Strikes at McDonald's, Wendy's to pay employees $15 hour.
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So it seems to me that your issue should be with Lozze who posted this:Well no... I took issue because the thread was getting away from the subject (derailment) and you were participating (engaging the derailer and encouraging response).
"S glad I'm not American. Who would want to live such a selfish life that you don't want people being paid enough to surivive?
And I but most of you call yourselves Christians too. Interesting to see your faces when your God casts you to he'll for ignoring everything that he put down."
You should also have a problem with whierd who replied to it.
I respond to a response and you zero in on me.0 -
Well to be fair when the minimum wage was 4.25/hr it was easier to live off of that then it is to live off of 7:25/hr today. Inflation has always stayed ahead of the minimum wage and I am sure it always will.
I completely agree. Most of us had to start somewhere. In my case, my first job paid $4.25/hr. I have bust my *kitten* to get where I am today and don't regret all of the hard work and sacrifice it took me to get there.I didn't make $15 an hour for jobs that required a college education.
And how many people are working entry level fast food jobs (I know there are SOME, but is it a vast majority?) to take care of families? Aren't a lot of them high school and college kids?
Where I live there are a good amount of adults that work at the fast food restaurants. That said, it's not that they don't deserve more money, but it just doesn't make sense as you already pointed out that people with college educations don't even always make $15 an hour right now.
Oh, I make more than that now. But I had to work my way to it. I had minimum wage, unskilled labor jobs while working on my education, then went out into the full-time workforce. I made $10 an hour at my very first full-time job, that did not require a degree. Then decided to pursue journalism (talk about underpaid). I started at $8 an hour at my first newspaper job. I probably would have made more at McDonald's. lol
And I think the fast food industry likes to promote from within so some of the burger flippers can work up to management and the managers do very well.
If they want to make more money, they should work on moving up in the world and not staying in those jobs.
(Edited because I made a terrible -- typo? -- and I am an editor and need to be worthy of MY salary! lol)0 -
Soldier,
I really don't want to see another "debating" group thread unravel into a religious debate with you as the champion of the "anti-Christian" view. But I do have to say that I believe you have grossly misinterpretted the bible.
Why should so-called Christians be the only ones with a right to grossly misinterpret the Bible?0 -
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I'm sure glad the discussion has gotten back on track.0
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These are some of the most profitable corporations around. Just wondering why the employees, many of whom are now having to rely on these jobs as full time, family supporting employment, shouldn't be paid a little more?0
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These are some of the most profitable corporations around. Just wondering why the employees, many of whom are now having to rely on these jobs as full time, family supporting employment, shouldn't be paid a little more?
Because they’re franchises, the owners of each restaurant don’t have access to cooperate funds.0 -
These are some of the most profitable corporations around. Just wondering why the employees, many of whom are now having to rely on these jobs as full time, family supporting employment, shouldn't be paid a little more?
The cost of labor isn't just wages. It also includes hiring, training, unemployment insurance, workman's comp insurance, and, if an employee is worked more than 30 hours a week, there is the expense of healthcare. As previously stated, franchise owners would be hit the hardest, but if you force these companies to double wages, subsequently, they will seek out ways to reduce the cost of labor, which means fewer jobs and stricter requirements to get those jobs.
Think about it. I have two degrees and work for the government. I do not make $15 an hour. If I can make more at fast food and have two degrees, then I might consider leaving my job for fast food. If other educated people do the same, then fast food jobs will have a greater applicant pool of well-educated people, which will make competition for those jobs more serious. Eventually, you will have to have a college degree to work at McDonald's.0 -
These are some of the most profitable corporations around. Just wondering why the employees, many of whom are now having to rely on these jobs as full time, family supporting employment, shouldn't be paid a little more?
Because they are willing to work at the price they are currently being paid.0 -
I have a question for those who are against a "living wage" (not sure where I fall on this yet). A major point for these is that they are jobs meant for unskilled workers. Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
Isn't that what college is for?? My parents didn't have much money when I was growing up; my dad was in and out of crappy jobs pretty much the whole time; yet my brother and I both attended and obtained college degrees. We did it with the help of student loans and grants-no trust fund. If someone working a crappy job at a fast food joint isn't happy or feels he/she is 'entitled' to more money the he/she needs to go to school and get a degree. There is no reason why that person cannot obtain an education on their own as well-I earned my degree while working 40+ hours a week and with a 2 year old in tow. It is completely do-able.0 -
I have a question for those who are against a "living wage" (not sure where I fall on this yet). A major point for these is that they are jobs meant for unskilled workers. Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
We already have those programs. The lazy people who want to earn 15 an hour for doing nothing, don't want to sign up and learn a viable skill.
there are endless government funded job training classes to take.
This. Everywhere that I have ever lived, there have also been this thing called a community college... they are cheaper than dirt and usually have programs to teach people a skill. The one I graduated from had Cosmotology, Auto Mechanics, Auto Body, Electrician, HVAC, Welding, Carpentry... and a few others that escape me right now. These were all valid two year programs that qualified for the Pell grant (which if you were awarded the full amount (as I was and my dad was in the military at the time) then the Pell would more than cover the tuition, fees and books needed to go. My brother got into the HVAC and as Electricians apprentice just by working his *kitten* off.
You don't even have to do it through a college. Every single unemployment office everywhere offers job training classes free.
And there is that. I know my brother didn't go to college to work as an electrician and in HVAC. He apprenticed. But my point is, that it is fairly easy to gain a skill to be better paid... one just must do it. And according to Mike Rowe (of Dirty Jobs) there are lots of skilled blue collar jobs out there... people just need to go get them. Some of them even pay better than what most college graduates can make.0 -
No. The point was that this statement is complete nonsense: "the high school students these jobs are pretty much designed for."
Everyone's point with this statement is fast food is not a career path and it shouldn't be... unless you really want to be an owner/manager of one... it is a below entry level job that requires absolutely no skills whatsoever... you barely need to know how to count... listening skills are typically bare minimum... and english skills are usually half a notch above that.
I'm not saying fast food is easy... I've been there, it's not.
And yeah, sure inflation sucks... it sucks for all of us... not just those on bottom. Everyone's bills are going up and pay staying stagnant... My health insurance is going up by 13% and we are getting a 1% raise... yeah... 1%... that is only our second measly raise in the past 5 years. And we aren't even getting that at the beginning of our fiscal year in a month... nope, we get it in January.
I started out as a college graduate 5 years ago just 3 dollars and some change above what they are demanding... I spent nearly 90 grand on a college education (one whole of my paychecks goes straight to my student loans).... I make only 4 dollars more per hour 5 years, one promotion, and two raises later than I did when I started. Yet, my bills are going up just as much... and guess what, I don't get stipends... I don't get help from the government... tax credits barely make a dent in anything because we are in too high of a tax bracket. We live pay check to pay check as well a lot of the times (because again, our bills are going up too and it's not just us, I know many middle class income families that are going through the same things)... and while you may be thinking this is just some "poor white privilaged girl" whining and complaining... I have always lived on the poor end of middle class (I signed my own life away with student loans because I had NO ONE to help me not even my parents)... and yet we all still survived and yet we all made it...
The point of this all is it sucks for everyone. But raising their pay isn't going to change their plight... only they can do that themselves if they want to.0 -
raising their pay isn't going to change their plight... only they can do that themselves if they want to.
QFT
If you are slinging burgers in McD's for a living with no other prospects -- ever -- you took a wrong turn somewhere in your life.0 -
These same people don’t realize what inflation really is. When many people are given more income, their maximum credit is going to go up. When they run up the credit debt even further, our fiat currency expands thus creating even more inflation. The only way to reduce inflation is for people to pay down their debt and the fed to stop printing so many bills.0
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The irony is that if fast food restaurants start paying $15 an hour many of the people striking for the increased pay will lose their jobs. When someone with no marketable skills is competing with someone with a college degree guess who wins?0
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It's like the people that want to lose xx amount of lbs but want to take a magic pill or drink some elixir, rather than put in the hard work it takes to achieve something.
"you want fries wif dat...."0 -
Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
I sure do!
In fact, Job Corps, a government funded program which has existed since 1964, is where I work. There are 125 of these centers around the country.
We provide not only job training, but GED, diploma, residential living and life training. We pay for these kids to become educated, we clean their teeth, we teach them how to make their bed and do their laundry and at the end we churn out little taxpayers into the country, trained and ready to go in plumbing, carpentry, tile setting, business, medical office support, culinary arts, welding, etc. And we give them a paycheck while they're here learning. It's the best deal going for young people who want to DO something with their life.
Unfortunately our budget has been slashed because EARNING a job isn't fashionable. The fact that this program works and is an actual effective use of taxpayer dollars is probably the reason it has been slashed. Handing out the sittin-at-home checks is WAY more popular way to deal with the uneducated and unwilling.
So we don't need to establish any such program, it exists. We need to quit hacking away at it and expand it.0 -
Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
I sure do!
In fact, Job Corps, a government funded program which has existed since 1964, is where I work. There are 125 of these centers around the country.
We provide not only job training, but GED, diploma, residential living and life training. We pay for these kids to become educated, we clean their teeth, we teach them how to make their bed and do their laundry and at the end we churn out little taxpayers into the country, trained and ready to go in plumbing, carpentry, tile setting, business, medical office support, culinary arts, welding, etc. And we give them a paycheck while they're here learning. It's the best deal going for young people who want to DO something with their life.
Unfortunately our budget has been slashed because EARNING a job isn't fashionable. The fact that this program works and is an actual effective use of taxpayer dollars is probably the reason it has been slashed. Handing out the sittin-at-home checks is WAY more popular way to deal with the uneducated and unwilling.
So we don't need to establish any such program, it exists. We need to quit hacking away at it and expand it.
The Jobs Corps is a great program. I recently read a Heritage Foundation piece saying it was ineffectual and should be slashed or shut down. I agree with you that it should be getting more of our funding rather than less.
The point of my question was that many people I speak to who say that people should get training and go to school to "get a real job" often do not support the federal funding that enables people to do this.
While I agree that there are some who would rather just sit "on the dole" I would present that the number is far lower than people are led to believe. Most would love to make more money but lack the time, money or locations to receive this training. Providing better access in both location and timing reduces these very real barriers and will provide people a way upward.0 -
Do you support government funds going toward establishing programs to teach the unskilled workers skills so that they can find viable employment?
I sure do!
In fact, Job Corps, a government funded program which has existed since 1964, is where I work. There are 125 of these centers around the country.
We provide not only job training, but GED, diploma, residential living and life training. We pay for these kids to become educated, we clean their teeth, we teach them how to make their bed and do their laundry and at the end we churn out little taxpayers into the country, trained and ready to go in plumbing, carpentry, tile setting, business, medical office support, culinary arts, welding, etc. And we give them a paycheck while they're here learning. It's the best deal going for young people who want to DO something with their life.
Unfortunately our budget has been slashed because EARNING a job isn't fashionable. The fact that this program works and is an actual effective use of taxpayer dollars is probably the reason it has been slashed. Handing out the sittin-at-home checks is WAY more popular way to deal with the uneducated and unwilling.
So we don't need to establish any such program, it exists. We need to quit hacking away at it and expand it.
I would prefer more programs like this. I have absolutely no problem with job programs such as this. I would pay more local taxes to prop up programs like this... why, because it's teaching people HOW to fish, not just giving them a fish day after day.0 -
Does anyone know what's happened with this?0
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In Indiana 15 dollars an hour to work at Mc Ds is completely over the top and unacceptable. But If you live in NY, the minimum wage they are earning won't even come close to cutting it. So make a choice...either pay the people who do these unskilled crap jobs a livable wage when adjusted for the area codes inflation or support them with your tax money because they can't make it. In theory, it sounds great that we can just shake our fingers at fast food workers and tell them...."Do better with your life." But those jobs are needed. If you don't eat at fast food joints, then you have no dog in this hunt...but if you do and you are against giving those jobs to illegals, than the person has to be able to afford an apartment and at least the bare essentials of living. like food and clothing. I don't think you can do that with NY minimum wage. I guess I just don't have it in me to wish complete and utter poverty on people who are willing to work a full time job.0
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What's ironic is that l make $15 an hour and struggle for a family of 3.. A former co-worker told me that even though her kids were grown, she she didn't really bring home more money than when she was young. She just had more bills and more debt. More money, more problems.
A few things to remember when you say you want to make more money. You will pay much more in taxes. I remember when I got my first raise at this job and was thrilled until my paycheck didn't go up, because I got knocked into a high tax bracket. Also, going from minimum wage to $15/hour, you are probably going to make too much for any kind of government assistance yet too little to get through alone. It's actually harder being in the middle where you don't make enough for an easy life yet make too little to get free/reduced government subsidies..0 -
In Indiana 15 dollars an hour to work at Mc Ds is completely over the top and unacceptable. But If you live in NY, the minimum wage they are earning won't even come close to cutting it. So make a choice...either pay the people who do these unskilled crap jobs a livable wage when adjusted for the area codes inflation or support them with your tax money because they can't make it. In theory, it sounds great that we can just shake our fingers at fast food workers and tell them...."Do better with your life." But those jobs are needed. If you don't eat at fast food joints, then you have no dog in this hunt...but if you do and you are against giving those jobs to illegals, than the person has to be able to afford an apartment and at least the bare essentials of living. like food and clothing. I don't think you can do that with NY minimum wage. I guess I just don't have it in me to wish complete and utter poverty on people who are willing to work a full time job.
Because people making minimum wage are clearly living within city limits where a parking space costs $200,000.
Seems legit...
A couple I know who work as accountants on Wall Street making over $200,000 don't live within city limits. They're smart enough to realize that cost of living is cheaper over in New Jersey. And that's including Jersey's astronomical property tax.0 -
I'm sure that the cost of living from wherever they might be commuting from is still higher than the nations average. And good for your friends. I'm glad they were smart enough as well. Still doesn't solve the problem. And I don't know, I have never lived on the east coast, but how cost effective would it be to commute to an $8 dollar an hour McD's job from New Jersey to New York?0
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I'm sure that the cost of living from wherever they might be commuting from is still higher than the nations average. And good for your friends. I'm glad they were smart enough as well. Still doesn't solve the problem. And I don't know, I have never lived on the east coast, but how cost effective would it be to commute to an $8 dollar an hour McD's job from New Jersey to New York?
Taking the train to port and the ferry across, not expensive at all. We've already discussed why raising minimum wage to $15 would be a bad idea. It's just going to raise cost of living since people are willing to pay more for goods. Now that $15/hour is buying the same amount of goods that $8/hour did. No one on capital hill thinks it's a good idea to raise minimum wage that high. These people are lucky that the nation is considering raising it to $10/hour. This is a concept referred to as "market equilibrium". Higher pay equates to more demand in goods thus suppliers will raise prices to prevent a shortage.0 -
I'm sure that the cost of living from wherever they might be commuting from is still higher than the nations average. And good for your friends. I'm glad they were smart enough as well. Still doesn't solve the problem. And I don't know, I have never lived on the east coast, but how cost effective would it be to commute to an $8 dollar an hour McD's job from New Jersey to New York?
Taking the train to port and the ferry across, not expensive at all. We've already discussed why raising minimum wage to $15 would be a bad idea. It's just going to raise cost of living since people are willing to pay more for goods. Now that $15/hour is buying the same amount of goods that $8/hour did. No one on capital hill thinks it's a good idea to raise minimum wage that high. These people are lucky that the nation is considering raising it to $10/hour. This is a concept referred to as "market equilibrium". Higher pay equates to more demand in goods thus suppliers will raise prices to prevent a shortage.
I didn't think that they were trying to raise the minimum wage for everyone to 15 dollars and hour...just the fast food people in these certain states or cities. And I just did a skim of the NY waterway Ferry services.....and too you it's not expensive at all. But it cost 9 dollars for an adult ticket from Hoboken to Manhattan. And that is assuming the person lives close enough to walk to the ferry and no extra charge, because if they have a bike....it's another 1.25. And that is one way. So a person who is making 8 dollars an hour has to pay $20.50 just to get back and forth to work from Hoboken, which has a cost of living 1.69 time higher than the United States average. I picked Hoboken because it was on the Ferry map. If you can give me an area that is a reasonable commute to NY city that has a cost of living cheap enough that a single person who works full time at a fast food joint and isn't completely impoverished, I would be interested.0 -
I didn't think that they were trying to raise the minimum wage for everyone to 15 dollars and hour...just the fast food people in these certain states or cities. And I just did a skim of the NY waterway Ferry services.....and too you it's not expensive at all. But it cost 9 dollars for an adult ticket from Hoboken to Manhattan. And that is assuming the person lives close enough to walk to the ferry and no extra charge, because if they have a bike....it's another 1.25. And that is one way. So a person who is making 8 dollars an hour has to pay $20.50 just to get back and forth to work from Hoboken, which has a cost of living 1.69 time higher than the United States average. I picked Hoboken because it was on the Ferry map. If you can give me an area that is a reasonable commute to NY city that has a cost of living cheap enough that a single person who works full time at a fast food joint and isn't completely impoverished, I would be interested.
Hoboken is easy, just take the bus, it's cheaper and even has a flat monthly rate. It would make more sense to do two things; work at a closer fast food restaurant because they're everywhere or move to a place where cost of living is lower.
As we've already discussed, most fast food restaurants are franchises and do not have access to corporate funds. Workers get paid based on what each restaurant makes. To make matters worse, the profit from most sales is very small, maybe a few cents per item. Raising prices wont work becuause we're still in a recession. Customers won’t be willing to pay $1.75 for items that used to cost $0.99. Especially if they can go across the street to a competitor and get a cheaper meal. The other option is to cut costs by replacing non-skilled workers with other non-skilled workers who will take a lower paycheck. Or replace them with automated machines which would cut costs immensely; Europe has already begun doing this. Like it or not, survival is not a factor in capitalist economics; the only thing we can really do is sympathize.0 -
I didn't think that they were trying to raise the minimum wage for everyone to 15 dollars and hour...just the fast food people in these certain states or cities. And I just did a skim of the NY waterway Ferry services.....and too you it's not expensive at all. But it cost 9 dollars for an adult ticket from Hoboken to Manhattan. And that is assuming the person lives close enough to walk to the ferry and no extra charge, because if they have a bike....it's another 1.25. And that is one way. So a person who is making 8 dollars an hour has to pay $20.50 just to get back and forth to work from Hoboken, which has a cost of living 1.69 time higher than the United States average. I picked Hoboken because it was on the Ferry map. If you can give me an area that is a reasonable commute to NY city that has a cost of living cheap enough that a single person who works full time at a fast food joint and isn't completely impoverished, I would be interested.
Hoboken is easy, just take the bus, it's cheaper and even has a flat monthly rate. It would make more sense to do two things; work at a closer fast food restaurant because they're everywhere or move to a place where cost of living is lower.
As we've already discussed, most fast food restaurants are franchises and do not have access to corporate funds. Workers get paid based on what each restaurant makes. To make matters worse, the profit from most sales is very small, maybe a few cents per item. Raising prices wont work becuause we're still in a recession. Customers won’t be willing to pay $1.75 for items that used to cost $0.99. Especially if they can go across the street to a competitor and get a cheaper meal. The other option is to cut costs by replacing non-skilled workers with other non-skilled workers who will take a lower paycheck. Or replace them with automated machines which would cut costs immensely; Europe has already begun doing this. Like it or not, survival is not a factor in capitalist economics; the only thing we can really do is sympathize.
At some point the only people who would be willing to take the job are the illegals. I understand what you are saying about each individual place making it's own profits, but I don't think a Mc D's downtown would have a profit problem or shortage of customers. You said that the cost of living downtown was outrageous and these people should commute....but then you said they should find work closer to home. Using that logic, we would have no one working at these places. And at some point, maybe these people will be replaced mostly by automated machines, but that will happen no matter what if it becomes more cost effective. And survival might not be a factor in the capitalist philosophy...that's why pure capitalism doesn't work and neither does pure communism. If we were true capitalists, pure ones, we wouldn't have our government involved with minimum wage and workers rights in the first place.0 -
At some point the only people who would be willing to take the job are the illegals. I understand what you are saying about each individual place making it's own profits, but I don't think a Mc D's downtown would have a profit problem or shortage of customers. You said that the cost of living downtown was outrageous and these people should commute....but then you said they should find work closer to home. Using that logic, we would have no one working at these places. And at some point, maybe these people will be replaced mostly by automated machines, but that will happen no matter what if it becomes more cost effective. And survival might not be a factor in the capitalist philosophy...that's why pure capitalism doesn't work and neither does pure communism. If we were true capitalists, pure ones, we wouldn't have our government involved with minimum wage and workers rights in the first place.
Those positions are supposed to be filled by low skill high school and college students. If said student doesn't get a degree and stays with the company, they're now just a low skilled adult and expendable. Most states are “at-will” employment which means they can fire anyone for any reason. Part of the reason these people are on strike is because they consider it worth the risk of even a small raise. Most agree that even if fired, it’s easy to find work elsewhere. While a small raise is reasonable (which they likely want), $15 is not going to happen. They’re betting on a counter-offer of a slightly higher wage increase.
The government doesn't want people dependent on social programs but too many people are abusing the system. This is why our GSEs are getting major overhauls to prevent further tax burdens on the US population. This means a raise in fast food won’t matter anymore because the average American would be forced to rent. None of these people will have the capital for a home mortgage. WE could go back and fourth on social programs but that's off topic and not going to fix things. The best thing these people have to hope for is the potentional $10 minium wage being considered.
It all comes down to the same thing. People with an education earn more money.0 -
So, I just re-read a lot of this and I want to state a few things.
To start with, we are in agreement that I also do not think that they are actually holding out for the 15, that is just how negotiating usually starts and I agree that they would take the 10.
Why I disagree with is what you and several people have stated about "high school jobs" or "college jobs". There are no such thing. Any high school student who wants to enter the work force early for whatever reasons gets and a job....the same ones that adults do. Since we have outlawed child labor, it is automatically assumed that all jobs are adult ones. So whether a person is 16, 18, 22, or 30, regardless of age, sex, color or creed they get paid the same for the same entrance level job. Their pay is less automatically because most students cannot work full time, there for make less than a full time employee.
Next....I think maybe people who are in a military uniform might be a little more sensitive when categorizing other people as expendable, because to the people who are over you, you are.
But I guess that is the problem I have with this whole debate, it is with the absolute judgmental attitude by so man posters who are absolutely looking down their noses at these workers....and I guarantee that these people are the very ones who would have a conniption fit about welfare and unemployment. These jobs need to be filled...end of story, so once again, my opinion is anyone willing to work hard full time should be able to survive. Rent, food, clothing. These people can't. And over and over again you keep hearing people whine about how much they make in comparison or what they used to make......how is the cost of living here totally getting ignored? If you get paid 8 bucks an hour in southern Indiana, that's ok because the cost of living is low, but in NYC that is crazy. So I just can't help but think that people aren't taking that into consideration.
Next....what's with the generalizing that people in these fast food positions are lazy? Have you ever worked in any service industry. True, it's not rocket science and it is monotonous...but it can be hard work....as hard as most of you are doing in your air-conditioned offices..
And let's talk about your "skilled" labor. Unless you are a rocket scientist, surgeon, or some other outstanding profession...whether or not you got that BS degree that taught you absolutely nothing about the real world or the actual job you would be doing, your jobs in all likelihood are not all that complicated either. But if we are going to stand in judgment of people who are scraping by at these crap jobs, I have to say it is only fair that I stand in judgment of ninnies who have 2-3 degrees and are STILL struggling. I mean, come on.
And did I hear an frickin architect say he might as well quit his job and go work at a fast food joint for that gravy 15 bucks an hour. Are you the worst architect in history? What do you design, doll houses for blind kids who can't see If they suck or not?
Being judgmental of people with less money is fun!0
