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Speed of reps
paprad
Posts: 321 Member
I don't have a trainer and have worked on my form after viewing endless videos and reading lots of guides. Today, after someone watched my form, I was told I was doing my reps too fast, and that could be true. Is there a way to count reps? I presume there is a sweet spot between too fast and too slow - or is it that the slower the better? I am doing the AllPro Routine, which begins with 8 reps and ends with 12 reps, which means in the fifth week I would be doing 48 reps of each exercise. Clearly if I did each rep verreeee verreee slowly, i would spend all day in the gym. Should I do a one-mississippi, two-mississippi - or is that just sillysilly?
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What you are referring to is the concept of "cadence" or "time under tension." I think this one of the more critically important components of good form, but it gets lost on most people. The number of sets listed in most programs are just a bunch of made-up crap. What matters is how long your muscles are under tension before you fail. Here is some research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22106173These data show that greater muscle time under tension increased the acute amplitude of mitochondrial and sarcoplasmic protein synthesis and also resulted in a robust, but delayed stimulation of myofibrillar protein synthesis 24-30 h after resistance exercise.
A set should take about 75 seconds. Slow it down. Emphasize the negative portion of the lift. Move the bar until you can't move it any more. Eat a steak. Make some gains. Profit.
Here is a good article:
http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/gain-big-with-time-under-tension-training0 -
Depends what you're going for. I can side with arguements of going slow if your primary goal is hypertrophy.
But if you're trying to move more weight and get stronger, moving it quickly is the way to go.0 -
What you are referring to is the concept of "cadence" or "time under tension." I think this one of the more critically important components of good form, but it gets lost on most people. The number of sets listed in most programs are just a bunch of made-up crap. What matters is how long your muscles are under tension before you fail.
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A set should take about 75 seconds.
Thanks for the links Errata, I will go through them. I am a bit confused by the above, though. If the number of sets is not relevant but a set should take 75 seconds - how many reps would be in that set? Do you mean I should do as many reps as I can, as slowly as i can, as long as it is for 75 seconds.
I am sorry if I sound a bit dense, but as a newbie to lifting, I find the "as slow as you can" a difficult method to follow - would some sort of counting work?0 -
Thanks ilovedeadlift - that's a good point. I am nearly 50 and I just began lifting. My weights are very low so far, though I've increased by some 40% in the last four months. So I would say that for now, I want to get stronger, lift heavier - I am eating at a deficit so gaining muscle is not possible anyway. So I guess that rules out hypertrophy.Depends what you're going for. I can side with arguements of going slow if your primary goal is hypertrophy.
But if you're trying to move more weight and get stronger, moving it quickly is the way to go.0 -
Depends what you're going for. I can side with arguements of going slow if your primary goal is hypertrophy.
But if you're trying to move more weight and get stronger, moving it quickly is the way to go.
Are you saying she should jerk the weight around as fast as she can to gain strength?0 -
It might a bit over kill to time the tempo of reps but you should be making sure the eccentric portion of the rep is controlled. Say on bench press you would want to control the weight on the way down instead of just letting gravity lower it for you.
In addition to the other articles posted here is another good one.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/the_hypertrophy_specialist0 -
Depends what you're going for. I can side with arguements of going slow if your primary goal is hypertrophy.
But if you're trying to move more weight and get stronger, moving it quickly is the way to go.
Are you saying she should jerk the weight around as fast as she can to gain strength?
Moving quickly =/= jerking the weight around (well, at least not necessarily).0 -
Keep it simple. Based on your lifting experience and goals, don't over think it. Keep the motion controlled but go as fast or slow as 'feels right'. You do not have to bother to time anything. Strength goals have very little to do with TUT, so don't mess around with it. Just control your lifts.0
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Are you breathing properly? Sometimes that can be an issue when going too quickly.0
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What you are referring to is the concept of "cadence" or "time under tension." I think this one of the more critically important components of good form, but it gets lost on most people. The number of sets listed in most programs are just a bunch of made-up crap. What matters is how long your muscles are under tension before you fail. Here is some research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22106173These data show that greater muscle time under tension increased the acute amplitude of mitochondrial and sarcoplasmic protein synthesis and also resulted in a robust, but delayed stimulation of myofibrillar protein synthesis 24-30 h after resistance exercise.
A set should take about 75 seconds. Slow it down. Emphasize the negative portion of the lift. Move the bar until you can't move it any more. Eat a steak. Make some gains. Profit.
Here is a good article:
http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/gain-big-with-time-under-tension-training
You do not need to move the bar until you can't move it anymore, and in fact that can be counter-productive if done too often and the advisability of it is dependent on your routine. You also do not need to eat steak.
I would also argue that sets/reps in programs are not a bunch of made up crap.0 -
As your goal is strength more than muscle gain, this is not as relevant, but as the topic digressed that way before you were asked what your goals were, this is a good read:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/4_reasons_youre_not_gaining_muscle
Another one from Brad Schoenfeld (mustgetmuscles' link was an interview of him by Contreras). His stuff is very solid.0 -
While I agree with keeping the eccentric contraction of the movement slow and controlled, wouldn't you want to power through the concentric contraction in order to activate your fast-twitch muscle fibers?0
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While I agree with keeping the eccentric contraction of the movement slow and controlled, wouldn't you want to power through the concentric contraction in order to activate your fast-twitch muscle fibers?
Depends on goals, but it should always be controlled.0 -
Based on your lifting experience and goals, don't over think it. Keep the motion controlled but go as fast or slow as 'feels right'.
^this.0 -
That's great, thanks for the advice and the links, Sara. I am not jerking and I think I am controlled but perhaps I can work on control more consciously than I've done so far.
PriceK, I did wonder about the breathing issue - with 12 reps, i can't do the same kind of breath control as is possible with say 3-5 reps, so sometimes I find myself holding the breath for 2 reps at a time, and it may contribute the speed, perhaps.0 -
You'll have to pardon my terrible advice. Since the amount of time under tension is irrelevant to strength gains, just lift your 1RM repeatedly until you get stronger. You clearly cannot get stronger by lifting lighter weights over a longer period of time with more reps, so please disregard all routines like Sheiko, which emphasize volume.
My bad.0 -
You'll have to pardon my terrible advice. Since the amount of time under tension is irrelevant to strength gains, just lift your 1RM repeatedly until you get stronger. You clearly cannot get stronger by lifting lighter weights over a longer period of time with more reps, so please disregard all routines like Sheiko, which emphasize volume.
My bad.
Snark..not necessary, not productive and not welcome here. No one said that TUT is irrelevant.0 -
You'll have to pardon my terrible advice. Since the amount of time under tension is irrelevant to strength gains, just lift your 1RM repeatedly until you get stronger. You clearly cannot get stronger by lifting lighter weights over a longer period of time with more reps, so please disregard all routines like Sheiko, which emphasize volume.
My bad.
The time under tension element of Sheiko is the large amount of overal volume, not lifting the weights at a slower tempo. Which was what you were taking about earlier.
Boris Sheiko himself says that the bar should move as fast as possible on the concentric portion of each rep.
Powerlifters use speed training for a reason, yes overall time under tension is important but I haven't seen many people who trains/coaches people for strength give the tut of each individual set priority over overal total load/frequency/volume/bar speed etc.0 -
You'll have to pardon my terrible advice. Since the amount of time under tension is irrelevant to strength gains, just lift your 1RM repeatedly until you get stronger. You clearly cannot get stronger by lifting lighter weights over a longer period of time with more reps, so please disregard all routines like Sheiko, which emphasize volume.
My bad.
The time under tension element of Sheiko is the large amount of volume, not lifting the weights at a slower tempo. Which was what you were taking about earlier.
Boris Sheiko himself says that the bar should move as fast as possible on the concentric portion of each rep.
Powerlifters use speed training for a reason, yes overall time under tension is important but I haven't seen anyone whi trains/coaches people for strength give the tut of each individual set priority over total load/frequency/volume/bar speed etc.
^^yep. Sheiko has sets primarily in the 3 - 5 rep range.
brb doing 25 second squats and deadlifts....0 -
Just to clarify I do think tut has some use in specific bodybuilding routines [mike menzer /dorian Yates HIT style for example not those set up like allpro]
Although it does seem to have been accepted that those aren't optimal set ups for natural people.0
This discussion has been closed.