Agreed.... I can only take in tiny doses before I can't stand it. It's just such a hostile environment.

Oh I'm so thankful I just found this group. It's like a weight lifted! I feel like an outcast 3rd grader on the main forum. I never ask questions because I know the thread will take an ugly turn.

I reported one of the guys in that thread, then sent a private message to the OP. I try not to participate in Paleo threads on the main forums, if for no other reason than that I can't "unfollow" them, so they stick to the top of my "My Topics" list for freakin' ever until they finally roll.

Oh I'm so thankful I just found this group. It's like a weight lifted! I feel like an outcast 3rd grader on the main forum. I never ask questions because I know the thread will take an ugly turn.

Yeah, the main forums have gotten horrible, especially to Paleo folk. I'm probably going to start and keep reporting some of the worst offenders until MFP decides to do something about it.

What saddens me is the double-standards those people have. Not only do the vegans not get nearly the vitriol we get, but the people being the worst always tout "there's not need to do X unless you have a medical condition," yet they still attack the people who start with "my doctor recommended I do X."

(On a side note, I have to really crack up at the people who are like "I tried Paleo, but I got bored with the lack of selection." It takes almost everything in me to keep from telling them that if they're getting bored, then they're doing it wrong! :laugh: )

If you really want to see the fur fly, say "gluten intolerance" on the main forums. It's like the old skit 'Niagara'... "slowly I turned, step by step, inch by inch... " :bigsmile:

I quickly learned that there is no place for me outside of a paleo forum as well (unless I lie or become mute). The saying to each their own is lost to all. I even quit logging my food diary (which I was only doing for my own info) as I was tired of the "hateful" opinions of others about what I do or do not put into my body....even though I think my body speaks loudly for itself on the healthiness of it all. I have had people say that I am actually abusing my children because of our paleo lifestyle as they send their kiddies off to school with soda and Twinkies....smh....I have a gluten intolerance and two others in my family have dairy intolerance and it goes way beyond gas and bloating when we accidentally eat something, but hey what would I know about my own body....smh

While we are on the "why?" subject, I have always wondered why vegan diets are perfectly acceptable but paleo/primal ones aren't!

I mean we omit grains (but not all carbs) they omit (all) animal products and no-one tells them off!

While we are on the "why?" subject, I have always wondered why vegan diets are perfectly acceptable but paleo/primal ones aren't!

I mean we omit grains (but not all carbs) they omit (all) animal products and no-one tells them off!

Not to defend vegans, but they do get ridiculed too. Unfortunately, they also don't know the difference between ridicule and a valid argument so I don't dare post on any topics to do with vegan diets (even though I'm trying to save lives!). I've been reported and reprimanded for comments that in NO way violate site rules, but whatever.

However, the moderators here don't tolerate any nonsense in the vegan threads (and I'm pretty sure many vegans are trigger happy with the "report" button) like they do in Paleo topics. Paleo bashing is completely acceptable for some reason.

Thanks for all the great posts above. Almost made me cry.

I agree with Nutmeg that most people who "tried" Paleo and found it too "hard" are usually just lazy and gave up far too quickly. Yes, it takes some thought, effort, and for some of us, learning new skills. However, our ancestors spent most of their lives focused on getting and preparing food. It's normal! Working in office jobs, commuting, then plopping our butts in front of the television (to watch cooking shows!) is NOT normal. Maybe that's the new normal, but eating healthy food or not is still a matter of CHOICE.

Paleo can be as easy or complicated as one chooses. My favourite meal above all is rare steak, fried mushrooms, and tossed salad. Hard or time consuming to make? Not.

I'm so sick of the mental disconnect that food quality can possibly affect health. It's just so damn illogical.

^^^^Yes yes yes!!!!!!

What good in life doesn't need some effort?

While we are on the "why?" subject, I have always wondered why vegan diets are perfectly acceptable but paleo/primal ones aren't!

I mean we omit grains (but not all carbs) they omit (all) animal products and no-one tells them off!

Not to defend vegans, but they do get ridiculed too. Unfortunately, they also don't know the difference between ridicule and a valid argument so I don't dare post on any topics to do with vegan diets (even though I'm trying to save lives!). I've been reported and reprimanded for comments that in NO way violate site rules, but whatever.

However, the moderators here don't tolerate any nonsense in the vegan threads (and I'm pretty sure many vegans are trigger happy with the "report" button) like they do in Paleo topics. Paleo bashing is completely acceptable for some reason.

From what I've seen, it's far less rampant against the vegans than it is against the Paleos. I've seen more than a few "hey, I'm vegan and looking for vegan friends!" type of posts that go completely untouched by the trolls, but do the same with Paleo and for every "hey, I'm Paleo, too!" there's a page's worth of trolling.

It's a completely different matter when someone makes the claim that vegan is inherently healthier or that everyone should be vegan or whatever. Those deserve it, though, as even most sane vegans will tell you that it's not inherently healthier and making it healthy takes a lot of work (but they don't do it for the health).

I think that's what also contributes to the differences between the vegan threads and the paleo threads -- you can't really argue against ethical decisions (regardless of how misguided they may be). It's a lot easier to rail against something that claims scientific backing, since there's a study out there to support every viewpoint.

It also doesn't help that Paleo's focus is on health and it gets results (if for no other reason than because it focuses on high quality, whole foods). I think most people here have to admit that if they told their pre-Paleo selves that their laundry list of ailments that had been repeatedly dismissed by doctors for one reason or another would be cured or at least put into heavy remission solely by following the principles of a particular diet, it would sound too good to be true (and "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"), and far-fetched, at best. The insane-sounding results, combined with the fact that said results aren't totally unique to Paleo (just about any whole foods based diet, including vegetarianism and a whole-foods approach to IIFYM can make largely the same health improvement claims, because it's the whole foods that contribute largely to it, everything else is just implementation details), doesn't help matters.

One of the things that bugs me, too, is the idea that the only way to achieve a caloric deficit is to count calories. I don't think most people argue that you have to input less energy than you output to lose weight, but the general forums don't seem to get that you don't have to count calories in order to achieve that. Then, of course, there's the whole double-standard that Paleo is "extreme," "unsustainable," "leads to eating disorders," and whatever, but weighing every morsel you put into your mouth and obsessively logging every single thing is healthy for everyone.

This is definitely my favorite place to be on MFP.