyle, mindset and choices, are quite a distance off the mark.
Sure, best laid plans of mice and men often go awry. I could get hit by a drunk driver on my way home from work today and be vegetable for the rest of my life. I don't think that's going to happen, but you never know.
The best you can do is control as many variables as you can. At the end of the day, we all have at least some influence on everything ranging from income to how you live to where you live to your health, etc etc. You just can't control the freak accidents (though you can significantly reduce your chances of being in one) or medical issues (though as I previously stated, you can greatly reduce your risk on a handful of them)
If I'm with a partner and she lets herself go (just by sheer laziness, not medical/accident/etc), then I would feel as I failed myself. I've always been a self starter, but some people need a kick in the *kitten*. I would be the first to encourage my partner to live a healthier lifestyle if she was slacking. I would appreciate and feel grateful if she did the same for me.
It's a tough situation if you've taken the vows to be married and committed to each other.. and suddenly the unthinkable happens. I've seen firsthand women who have cheated on men who came back from the war who were missing an arm or leg. I'm sure the opposite happens as well.
I think the bottom line is that talk can be very, very cheap. You don't know how you'll act in a situation until you are placed in it.0 -
That's a very fair point. As a few people who know us separately have said, our essential views on this are probably not so far apart, in fact, but approached from very different angles. As I'm just signing off, have a good day! May your plans, as the immortal Rabbie Burns had it, not "gang aft agley".
Firstly, well done - you sound like you've made some fantastic choices, and life is good. I'm genuinely pleased for you, Mike. You've taken your opportunities and made the most of them, and I applaud that. Like you, I know many children of wealthy families whose sense of entitlement and youthful arrogance led them down some fairly horrendous, sometimes fatal, paths. I also know some who have succeeded against all imaginable odds.
I never intended to imply that you did not earn your idyll, or that you don't deserve it, merely to point out that many of your opinions seem to stem from the assumption that all will always be thus, and that even the best-laid plans, the best, most-sensible, most-responsible lives, can, and frequently are, disrupted to their very foundations by circumstances that are not always possible to control, and sometimes have little or no relation to the individual themselves, or their choices. This, I know. I've lived it, and believe me, it was a shock to the system.
You said that "no-one would want a partner like that" - a partner, that is, who has "let themselves go completely". My question was this: When push comes to shove, if your partner 'let herself go' under circumstances that are beyond her, or your, ability to control, what then? Would you stick it out, try to work through it together, or would you, as your various posts on the subject have suggested, deem her 'failure' to keep herself 'looking good' under difficult or impossible circumstances, to be your justification for looking elsewhere? That's what I want to know. And while we're on the subject, what about if the situation were reversed and you were the one who was unable to maintain his youthful looks and physique? Would you accept your wife/partner/girlfriend's using that to justify her own departure?
Secondly, while I may have made some assumptions, it seems to me you're making a fair few about me too. I'm very glad (for you) that my perception of your mindset coming from a happy, comfortable life was reasonably accurate. I regret to inform you that your assumptions about me, my lifestyle, mindset and choices, are quite a distance off the mark.
Sure, best laid plans of mice and men often go awry. I could get hit by a drunk driver on my way home from work today and be vegetable for the rest of my life. I don't think that's going to happen, but you never know.
The best you can do is control as many variables as you can. At the end of the day, we all have at least some influence on everything ranging from income to how you live to where you live to your health, etc etc. You just can't control the freak accidents (though you can significantly reduce your chances of being in one) or medical issues (though as I previously stated, you can greatly reduce your risk on a handful of them)
If I'm with a partner and she lets herself go (just by sheer laziness, not medical/accident/etc), then I would feel as I failed myself. I've always been a self starter, but some people need a kick in the *kitten*. I would be the first to encourage my partner to live a healthier lifestyle if she was slacking. I would appreciate and feel grateful if she did the same for me.
It's a tough situation if you've taken the vows to be married and committed to each other.. and suddenly the unthinkable happens. I've seen firsthand women who have cheated on men who came back from the war who were missing an arm or leg. I'm sure the opposite happens as well.
I think the bottom line is that talk can be very, very cheap. You don't know how you'll act in a situation until you are placed in it.0 -
Its one thing to lounge around the house in sweat pants its another to stop trying at life.
I'll drink to that.
So good...
--P0 -
Its one thing to lounge around the house in sweat pants its another to stop trying at life.
I'll drink to that.
So good...
--P
We all drink to that lol Kit0
This discussion has been closed.