Why?
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From what I've seen, it's far less rampant against the vegans than it is against the Paleos. I've seen more than a few "hey, I'm vegan and looking for vegan friends!" type of posts that go completely untouched by the trolls, but do the same with Paleo and for every "hey, I'm Paleo, too!" there's a page's worth of trolling.
The reason for THAT is actually pretty simple...
Veganism has been touted since the '60s countercultural revolution, and by now it has become a 'respectable' option - mostly because it has been on the edges of the collective consciousness for the last 50 years. I can remember when I first tried veganism in the late 60s - the scorn and ridicule was every bit as intense as anything paleo/primal has to put up with.
Paleo/primal, OTOH, has only been in the mainstream perception for the last 5-10 years (I know it has been around longer). The reaction to it is pretty much what the response to veganism was in the '70s.
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When you consider that paleo/primal takes dead aim at the main food addictions of the 20th century - you know how addicts respond when you try to pull the monkey off their back.
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Any time you post anything about eliminating certain foods from your diet people accuse you of having an eating disorder, being a food snob, or the IIFYMer's say that's the only way to lose weight. In the forums people totally forget about seeking overall health and wellbeing along with weight loss. I tried posting recently a few places about eliminating added sugar from my diet and people went crazy. It was like I told them to kill thier children or something!0
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From what I've seen, it's far less rampant against the vegans than it is against the Paleos. I've seen more than a few "hey, I'm vegan and looking for vegan friends!" type of posts that go completely untouched by the trolls, but do the same with Paleo and for every "hey, I'm Paleo, too!" there's a page's worth of trolling.
The reason for THAT is actually pretty simple...
Veganism has been touted since the '60s countercultural revolution, and by now it has become a 'respectable' option - mostly because it has been on the edges of the collective consciousness for the last 50 years. I can remember when I first tried veganism in the late 60s - the scorn and ridicule was every bit as intense as anything paleo/primal has to put up with.
Paleo/primal, OTOH, has only been in the mainstream perception for the last 5-10 years (I know it has been around longer). The reaction to it is pretty much what the response to veganism was in the '70s.
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When you consider that paleo/primal takes dead aim at the main food addictions of the 20th century - you know how addicts respond when you try to pull the monkey off their back.
I so agree with this. I was vegan for most of the time that I've been on MFP. When I started researching more about moving to a whole foods diet and the benefits of traditional style eating paleo began to make more sense. I'm still not totally paleo but am leaning more that way and want to know more. I found great support in the forums as a vegan but paleo, forget it!0 -
From what I've seen, it's far less rampant against the vegans than it is against the Paleos. I've seen more than a few "hey, I'm vegan and looking for vegan friends!" type of posts that go completely untouched by the trolls, but do the same with Paleo and for every "hey, I'm Paleo, too!" there's a page's worth of trolling.
The reason for THAT is actually pretty simple...
Veganism has been touted since the '60s countercultural revolution, and by now it has become a 'respectable' option - mostly because it has been on the edges of the collective consciousness for the last 50 years. I can remember when I first tried veganism in the late 60s - the scorn and ridicule was every bit as intense as anything paleo/primal has to put up with.
Paleo/primal, OTOH, has only been in the mainstream perception for the last 5-10 years (I know it has been around longer). The reaction to it is pretty much what the response to veganism was in the '70s.
----
When you consider that paleo/primal takes dead aim at the main food addictions of the 20th century - you know how addicts respond when you try to pull the monkey off their back.
Indeed. There hasn't been enough time for it to sink into the public's subconscious. The nature of the Internet and the Greater Internet F*ckwad Theory don't help matters, but being "new" certainly plays a large part in the vitriol.0 -
From what I've seen, it's far less rampant against the vegans than it is against the Paleos. I've seen more than a few "hey, I'm vegan and looking for vegan friends!" type of posts that go completely untouched by the trolls, but do the same with Paleo and for every "hey, I'm Paleo, too!" there's a page's worth of trolling.
The reason for THAT is actually pretty simple...
Veganism has been touted since the '60s countercultural revolution, and by now it has become a 'respectable' option - mostly because it has been on the edges of the collective consciousness for the last 50 years. I can remember when I first tried veganism in the late 60s - the scorn and ridicule was every bit as intense as anything paleo/primal has to put up with.
Paleo/primal, OTOH, has only been in the mainstream perception for the last 5-10 years (I know it has been around longer). The reaction to it is pretty much what the response to veganism was in the '70s.
----
When you consider that paleo/primal takes dead aim at the main food addictions of the 20th century - you know how addicts respond when you try to pull the monkey off their back.
Indeed. There hasn't been enough time for it to sink into the public's subconscious. The nature of the Internet and the Greater Internet F*ckwad Theory don't help matters, but being "new" certainly plays a large part in the vitriol.
While I totally agree with the above, it makes me giggle to think of a Paleo lifestyle as "new". Eating whole foods as provided by nature (I know our whole foods are different these days than what my ancestors were eating) is the oldest human diet around. However, the way the label is sometimes used definitely causes confusion. We are going to see more and more processed foods coming out labelled "Paleo" as a marketing strategy. Everybody seems to be picking apart the stupid little details instead of grasping the simplicity of the Paleo concept as a whole.0 -
While I totally agree with the above, it makes me giggle to think of a Paleo lifestyle as "new". Eating whole foods as provided by nature (I know our whole foods are different these days than what my ancestors were eating) is the oldest human diet around. However, the was the label is sometimes used definitely causes confusion. We are going to see more and more processed foods coming out labelled "Paleo" as a marketing strategy. Everybody seems to be picking apart the stupid little details instead of grasping the simplicity of the Paleo concept as a whole.
Yep. I really think we need a new name for it, if for no other reason than to find one better embodies the whole foods, non-processed aspect of it (though I wish we didn't need it, because we didn't used to need it, it was just how people ate). That's actually why I generally refer to the family of ways of eating currently known as "Paleo" more as "whole foods based diets" or something similar. I've found it helps avoid attracting Paleo-bashers and keeps the focus on the primary part that matters -- whole foods.
And yeah, it is funny that it's often seen as a "new" thing, when it's the oldest way of eating for our species. Unfortunately, we as a species have systematically removed ourselves from our natural roots, so "how people eat" is no longer even remotely in line with what Paleo is trying to get back to and how most of us as a species used to eat.0 -
I feel a little late to this party but this morning I saw Nutmeg's post and the swarm of magpies that were attacking. Honestly those guys have nothing to offer anyone, not a civil bone in their bodies and no game in their arguments. They just like to hear themselves talk.0
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I don't agree that everyone should agree with everyone's choice of diet/lifestyle. Some people aren't going to agree with the Paleo/Primal way and that's absolutely fine, but when they go beyond constructive criticism and ridicule other people it's a sure sign of their own insecurities.
There is no point engaging with this type of person, they offer nothing but negativity in a place that is meant to help & inspire people.0 -
It's also astounding how little the people actually know about the premises of Paleo. Most of the ridicule is based off of what essentially amounts to rumors and "my cousin's father-in-law's uncle's grandson's wife's mom tried it once, and she explained to her who said to him, who told me that..." type of thing.
Their strawmen are being built on strawmen so much they have strawmen totem poles now.
:noway: :grumble:0 -
What boggles my mind is the fact that people quote "IIFYM" as a reason to eat junk. Take a step back and think about who sets your macros?!? The Pope? George Clooney??
No- you do! It's the ultimate cop-out. You set your own macros to be whatever you want it to be, so of course you can find a way to finagle pizza and pop in to it. To me saying, "whatever, IIFYM" is like saying that you aren't a free-thinking being who has the option to make decisions and set your macros to a ratio that won't give you diabetes.
Technically cigarettes fit in to my macros, that doesn't mean I shouldn't do my research, find out how they affect my health and make an educated decision on whether or not cigarettes are fit for consumption (even if they don't really affect my protein, carb or fat intake each day)
*Sigh*0 -
What boggles my mind is the fact that people quote "IIFYM" as a reason to eat junk. Take a step back and think about who sets your macros?!? The Pope? George Clooney??
No- you do! It's the ultimate cop-out. You set your own macros to be whatever you want it to be, so of course you can find a way to finagle pizza and pop in to it. To me saying, "whatever, IIFYM" is like saying that you aren't a free-thinking being who has the option to make decisions and set your macros to a ratio that won't give you diabetes.
Technically cigarettes fit in to my macros, that doesn't mean I shouldn't do my research, find out how they affect my health and make an educated decision on whether or not cigarettes are fit for consumption (even if they don't really affect my protein, carb or fat intake each day)
*Sigh*
Totally agree except on one point... it is soda, not pop. Make sure to keep that in mind for the future.
:laugh:
I am reading another thread in which people are extolling the virtues of protein powder and I just want to shout out that if you're eating properly then there are no need for supplements, but I know it would fall on deaf ears.
The people who are super critical of paleo remind me of the people who are super critical of CrossFit. Since I do both I must be a terrible idiot.0 -
What boggles my mind is the fact that people quote "IIFYM" as a reason to eat junk. Take a step back and think about who sets your macros?!? The Pope? George Clooney??
No- you do! It's the ultimate cop-out. You set your own macros to be whatever you want it to be, so of course you can find a way to finagle pizza and pop in to it. To me saying, "whatever, IIFYM" is like saying that you aren't a free-thinking being who has the option to make decisions and set your macros to a ratio that won't give you diabetes.
Technically cigarettes fit in to my macros, that doesn't mean I shouldn't do my research, find out how they affect my health and make an educated decision on whether or not cigarettes are fit for consumption (even if they don't really affect my protein, carb or fat intake each day)
*Sigh*
Totally agree except on one point... it is soda, not pop. Make sure to keep that in mind for the future. :laugh:
Ha ha!
Can you hear my Canadian accent? :laugh:0 -
What boggles my mind is the fact that people quote "IIFYM" as a reason to eat junk. Take a step back and think about who sets your macros?!? The Pope? George Clooney??
No- you do! It's the ultimate cop-out. You set your own macros to be whatever you want it to be, so of course you can find a way to finagle pizza and pop in to it. To me saying, "whatever, IIFYM" is like saying that you aren't a free-thinking being who has the option to make decisions and set your macros to a ratio that won't give you diabetes.
Technically cigarettes fit in to my macros, that doesn't mean I shouldn't do my research, find out how they affect my health and make an educated decision on whether or not cigarettes are fit for consumption (even if they don't really affect my protein, carb or fat intake each day)
*Sigh*
Totally agree except on one point... it is soda, not pop. Make sure to keep that in mind for the future. :laugh:
Ha ha!
Can you hear my Canadian accent? :laugh:
You forgot the "eh"0 -
While I totally agree with the above, it makes me giggle to think of a Paleo lifestyle as "new". Eating whole foods as provided by nature (I know our whole foods are different these days than what my ancestors were eating) is the oldest human diet around. However, the was the label is sometimes used definitely causes confusion. We are going to see more and more processed foods coming out labelled "Paleo" as a marketing strategy. Everybody seems to be picking apart the stupid little details instead of grasping the simplicity of the Paleo concept as a whole.
Yep. I really think we need a new name for it, if for no other reason than to find one better embodies the whole foods, non-processed aspect of it (though I wish we didn't need it, because we didn't used to need it, it was just how people ate). That's actually why I generally refer to the family of ways of eating currently known as "Paleo" more as "whole foods based diets" or something similar. I've found it helps avoid attracting Paleo-bashers and keeps the focus on the primary part that matters -- whole foods.
And yeah, it is funny that it's often seen as a "new" thing, when it's the oldest way of eating for our species. Unfortunately, we as a species have systematically removed ourselves from our natural roots, so "how people eat" is no longer even remotely in line with what Paleo is trying to get back to and how most of us as a species used to eat.
Although, for me, "paleo" has worked as a kind of short-hand. Maybe you'd call it a recognition sign, like a club's secret handshake or code word. I'll be filling my cart at the grocery, and someone will look at what I have, raise an eyebrow, and say, "Paleo?" (I'm usually too focused on remembering my shopping list to be looking at other people's carts, but for some reason other people look at mine...) And then we fall to discussing what a difference this lifestyle has made in curing or at least helping various ills, and what our favorite recipes might be, etc. Or the butcher at our local whole foods store (not Whole Foods but another similar chain) will see me standing and waiting for service and call out, "Hey, how's the Paleo going?" and someone passing by will stop and say, "Paleo? I've been doing paleo too for the past xx months and..."
p.s. I ate a "whole foods" diet back in college and in the years immediately following college. Anyone here remember "Diet for a Small Planet"? I was able to keep my weight under control through a combination of "whole food" (I ate brown rice instead of white, bought everything I could "organic", even baked my own whole-grain bread, and I was working full time and going to school at night), running six miles a day, and bulimia. I may have been somewhat healthier than I would have been, eating pre-packaged junk, but I still struggled to maintain my weight -- and it was critical for my job at the time (the military has weight standards, and you really don't want to be over the limit...). The vegetarian "Diet for a Small Planet" whole-foods approach just wasn't quite the whole-foods approach that my body needed.
p.p.s. Isn't it funny that some paleo gurus are saying that white rice is healthier than brown rice, if you *do* eat rice? Something to do with the phytates, I think.0 -
Agree with everyone who commented Paleo needs a new name. So many people get caught up with "what a caveman would eat" that they don't see the bigger picture. I recently went to some friends house for the day (including bbq picnic and campfire). I had no worries whatsoever about going. They apologized that the grilled pork wasn't grassfed, but then offered me chocolate and smores. HUH??? I was happily fed that day with grilled pork, veggies, and the bowl of organic mixed fruit I brought. I was more happy with the stars than the smores and the company than the food. But the misconceptions were huge. Just a short list:
1. You shouldn't eat meat if it isn't grassfed.
2. Chocolate and grains are fine though.
3. Alcohol is healthy.
4. You shouldn't eat tropical fruits like papaya because cavemen wouldn't have those.
5. It's too expensive to buy fruits and vegetables. (See my thread on Is Paleo Expensive?)
6. It's just too restrictive.0 -
Am really sad. Just looked at the "Introduce Yourself" threads and saw people seriously discussing gastric sleeves (including some scheduled for surgery and scared, but not able to lose weight any other way they've tried), and someone getting jumped on for discussing something called the Fat Fast which seems to be an introduction to Atkins. While "Fat Fast" sounds like a fad diet (rigid rules: 1000 calories a day, 200-cal meals, 90% fat), it still sounds way healthier to me than surgical intervention.
Sorry if I sound judgmental. I remember those days, feeling like nothing worked and willing to try almost anything to lose weight.
Anyhow, I do lurk in the other boards sometimes (usually the "Success Stories" because the photos are inspiring), but for the most part I hang out here.0 -
I tend to be fairly quiet overall, but this is the board I look to for inspiration and ideas. I'm doing the AI protocol, and I swear I'm eating more vegetables than I ever did as a vegetarian. I think that's another misconception about Paleo--that it's all meat 24/7. When I was vegetarian I ate a lot of wheat and rice (and, well, cookies . . .
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I tend to be fairly quiet overall, but this is the board I look to for inspiration and ideas. I'm doing the AI protocol, and I swear I'm eating more vegetables than I ever did as a vegetarian. I think that's another misconception about Paleo--that it's all meat 24/7. When I was vegetarian I ate a lot of wheat and rice (and, well, cookies . . .
You're right! That was an early misconception I had. I'm eating way more veggies than I did. Even when I was a vegetarian (and when I wasn't), I was filling up on grains...0 -
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Why?!?! WHy did I go read that thread. It makes my brain hurt.0
