Painful Conversation
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I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.
Mike's point is correct in summarizing what many men think about a woman's education level.
In a hypothetical situation, a good looking woman with an AA from a community college will probably be more than desirable to the average man than a lesser attractive woman with an MBA from a top 5 school and a job commensurate with a top 5 school MBA. The average 25 year old Hooters waitress has more demand from men than a 27 year old recent grad from Harvard Business School working at McKinsey as a consultant.0 -
Janie, you and I have talked about this before. My education background is BS in Psychology and MS Ed in Mental Health Counseling. I think that for me the Master's isn't as intimidating as the mental health counseling part. lol
I really hate that part of the getting to know you process.
*So, did you go to college?
* Yes
* What did you get a degree in?
* Psychology and Master's in Mental Health Counseling
* OH NO! So you are totally analyzing me right now aren't you? What do you think so far?
* Lord.
* No really, tell me.
* Meh, nope.
And on and on and on. Happens almost every time. Or the guy gets really quiet. Same happens when I am asked what I do for a living.
Maybe I should go back to bartending. I had more luck then. And it was FUN! lol0 -
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Really? Our experiences are SO different! Almost everyone I work with has a degree, and the guys LOVE to hit on/date waitresses.0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.
Yes, this makes me feel so much better. Thanks. :ohwell:0 -
The average 25 year old Hooters waitress has more demand from men than a 27 year old recent grad from Harvard Business School working at McKinsey as a consultant.
Well no *kitten*, Sherlock...which just proves my point, that no guy will take a waitress seriously.0 -
Wow. Interesting thread all of a sudden... ;-)
I suppose I could seriously date a waitress, but she needs to be intelligent. She doesn't need an MA from MIT (or any degree, for that matter), but she needs to be intelligent, interesting, etc. Statistically speaking, I'm sure there are some very intelligent waitresses, but quite frankly, the odds are not in her favor. Ergo, I'm not typically looking to date a waitress, although - again - there can be exceptions, and I'd never rule anyone out just because of their job, or lack of degree.
Besides, there are lots of reasons why people are working at jobs that are what some would consider beneath them. They had to support an unexpected child, never had the money in the first place, never had the support or encouragement at home, never believed in themselves, made bad decisions when young, whatever. Perhaps they just love their job, and never cared about maximizing their earnings potential. Money isn't everything, after all.... Key question is whether they are intelligent, well read, kind, etc. Nothing is black and white! But again, statistically speaking, I wouldn't expect to find my soul mate bussing tables at Denny's (possible, not likely).
I grant you the Hooters waitress is probably more in demand than the Harvard graduate, but that is just a testament to the bad decisions that men, especially younger men, make. And "in demand" is probably defined as "wanted sexually." Again, it's about statistics: I'm sure there are some intelligent, interesting, worldly, Hooters waitresses, without a doubt. However, we're probably talking 5%. Whereas I'm fairly confident that 95% of McKinsey consultants are intelligent, interesting, worldly, etc. (99.99% are intelligent, but slightly fewer are interesting and worldly).
If you are an intelligent male, and "large breasts" are more important to you than "lived in France for two years and speaks fluent French," then fine. But my guess is that in six months you'll regret your prioritization.
Not that there's anything wrong with large breasts per se.... :-)
--P0 -
Not that there's anything wrong with large breasts per se.... :-)
--P
I certainly hope not!0 -
This is, of course, assuming that the waitress is smokin' hot and the girls with the masters is frumpy.
At least that's the gist I'm getting because no one bothered to clarify.
If both girls were equally hot, the amount of interest in the girls changes, I would think.0 -
This is, of course, assuming that the waitress is smokin' hot and the girls with the masters is frumpy.
At least that's the gist I'm getting because no one bothered to clarify.
If both girls were equally hot, the amount of interest in the girls changes, I would think.
I agree with this. Taking a fictional movie character are you guys saying you would rather have Reese Witherspoon at the begining of Legally Blonde vs her at the end of it? Same person but one is the typical ditzy blonde with no real ambition in life other then to marry while the other has a law degree and has career on the fast track?0 -
Wow. Interesting thread all of a sudden... ;-)
I suppose I could seriously date a waitress, but she needs to be intelligent. She doesn't need an MA from MIT (or any degree, for that matter), but she needs to be intelligent, interesting, etc. Statistically speaking, I'm sure there are some very intelligent waitresses, but quite frankly, the odds are not in her favor.
The odds are not in her favor that she's intelligent, interesting, etc, or the odds are not in her favor that someone would be interested in a trying to get past the stereotype and date a waitress?
And I'm talking a waitress at a nice place, not Denny's or Hooters.0 -
The turning point in the conversation was Master's in Nuclear Engineering. BTW, I was unaware that you had a Master's in Nuclear Engineering.
The next few thoughts that I am going to write are going to spark some discussion, but I seem to do that in here with some degree of regularity.
Women with Master's Level degrees and jobs that are typically correlated with a Master's Degree see their dating pool shrink. Women prefer to date equal or upwards in education and salary. A typical guy with a Bachelor's of a similar age to a woman with a Master's isn't going to be interested. Guys with some college or just a high school education are even less likely to be interested. A guy with a Bachelor's and 15 years of post Bachelor's working experience might be interested in a newly minted female Master's Degree holder.
When a guy has an in demand Master's Degree and good job prospects and/or history, his dating pool widens. Men with Master's have no problems with a woman with just a Bachelor's or even those who did not complete college.
A man's career, education and earning capacity matter to a woman. A woman's education, career and earning capacity matter less to men. A guy who is more likely to appreciate a money making woman isn't a guy that the big money making woman wants because this is typically a guy with diminished earning power.
That's a big part of why your conversation went off track.
holy crap this is right on point. ugh. very disappointing but yes i find that smart successfull women have a very small dating pool and if we wanna date our equals or better its almost impossible.0 -
I agree with JJ, its not so much what they do but how they make u feel. its very attractive for a man to be able to both respect you as an accomplished and intelligent woman but still treat you like a girl if that makes sense.Yeah, if he has to compare himself to you and your accomplishments and doesn't feel like he measures, he's not the guy for you. I have to say that I really think he doesn't see himself as measuring up.
See, that’s the problem. I know this about guys and I’m NOT worried about finding a man who measures up to my accomplishments, so I try to avoid having this kind of convo early on. I’m looking for a man that makes me feel like a woman, that protects me and takes care of me, and that’s fun to be around. These things like that which are NOT dependent on degrees or rank or accomplishments. So I really hate it when guys get into “interview mode” and start off with these kinds of things because either I answer them and he gets intimidated, or I evade the question and then he thinks I have something to hide. Either way, we never have a fair shot at getting to know each other first.0 -
Am I the only guy here who is slightly turned off by a women who's an academic and career all-star?
No... you're just the only one strong enough to admit it in public
FWIW, my “something to prove” days are over. I’ve realized something that many of my female peers haven’t yet figured out: I don’t need to BE a man… and I don’t need to wait for the mythical man who sees us as 100% equals in all areas. Rather, I need a partner… a man who complements me. "Everything a man can do, I can do better" is rubbish. I’m the strong one 70-100% in some areas, and he’s the strong one 70-100% in some areas. Together we are an undefeatable, happy, passionate team.
I understand where Mike is coming from and agree with Janie on this. Thankfully those days are behind me (though I JUST have my undergrad in engineering
) of feeling the need to prove I can be better than men. I actually enjoy getting to be feminine AND smart now, haha!
Is it just me or are there an awful lot of engineers on here? Pattern? Anyone care to analyze the probability? :laugh:
lol girl power0 -
I understand where Mike is coming from and agree with Janie on this. Thankfully those days are behind me (though I JUST have my undergrad in engineering ) of feeling the need to prove I can be better than men. I actually enjoy getting to be feminine AND smart now, haha!
Is it just me or are there an awful lot of engineers on here? Pattern? Anyone care to analyze the probability? :laugh:
I think there are a handful of us on here. Are you EE?
I'm always curious to talk to other engineers and see what they do for a living.
I'm a CE. I have worked on the design of roads, bridges and levees.
Mike I didnt know you were an engineer?0 -
EE
--P0 -
This is for discussion,is a generalization to a degree and probably colored by some gender bias so with that disclaimer here I go.
It seems that women are emotionally swayed in some way by the wealthy and/or seemingly powerful man that carries himself with an air of invincibility or arrogance that their crap doesn`t stink.
The popularity of the 50 shades book lends to that.
Men on the other hand are turned off by that attitude and behavior from BOTH other men and women yet ladies don`t sense this in us.
As a result they think it means that all we want is demur and subservient people rather then understand that we as guys like very much someone who is engaging and independent.
Since they tend to like the domineering guy some try to duplicate it without understanding the average guy does not like that from anyone so they end up feeling that things are unfair and guys are intimidated.
The truth is we simply look at it as a negative regardless who it is coming from.
Make any sense despite the short area one has to post things?
Or flame away...it is all good.:drinker:0 -
Or, on the opposite end of the spectrum, those of us who are "just" waitresses. We must be completely uneducated and therefore very undesirable. :huh:
That's not the case. The point I made at the beginning of the conversation is that the highly educated, high earning powerful women are having a hard time keeping men interested. This is mostly a syndrome of women with advanced degrees, and some women with Bachelor's. Men with Bachelor's and Master's and a fairly routine career and usually open to waitresses, but there's one thing that I believe a lot of men would struggle with when it comes to waitresses and that is scheduling. Waitresses often work very late into the night and during weekends, and that can make it difficult to see each other with enough regularity depending upon what the guy does. I'm a big believer in repetition building a relationship.
Some of it also depends on how the man relates to you, and the way you would perceive an intelligent man. There are cases where smarter men tend to turn off women with their intelligence. Dave Brightwell touched on this phenomenon. It is often beneficial for an intelligent men to dumb it down a little bit to make it easier to relate to women to make himself more desirable.
I understand what you mean, but I don't think many men with Bachelor's and Master's degrees would look twice at a waitress.
Why do you see things that way about men with Bachelor's/Master's not looking twice at waitresses?
Ever talked with a waitress from Hooters, Twin Peaks or any other "breastaurant" about this? Plenty of guys with Bachelor's/Master's try to pick up those women.
I have a Bachelor's degree and I would love to date any of the waitresses at my local Hooters. Most guys don't give a hoot if a woman has a MBA from a top 5 school or an AA from a community college.
So you are saying boobs and *kitten* are more prized then brains?
In a word (feel free to back me up guys).. YES.
Back up has arrived... Yes, and not that brains aren't a turn on. But I think woman hold their degrees to a higher level than any guy I know. In fact a lot are down right cocky about them, and that is a plain and simple turn off!! I'm sure their are men in here with advanced degrees, but I couldn't tell you who they are because they aren't squawking about them like they deserve a Nobel prize for having it. It's one part of life, and if it comes down to a giant pair of fun bags or someone that is ridding their high horse about one accomplishment in life... I'm going boobs every time.0 -
Simply put, women care more about a man's career than a man cares about a woman's career or accomplishments. To men, good looks, a carefree attitude that makes interactions easy and fun, reliability and trustworthiness are what matters.0
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Simply put, women care more about a man's career than a man cares about a woman's career or accomplishments. To men, good looks, a carefree attitude that makes interactions easy and fun, reliability and trustworthiness are what matters.
Men don`t grasp that the feeling of security is as strong and dominant in most (?) ladies as the desire for physical intimacy is for us.
I have said before that neither should be considered more sacred or deserving to be met before the other but do know that opinion will not be accepted as valid for the most part.0 -
Wow. Interesting thread all of a sudden... ;-)
I suppose I could seriously date a waitress, but she needs to be intelligent. She doesn't need an MA from MIT (or any degree, for that matter), but she needs to be intelligent, interesting, etc. Statistically speaking, I'm sure there are some very intelligent waitresses, but quite frankly, the odds are not in her favor.
The odds are not in her favor that she's intelligent, interesting, etc, or the odds are not in her favor that someone would be interested in a trying to get past the stereotype and date a waitress?
And I'm talking a waitress at a nice place, not Denny's or Hooters.
Her attitude matters. Is she pleasant to be around? Are the interactions easy and fun? Is she reliable? Does she keep her word? All relevant considerations.0
