April Check in & Chat - Spring into the Squat Rack

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  • Fiesty1006
    Fiesty1006 Posts: 95 Member
    I'm starting to burn out on counting calories and SLs.

    I've been counting calories since February 11th. For the first few days, I was at 1200 calories... because that's what MFP said to do. (Naive, I know - but it was only for a few days). During this time, I thought that was too low... scoured the MFP forums.. and bumped it to 1550ish... I was there for a few weeks... During that time I had my RMR tested.. The person administering the test suggested 1530ish too... (My RMR is 1950). I thought "Eating below my RMR?!?". So, I scoured the forums again. Bumped to 1950 on March 13... And, after more scouring, decided to pursue EM2WL... and ended up at 2032.. and have been eating at that level since March 21st. Based on my BMF calories burned, 2032 varies between a 20 and 24% deficit on a daily basis... depending on whether or not I exercise.

    I've lost 10lbs since Feb 11th. Certainly nothing to write home about. I never did a "reset". Maybe I need to. That's about 1lb/week... and includes a few over-indulgences... maybe 3 times. Heck, the 10lbs may just be water weight.... and not actual fat.

    My measurements are exactly the same. Certain clothes feel slightly different... But I'm not dropping sizes or inches or anything like that. My BF% appears to have changed on my scale at home.... But I don't honestly remember what it was before that. So, maybe I just thought it higher than it was. I want to go back and get it checked again, but, I wanted to lose more first.

    With SLs, I was excited to do it initially... Now it's become another "Ugggh... Not again" routine... I've had to drag myself to the gym for the past few sessions. I'm sure failing on OHP and Pendlay Rows isn't helping... But, I know it's to be expected.

    Long story, short... I'm losing motivation.. and quickly. Maybe I need a diet break... and a break from SLs... Maybe it's just the extreme stress going on nowadays.. I don't know... I've been fed up with work lately too.

    Anyone else get burned out and just want to quit?

    And... as if the wall of text wasn't enough, my progress...
    Squat: 110lbs
    OHP: 60lbs
    Deadlift: 110lbs
    Bench Press: 80lbs
    Pendlay Rows: 85lbs ... Haven't done these in a week due to adding PowerCleans during my last session
    Power Clean: 45lbs ... Just started these on Friday
  • DaniH826
    DaniH826 Posts: 1,335 Member
    Anyone else get burned out and just want to quit?

    Quit counting calories?

    Only all the time.

    I'm taking Sundays off currently and took a 2-week maintenance break. I can only keep track of so much for so long.

    Lyle McDonald is of the opinion that people who give themselves regular diet breaks (for like 2 weeks every couple months) tend to stick with things longer and be more successful.

    So spend 2 weeks at maintenance and deload weights. Who cares? Give yourself regular breaks before you burn out and quit altogether.
  • BikerGirlElaine
    BikerGirlElaine Posts: 1,631 Member
    Anyone else get burned out and just want to quit?

    And... as if the wall of text wasn't enough, my progress...
    Squat: 110lbs
    OHP: 60lbs
    Deadlift: 110lbs
    Bench Press: 80lbs
    Pendlay Rows: 85lbs ... Haven't done these in a week due to adding PowerCleans during my last session
    Power Clean: 45lbs ... Just started these on Friday

    Well, not this time around, yet... But check with me next April and we'll see.

    I took a diet break at the end of March for a week. I had started on January 1. The diet break was delicious, and I started back to eating at a deficit and started back to losing, so I've become a big fan of the diet break.

    I always take training breaks when needed. I think you just kind of learn when they're needed... And when I am dragging-@ss to go to the gym, that's when I need a break. Sometimes a big break, like doing not-a-thing for a week, and sometimes like what I just did -- a couple of extra rest days and some deloaded sessions.

    Sometimes I've taken longer breaks, like six months or something. I've always ended up fatter and older and weaker after I do that. So I have a goal to not do that any more. The only way out is through -- I need to just go to the gym on schedule without fail, and eat at a deficit for about another 12 months, and then learn to maintain. I just have to do it. Giving up isn't on my radar screen anymore.

    I don't know if this sounds motivational to you or not. But if you are fed up and tired, take a break. Just set a date of when you are going to come back, and make a plan so that when you do come back it isn't chewing you up and spitting you out like it is now. You've made a great deal of progress with your strength. You don't want to lose that. And you won't lose it, unless you totally stop and don't come back.

    And you didn't ask about this, but setting your calorie target -- I use my actual results over the last eight weeks to set my goal. It's working really well for me so far. You have enough data that you can do the same thing.

    Lastly, have you taken pictures? Maybe they would show your progrss better.

    Hugs! :flowerforyou:
  • tameko2
    tameko2 Posts: 31,634 Member
    I'm starting to burn out on counting calories and SLs.

    I've lost 10lbs since Feb 11th. Certainly nothing to write home about. I never did a "reset". Maybe I need to. That's about 1lb/week... and includes a few over-indulgences... maybe 3 times. Heck, the 10lbs may just be water weight.... and not actual fat.

    1) 10lbs in 2 months IS something to write home about. We've all gotten the idea from the horrible diet industry and shows like the biggest loser that weight loss happens FAST if you're doing it "right" -- if you've bought the right program, if you cut out the right foods from your diet, etc.

    Sustainable healthy weight loss is NOT fast for 99% of individuals. The stuff you see in infomercials and on TV are anomalies at best (that 1 in a million person), lies at worst (Its very common for people who are already in shape to fake 'before' pictures - its VERY easy with the right lighting, clothes, posture, etc), and in the middle you have stuff like the biggest loser where people are monitored 24/7 and starved and dehydrated for months. People in labor camps are skinny too but that doesn't mean we would all be healthier if we moved to china and made clothes for walmart

    2) Try taking a break from the diet alone, first. I don't know if you've read any of the recent literature on self-control but what they are finding is that we (surprise!) have limited amounts of it. When we spread it to thin, we start to lose our ability to control ANYTHING. So if 2 areas of control (less food, more gym) is too much for you, try dropping it down to just 1 area of control.

    In my opinion, exercise ALWAYS comes first. I know its contrary to the old "everyone knows...' statements from the diet and fitness industry but recent studies across populations show pretty clearly that being ACTIVE and fat is still healthier than being inactive and THIN across ALL markers of health (blood pressure, cholesterol, metabolic health).

    So, here's what I'd recommend.

    Stick to SL. if you haven't gotten fractionals for your OHP and Bench yet, do that now. Its a huge mental relief. IF you have, but you haven't dropped to 3x5, do that. If you've done both, we should double check form a little but then we can talk about a pyramid or reverse pyramid.

    Change your calorie goal to maintenance, AND if you get hungry during the day, eat a reasonable snack, regardless of if that will put you over calories. (But do log it, for data's sake). Basically, don't let your diet go off the rails, but don't force yourself to be hungry. If you're hungry, eat something. Try to have something like fruit and a yogurt before you have a chocolate bar, but if you want a chocolate bar then have the darn thing (same calories as a yogurt and a banana, anyway)
  • kirabob
    kirabob Posts: 481 Member
    Rest day for me, but wanted to say ^^ Tameko, that was a great response full of level-headed and useful advice. You rock.
  • Fiesty1006
    Fiesty1006 Posts: 95 Member
    Maybe a week long diet break is all I need... or even Sunday's like Dani mentioned. FWIW, I took a "diet break" tonight... I ate what remainded for the day to get me to maintenace.. It was refreshing. So, I'm thinking I'll play how long by ear.. Maybe a day.. Maybe a week.. but with a definite "Do not pass go" spot at 2 weeks. I don't want to come to despise SL/SS/lifting heavy. I really feel like lifting heavy is the way to go.


    And you didn't ask about this, but setting your calorie target -- I use my actual results over the last eight weeks to set my goal.

    I'm all for advice on calorie targets too... :-) How do you use the last eight weeks to set your goal though? I mean, I have the data.. and the weight loss that corresponds to each week... But I bounced around so much while setting my goal... When I saw the largest loss was in the first week or two... and I was eating below BMR and RMR at that point. I do have a BMF though... Since I've had it for almost a month now, I can use it pretty well for averages though. My weight loss hasn't stalled yet... It's just so slow - and without seeing changes, I worry that it's just water weight slowly coming off....lol.

    1) 10lbs in 2 months IS something to write home about. We've all gotten the idea from the horrible diet industry and shows like the biggest loser that weight loss happens FAST if you're doing it "right" -- if you've bought the right program, if you cut out the right foods from your diet, etc.

    Thanks, tameko. It's definitely hard to get the thought that I'm not losing fast enough... especially when I see other tickers and stories of weight just peeling off.

    Thanks soooo much, Dani, Gesn, and tameko for responding and your advice.. I appreciate it greatly... All of it was helpful - and reassuring. :-)

    I'm thinking that I will either keep pushing with SLs without worrying about increasing for a week or two... Or maybe I'll do a modified version at home with dumbbells for a week... I don't want to lose the gains I've made... Nor do I want to have to start over, so to speak, if I take a break completely... :-)
  • Fittreelol
    Fittreelol Posts: 2,535 Member
    Speed through post. I' had a long day and I'm a tired tree. YAWN

    Tameko I love reading your ****. You should be an advice columnist. I'd read you! I read all of them though so I'm not sure if that's a compliment.


    Lifted today.

    Squats 135 3x5 repeat.
    OHP 177 3x5
    Dead 195 1x5

    Keep picking things up, (but don't forget to put them down!)
  • Fiesty1006
    Fiesty1006 Posts: 95 Member
    OHP 177 3x5

    Tree, all of your numbers are impressive... Your OHP number, however, leaves me speechless.... Just... Wow.
  • @ Tameko thank you for the awesome post as always I feel way better after reading...

    Been frustrated lately with the process and have kinda let the diet go...tho with my new work schedule I don't really have time to overeat, then again don't really have time for healthy food!! Lots of protein bars and whatever I can grab from the mini cafe.

    Really like the part about willpower. Right now it's taking a lot out of me mentally to just do the 3x/week lifting. I think I am over my initial honeymoon phase of 'omg this is so new and fun!' and into the frustration phase. I'm starting to get incredibly bored of squatting so dang often and because I'm on a 20% ish defecit, if I eat ''enough'' grams of protein I'm exhausted from being low on carbs but if i eat more carbs I'm anxious about losing muscle mass.

    BUT I committed to myself to do the 12 weeks. Right now I'm probably (hopefully?) between the honeymoon phase and the real results phase in terms of body comp so I have to just stick to the program...

    @Tree, you are amazing at OHP! And I would be the person to forget to put something down... :laugh:
  • lwoodroff
    lwoodroff Posts: 1,431 Member
    tameko, wonderful advice! and I hear you on the concentration poi... SQUIRREL!

    also, an average of 5lb a month is brilliant!!

    lassie - maybe reduce your deficit to 10% or don't worry quite as much about the protein?
  • Fittreelol
    Fittreelol Posts: 2,535 Member
    Speed through post. I' had a long day and I'm a tired tree. YAWN

    Tameko I love reading your ****. You should be an advice columnist. I'd read you! I read all of them though so I'm not sure if that's a compliment.


    Lifted today.

    Squats 135 3x5 repeat.
    OHP 177 3x5
    Dead 195 1x5

    Keep picking things up, (but don't forget to put them down!)

    rofl should be 77. It would be embarrasing if my ohp were so much more than my squat.
  • kirabob
    kirabob Posts: 481 Member
    Embarrassing, but epic. :smile:
  • BikerGirlElaine
    BikerGirlElaine Posts: 1,631 Member
    And you didn't ask about this, but setting your calorie target -- I use my actual results over the last eight weeks to set my goal.

    I'm all for advice on calorie targets too... :-) How do you use the last eight weeks to set your goal though? I mean, I have the data.. and the weight loss that corresponds to each week... But I bounced around so much while setting my goal... When I saw the largest loss was in the first week or two... and I was eating below BMR and RMR at that point. I do have a BMF though... Since I've had it for almost a month now, I can use it pretty well for averages though. My weight loss hasn't stalled yet... It's just so slow - and without seeing changes, I worry that it's just water weight slowly coming off....lol.

    How to calculate your actual TDEE is explained in this thread:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets

    I don't know anything about how BMF's work so can't help you there. I just take my calories eaten, my pounds lost times 3,500 to get 'calories lost', add the two together, and divide by the number of days.

    Like I said, it's been working like a charm for me so far. My TDEE is much higher so far than any calculator gave me. so at first I was taking too deep of a cut and I was hungry a lot. When I got 8 weeks of data an started using my actual, I ate a little bit more and felt much better.

    I gather that this way works better when your activity is fairly consistent over time. I've noticed that when I am on my feet more with my hobbies, my TDEE creeps up noticeably, like 100-200 cal per day, which is significant when you're eating in a deficit!! :wink:

    Hope this helps!
  • BikerGirlElaine
    BikerGirlElaine Posts: 1,631 Member
    because I'm on a 20% ish defecit, if I eat ''enough'' grams of protein I'm exhausted from being low on carbs but if i eat more carbs I'm anxious about losing muscle mass.

    Yeah, I totally get this Fishlover, it's been very tricky for me, too. Plus getting enough fats is very important, too! I tried lowering my carbs and upping my fats on rest days and that didn't work at all, I was really grumpy :angry: Some days it feels like a tightrope to get 'enough' of everything. On those days, I just go over a little bit and don't worry about it. I don't think you have much fat to lose, so maybe a 20% deficit is too much for you now? Not that I would know, LOL, not having been in that position before!!
  • glwerth
    glwerth Posts: 335 Member
    Tameko: You are very wise.....just an observation. Such level-headed advice and I needed it too. So, thanks!

    Tree: I was going to say WOW about the OHP....and wonder if I'd ever get there, but I strangely feel a little better that it is 77 rather than 177! I still marvel at your progress though! I'm stuck at 70 and unable to progress....must get me some of those washer things.

    My back is much better. Yesterday was spent alternating ice and stretching. Went to bed frustrated that it seemed worse. This morning, got up, started stretches and had a HUGE snapping (like a zipper) as it all realigned. Now, a bit of muscle soreness, but much better. I took today off (cardio only day) and will be able to lift tomorrow.

    I never thought I'd be anxious about not lifting. I never thought I'd be lifting at all. Wish I'd been doing this when my kids were smaller, they'd have been WAY easier to lug around in those baby carriers or even the sling!
  • Will_Thrust_For_Candy
    Will_Thrust_For_Candy Posts: 6,109 Member
    For awhile there I was trying to hit bit protein targets....like 150g a day (in my opinion that is a lot!) and I just was feeling heavy all the time....started to not feel great. In order to get that much protein on a deficit of course I was sacrificing carbs. Decided to go back down to 100-130g of protein/day and not stress about it and I have been SO much happier. It was exhausting to eat that much protein....it took so much planning and honestly, it sometimes wasn't even enjoyable! Not to mention the chaos that it caused in my stomach and *stuff* :laugh:
  • Fiesty1006
    Fiesty1006 Posts: 95 Member

    How to calculate your actual TDEE is explained in this thread:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819055-setting-your-calorie-and-macro-targets


    Thanks for that! Based on the calculations you referenced and those mentioned in the thread, my goal of 2032 seems to be pretty accurate on for a 20% deduction.... Which is reassuring.
  • tameko2
    tameko2 Posts: 31,634 Member
    I'm fond of this calculator because it lets you do TWO things - one for level of normal activity, and then check a box if you workout hard 4-5 times a week but if you think you do a little less than that then I would run it twice - once with, once without, and assume your TDEE is in the middle.

    http://www.health-calc.com/diet/energy-expenditure-classic

    I used to think the number was wildly high but it seems to be coming out about right for me after loads of experimentation.

    I will add the caveat that ALL of these calculators are not goingto take into account very high bodyfat, so if you are 200 lbs and 30% bf they're probably fairly on, but if you're 200lbs and 45% bf its going to overestimate quite a lot. Make sure you check the box for "female"

    I'm not super fond of the "past 8 weeks' method for determining MAINTENANCE specifically, only because dieting tends to slow your metabolism, so if you lose 1lb/week eating 2000, your metabolism is probably more like 2600-2700 than 2500 due to spontaneous reduction in NEAT."

    Also if you are eating maintenance you do not need to worry abotu your protein intake as much. You still need to eat SOME when you workout for muscle repair (depending on weight, at least 25-35 grams of protein vaguely in timeframe of your workout - like within an hour or two on either side) and obviously some for your body to function healthily, but you don't need to eat as MUCH because you don't need to worry about muscle catabolization if you aren't dieting.

    I don't think catabolization is a word, but whatever.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
    I don't think catabolization is a word, but whatever.
    I completely read it as cannibalization, which sort of also works (muscle eats itself, says me, no citation required, ™).

    I was about to say that the calculator was super high for me (a lot of the "simple" calculators are). I didn't even think about the fact that I have high bf% would throw them off. Makes total sense though, and also explains why heybales spreadsheet (which accounts for bf%) is so much lower.
  • kirabob
    kirabob Posts: 481 Member
    I've been using the calculator that Tameko cites - it has helped me see that even at 1950 I was eating at something crazy like a 25%cut (I don't have that much left to lose). I also choose not to worry about hitting my protein goals - but I am gluten free, and eat about 75% grain-free, so it's pretty easy for me to get at least 100g a day, and my body is used to it.

    A for me today, and I was really excited:

    5x5 100 lb. squats
    5x5 80 lb. bench press - this was reallly tough, but I did it!
    5x5 95 lb. Pendlay rows - The (huge) guy next to me said "Those things are beastly. I just skip them." Your loss, buddy, your loss. :smile:

    I also did 5x5 assisted chin ups, with 66 lbs. of my body weight - that was a big jump, but it felt the 'right' amount of challenging.
    5x5 assisted dips, 61 pounds - probably could have gone to 66, but it was the end of the day and I was wiped.

    I was going to do a finisher, had it all printed out, then remembered that I had to mow the lawn today. Seeing as it takes me 1.5 hours, that's more than enough finishing for me!

    Have a great day, all!