Check out my snatch? Olympic lifting form check

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Replies

  • sam308lbs
    sam308lbs Posts: 1,939 Member
    this is very informative.Bump to follow
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
    Ok, I already posted some of this on your profile, but I think the key here is the start position. I think get that right, and the rest will be fine. I don't think it is extension at all, I mean take a look at this, and especially considering the sub-optimal start position, its really not too shabby.

    20upy04.jpg

    If you look at your start position, your weight is a little forward on your feet, your shoulders are behind the bar, your knees are quite flexed and your hips although still flexed, are way more extended than they should be. From this position, unless you have odd anatomy or abnormally tight muslces, your glutes and hamstrings won't be feeling at all stretched or under tension.

    So, here's the before, with lines added to emphasise my point:
    2qvuigw.jpg

    To improve this position, you want you weight slightly further back on your feet, but you might not need to do this conciously, it will most likely happen with the other changes. You want your shoulders over, or slightly in front of the bar, to do this, your knees will have to be extended a lot more, and your hips flexed more. By getting into this position, you should feel tension\a slight stretch in your hamstrings, whilst not massively useful from the hang, this is good, because in the full lift from the floor, you will move through this position rather than be static, and the stretch will then work like an elastic band recoiling, adding more force to the lift.

    So here is roughly what it should look like:
    358xwt3.jpg

    To visualise it better, check out Sibel Simsek (She's 63kg, so about 140lb which is pretty similar) here, now this is a snatch, so the position is slightly different as the wider grip makes the arms effectively shorter, but the principle is the same, just your back will be slightly less horizontal in each position, due to the closer grip of the clean.

    o60978.jpg

    Two points to really notice, are how close the bar stays to her legs the whole time, and how the thighs, back and arms from a triangle that gets smaller and smaller until the bar is at the hips. If the triangle turns into any other shape, something is wrong, and if the triangle turns into a 4 sided shape, with an imaginary line between the bar and the hips, you will end up with a bruise like I did yesterday!

    Hopefully this helps, but as always feel free to ask anything to clarify.
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
    BTW, my anatomical drawing is not what I am known for, so don't get too hung up on the angles and proportions of my blues stick-Award30, the arm length and angle is ridiculous and exaggerated, but the point still stands, Sibel shows the concept much better!
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
    Thanks again Dan! That helps a lot. So I'm starting it more like a squat and need to start it more like a dead.. Basically? I'll try fixing the start position this week.
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
    Well more like a Romanian deadlift, most people deadlift conventionally from the floor, which instantly kills the lift, hence the reason I think learning from the high hang down is best for beginners.
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
    Hmm. So when you pull from the floor, how does that work? Or should I still not pull from the floor?
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
    One month later:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/l3sm7yt7mqlr6qg/2013-01-31 20.27.52.mov at 75 lb. The people watching said I was still too light and the bar was bouncing a bunch, so I went up to 95 lb

    I would seriously consider investing in some o-lifting shoes.

    See how your ankle comes off the ground at 0.11.

    Plus they are just awesome to squat in.
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
    Hmm. So when you pull from the floor, how does that work? Or should I still not pull from the floor?

    Get the low hang nailed first.

    I know the full lift is much cooler, but if the second part of the lift isn't natural, adding in another part that feels unnatural and trying to smoothly transition it into a second move that feels unnatural is not a recipe for success!
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
    I would seriously consider investing in some o-lifting shoes.

    See how your ankle comes off the ground at 0.11.

    Plus they are just awesome to squat in.

    Whilst I would always recommend using weightlifting shoes (and I even way back suggested AWard30 trade a certain Christmas present for some), the heel lift at 0:11 is caused by movement pattern, so would most likely occur whatever footwear is worn.
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member

    rhizwm.jpg

    Is heel lift bad? I thought it was good so long as you weren't jumping.

    And sorry, I didn't check on my thread because I'm a bad person.

    I have been considering getting new shoes, but I'm currently crossfitting for most of my workouts, so I was thinking about something that has enough support for box jumps but not much heel to toe drop because that makes squats bad.

    Think oly shoes would work for that or would it be a crime against awesome shoes to wear them for normal crossfit use?
  • TheMattyExperiment
    TheMattyExperiment Posts: 178 Member
    Nice Snatch ;)
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
    Is heel lift bad? I thought it was good so long as you weren't jumping.

    And sorry, I didn't check on my thread because I'm a bad person.

    I have been considering getting new shoes, but I'm currently crossfitting for most of my workouts, so I was thinking about something that has enough support for box jumps but not much heel to toe drop because that makes squats bad.

    Think oly shoes would work for that or would it be a crime against awesome shoes to wear them for normal crossfit use?

    We're talking about heels lifting when squatting (in this case to catch the bar), not at the end of the second pull in the clean\snatch.

    Look at something like the Adidas powerlift shoes, they're trainers, but have a heel like a weightlifting shoe, so kind of a crossover - I think they were actually designed with crossfit in mind. Unless you plan to compete at weightlifting in your future, in which case get a proper pair of weightlifting shoes.

    Why do you think a heel toe drop is bad for squats? Where did you get this idea from?

    I already knew you were a bad person, especially as you laughed at my dangerous neck injury!
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
    Is heel lift bad? I thought it was good so long as you weren't jumping.

    And sorry, I didn't check on my thread because I'm a bad person.

    I have been considering getting new shoes, but I'm currently crossfitting for most of my workouts, so I was thinking about something that has enough support for box jumps but not much heel to toe drop because that makes squats bad.

    Think oly shoes would work for that or would it be a crime against awesome shoes to wear them for normal crossfit use?

    We're talking about heels lifting when squatting (in this case to catch the bar), not at the end of the second pull in the clean\snatch.

    Look at something like the Adidas powerlift shoes, they're trainers, but have a heel like a weightlifting shoe, so kind of a crossover - I think they were actually designed with crossfit in mind. Unless you plan to compete at weightlifting in your future, in which case get a proper pair of weightlifting shoes.

    Why do you think a heel toe drop is bad for squats? Where did you get this idea from?

    I already knew you were a bad person, especially as you laughed at my dangerous neck injury!

    In my defense, I asked if you were okay before I laughed. Well, kinda after. But I asked!

    Hmm. I had always thought it was the heel on the running shoes that made them suboptimal... but in reading, is it actually the extra padding/cushioning/shock absorption absorbing power from the floor when you actually want that power?

    I'll read more into this shoe thing. But can I really blame my shoes, or is this a problem of me trying to catch too far forward? lol
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
    Re the shoes It's a mobility issue.

    Most people won't have the ankle flexibility to get into a deep, upright torso front squat or high bar back squat position. The raised heel on a lifting shoe gives you more room to manoeuvre.

    But yes you don't want to squat in squishy shoes either, the heel on an o-lifting show is solid.

    As for cross fitting in them I don't know, I don't partake in such endeavours.
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
    Thanks for the explanation, sir. When I do just front squats, I keep my heels down just fine, so it isn't strictly a mobility problem. More likely me still having trouble properly dropping under the bar properly?

    Was the heel raise in all of the reps or just the funky botched one at the end of the first vid? I watched and didn't see it noticeably, although it did look like my weight wasn't firmly on the heel.
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
    I don't think it's mobility either, like I said above, it's just a movement pattern issue. Even without knowing you could front squat fine, you can see a lot of ankle dorsiflexion in your video.

    I think it's partly to do with where you pull the bar to, partly to do with not being used to the catch, and possibly partly to do with the weight not being heavy enough to fully pull vack without falling over. However all of this might go away with the change of start position, so I wanted to wait and see. Especially because having 100 thoughts in your head is a guaranteed recipe for a slow and horrible clean.
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
    Don't worry, I'm incapable of holding more than 1 thought in my head at a time. And usually that's "don't hit yourself in the face with the bar"

    I'll get in more practice and maybe a vid on Thursday, if I've made progress.

    Thanks again ^^
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
    Okay, so, I think I've gone backwards? I don't know. I've been practicing with 85#

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnepnbd300h2whk/2013-03-03 15.07.19.mov?m
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pbgjfe6ia8ue8zk/2013-03-03 15.09.03.mov?m

    From Sunday!
  • HelloDan
    HelloDan Posts: 712 Member
    Ok, I looked, and I'm gonna give you 2 drills to work on, but its late, I just got home from being in the gym for 3 hours, so I will do it later, hopefully with video, if I get a chance.
  • Awkward30
    Awkward30 Posts: 1,927 Member
    Thanks, Dan. You're the best!

    Actually, like 65th best on my list. But that's up remarkably from where you were.