Improving Marathon times
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long slow miles = a long slow miles runner!
This is just BS.
oh should I up my miles to 60 a week and that will make me fast!? thats BS
Why don't you try it and see? Have you ever read anything about distance training?
My results echo those of Scott. My PR's are listed on my profile as well as a link to my training log. Have a look.
What kind of results have you seen and what type of training are you doing?
This is the thing, the pair of you refuse to believe there is another way to train! I never do more than 40/45m per week! the results I see above are just standard lowering of pb,s I would expect from any runner running 40+ miles a week for a few years! how do you both know any different if you havent tried another way to train? Why would you want to keep knocking out all them miles to be running a 20+ min 5k ( this isnt meant in a derogatory fashion) Why wouldnt you train smarter to lower them times? Is lydiard the only coaches philosophy you stand by? is it a case of what works for me must work for everyone so thats the advice thats given?? there are lots of proven plans to lower times why is this one the only one you support? why are even advanced marathon schedules maxing out at 55 miles per week?? There is more than one way! If you want to keep on with your dinosaur training ideology please do. Personally I train smart
Okay, let me get this out of the way first. It's comments like "Personally I train smart" that I find to be a barrier to civil discussion. It implies that I (we?) train not smart, or in other words, dumb. Now, I'm going to ignore that and try to move beyond it. Also, my apologies to you if I have made any comments that you've deemed to be degrading or dismissive.
Sure, there are other ways to train and they will even produce favorable results. Plans like FIRST can produce results, but the problem with those types of plans is that they are not sustainable over time because they don't address the basic building block of distance running, aerobic fitness, the way that Lydiard based programs do. Yes, you can gain aerobic fitness from biking and other cross training activities, but it doesn't do as good a job as running. Additionally, the body needs those miles to develop the stability systems that are essential in running. In the January/February issue of Running Times there is a section called "Owner's Manual". In this edition, they discuss "Strategies for maximizing your running life, not just the next race". One section that is printed in large, bold, contrasting color font states this: "The Internet is full of programs for faster progression. The world is also full of injured and burned-out runners." The theme of the article is that it takes a lot of time and a lot of base to sustain improvements over your life-time.
To summarize, I believe that you can get faster on 40 miles per week if most of it is easy running. Some runners may be happy with the gains that they get running 40 miles per week. If the bulk of that 40 miles is hard effort, you run the risk of becoming one of those runners referred to in the bold section above. But, if you want to maximize your potential. If you want to run your very best, you must increase your aerobic base by running high(er) mileage. I can't put a number on that. Some people will never be capable of running more than 40 miles per week. Some can run 180 miles per week, though I think that's excessive as do many professional coaches, believing that you hit the point of diminishing returns around 120 miles per week. Why do I believe this to be the only truth? There is both science to confirm it and anecdotal evidence to support it. I have yet to read of an elite distance runner whose coach advocates anything other than a training plan that is firmly grounded in Lydiard's principles.0 -
I dont want or need to argue with you, i have seen you have given some great advice on other threads! back to what the thread was about tho the lady wants to improve her marathon time, she isnt Elite I repeat isnt ELITE so can we please stop with what the elites are doing! we can learn from them yes!! she is at the moment a very average runner! the advice given was to up her milage nothing else, no intervals no tempo runs no track time no core work, nothing about how some strength training can make her a faster stronger runner! just up her mileage! she can build a perfectly good base on 40+ miles a week, where does the magic 60 come from? and how is it applicable to this lady?
I see even your 5k time isnt what I was expecting if your running 60+m a week!! we have club runners doing 16 minutes on less than 30m a week! when it comes a round who is going to be the faster 10k/10m/half or full runner?
I think we may have to just disagree, yes base mileage is great for a new runner I am not doubting that but I will still maintain telling somone just to up there mileage by 50% is poor advice0 -
OP, thanks so much for starting this topic. I am a real newbie (less than 1 year running,) but I tend to be ambitious in my goals for myself. Additionally, I have either been an athlete or trained athletes for the past 30+ years. One thing has struck me as strange is that marathon training plans top out at 20 miles for the long run and relatively low miles overall. Yet for some reason people supposedly "hit the wall" at mile 20. So how much of it is physical (having only trained 3/4 of the total distance) and how much is mental (I've only done 20 miles, people hit the wall at 20 miles- oh no! I'm going to hit the wall!)
My marathon is in March and I hit the 20 mile long run December 17. Since then I have been upping my midweek mileage and have scaled back to every-other week long runs, and will be increasing my long-run mileage to 26 miles before I taper. Last weekend I ran 6.4 miles to the start of a half marathon and did the half in record time (for me) at 1:49:19. I know that is not fast by elite standards, but it's ok for a 40 year old newbie who started more than a 10k before the race. How much of that is the fact that I feel comfortable with the distance? I certainly wasn't dead the next day, so I have to think that I probably could have pushed harder (I couldn't be dead- I promised that I would play a round of golf with my husband before heading back to the cold in DC
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I have been reading Carson and Scott's posts eagerly, because what they are saying MAKES SENSE from the basic standpoint of physical training. It's nice to see someone advocating doing more to improve results. If you're running a high volume of miles, of course you will get better. Specificity of training- i.e. training in your competitive conditions- whether it is the type of terrain, the altitude, the weather, or the distance, is advocated in many other sports. Why should running be different? Several weeks prior to competition, I have my skaters execute "double run-throughs" of their program; in other words, the program with all jumps and spins, executed twice back-to-back. We then do a one week taper prior to the start of the events- no double run-throughs, but practicing performing in different start orders. Now I know that skating is more of a sprint with bouts of explosive power thrown in than an endurance event, but my athletes know that if they have enough endurance to execute twice in a row, then no matter when or where they skate- even if they are first after the warm-up with no break and at high altitude- they will be able to successfully perform the program.
Granted, my experience is with a drastically different sport. But there are definitely constants in the field of athletic training, and I believe that the more you can do while remaining injury free, the better off you will be! And if I'm correct that there is a mental component to running, then the more physically prepared you are, then the easier the race will be from both a physical AND mental standpoint.0 -
I'd love to increase my speed, but if I even attempted 80 miles a week, I know I'd get injured...I can just about manage 125 miles a month and the Hal higdon plan I'm following doesn't exceed 25 miles a week including the long run.
I'll look at doing interval training instead, last time I got injured I was out for 10 weeks... I can't afford that risk with my first marathon in may coming uo0 -
I have to agree with a lot of what Carson and Scott have said.
I can't really add much except for anecdotal advice. I am a very average runner, and the best advice I've ever followed was simply to run more.
No one is dismissing track work, tempo work, core strengthening, etc., but even the OP was stating that that didn't help her much when she died during the last few miles of the marathon. I can't even agree more - the marathon is an endurance event, not a sprint.
I saw my biggest gains by slowing down and running more. Went from running 35 miles per week to about 50. In the span of a few months, I took 20 minutes off my marathon time (middle of the pack runner - 4:38 to a 4:18 at that time). I've improved my times even more since then, following the same type of training. I did no speedwork whatsoever, but did throw in a few fast finish miles at the end of my long run. Most of my long runs were done at 30 to even 1:00 slower than race pace. I never died or hit the wall at that marathon. Was one of my best races ever.
To whoever said that long slow miles = a long slow runner - I call bollox on that as well! My shorter race times improved dramatically when I started running more (slower) miles. I've managed to run injury free by keeping most of my running easy. Even if you look at how elites train, they don't go out running 5 minute miles for all of their training runs. They're running them slow (like 7 minute mile slow!) LOL.
To the OP, I can understand increasing the pace of your long runs... I don't think you necessarily have to run 1-2 minutes slower than race pace. A few race pace miles and longer tempo runs will definitely help as well.
Best of luck to you.0 -
We can't ignore what the elites are doing because they are training the way that has been proven to work over time. We can ALL train like the elites in structure. An elite marathoner may run 10 hours a week during peak marathon training. At an average pace of 6 minutes per mile, that's 100 miles per week. I recreational runner can train 10 hours a week too. At an average of 10 minutes per mile, that's 60 miles per week. If you want to train to perform in a marathon, you have to train like a marathon runner. Who better to emulate in structure than an elite....back to what the thread was about tho the lady wants to improve her marathon time, she isnt Elite I repeat isnt ELITE so can we please stop with what the elites are doing! we can learn from them yes!! she is at the moment a very average runner! the advice given was to up her milage nothing else, no intervals no tempo runs no track time no core work, nothing about how some strength training can make her a faster stronger runner! just up her mileage! she can build a perfectly good base on 40+ miles a week, where does the magic 60 come from? and how is it applicable to this lady?
The reason that the advice was given to up the mileage is because the marathon is an aerobic event. You have to build aerobic base. You do that by running more miles. It doesn't all have to be slow miles, but running 60 second 400s isn't going to help with aerobic base. Doing core work isn't going to help build aerobic base, but it is important to help with form and to keep one injury free. Strength training is not going to help her run a faster marathon, though the right kind may help to keep her injury free. Tempo runs should be a part of any base training or marathon training. My original post to the OP pointed her to my training log which shows that during my marathon training I did easy running LT and AT runs (tempo) and strides and that was about it. If you read my blog about that race, you'll see that I ran a huge PR on that training even though I ran a very conservative race for the first 18 miles. I was probably capable of a 3:08 on that day.
The reason for this was not solely because of the mileage that I ran during the 16 week training phase, but because of the other 50+ miles per week that I averaged over the previous two years. All of that was aerobic base.
What's your 5K time and what does your training look like? You haven't given any evidence to support that you even know what you are talking about. I'm an open book.I see even your 5k time isnt what I was expecting if your running 60+m a week!! we have club runners doing 16 minutes on less than 30m a week! when it comes a round who is going to be the faster 10k/10m/half or full runner?
My 5K PR was run almost a year ago. It was in the middle of training for a HM. I did no specific 5K training. It was on a very hilly and challenging course. On a flat course, I probably run closer to 19:10. With specific training, probably 18:55. I haven't run a 5K since then. You might want to stay tuned though. After my 10 miler on March 10th, I'm going to focus on 5K and the mile through mid summer.
As for these alleged club runners doing sub 16's on <30 miles per week. Yeah, that's possible, but only if they are experienced runners with years of base mileage. But what does that have to do with the OP who is looking for marathon training advice?
How is that poor advice? Did I say "go run 60 miles starting next week"? Look at a marathon training plan. One that starts at around 40 miles per week will top out at around 60 miles per week. That's over a 16 week period. Using the 10% rule (which I don't subscribe to anyway, but it works for this illustration), that's a very conservative build up. 10% a week would have you at 60 in about 5 weeks, which is too fast and a reason that I don't use that axiom. You asked where the magic number of 60 comes from too. Well, as I stated above. 60 miles at 10 minutes per mile is 10 hours. That's a common pace for someone who is training for a second or third marathon. Having a bit of knowledge about the OP's running history helps.I think we may have to just disagree, yes base mileage is great for a new runner I am not doubting that but I will still maintain telling somone just to up there mileage by 50% is poor advice0 -
My marathon is in March and I hit the 20 mile long run December 17. Since then I have been upping my midweek mileage and have scaled back to every-other week long runs, and will be increasing my long-run mileage to 26 miles before I taper.
I wouldn't do this. Running 26 miles during training will be counter-productive. It will take you body a lot longer to recover from 26 than it will to recover from 20. You'll end up further behind, or God forbid, injured. A better idea is to increase your mid-week, mid-long run to the 12 mile range and get some doubles in a couple times a week over the last 6 weeks before tapering.
I've run three marathons now and I think I did one 22 mile run, one 21 and the rest were no more than 20. If you want to see how it all played out, there is link to my training log on my profile.0 -
I agree.......I tried to do a 16 mile run a week after running 24 miles.....I complained on this site and Carson made me realise how long it takes your body to recover.
I am really pleased I took His advice. I have since run 20 miles - no problem and My marathon is in a month.
Good luck with yours!
quote]My marathon is in March and I hit the 20 mile long run December 17. Since then I have been upping my midweek mileage and have scaled back to every-other week long runs, and will be increasing my long-run mileage to 26 miles before I taper.
I wouldn't do this. Running 26 miles during training will be counter-productive. It will take you body a lot longer to recover from 26 than it will to recover from 20. You'll end up further behind, or God forbid, injured. A better idea is to increase your mid-week, mid-long run to the 12 mile range and get some doubles in a couple times a week over the last 6 weeks before tapering.
I've run three marathons now and I think I did one 22 mile run, one 21 and the rest were no more than 20. If you want to see how it all played out, there is link to my training log on my profile.
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Thanks. I'll skip the 26miler, then. I still want to make it to 24, just for my own peace of mind. This week my mid runs were 12 Wed, day off Thurs, 8 Fri, and 8 today. I feel good after the 12 miles and I feel like I'm cheating when I run 8. I have tomorrow off and then 22 on Monday. Long runs of 16 the following Monday followed by 24 on Feb 11. I'm happy to drop back down to 20 after that- and the marathon is March 16, so that *should* give me plenty of time to recover. However I'm open to your ideas.
Here's what I've got remaining on my schedule (after nixing the 26 mile run Feb 25.) I'm starting the week at Monday (my long run day.) Monday 18 Feb I will have to work all day, so I'm not planning a long run that day and instead doing back to back 12mi runs Tue-Wed.
Week of: Mon Tue Wed Thurs Fri Sat Sun TW
1/28 22 R R 10 8 8 R 48
2/4 16 R 12 R 8 10 R 46
2/11 24 R R 10 8 10 R 52
2/18 R 12 12 R 10 10 R 44
2/25 20 R 12 R 8 6 R 46
3/4 10 R 4 R 6 3 R 23
3/11 6 R 3 R R Mar.
I really appreciate your thoughts and advice!0 -
Ugh, that formatting was terrible, sorry!
Edit: days are Mon-Sun, and total weekly mileage is at the end.0 -
Week of: Mon Tue Wed Thurs Fri Sat Sun TW
1/28 22 R R 10 8 8 R 48
2/4 16 R 12 R 8 10 R 46
2/11 24 R R 10 8 10 R 52
2/18 R 12 12 R 10 10 R 44
2/25 20 R 12 R 8 6 R 46
3/4 10 R 4 R 6 3 R 23
3/11 6 R 3 R R Mar.
I really appreciate your thoughts and advice!
I wouldn't suggest you make any changes for this marathon training cycle. If you insist on doing 24, which I think 22 would be more than enough, then make sure you are running really easy that week. If you feel at all overly tired or sore, cut back miles or take an extra day off.
For your next marathon (of course there will be another one!), I would recommend that you work up to 5 to 6 days of running each week instead of 4 to 5. Then you can do some easier runs in the 6 mile range. Using the schedule you have here, you are running over 90 minutes every time you go out there. That puts ever run into the LSD range which are more taxing on the body than an hour run. Aerobic fitness is built by cumulative mileage over time, so you don't need to be out there 90 minutes or more each time out. As you gain more fitness, a nice, easy 60 minute run will serve as recovery so you'll be ready for the next day's workout.0 -
Thanks, I didn't realize you had replied again! And thanks to you, too, Lucy! My 8 mile runs have been 70 and 71 minutes, but soon everything will be over 1.5h. I do want to work up to running more frequently and mixing it up after March. :-) It's just hard to really pull back sometimes...And yes, there will be another marathon, post April (when I have planned two laps of Tough Mudder.) Planning to do the MCM of course, and I'd like to do the Napa marathon next year. I love the training itself, but racing is so much fun- and it feels so much easier than training runs. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have told you that I don't run. Period. Go figure!0
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I dont want or need to argue with you, i have seen you have given some great advice on other threads! back to what the thread was about tho the lady wants to improve her marathon time, she isnt Elite I repeat isnt ELITE so can we please stop with what the elites are doing! we can learn from them yes!! she is at the moment a very average runner! the advice given was to up her milage nothing else, no intervals no tempo runs no track time no core work, nothing about how some strength training can make her a faster stronger runner! just up her mileage! she can build a perfectly good base on 40+ miles a week, where does the magic 60 come from? and how is it applicable to this lady?
I see even your 5k time isnt what I was expecting if your running 60+m a week!! we have club runners doing 16 minutes on less than 30m a week! when it comes a round who is going to be the faster 10k/10m/half or full runner?
I think we may have to just disagree, yes base mileage is great for a new runner I am not doubting that but I will still maintain telling somone just to up there mileage by 50% is poor advice
Not that it matters to anyone except maybe my wife and 3 children ...... but I'm a bloke. I'm fairly certain as of this morning I was still a male but I'll check again later tonight. Personally, I worry about any group who describe themselves as Elite.
I do core work on Mondays and Thursdays. I excercise in some fashion everyday. I'm not saying this is a one size fits all solution but I like it so far.
I'm upping my mileage by 10% each week and holding it at the weekly level for 2 or 3 weeks before upping it again. If I get injured I'll let you know but so far I've upped the weekly mileage by 4 miles in total and I'm running my long runs at closer to my race speed with no problems.
I did 11 miles on Saturday at 9:08 pace and this is closer to the way I was expecting to feel when training. Tired but not injured.
Don't underestimate us non-Elites!! By the way Scott for a 52 year old I'd take those times any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Hell I'd take them as a 40 year old....0 -
Not that it matters to anyone except maybe my wife and 3 children ...... but I'm a bloke. I'm fairly certain as of this morning I was still a male but I'll check again later tonight.
Doh! My bad! I took the bait and ran with the opposite gender as well.
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Be careful about getting too aggressive with the pace when building mileage. Generally you should go easy pace when increasing mileage and then only start going faster once you are comfortable for a while at the new level. If you are using a HRM that is around 75% max heart rate and below.I'm upping my mileage by 10% each week and holding it at the weekly level for 2 or 3 weeks before upping it again. If I get injured I'll let you know but so far I've upped the weekly mileage by 4 miles in total and I'm running my long runs at closer to my race speed with no problems.
I did 11 miles on Saturday at 9:08 pace and this is closer to the way I was expecting to feel when training. Tired but not injured.
From my personal experience if you push the pace too much above that when building it will work for a while but eventually accumulated fatigue will stop progress. A lower intensity will allow the body to recover with the higher volume and progress will continue.
Even the elites do the vast majority of their running at that intensity when running high volume.0 -
Even the elites do the vast majority of their running at that intensity when running high volume.
There you go bringing the elites into it again!
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Point taken Scott. This weeks run was particularly quick for no other reason than I felt good and wanted to see how I'd do. My daily runs are quite a bit slower. My weekend runs are usually around 9:30 min mile pace which is manageable.
Ran home in a storm last night ..... pretty cool !! Although there were times my legs were moving and I'm certain I was going backwards !!0 -
So how does age factor into training?. I am 50 and want to run a sub 3:30 marathon. After losing weight my comfortable pace Is 8:15 to 8:30. Should my pace be slower than that? How fast do I run my tempo runs? Should I still strive for 60 m.p.w.?0
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So how does age factor into training?. I am 50 and want to run a sub 3:30 marathon. After losing weight my comfortable pace Is 8:15 to 8:30. Should my pace be slower than that? How fast do I run my tempo runs? Should I still strive for 60 m.p.w.?
How many miles per week are you running now?
What is a current race time at a shorter distance?
Just as a comparison, I'm 45 and ran a 3:10 marathon last fall.
My easy run pace ranges from 8:30 to 10:00, the mean being around 9:15 to 9:30.
My tempo (LT) pace is around 6:40 per mile.
My weekly mileage is about 55 miles per week, peaking in the low 90s during the last marathon training cycle.
My 5K PR from last spring is 19:18.0 -
This has been really, really interesting for me to read through. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I've currently got my sights on a marathon PR for the fall. I've just lowered my miles! I was training for a 50 miler and doing lots of really long and really, really slow trail runs to prep for it. Now that that's done, I was thinking lower mileage weeks with speed work and tempo should be the way to go. The plan I was going to start following in June only has between 26 and 50 miles for the week.
May need to rethink some of this!0 -
My base is 35 to 40 currently. I am just starting my build up for my Oct 5th Marathon. I am very focussed on a peak for that particular race.
I ran a 1:41 half marathon last Saturday.
Your miles peaked higher than I anticipate ( around 60 mpw). I would love to reach higher mile weeks but fear injury. Also your tempo was much faster than what I was thinking (7:15 to 7:40 vs your 6:40). How did you come up with that and how far did you go with the Tempo, 7-8 miles?0 -
The single most important predictor of marathon performance is average weekly mileage. If you want to improve then run more.
In my opinion you should aim for averaging around 60 miles per week minimum for the 20 weeks leading up to the race for best results.
Also, most of the mileage, around 80%, should be run easy, around 75% max HR if you use a HRM. Trying to get faster by running faster all the time will not work. It will only make you really tired and eventually overwhelm your body's ability to adapt during high volume training.
Really?????????????????
Yes, really.
Another vote here! I found myself running my long runs too fast and my fast runs too slow for a long time. After making the switch, my body no longer feels so beat up and I'm running better.0 -
My base is 35 to 40 currently. I am just starting my build up for my Oct 5th Marathon. I am very focussed on a peak for that particular race.
I ran a 1:41 half marathon last Saturday.
Your miles peaked higher than I anticipate ( around 60 mpw). I would love to reach higher mile weeks but fear injury. Also your tempo was much faster than what I was thinking (7:15 to 7:40 vs your 6:40). How did you come up with that and how far did you go with the Tempo, 7-8 miles?
My coach gives me paces, but they fall in line with McMillan's calculator:
http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm
The longest I'll go at LT pace without any breaks is about 4 miles. Mind you, this is usually at the end of a 10 mile run, so there is significant warm up time. There are other ways to get more too. You can do 5x1 mile with 2:00 recovery, or 2x mile, etc. The further away from LT pace and the closer to AT pace, the longer the workbout is. For instance, a fast finish long run might be 18 miles with the last 8 at AT, which is right around MP. Daniels says that you don't really need to do more than 20 minutes for a good tempo workout.
Based on your 1:41 HM, your 7:15 to 7:40 for a tempo run is right about where you want to be, according to McMillan. Sounds like you are on the right track.0 -
The single most important predictor of marathon performance is average weekly mileage. If you want to improve then run more.
In my opinion you should aim for averaging around 60 miles per week minimum for the 20 weeks leading up to the race for best results.
Also, most of the mileage, around 80%, should be run easy, around 75% max HR if you use a HRM. Trying to get faster by running faster all the time will not work. It will only make you really tired and eventually overwhelm your body's ability to adapt during high volume training.
Really?????????????????
Yes, really.
Another vote here! I found myself running my long runs too fast and my fast runs too slow for a long time. After making the switch, my body no longer feels so beat up and I'm running better.
Ok, so how far did you run your faster fast runs? Did you do tempo or some other type if speed work?0 -
The single most important predictor of marathon performance is average weekly mileage. If you want to improve then run more.
In my opinion you should aim for averaging around 60 miles per week minimum for the 20 weeks leading up to the race for best results.
Also, most of the mileage, around 80%, should be run easy, around 75% max HR if you use a HRM. Trying to get faster by running faster all the time will not work. It will only make you really tired and eventually overwhelm your body's ability to adapt during high volume training.
Really?????????????????
Yes, really.
Another vote here! I found myself running my long runs too fast and my fast runs too slow for a long time. After making the switch, my body no longer feels so beat up and I'm running better.
Ok, so how far did you run your faster fast runs? Did you do tempo or some other type if speed work?
I think the point here, is emphasizing a common mistake newer runners make. They'll do their "easy" runs at the fast end (or faster) of their easy run pace and then when it comes time to do a tempo run, they are unable to run the correct pace because they are too beat up from all the faster running they did that was supposed to be easy.0 -
Got it. Thanks.0
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The single most important predictor of marathon performance is average weekly mileage. If you want to improve then run more.
In my opinion you should aim for averaging around 60 miles per week minimum for the 20 weeks leading up to the race for best results.
Also, most of the mileage, around 80%, should be run easy, around 75% max HR if you use a HRM. Trying to get faster by running faster all the time will not work. It will only make you really tired and eventually overwhelm your body's ability to adapt during high volume training.
Really?????????????????
Yes, really.
Another vote here! I found myself running my long runs too fast and my fast runs too slow for a long time. After making the switch, my body no longer feels so beat up and I'm running better.
Ok, so how far did you run your faster fast runs? Did you do tempo or some other type if speed work?
I think the point here, is emphasizing a common mistake newer runners make. They'll do their "easy" runs at the fast end (or faster) of their easy run pace and then when it comes time to do a tempo run, they are unable to run the correct pace because they are too beat up from all the faster running they did that was supposed to be easy.
Exactly!!0 -
This will probably piss a few people off, but: My best marathon time came during a season when I was also heavy triathlon training.
I had a really high workout volume, but much of it was on the bike or in the pool. I'm convinced - CONVINCED - that all the bike volume did wonders for my running. I was able to focus on improving my aerobic capacity without beating up my legs so much. And, although I did do a weekly long run, I was also able to put in at least 1 drills run or hard run a week. The combination of running drills and bike aerobic building was, I believe, where I got my marathon edge.
So my vote is, get in some good anaerobic workouts per week, a nice long run, and build your aerobic base in a manner that includes tons of cross training.0 -
Another tip, I increased the speed of my long runs. I didn't run at race pace, but I only ran about 30 seconds slower per mile instead of 2 minutes slower and I think that made a difference too.
I think a lot of this depends on what your easy run pace is anyway, as well as your race pace. I'm not one to advocate REALLY slowing down on a long run. If your easy run pace is 10:00 per mile, run your long run at that pace too. I don't see the need to slow it down to 11:00 or 12:00. Then, as your fitness improves, you'll find that the second half of the long run you'll run faster than the first half. So, if your marathon pace is 9:00 per mile, then doing your long runs between 9:30 and 10:00 per mile is spot on. If your marathon pace is 7:00 per, then I wouldn't run my long run at 7:30. Probably just a little too fast.
Interesting. I think perhaps this is one flaw I need to correct. I can run a 8:30 pace for a half marathon but I suspect I can't do that for a full 26 and even though 9:00 feels more on the easy side than effort I should probably do my longer runs at an IDGAF pace and not even worry about what the time or pace is. Just something between 9:00 - 9:30 pace with an occasional faster finish for the last 3 - 4 miles. I haven't done a single marathon yet. They cancelled the one I was going to run in last December but I was very confident of getting a sub 4 hour time.
Your marathon pace is crazy and looks like what I would run a 5k at. I enjoy running at any rate so I'm all on board for running 40 - 60 miles a week.0
