What Does a Good First Date Look Like?
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I like the original post DM
Although I don't think I've had more than one date that was like that..perhaps that's why so many first and no seconds.
ON the hot topic of kissing. I think the best dates do end in a kiss..or some kissing
I want to know that the man is interested/attracted enough to make that move. I do give signals..I'm not completely a dimwit.
And if he doesn't kiss me on the first date..but makes an effort to communicate with me and ask for a 2nd date I'll forgive him and see him again. But if he didn't attempt to kiss me if I gave signals..and he doesn't initiate conversation post date..lost cause (if he calls me 2 weeks later wtf?). (just speaking about this week 2 men restarted communication from 1st dates last month).
Some way to be close is important, and some way to just be silly and have a good time. A first date should be light hearted..not serious and fancy. Physical activity would be a good option since it gets the system pumping, blood flowing and fills in awkward silences sometimes.0 -
Interesting discussion, all. I wonder if there are any cultural differences that come into play here. I know that I am more likely to stand too close than too far away from someone (compared to the average Canadian) and am quite comfortable with strangers touching me (yes I know that sounds weird!). My family is a very kissy bunch.. in fact we do kiss on the lips still at times (a peck obviously). I have some friends we kiss on the cheek and/or I have also kissed on the lips. So for me.. I don't know... maybe a kiss doesn't mean as much as to others?
Definitely so, I believe. That's funny, because my family is not kissy/huggy. I have hardly hugged my family members much past the elementary school age, and forget about kissing. I've never kissed a family member on the lips except for when I was a kid.
I'm not a hugger or a kisser by any means, and so if a guy went in for that on the first date, it's a turnoff. I have to wait until I'm comfortable before I like to hug people, it's just how I grew up.
. Some people just don't like to be intimate with people they just met which can include kissing. I don't even like to be touched by someone that I barely know much less kissed. I have gotten over this more lately especially when I am drinking but when I was younger (early 20s) I just had too many guys grope within the same night as meeting that I have put walls up.
Exactly. Like I said above, I am the exact same way. That doesn't mean that I won't hug anyone, I just have to know you first.0 -
Everyone should kiss at their own pace. No right or wrongs here. Just that the two people concerned are on the same page. If you are, you'll work it out :flowerforyou:
I have had a date kiss me and then I never heard from him again. So no real indicator of interest. Now that's just confusing! I dont kiss a guy unless I'm interested........
so now you know DM, if you get the cheek, it may just mean you're moving too fast!
Everyone is different :flowerforyou:0 -
I just passed date #3 last night and still no kiss... but I'm just now starting to really like this guy. :bigsmile:There are a number of different ways to gauge attraction levels prior to going in for the kiss. I look for these signals. If I don't get the signals, I don't go in for the kiss because it is very hard to recover from a failed kiss attempt.
I have noticed as well that if there is a no kiss first date, even if I offer a 2nd, the 2nd date is more often than not turned down.
A good kiss is a strong indicator that she wants more.
Keep me posted on this one. I don't think I've ever waiting until date #4 for the first kiss. It sounds like he's really, really into you if he's willing to wait this long.0 -
I don't think I've ever waiting until date #4 for the first kiss. It sounds like he's really, really into you if he's willing to wait this long.
Please explain this... I don't understand how waiting for a kiss is an indicator of being really into a woman.
(I personally think waiting is a good sign, but everything I've heard is that if someone waits to kiss or even have sex they aren't really into you).0 -
I'm not a fan of this entitled thinking...the guy spent a few bucks so at minimum the woman needs to put out with a kiss (if not more)? Am I reading that correctly?
Yes, you read that correctly. It's not so much the exchange of dinner for a kiss, it's to send the signal that she's interested.
If I had a great time and she gives the cheek at the end of the night, it tells me she's not interested and I'll move on to someone else very, very shortly thereafter.
You would blow off a woman just because she gave you a kiss on the cheek and not on the lips? That's a low blow in my opinion. Maybe she wasn't comfortable to kiss on the lips just yet? I think a kiss on the cheek is sweet and respectful. If I wasn't interested, I don't think I'd give a kiss at all.0 -
I don't think I've ever waiting until date #4 for the first kiss. It sounds like he's really, really into you if he's willing to wait this long.
Please explain this... I don't understand how waiting for a kiss is an indicator of being really into a woman.
I think what Mike means is that because he is willing to wait to kiss, he really likes her. If he wasn't so into her, he would be gone by now. But that is just what I infer from it!0 -
I just want to say, be careful about applying rules and expectations on first dates. It is hard enough to find somebody, and getting immediately turned off because they didn't do a, b, or c is just going to make the search even more daunting.
This.
It's a nice list, great to generate discussion here. But I would caution against any hard and fast rules. Every person is different, every situation is different. Lasting relationships are rarely built from the results of a first date check list.
--P
Yes,it is not a cookie cutter factory and anyone trying to make it such is only doing themselves a disservice.0 -
I just passed date #3 last night and still no kiss... but I'm just now starting to really like this guy. :bigsmile:
Why no kiss after 3 dates? I figure that is at least 7-8 hours together. Don't you feel the physical attraction to want to kiss him?
A lot of guys would walk with no kiss after 3 dates. So I agree with Mike that he is very into you.0 -
Well, last night was just a spontaneous meet up to get frozen yogurt, and before that was lunch and a walk around an arboretum on a very hot day, so it's not like there was a good opportunity really.That's what happens when I'm in charge of things. :bigsmile:I just passed date #3 last night and still no kiss... but I'm just now starting to really like this guy. :bigsmile:
Why no kiss after 3 dates? I figure that is at least 7-8 hours together. Don't you feel the physical attraction to want to kiss him?
A lot of guys would walk with no kiss after 3 dates. So I agree with Mike that he is very into you.
This is definitely a case where there were no instant fireworks for me, but we have great conversations and a lot in common, so I wanted to see how things would go. We've spoken on the phone several times as well, and now I'm very attracted because of his personality. It has taken me about two weeks to get there though, so I haven't been putting out signals. I guess I'm lucky that he is interested and/or patient enough to be still making plans with me. Obviously, neither one of us places that much importance in a kiss on the first date (or 2 or 3).0 -
What does a good first date look like to you? Here's what it looks like to me. I thought about some of the common themes of good, very good and excellent first dates I've had over the years.
1. Pre-selection: This matters most. It is a hard art to master. Who you pick to actually be spending an extended amount of time with you is vital. I think it is ideal to know that the second you start that date, you're going to have enough to talk about and that you're going to have easy interactions. Good pre-selection makes the later items on this list much easier.
2. Showing up on time. This is something that is easy, but many people fail in this task. I feel that punctuality reduces uncertainty and anxiety.
3. Presentation: Appearance counts. For me, most women pass this. Doesn't always happen. One woman I went out with once had really greasy hair and looked tired. I think that men have a higher threshold in their appearance. We've gotta wear great shoes (particularly for an indoorsy, non athletic date), smell nice, etc.
4. Ambiance: Very dependent upon the activity chosen, but there should be some perceived pleasantry in the environment. A stimuli of the sense. Lighting can be that stimuli. Nature is another good one.
5. Spatial relations: This is what I am fanatical about. I like close proximity. Close proximity brings closeness in interactions. Close proximity allows for physical contact. Physical contact sets up a kiss. A kiss won't happen unless there's some preceding physical contact. What is best is when a woman finds a way to touch me. A nice touch on the arm. These touches should precede a hand hold, which precedes a kiss. Infants learn to walk before they learn to run. That's what this is all about. So whatever is done, close proximity is important.
6. The Conversation: Just needs to have ease of interaction. Laughter is always good.
7. The Kiss: This is the moment of truth. Were items 1-6 done correctly? If items 1-6 were done correctly, there should be a kiss that says that there's mutual attraction and both sides want more.
Damn... I really wish I lived in Texas right now.
It's so refreshing to see a guy that knows what he wants.
To answer your question, as many of you know, I've only been on 2 dates with the same guy. From those dates I learned that #1 and #5 are important. I think a lot of it has to do with the guys confidence (read: NOT arrogance). I want him to wear the pants. If he asks me to go out with him, he should know beforehand what he wants to do. The guy I went out with did this wonderfully on the first date and then the second date was me trying to get him to make up his mind the whole time... so annoying.
#5 was also something this guy lacked. I think some shy guys (or unexperienced guys) fear touching a lady appropriately because they think it will seem like some big sexual advance. The worst thing that could happen if you try to hold a lady's hand is she pulls away, she isn't going to blow her rape whistle and mace you... but DO pay attention to her body language, that way your odds of getting shot down are lower. Eye contact is as important as physical contact, if not more, which goes back to confidence. Not making eye contact for long periods of time just reads socially inept and insecure.
Really, the best advice I can give to guys is to be yourself, put some thought and effort in your date, be confident, and don't be a p***y. If a girl says yes when you ask her out, she obviously likes you, so you don't need to act so damn insecure. You acting insecure and weird just makes her feel uncomfortable.
End rant.0 -
2. Showing up on time. This is something that is easy, but many people fail in this task. I feel that punctuality reduces uncertainty and anxiety.Sometimes DM you hit it on the buzzer...
Being on time is a huge deal for me. I hate being late and I hate when your running late. Woe betide you if you dont call me and tell me your running late and I'm left sitting there for more than 10 mins.....
This is important to me. I understand life happens so contact your date if you will be late. I would do the same out of courtesy and respect.3. Presentation: Appearance counts. For me, most women pass this. Doesn't always happen. One woman I went out with once had really greasy hair and looked tired. I think that men have a higher threshold in their appearance. We've gotta wear great shoes (particularly for an indoorsy, non athletic date), smell nice, etc.I have to wear nice shoes? Really?
If there's obvious patches of mud on my DC's, I might scrub them off but there is no leather and tassels coming out from this guy.
Girls, are you looking at my shoes? My face is up here!
Agreed! :laugh: Now that I think about it, I have no nice shoes. :frown:5. Spatial relations: This is what I am fanatical about. I like close proximity. Close proximity brings closeness in interactions. Close proximity allows for physical contact. Physical contact sets up a kiss. A kiss won't happen unless there's some preceding physical contact. What is best is when a woman finds a way to touch me. A nice touch on the arm. These touches should precede a hand hold, which precedes a kiss. Infants learn to walk before they learn to run. That's what this is all about. So whatever is done, close proximity is important.
Physical touch is defintely one that cannot be misinterpreted6. The Conversation: Just needs to have ease of interaction. Laughter is always good.
Yep.7. The Kiss: This is the moment of truth. Were items 1-6 done correctly? If items 1-6 were done correctly, there should be a kiss that says that there's mutual attraction and both sides want more.[I have to say I don't see the imporance of #7 on a first date, and if I were you I wouldn't give up on going on a 2nd date because you don't get a kiss. Like it has been said many times in here, us fellas can't read minds and pick up on every hint. Not saying that you should ask for a kiss, but if you don't get one it doesn't mean the guy isn't interested.
Yes! Just because he didn't kiss on the 1st date doesn't mean he isn't interested. Unless there is a sign, like in the movie Hitch with Allegra and Albert during the fumbling of the keys scene. :laugh:0 -
I have to wear nice shoes? Really?
If there's obvious patches of mud on my DC's, I might scrub them off but there is no leather and tassels coming out from this guy.
Girls, are you looking at my shoes? My face is up here!
:laugh: I'm not looking at your shoes. It's the last thing on my mind. But having ironed, clean clothes and a nice smell is important :bigsmile:0 -
:laugh: I'm not looking at your shoes. It's the last thing on my mind. But having ironed, clean clothes and a nice smell is important :bigsmile:
It has been my experience that women are into shoes. Their own and ours, but more so their own. I think clean clothes and a nice smell are expectations from both sides.0 -
:laugh: I'm not looking at your shoes. It's the last thing on my mind. But having ironed, clean clothes and a nice smell is important :bigsmile:
It has been my experience that women are into shoes. Their own and ours, but more so their own. I think clean clothes and a nice smell are expectations from both sides.
Oh! I am definitely into my own shoes!! :bigsmile: But I've never met a man to be fussed about his own shoes, so I've learnt to not hate him for it.....:laugh:0 -
:laugh: I'm not looking at your shoes. It's the last thing on my mind. But having ironed, clean clothes and a nice smell is important :bigsmile:
It has been my experience that women are into shoes. Their own and ours, but more so their own. I think clean clothes and a nice smell are expectations from both sides.
Oh! I am definitely into my own shoes!! :bigsmile: But I've never met a man to be fussed about his own shoes, so I've learnt to not hate him for it.....:laugh:
I never look at a guys shoes unless they stand out from his over all outfit.0 -
All the tattooed girls with piercing and colored hair I've been hitting on have laughed at my ironed shirt, clean clothes and black shoes.0
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:laugh: I'm not looking at your shoes. It's the last thing on my mind. But having ironed, clean clothes and a nice smell is important :bigsmile:
It has been my experience that women are into shoes. Their own and ours, but more so their own. I think clean clothes and a nice smell are expectations from both sides.
Oh! I am definitely into my own shoes!! :bigsmile: But I've never met a man to be fussed about his own shoes, so I've learnt to not hate him for it.....:laugh:
I never look at a guys shoes unless they stand out from his over all outfit.
I agree, I don't look at his shoes unless they stand out.0 -
All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.0
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All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.
I've also heard this a billion times0 -
I have heard this too. I'm not one of those women. All women are not the same. We don't have a hive mind and think identically. Many women also pay attention to your car. All I care about is that it's clean if I have to sit in it and I don't have to brush off crumbs or something worse before sitting down (although that would be on a later date, not the first one if I've never met the guy before).All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.0 -
All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.
I've also heard this a billion times
How many times have you heard a woman say "I'm not dating him again cos I didnt like his shoes!!!"
And IF a woman did use this pathetic, contrived, irrational excuse, would you even care??0 -
I think the gold-digging type of women that no men seem to want to attract would do this.All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.
I've also heard this a billion times
How many times have you heard a woman say "I'm not dating him again cos I didnt like his shoes!!!"
And IF a woman did use this pathetic, contrived, irrational excuse, would you even care??0 -
I think the gold-digging type of women that no men seem to want to attract would do this.All the guy advice websites and mags say women pay attention to your shoes, so wear shoes that she'll like.
I've also heard this a billion times
How many times have you heard a woman say "I'm not dating him again cos I didnt like his shoes!!!"
And IF a woman did use this pathetic, contrived, irrational excuse, would you even care??
Some men use money to flirt. Many 40 something men chasing 20 something women show off their more advanced careers and higher incomes relative to 20 something men to attract the women they desire.0 -
What does a good first date look like to you? Here's what it looks like to me. I thought about some of the common themes of good, very good and excellent first dates I've had over the years.
1. Pre-selection: This matters most. It is a hard art to master. Who you pick to actually be spending an extended amount of time with you is vital. I think it is ideal to know that the second you start that date, you're going to have enough to talk about and that you're going to have easy interactions. Good pre-selection makes the later items on this list much easier.
2. Showing up on time. This is something that is easy, but many people fail in this task. I feel that punctuality reduces uncertainty and anxiety.
3. Presentation: Appearance counts. For me, most women pass this. Doesn't always happen. One woman I went out with once had really greasy hair and looked tired. I think that men have a higher threshold in their appearance. We've gotta wear great shoes (particularly for an indoorsy, non athletic date), smell nice, etc.
4. Ambiance: Very dependent upon the activity chosen, but there should be some perceived pleasantry in the environment. A stimuli of the sense. Lighting can be that stimuli. Nature is another good one.
5. Spatial relations: This is what I am fanatical about. I like close proximity. Close proximity brings closeness in interactions. Close proximity allows for physical contact. Physical contact sets up a kiss. A kiss won't happen unless there's some preceding physical contact. What is best is when a woman finds a way to touch me. A nice touch on the arm. These touches should precede a hand hold, which precedes a kiss. Infants learn to walk before they learn to run. That's what this is all about. So whatever is done, close proximity is important.
6. The Conversation: Just needs to have ease of interaction. Laughter is always good.
7. The Kiss: This is the moment of truth. Were items 1-6 done correctly? If items 1-6 were done correctly, there should be a kiss that says that there's mutual attraction and both sides want more.
For once, I agree with everything you just said. :noway:0 -
Some men use money to flirt. Many 40 something men chasing 20 something women show off their more advanced careers and higher incomes relative to 20 something men to attract the women they desire.
Yeah, I guess some do.
On the other hand, what's wrong with wearing good quality shoes? Why would you compliment a nice suit with a pair of ordinary, unimaginative shoes, with little style or character? It's like enjoying a fine Cabernet Sauvignon with a Big Mac and fries.
There is also something to be said about respecting the craftsmanship that goes into a good pair of shoes. Just like a nice watch. Or a well made tie.
Also, if you know what you're doing, you don't have to pay a fortune for good quality shoes. But it takes a bit of effort. Something that some people believe is worthwhile.
I'm not wearing nice shoes primarily for her, anyway, I'm wearing them for me. I never assume (or care) that a woman knows anything about men's shoes. Or watches. Or ties. Certainly not how much they cost.
But yes, I do like to look nice when I go out, and shoes are an important part of the wardrobe. Dressing nicely is also a sign of respect for the woman. You are signaling that you have style. Not necessarily that you have money.
As an aside, I was at dinner tonight with a very senior exec who was wearing an incredibly tacky Rolex watch. It had a gold/silver two-toned band, which I think looks ridiculous on any watch. Even a Rolex itself is a very poor choice in high end watches. For the same amount of money you can wear a nice Jaeger-LeCoultre, or a higher end IWC. The difference is that almost nobody will know that those are better crafted, better engineered watches, except the person wearing it. So you're not wearing an IWC Ingenieur to impress a woman, you're doing it because it's an incredible piece of engineering, probably only 6000 of that model in existence worldwide, with a revolutionary movement, that looks great with both a suit and a casual shirt and jeans. A watch that will last a lifetime, and can be passed on to your son. But 99.9999% of the people who see it will not even know or appreciate it. Which makes it all the more sweet.
--P0 -
A lot of thought went into that list indeed. Personally, I think numbers 1 & 6 are most important because the rest will figure itself out if you're on the date with someone you are comfortable with.
I'm not a fan of this entitled thinking...the guy spent a few bucks so at minimum the woman needs to put out with a kiss (if not more)? Am I reading that correctly?If you are interested in the guy, a small kiss on the lips after he bought your drinks and dinner won't kill you.
I see where you are coming from and why you read it that way
I am not opposed to kissing on the first date but the guy I am seeing didn't kiss me until our third date and that was ok too because the kisses remain amazing now and I could feel the chemistry kissing aside.0 -
I just passed date #3 last night and still no kiss... but I'm just now starting to really like this guy. :bigsmile:There are a number of different ways to gauge attraction levels prior to going in for the kiss. I look for these signals. If I don't get the signals, I don't go in for the kiss because it is very hard to recover from a failed kiss attempt.
I have noticed as well that if there is a no kiss first date, even if I offer a 2nd, the 2nd date is more often than not turned down.
A good kiss is a strong indicator that she wants more.
Keep me posted on this one. I don't think I've ever waiting until date #4 for the first kiss. It sounds like he's really, really into you if he's willing to wait this long.
Apparently, date #4 is the right one for kisses. I got greeted with one to start our date - which actually wasn't very date-like since it was hanging out at a friend of mine's house for potluck and some movies and going in separate cars. LOL! We had a nice little walk around before calling it a night. I think he's pretty into me. :bigsmile: 0 -
Apparently, date #4 is the right one for kisses. I got greeted with one to start our date - which actually wasn't very date-like since it was hanging out at a friend of mine's house for potluck and some movies and going in separate cars. LOL! We had a nice little walk around before calling it a night. I think he's pretty into me. :bigsmile:
Good stuff Mellie. I like the idea of starting a date with a kiss.
I like how it sets a tone.
Yes, I don't quite understand the whole pot luck at a friend's house, movies and separate car thing. That type of social event seems more like an established couple thing, not a 4th date, getting to you know phase kind of thing. Don't you two have to determine you are an actual couple before the friends are involved? The sequencing doesn't add up from an outsider's perspective but perhaps you know something I don't.
Nonetheless, glad things are making you smile. :bigsmile:0 -
Shoes... I look at these. If you don't care enough to wear your nicer shoes (whether they're sneakers, or dressier), then you didn't put much thought or effort in my opinion. I understand I'm a woman and it's different for me, but I take the time to do my hair, make up, shave my legs, pick the outfit, etc for YOU. If you don't care that much about impressing me by your appearance because afterall, this will be the 1st impression I get (and I don't care if they're $20 nice shoes or $200), than you're mostly not the guy for me in the long run.
I want someone who cares about their appearance.
And greeting with a kiss would be awesome if it were a guy I was crushing on and he finally asked me out. I saw this on a movie once. But if it's an online date, hellz no... Although I do greet all my dates with a hug.0
