Painful Conversation
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JanieJack
Posts: 3,831 Member
Ugh… I felt so bad for this poor guy… I wish I knew how to avoid these kinds of convos while still getting to know someone, because he seemed like a cool guy… the end of each question got more and more awkward and I felt like all my answers were making him feel worse. I try to keep convos to light stuff, but everyone always wants to dig into the details (sigh). I finally said, let’s just stop. This is going from bad to worse. Let’s go back to talking about kids and things got fun again.
Him: blah blah blah.. .I’m pretty much the dumb box of rocks in my family… what about you, do you have any degrees?
Me: Yeah, I went to school but it’s no big deal
Him: No, No I wanna know about your degree.
Me: Master’s in Nuclear Engineering.
Him:<silence>. Wow. Ok. Ummmmm…. well your text said something about rescue mission and refugees at Bible study, what was that about?
Me: Went to the rescue mission during lunch to drop off a load of stuff and help out there a little. Then at prayer meeting tonight we welcomed about 150 refugees from New Orleans.
Him: Oh that’s great! You’re pretty serious about this church stuff {note, I’m guessing he liked this b/c he used to be a youth pastor}. I saw that you like to run what’s next for you?
Me: I just signed up for the Tough Mudder- it’s a long, muddy, obstacle course
Him:<silence> Yeah. I’ve heard of it. Wow. So you’re really serious. Hmmm. I’ll run a few miles but nothing like that.
Me: Well, I’m not that serious. My friends are gonna have to help me finish- I can’t do that on my own. And besides, I don’t really “like” running, it just helps me eat more and still keep my job.
Him: Oh yeah, that's right, you’re in the military. I was in the military too, you know- enlisted in the Army. Did one tour and got out. How long you been in?
Me: I’ve been in 15 years.
Him: <silence > Oh. And, um, what rank are you? Do you mind telling me?
Me: <sigh> yes I kinda mind telling you but I might as well. I’m XYZ rank.
Him: <silence> well, um, um, um, that doesn’t bother me at all. No… um… I don’t care. That’s cool, its just a job.
Me: yeah it’s just a job
Him: no big deal. Doesn’t, um, change who you are… I mean, um, you could still be a nice person and all… um… maybe… um…
Me: Ok, let’s just stop. This is going from bad to worse. Let’s go back to talking about our kids.
Him: I took my son to see XYZ movie….
(the convo was salvaged, and he had fun talking about his kids and such but I’ll be surprised if he calls again)
Him: blah blah blah.. .I’m pretty much the dumb box of rocks in my family… what about you, do you have any degrees?
Me: Yeah, I went to school but it’s no big deal
Him: No, No I wanna know about your degree.
Me: Master’s in Nuclear Engineering.
Him:<silence>. Wow. Ok. Ummmmm…. well your text said something about rescue mission and refugees at Bible study, what was that about?
Me: Went to the rescue mission during lunch to drop off a load of stuff and help out there a little. Then at prayer meeting tonight we welcomed about 150 refugees from New Orleans.
Him: Oh that’s great! You’re pretty serious about this church stuff {note, I’m guessing he liked this b/c he used to be a youth pastor}. I saw that you like to run what’s next for you?
Me: I just signed up for the Tough Mudder- it’s a long, muddy, obstacle course
Him:<silence> Yeah. I’ve heard of it. Wow. So you’re really serious. Hmmm. I’ll run a few miles but nothing like that.
Me: Well, I’m not that serious. My friends are gonna have to help me finish- I can’t do that on my own. And besides, I don’t really “like” running, it just helps me eat more and still keep my job.
Him: Oh yeah, that's right, you’re in the military. I was in the military too, you know- enlisted in the Army. Did one tour and got out. How long you been in?
Me: I’ve been in 15 years.
Him: <silence > Oh. And, um, what rank are you? Do you mind telling me?
Me: <sigh> yes I kinda mind telling you but I might as well. I’m XYZ rank.
Him: <silence> well, um, um, um, that doesn’t bother me at all. No… um… I don’t care. That’s cool, its just a job.
Me: yeah it’s just a job
Him: no big deal. Doesn’t, um, change who you are… I mean, um, you could still be a nice person and all… um… maybe… um…
Me: Ok, let’s just stop. This is going from bad to worse. Let’s go back to talking about our kids.
Him: I took my son to see XYZ movie….
(the convo was salvaged, and he had fun talking about his kids and such but I’ll be surprised if he calls again)
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Replies
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Wow that was painful to read, so I can only imagine actually having the conversation. I hope he can see past all that. But if not he is just not the right guy.0
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The turning point in the conversation was Master's in Nuclear Engineering. BTW, I was unaware that you had a Master's in Nuclear Engineering.
The next few thoughts that I am going to write are going to spark some discussion, but I seem to do that in here with some degree of regularity.
Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
When a guy has an in demand Master's Degree and good job prospects and/or history, his dating pool widens. Men with Master's have no problems with a woman with just a Bachelor's or even those who did not complete college.
A man's career, education and earning capacity matter to a woman. A woman's education, career and earning capacity matter less to men. A guy who is more likely to appreciate a money making woman isn't a guy that the big money making woman wants because this is typically a guy with diminished earning power.
That's a big part of why your conversation went off track.0 -
Wow..........so sorry JJ!! :flowerforyou: I know you know this already, but if he can't handle what you told him, that's on him. Good luck and keep having fun in the mean time.0
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Yeah, if he has to compare himself to you and your accomplishments and doesn't feel like he measures, he's not the guy for you. I have to say that I really think he doesn't see himself as measuring up. When I've been asked similar kinds of questions, the guys I've talked to who are confident in who they are and their own achievements in life respond quickly and think it's cool that I have this job or that degree. A Master's in Nuclear Engineering? A great response would "How cool is that?" - I would be impressed!
You need a guy that is going to be impressed with what you've done - not one for whom you have to downplay all the things you've done or now do that make you the person who you are today, IMO. You're moving in a few weeks anyway though, aren't you?0 -
You should see how much the dating pool shrinks for those of us with a PhD!Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.0 -
You should see how much the dating pool shrinks for those of us with a PhD!Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
It shrinks as much as you allow it to.0 -
Ugh… I felt so bad for this poor guy… I wish I knew how to avoid these kinds of convos while still getting to know someone, because he seemed like a cool guy… the end of each question got more and more awkward and I felt like all my answers were making him feel worse. I try to keep convos to light stuff, but everyone always wants to dig into the details (sigh). I finally said, let’s just stop. This is going from bad to worse. Let’s go back to talking about kids and things got fun again.
Him: blah blah blah.. .I’m pretty much the dumb box of rocks in my family… what about you, do you have any degrees?
Me: Yeah, I went to school but it’s no big deal
Him: No, No I wanna know about your degree.
Me: Master’s in Nuclear Engineering.
Him:<silence>. Wow. Ok. Ummmmm…. well your text said something about rescue mission and refugees at Bible study, what was that about?
Me: Went to the rescue mission during lunch to drop off a load of stuff and help out there a little. Then at prayer meeting tonight we welcomed about 150 refugees from New Orleans.
Him: Oh that’s great! You’re pretty serious about this church stuff {note, I’m guessing he liked this b/c he used to be a youth pastor}. I saw that you like to run what’s next for you?
Me: I just signed up for the Tough Mudder- it’s a long, muddy, obstacle course
Him:<silence> Yeah. I’ve heard of it. Wow. So you’re really serious. Hmmm. I’ll run a few miles but nothing like that.
Me: Well, I’m not that serious. My friends are gonna have to help me finish- I can’t do that on my own. And besides, I don’t really “like” running, it just helps me eat more and still keep my job.
Him: Oh yeah, that's right, you’re in the military. I was in the military too, you know- enlisted in the Army. Did one tour and got out. How long you been in?
Me: I’ve been in 15 years.
Him: <silence > Oh. And, um, what rank are you? Do you mind telling me?
Me: <sigh> yes I kinda mind telling you but I might as well. I’m XYZ rank.
Him: <silence> well, um, um, um, that doesn’t bother me at all. No… um… I don’t care. That’s cool, its just a job.
Me: yeah it’s just a job
Him: no big deal. Doesn’t, um, change who you are… I mean, um, you could still be a nice person and all… um… maybe… um…
Me: Ok, let’s just stop. This is going from bad to worse. Let’s go back to talking about our kids.
Him: I took my son to see XYZ movie….
(the convo was salvaged, and he had fun talking about his kids and such but I’ll be surprised if he calls again)
You don't need a gentleman to match your excellent resume of professional,educational and personal achievements you just need a man who can match your self assurance and ego. This I feel will be a tough task, good luck.0 -
You should see how much the dating pool shrinks for those of us with a PhD!Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
It shrinks as much as you allow it to.
THANK YOU!!
Of course there will be some people who have their own insecurities (as I suspect the guy mentioned by Janie does) but overall education level (and earning potential as DM mentioned) are ridiculous reasons not to date someone. I've gone out with guys who had much less or far more than I do in both money and education...bottom line is that they are all still human men! Do I have a preference for a guy who has some intellect and can hold a conversation? Absolutely. However, I'll use this group as a microcosm and note that we are all at varying levels of education and career paths and yet we manage to have intellectual conversations all the time!0 -
You know, after thinking about this more I came to a realization. Janie, correct me if I'm wrong here. But you aren't looking for someone that isn't necessarily as educated as you are, but someone with the same kind of "drive" in life? I have dated men with various levels of education and it hasn't really mattered to me, although stimluating conversation can be hard to come by. But it tends to be an indication of the level of internal drive a person has to achieve something in their life. I could be all wrong, but thought it was worth throwing out there because it's what I have experienced.0
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I'm going to go hide under my desk with my high school diploma
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I'm going to go hide under my desk with my high school diploma
Make room for me sweetpea, . I only have an associates.0 -
Wow that was painful to read, so I can only imagine actually having the conversation. I hope he can see past all that. But if not he is just not the right guy.
I take umbridge with this wording (not you personally), I don't think there's anything he needs to "see past". Janie is a strong, accomplished woman and if he's threatened by that, then that's his ish and she deserves someone that can respect and value these amazing qualities that by no means is something to hide or be ashamed of.
One of the most irksome parts of the conversation is when you told him your rank and he said "You might still be a good person"? I admire your restraint, I would have had a few choice words for him right there. Gwah! I am frustrated just reading this.
you just need a man who can match your self assurance and ego. This I feel will be a tough task, good luck.
Please tell me you didn't mean "ego" as a negative.0 -
I started telling guys in bars that I was a flight attendant. For some reason they think its sexy. Biochemist just makes their eyes glaze over.0
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One of the most irksome parts of the conversation is when you told him your rank and he said "You might still be a good person"? I admire your restraint, I would have had a few choice words for him right there. Gwah! I am frustrated just reading this.
I have to agree with this. Why would someone being accomplished in their field ever make them a bad person?0 -
Yeah, if he has to compare himself to you and your accomplishments and doesn't feel like he measures, he's not the guy for you. I have to say that I really think he doesn't see himself as measuring up.
See, that’s the problem. I know this about guys and I’m NOT worried about finding a man who measures up to my accomplishments, so I try to avoid having this kind of convo early on. I’m looking for a man that makes me feel like a woman, that protects me and takes care of me, and that’s fun to be around. These things like that which are NOT dependent on degrees or rank or accomplishments. So I really hate it when guys get into “interview mode” and start off with these kinds of things because either I answer them and he gets intimidated, or I evade the question and then he thinks I have something to hide. Either way, we never have a fair shot at getting to know each other first.
Exactly. Two of my favorite 3 boyfriends were guys who had no degrees. One owned some bars and one ran a local burger joint. Both very driven. Both very “manly.” Both good with (and good at reading) people (something I search for in a partner). Neither could care less about my job or money I made or any of that. All they cared about was when I got home from work and took the uniform off I was “their woman.” In each case, we had a couple of great months together until circumstances forced us apart.You know, after thinking about this more I came to a realization. Janie, correct me if I'm wrong here. But you aren't looking for someone that isn't necessarily as educated as you are, but someone with the same kind of "drive" in life?
If a guy takes himself out of the running, that’s his problem. I just wish I knew a way to delicately answer his questions to prevent him from taking himself out of the running unnecessarily.0 -
One of the most irksome parts of the conversation is when you told him your rank and he said "You might still be a good person"? I admire your restraint, I would have had a few choice words for him right there. Gwah! I am frustrated just reading this.
I have to agree with this. Why would someone being accomplished in their field ever make them a bad person?
Most middle management folks in the military are real jerks.
I actually take it as a compliment when people are surprised I've been in the military this long.
FWIW, I didn't write this part but at the end of the convo he went back and complimented all my profile pics, telling me how beautiful I was. If he calls/writes back I'll try to be more gentle, lol.0 -
I started telling guys in bars that I was a flight attendant. For some reason they think its sexy. Biochemist just makes their eyes glaze over.
Wow, that's kinda depressing...
--P0 -
I wish I had better advice for you, JJ. I've only ever dated one civilian since I joined the military, but I can assume you're way higher ranking than I am, so even dating someone in the military would be a challenge. Oh well, at least you only have about 5 years left till you can retire, right? :flowerforyou: I'm sure once you get back from your deployment and go to your next duty station, there will be a perfect man or men waiting for you.
Which Tough Mudder are ya doin? I'm doing one in Austin on October 6th. There is a Spartan Race down here in Mississippi in November, too! :bigsmile:0 -
I started telling guys in bars that I was a flight attendant. For some reason they think its sexy. Biochemist just makes their eyes glaze over.
haha... my standard answer when someone asks what I do in the military is "admin work." They nod their head, smile, and get all into the convo.
When I’m no longer interested in a guy, one of the first things I do is tell him about the Nuke degree. 70% of the time, his eyes glaze over and the convo/date/chat quickly ends.0 -
I think what I wrote isn't being taken the way I intended. I don't exclude men who don't have a degree to match my own. That would be ridiculous, especially as my PhD was a means to an end, the career I want, much like an apprenticeship might be for an electrician. What I mean is people take themselves out of my pool just like they might do so because I'm too fat for them, not pretty enough or whatever reason they might choose to exclude me. I'm not generalizing, but the proof is in my inbox. I don't get contacted by men below a certain level of education or career accomplishment (not counting the stupid one word "hi" messages or others like it from people who have clearly not looked at my profile).
You should see how much the dating pool shrinks for those of us with a PhD!Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
It shrinks as much as you allow it to.
THANK YOU!!
Of course there will be some people who have their own insecurities (as I suspect the guy mentioned by Janie does) but overall education level (and earning potential as DM mentioned) are ridiculous reasons not to date someone. I've gone out with guys who had much less or far more than I do in both money and education...bottom line is that they are all still human men! Do I have a preference for a guy who has some intellect and can hold a conversation? Absolutely. However, I'll use this group as a microcosm and note that we are all at varying levels of education and career paths and yet we manage to have intellectual conversations all the time!
I'm not a snob about my education and I don't see it as being better than someone else's. A person is not in total control of the size of their dating pool because potential matches can and do leave that pool for their own reasons.
Sorry for the sidetrack from your OP, Janie. I really don't want people to think I'm implying that everyone needs to have a university education to be hold an intelligent conversation or to be intelligent. I don't believe that and I wouldn't dream of insulting the people here like that intentionally. I'm merely referring to my pool of matches and similar conversations like this among other women in the same boat. If anything, I'm trying to say that the PhD is a disadvantage for dating largely - so please no hiding under the desk!!!
Everyone here should be proud of who they are and what they bring to the table, whatever that is, and not have to be apologetic to their dates when that information is shared with them. :flowerforyou:0
