Painful Conversation
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I'm trying to say that the PhD is a disadvantage for dating largely - so please no hiding under the desk!!!
Yeah! HS diploma or a classes seem to be what guys WANT, at least around here. So hold your head up high and enjoy the advantage!!
One of my girlfriends took the officer program and she said that her dating prospects shrunk immediately when she did that. Last summer she got promoted to Major and hasn’t been asked out since. She’s still the same great person she was as a staff seargent, but the guys are just intimidated.Everyone here should be proud of who they are and what they bring to the table, whatever that is, and not have to be apologetic to their dates when that information is shared with them. :flowerforyou:
Absolutely!0 -
So what rank ARE YOU?0
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Ladies, I'm sorry but I think you're using this as an excuse. Education is one realm in life... someone else might be great looking, really hard worker, traveled more... on and on. JJ's guy is clearly insecure with his own life. I saw nothing in your conversation that would intimidate a guy with confidence in himself.
If you want to know something that is truly intimating to a guy, it's the amount of dates and attention some women get from other guys.0 -
I think what I wrote isn't being taken the way I intended. I don't exclude men who don't have a degree to match my own. That would be ridiculous, especially as my PhD was a means to an end, the career I want, much like an apprenticeship might be for an electrician. What I mean is people take themselves out of my pool just like they might do so because I'm too fat for them, not pretty enough or whatever reason they might choose to exclude me. I'm not generalizing, but the proof is in my inbox. I don't get contacted by men below a certain level of education or career accomplishment (not counting the stupid one word "hi" messages or others like it from people who have clearly not looked at my profile).
You should see how much the dating pool shrinks for those of us with a PhD!Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
It shrinks as much as you allow it to.
THANK YOU!!
Of course there will be some people who have their own insecurities (as I suspect the guy mentioned by Janie does) but overall education level (and earning potential as DM mentioned) are ridiculous reasons not to date someone. I've gone out with guys who had much less or far more than I do in both money and education...bottom line is that they are all still human men! Do I have a preference for a guy who has some intellect and can hold a conversation? Absolutely. However, I'll use this group as a microcosm and note that we are all at varying levels of education and career paths and yet we manage to have intellectual conversations all the time!
I'm not a snob about my education and I don't see it as being better than someone else's. A person is not in total control of the size of their dating pool because potential matches can and do leave that pool for their own reasons.
Sorry for the sidetrack from your OP, Janie. I really don't want people to think I'm implying that everyone needs to have a university education to be hold an intelligent conversation or to be intelligent. I don't believe that and I wouldn't dream of insulting the people here like that intentionally. I'm merely referring to my pool of matches and similar conversations like this among other women in the same boat. If anything, I'm trying to say that the PhD is a disadvantage for dating largely - so please no hiding under the desk!!!
Everyone here should be proud of who they are and what they bring to the table, whatever that is, and not have to be apologetic to their dates when that information is shared with them. :flowerforyou:
I'm sorry if my quote came across wrong. Personally I didn't think you were being a snob at all - I think anyone who won't date you because of that one qualifier is.
I get what you're saying that you believe some people eliminate you immediately because of that (especially online) but perhaps a way top combat that would be to change your profile? Do you think that there is a chance that that fact combined with some of what you have written could be what scares men away? Or sounds too serious? Just a thought...0 -
Wow that was painful to read, so I can only imagine actually having the conversation. I hope he can see past all that. But if not he is just not the right guy.
I take umbridge with this wording (not you personally), I don't think there's anything he needs to "see past". Janie is a strong, accomplished woman and if he's threatened by that, then that's his ish and she deserves someone that can respect and value these amazing qualities that by no means is something to hide or be ashamed of.
One of the most irksome parts of the conversation is when you told him your rank and he said "You might still be a good person"? I admire your restraint, I would have had a few choice words for him right there. Gwah! I am frustrated just reading this.
you just need a man who can match your self assurance and ego. This I feel will be a tough task, good luck.
Please tell me you didn't mean "ego" as a negative.
Oh no. My narcissism, self confidence and self image border on egotistical and I ask God to work with me everyday on my humility, It is a constant work in progress. So I like how the OP regularly has a hint of vanity in her post/comments.
I do understand my initial reaction to the post was a touch sexist cause in our society when men exude and espouse confidence in themselves they are lauded but we expect women to be a little more contrite and demure. So great job to the OP for giving
Us insight into the dating complexities women face by being accomplished.0 -
I'm going to be honest in my thoughts here. Sorry if it comes out wrong, but I just want to make a point.Him: blah blah blah.. .I’m pretty much the dumb box of rocks in my family… what about you, do you have any degrees?
Me: Yeah, I went to school but it’s no big deal
When you say, "yeah, I went to school but it's no big deal," I think it kind of makes into a big deal, where a question like this shouldn't be. A better answer would have been "Yeah, I have a master's degree." When you try and hide things about yourself, they actually become more obvious. Then he could have said, "oh, that's awesome, what field?"Him: No, No I wanna know about your degree.
Me: Master’s in Nuclear Engineering.
Him:<silence>. Wow. Ok. Ummmmm….
After this, I would have said something to the effect of, "yes, school was hard but I love my job. I also like to ______."Him: Oh yeah, that's right, you’re in the military. I was in the military too, you know- enlisted in the Army. Did one tour and got out. How long you been in?
Me: I’ve been in 15 years.
Him: <silence > Oh. And, um, what rank are you? Do you mind telling me?
Me: <sigh> yes I kinda mind telling you but I might as well. I’m XYZ rank.
I'm not sure how the military works, but is it a big deal to tell a civilian your ranking? Again, by saying, "I kinda mind telling you," you're making it into a bigger deal than it needs to be. I would have answer with, "Yes, I'm a _______."Him: <silence> well, um, um, um, that doesn’t bother me at all. No… um… I don’t care. That’s cool, its just a job.
Me: yeah it’s just a job
Him: no big deal. Doesn’t, um, change who you are… I mean, um, you could still be a nice person and all… um… maybe… um…
Me: Ok, let’s just stop. This is going from bad to worse. Let’s go back to talking about our kids.
Him: I took my son to see XYZ movie….
I personally wouldn't have acknowledged that it was awkward. I would have said something like, "So, what do you do now that you're out of the military?" Or if you already know, I would have said, "so you're a _______. how do you like that?"
I think we all make bigger deals of differing education levels and such. When we think it's a big deal, it becomes a big deal. Just go with the flow, and don't discount someone because he or she didn't graduate high school, or has a PhD. And if the person can't deal with the fact that you have no education or a lot of education, they're not the person for you.
Don't hide who you are because you're scared of what a guy or girl you like might think. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, take time to find that person's before you discount them.0 -
For the record, having a PhD shrinks the dating pool for men too. People associate it with being uber-smart and no one male or female, wants to feel stupid. Additionally, I've found that a lot of women who are less educated are suspicious that my on,ly interest in them is for sex.0
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Oh no. My narcissism, self confidence and self image border on egotistical and I ask God to work with me everyday on my humility, It is a constant work in progress. So I like how the OP regularly has a hint of vanity in her post/comments.
I do understand my initial reaction to the post was a touch sexist cause in our society when men exude and espouse confidence in themselves they are lauded but we expect women to be a little more contrite and demure. So great job to the OP for giving
Us insight into the dating complexities women face by being accomplished.
I think the difference between confidence and pride is that one is earned and the other is not. Both are "ego". As far as vanity, I never get that vibe from JJ at all. I believe that humility is a tool created by those that don't succeed to bring down people that do. Janie is not vain, she aught to be proud of her life, she shouldn't be afraid to scream it from the rooftops but people are constantly using these successes against her because heavens forbid someone is perceived to be more successful in life than another.
It makes me genuinely sad that a woman like JJ has a hard time finding a man because of losers that insist she has something to be apologetic for.
Janie, the only thing you did wrong was make excuses so that the guy could feel more comfortable around you, or act chagrined in any way. You deserve so much better. I know so many guys that would hear these things about you and LOVE IT. I don't know if it's where you live but here in so cal there's a lot of geeky guys that would love to get their hands on you AND your brains.
They're not zombies I promise.0 -
So, I guess this thread means I should be grateful that I'm just an administrative assistant?0
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Oh no. My narcissism, self confidence and self image border on egotistical and I ask God to work with me everyday on my humility, It is a constant work in progress. So I like how the OP regularly has a hint of vanity in her post/comments.
I do understand my initial reaction to the post was a touch sexist cause in our society when men exude and espouse confidence in themselves they are lauded but we expect women to be a little more contrite and demure. So great job to the OP for giving
Us insight into the dating complexities women face by being accomplished.
I think the difference between confidence and pride is that one is earned and the other is not. Both are "ego". As far as vanity, I never get that vibe from JJ at all. I believe that humility is a tool created by those that don't succeed to bring down people that do. Janie is not vain, she aught to be proud of her life, she shouldn't be afraid to scream it from the rooftops but people are constantly using these successes against her because heavens forbid someone is perceived to be more successful in life than another.
It makes me genuinely sad that a woman like JJ has a hard time finding a man because of losers that insist she has something to be apologetic for.
Janie, the only thing you did wrong was make excuses so that the guy could feel more comfortable around you, or act chagrined in any way. You deserve so much better. I know so many guys that would hear these things about you and LOVE IT. I don't know if it's where you live but here in so cal there's a lot of geeky guys that would love to get their hands on you AND your brains.
They're not zombies I promise.
Vanity, ego, pride, confidence, who has it who doesn't is all speculation ,opinion and conjecture. I like the OPs confidence especially in a world brimming with women who have esteem issues. Between some of the long comments one guy snuck in a short about what the OP 's guy lacked .SELF CONFIDENCE. Bingo. That was the winning comment. in my post divorce days I dated a MD, PHD and a dentist back to back to back and it wasn't a problem cause I had the depth and breath in my conversation, confidence and treated them like a lady.
I mean really you can meet a garbage man with a GED who will treat you like Mr Grey did Ana if he has the self esteem to do so and a woman has the willingness to have it happen . I think the notion that men are cowering in the corner from accomplished women is ridiculous.0 -
will treat you like Mr Grey did Ana if he has the self esteem to do so
I don't know who these people are?0 -
will treat you like Mr Grey did Ana if he has the self esteem to do so
I don't know who these people are?
50 shaedes of Grey (and I haven't even read the book)0 -
Am I the only guy here who is slightly turned off by a women who's an academic and career all-star? Seems like everytime I meet a girl who's a lawyer or doctor type, they always act like they have something to prove. Most wear their J.D. or M.D. on their sleeve usually lead a conversation with that.
I have an undergraduate degree in electrical engineering (though I work in a completely different field) and there are A LOT of highly educated women where I work. Most feel the need that they need to "flex their muscle" and "rock the boat" extra hard because they think they have to prove themselves to the guys. I deal with it on a daily basis and gets annoying.
Just my experience.. take it with a grain of salt.0 -
Ahhh.....thank you. I prefer a shop rat over a professional anything any day.0
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Ahhh.....thank you. I prefer a shop rat over a professional anything any day.
Amen to this^^^^0 -
you believe some people eliminate you immediately because of that (especially online) but perhaps a way top combat that would be to change your profile?
Unfortunately, I think educated men and women have withhold info on their online dating profiles. When I first signed up for Match, I answered the question "Where do you see yourself in 5 years" with a very honest "Getting a PhD." I got VERY little attention until I deleted that.
When Dave, who mentioned the PhD being a hindrance for men too, posted a sample profile for review long time ago, my #1 comment was to remove his degree because what I knew of him in the forum indicated he would not be compatible with the typical type of woman who would be attracted to a man with that PhD.0 -
So, I guess this thread means I should be grateful that I'm just an administrative assistant?
Dude... did you just say "JUST an administrative assistant?" I am not fooled. Those ladies secretly RULE the world.0 -
Why would I pretend school was hard? I can see the value of trying to downplay it, but it only comes across as false humility because it’s not true. And that irritates people moreAfter this, I would have said something to the effect of, "yes, school was hard but I love my job. I also like to ______."
No, most civilian guys have no clue so it doesn’t matter. But this guy said in one of his previous texts he was in the military and couldn’t hack it so left at a very junior rank (only one tour). I, personally, have ho issue with this because there are many reasons someone couldn’t hack it in the military- an analytical, think outside the box personality (that I love) being one of them. But I know HE is gonna freak, because when he finds out I’ve been in 15 years he’s gonna think I won’t give him a chance.I'm not sure how the military works, but is it a big deal to tell a civilian your ranking?I personally wouldn't have acknowledged that it was awkward. I would have said something like, "So, what do you do now that you're out of the military?" Or if you already know, I would have said, "so you're a _______. how do you like that?"
True, but I’ve been down this road before. When a guy wants to get through his pre-determined questions, if you don’t put a stop to it he just keeps working down the list… not realizing that he is making it awkward and lessoning his chance of actually getting to meet you. I felt like this was a good way to let him know I didn’t want to continue talking about this stuff but that I was still interested in talking to him. Would love some male feedback if there are better ways, such as what Christine suggested above, to have communicated this to him. He really did sound like a cool guy.Don't hide who you are because you're scared of what a guy or girl you like might think. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, take time to find that person's before you discount them.
My post is not about being scared of what the guy thinks of me. It’s about trying to find a way to communicate honestly while still putting him at ease so he can get to know me so that by time he learns these things about me, they will not matter to him. I’m much better with generic (though still 100% true) answers (like “I do admin work”) that help this out. But when a guy comes out and directly asks I still have trouble crafting answers that are still honest yet not intimidating.0 -
Am I the only guy here who is slightly turned off by a women who's an academic and career all-star?
No... you're just the only one strong enough to admit it in public
FWIW, my “something to prove” days are over. I’ve realized something that many of my female peers haven’t yet figured out: I don’t need to BE a man… and I don’t need to wait for the mythical man who sees us as 100% equals in all areas. Rather, I need a partner… a man who complements me. "Everything a man can do, I can do better" is rubbish. I’m the strong one 70-100% in some areas, and he’s the strong one 70-100% in some areas. Together we are an undefeatable, happy, passionate team.0 -
I’m not looking for a man to be impressed with me. I have yet to have a guy who was impressed by me fall in love with me. In fact, men that highly respect my accomplishments are often VERY disappointed when they discover that off duty I’m girly/blingy, goofy, and have simple tastes.0
