Exersice while on keto

Hi, I've started doing HIIT work-out. My question is, should I increase my carb intake or fat intake to make up for the calories lost per day? I don't want my calories to go lower than 1200 per day. I'm thinking maybe increasing my fat intake coz I don't want to eat too many carbs per meal, it'll increase my blood glucose, same goes w/ protein (it converts into glucose as well).
Thank you.
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Replies

  • Increasing Fat is not going to help you in HIIT. At higher intensity your body needs energy fast, which fats can't provide. HIIT+Low carb is not something you would want to do. The muscles will start using lactic acid ATP for fuel and it often means Hydrogen in your muscles. Choose between carbs or not doing HIIT. If you do try, post your experience.
  • mccandlessmom
    mccandlessmom Posts: 21 Member
    Increasing Fat is not going to help you in HIIT. At higher intensity your body needs energy fast, which fats can't provide. HIIT+Low carb is not something you would want to do. The muscles will start using lactic acid ATP for fuel and it often means Hydrogen in your muscles. Choose between carbs or not doing HIIT. If you do try, post your experience.

    I've heard many people state the opposite. In fact I have read many articles that state HIIT is exactly the type of exercise you should be doing on a keto diet. There are also abundant personal testimonies to support it. I would suggest you keep you ratios within your normal boundaries, but when calculating your protein, make sure you use the higher number since you are active. Then, when you exercise, MFP will deduct the calories you burn from your overall daily allowance and you can eat that many more. Good Luck!
  • crepes_
    crepes_ Posts: 583 Member
    I've also read in many places that HIIT is ideal for keto. I suggest you read any research you can find, OP, just for your own peace of mind. I'm sure not many of us are physicians or researchers, so it's best for you to give yourself as much education as you can before making these decisions.

    I did find the following info online, however:
    http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/high-intensity-interval-training.html
    If you work your muscles at enough of an intensity for at least 90 seconds before they fail, all three types of muscle fibers will be called upon to do the work. Once all of these muscle fibers are called on to work, it causes a chemical cascade in the muscle which dumps the stored sugar/glycogen, which in turn increases not only the muscle's size and strength, but also its insulin sensitivity and fat burning potential.



    At that point, the causes of why we get fat are being reversed, glycogen tanks are less full, muscle cells become very sensitive to insulin, insulin levels drop, and fat is released from the fat cells so it can burned for fuel. Now the process of good health and weight is going in the right direction.

    As for the question on the breakdown of the calories you will eat after workouts, I'd honestly suggest sticking to your original macro goals, percentage-wise. Eat as you would normally. If I'm not mistaken, which I very well may be, I think MFP increases your daily goals according to your set standards after exercise.
  • Increasing Fat is not going to help you in HIIT. At higher intensity your body needs energy fast, which fats can't provide. HIIT+Low carb is not something you would want to do. The muscles will start using lactic acid ATP for fuel and it often means Hydrogen in your muscles. Choose between carbs or not doing HIIT. If you do try, post your experience.

    I've heard many people state the opposite. In fact I have read many articles that state HIIT is exactly the type of exercise you should be doing on a keto diet. There are also abundant personal testimonies to support it. I would suggest you keep you ratios within your normal boundaries, but when calculating your protein, make sure you use the higher number since you are active. Then, when you exercise, MFP will deduct the calories you burn from your overall daily allowance and you can eat that many more. Good Luck!

    I don't know what studies you heard but my own testing and Dr Attia were contradictory to high intensity exercises unless your HR falls down drastically in the resting period. It's all about using the right fuel. Get a metabic and RQ test, you will know what fuel your body is using. You can do HIIT, but is it worth putting stress on low carb diet?
  • Finally found this on YouTube. Couldn't find on Dr Attia's blog. This talks about metabolism in ketosis.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NqwvcrA7oe8

    I am on my phone, if link doesn't work just search Dr. Attia on YouTube.

    Call a university near you, they will most likely help you get tested.
  • Thank you all for responding.
    I just read on the bodybuilding forum that they don't recommend HIIT work out on keto but LISS is ok.
    I've been doing HIIT for 3 days now but low intensity work out before that and it seems that my body is getting toned much faster on HIIT. I really love the challenge and I feel sad if I can only do low intensity exercise on keto.
  • FXOjafar
    FXOjafar Posts: 174 Member
    HIT isn't the exercise for a low carb diet. You want sustained effort rather than bursts. Walking, especially hiking/bushwalking is perfect especially if there are some steep climbs and rock scrambling. Weight and resistance training are also good.

    You just don't need to stress yourself out with red faced cardio bursts like carb eaters. You won't win any sprints on keto but you will finish the marathon with energy to spare.
  • Carnivor0us
    Carnivor0us Posts: 1,752 Member
    I've done HIIT on keto just fine, but I've found that consuming a small amount of carbs beforehand (like an apple or some milk) helped and didn't stall weight loss.
  • bacitracin
    bacitracin Posts: 921 Member
    Increasing Fat is not going to help you in HIIT. At higher intensity your body needs energy fast, which fats can't provide. HIIT+Low carb is not something you would want to do. The muscles will start using lactic acid ATP for fuel and it often means Hydrogen in your muscles. Choose between carbs or not doing HIIT. If you do try, post your experience.

    Wait, wut. Can you provide sources for that, Fattyman? Because everything I've ever found states quite the opposite.

    Carnivor0us has it right that a small amount of carbs a half hour to hour beforehand helps sprinting ability and "burst mode" fast twitch muscle fiber, but anyone absolutely CAN do HIIT and tabatas and stuff in ketosis. Take a couple spoonfuls of unrefined virgin coconut oil before you hit the gym, it's a quick-releasing energy source that your body can use very efficiently for sustained periods.

    Yes, generally, carbs are meant for vigorous workouts (sprints, heavy lifts) while fats are recommended for sustained low-intensity labor (marathons, swimming), and I understand where Fattyman is coming from regarding the carby anaerobic ATP production versus the fatty aerobic ATP cycle, but if you are fully fat-adapted, your body actually becomes really good at continuing the Krebs Cycle (anaerobic ATP production) using molecules gained from tearing apart body fat as a substrate instead of using glucose.

    It's pretty much the entire point of the keto diet, to be honest. It's why we have steady levels of blood sugar even if we haven't eaten anything in 3 days and only had a couple pounds of rare veal during the week before that. :) Humans evolved to produce and thrive off of ketone bodies in the absence of glucose.
  • Just go through the link I posted. Attia talks about metabolism in ketosis. You might be a super human but once body hits AT, you will switch to glycogen. Every expert I tales says the something, even guys like Voleck say the same thing. High intensity is bad news on low carb. I want to see some credible study or statement from an expert who said HIIT is good in ketosis. I am curious to see how it is good and at what heart rates?
  • cchild2
    cchild2 Posts: 47 Member
    I would bet that many people (possibly including me) think they are doing HIIT but aren't high intensity enough. So we could still be burning some fat in addition to glycogen.

    Fattyman007 - you don't change your macros when you do sprints/anaerobic, yet isn't this what you suggest others not to do?

    Also, I haven't researched this but MCT such as coconut oil are metabolized differently than other FFA. I wonder if they are used instead of glycogen once you cross over your AT.
  • I've been doing HIIT Tuesday and Thursday mornings on an emtpy stomach and I do sometimes hit a small wall but I just push myself over it. The great thing about HIIT workouts is they can be shorter, mine is 20 mins plus stretching time so I probably spend about 30 mins total. On Sundays I do a longer strength training workout (45-60 min), again in the morning on an empty stomach.
    Right after my workouts (and after my shower) I eat one egg (scambled) with 1 tbsp hwc and 1/2 oz cheese mixed in. This holds me until my real breakfast when I get to work and can be made quickly in the microwave.
    I have noticed results since I started working out (about 3 weeks ago), I feel stronger and I can do single leg squats and hold way better planks than when I started.
    I'm still a cherry red tomato face after but no one is there to see ;)
  • Delicate
    Delicate Posts: 625 Member
    I find my exercise suffers if i 'carb up' prior to it. It only took a few weeks to be able to keep up in my HIIT but thats normal when switching to low carb/keto anyway. I find i exercise better on keto then i ever have prior to it (my blood sugars where fairly unstable befor ei started keto even with taking 1500mg of metformin, which i have no reduced to 500mg with drs approval).

    Do whats better for you, I find this better for me.
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
    I wouldn't worry too much about it - just go by how you feel. Some people are fine doing heavy lifts and other work on a LC diet (particularly with a bit of MCT oil or BCAAs if training fasted), while others find it best to do a TKD where you carb up a bit pre-workout.
  • Leonidas_meets_Spartacus
    Leonidas_meets_Spartacus Posts: 6,198 Member
    Increasing Fat is not going to help you in HIIT. At higher intensity your body needs energy fast, which fats can't provide. HIIT+Low carb is not something you would want to do. The muscles will start using lactic acid ATP for fuel and it often means Hydrogen in your muscles. Choose between carbs or not doing HIIT. If you do try, post your experience.

    Wait, wut. Can you provide sources for that, Fattyman? Because everything I've ever found states quite the opposite.

    Carnivor0us has it right that a small amount of carbs a half hour to hour beforehand helps sprinting ability and "burst mode" fast twitch muscle fiber, but anyone absolutely CAN do HIIT and tabatas and stuff in ketosis. Take a couple spoonfuls of unrefined virgin coconut oil before you hit the gym, it's a quick-releasing energy source that your body can use very efficiently for sustained periods.

    Yes, generally, carbs are meant for vigorous workouts (sprints, heavy lifts) while fats are recommended for sustained low-intensity labor (marathons, swimming), and I understand where Fattyman is coming from regarding the carby anaerobic ATP production versus the fatty aerobic ATP cycle, but if you are fully fat-adapted, your body actually becomes really good at continuing the Krebs Cycle (anaerobic ATP production) using molecules gained from tearing apart body fat as a substrate instead of using glucose.

    It's pretty much the entire point of the keto diet, to be honest. It's why we have steady levels of blood sugar even if we haven't eaten anything in 3 days and only had a couple pounds of rare veal during the week before that. :) Humans evolved to produce and thrive off of ketone bodies in the absence of glucose.

    Watch this video on metabolism in Ketosis including exercise of different intensity. If you are in a hurry watch it after 21 min mark.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqwvcrA7oe8
    Read the book of Volek on performance.
    Can you do HIIT on Keto?
    Sure, You will be getting fuel from carbs not fats once you hit Anerobic Threshold. By product of this is Hydrogen, will you fall off? Absolutely No. You can definitely push through the work out. But is it worth risking a long term injury or muscle stiffness? You decide.
    Personally I don't want hydrogen in my bones.
    When you are fat adapted, you are not going to suddenly burn fat at higher intensities. You might be able to increase the AT to 75% VO2max but its usually harder for even elite athletes.

    Like I said, go do a RMR, VO2/VCo2 test, it will tell you what you are burning for fuel, carbs fats etc at various levels of intensity. Its usually done by putting a mask and measuring Oxygen and CO2. I rather burn 600 cals/ hr at 95% fat than 900 cals and 95% glycogen.

    I would love to see the data of fats/glycogen burned by people who say they are doing HIIT. Even the fittest of guys I have seen at the university in Ketosis usually don't burn more fat after they cross 162 HR. Like I said, you can do HIIT but you are burning carbs and end up with Lactic acid by products in bones.
  • erraticvisitor
    erraticvisitor Posts: 8 Member
    Hello, I would like to share my experience in regards to this topic..

    I have been doing Circuit Trainings (Jillian Michaels'- which go upto 55-60mins) and then 30mins of cross-country training program on Elliptical. I use FTR4 to track my HR and calories burnt. When i started Keto (actually inspired by atkins first) i weighed 95kgs (~209lbs) and in around 3weeks (doing keto at 21g net carb intake and the aforementioned trainings) i weigh down to 88kgs (~194)

    I would feel dizzy (little) and tired after my workout. Completing my 90mins training at gym would take real efforts (maintaining my HR between 155 and 175). Since Monday i started taking a pre-workout drink (greek yougurt+almond milk+dried cranberries+dried raisins+banana) 30-60mins before my workout. After trying this for 3days, I didn't feel dizzy and my workouts would get completed easily. Plus, I would still feel active (instead tired) at the end of workout.

    I find it helpful to have a pre-workout good carb drink so that I can use it for my workout and not affect my overall net carb intake. However, mfp does not sees it this way. It counts the carb intake of my pre-workout drink but my friend asked me not to count pre-workout carb drink as those will get consumed during my workout.


    Your suggestions/comments are welcome to let me know if I'm on right track or doing something wrong.
  • Leonidas_meets_Spartacus
    Leonidas_meets_Spartacus Posts: 6,198 Member
    Hello, I would like to share my experience in regards to this topic..

    I have been doing Circuit Trainings (Jillian Michaels'- which go upto 55-60mins) and then 30mins of cross-country training program on Elliptical. I use FTR4 to track my HR and calories burnt. When i started Keto (actually inspired by atkins first) i weighed 95kgs (~209lbs) and in around 3weeks (doing keto at 21g net carb intake and the aforementioned trainings) i weigh down to 88kgs (~194)

    I would feel dizzy (little) and tired after my workout. Completing my 90mins training at gym would take real efforts (maintaining my HR between 155 and 175). Since Monday i started taking a pre-workout drink (greek yougurt+almond milk+dried cranberries+dried raisins+banana) 30-60mins before my workout. After trying this for 3days, I didn't feel dizzy and my workouts would get completed easily. Plus, I would still feel active (instead tired) at the end of workout.

    I find it helpful to have a pre-workout good carb drink so that I can use it for my workout and not affect my overall net carb intake. However, mfp does not sees it this way. It counts the carb intake of my pre-workout drink but my friend asked me not to count pre-workout carb drink as those will get consumed during my workout.


    Your suggestions/comments are welcome to let me know if I'm on right track or doing something wrong.

    You would need to add it as part of the diary. Adding carbs is a good way to get through high intensity exercises, but you might not be in ketosis. If you don't care about ketosis, this is a great approach. Another drink I use with out getting kicked out opt ketosis is Generation UCAN super starch. I use them only for work outs longer than 90 min though.
  • blablues
    blablues Posts: 37 Member
    I do HIIT style exercises once or twice a week with with a personal trainer and it's pretty much a non-issue for me. I eat my regular keto diet, when I need more calories for any of my exercise, I eat more fat, as usual. I actually last through these exercises better than my husband, who is on a regular high carb diet. I've been on keto since July 2013 and exercising with my trainer since December 2012. I also do long running (half marathons) and Hot Yoga.

    I think the thing you have do is always a N=1 test - just try it, and see how it goes for you. Everyone's body chemistry is different and you just won't know how you'll do until you try it.
  • Leonidas_meets_Spartacus
    Leonidas_meets_Spartacus Posts: 6,198 Member
    I do HIIT style exercises once or twice a week with with a personal trainer and it's pretty much a non-issue for me. I eat my regular keto diet, when I need more calories for any of my exercise, I eat more fat, as usual. I actually last through these exercises better than my husband, who is on a regular high carb diet. I've been on keto since July 2013 and exercising with my trainer since December 2012. I also do long running (half marathons) and Hot Yoga.

    I think the thing you have do is always a N=1 test - just try it, and see how it goes for you. Everyone's body chemistry is different and you just won't know how you'll do until you try it.

    One or two a week is ok, I do my interval sprints once a week with out carb loading. I have seen people trying to do insanity and HIIT every day, which is not a great thing to do on a low carb diet.
  • Booksandbeaches
    Booksandbeaches Posts: 1,791 Member
    I find when I exercise on keto (on my third week), I don't sweat as much as I used to. I don't know it's just a fluke or related to the keto. My workouts are either brisk walking (4 mph) or light jogging or a P90X DVD. My heartrate goes up, but I'm less sweaty.