peabean26 wrote: »

I'm right there with you! I've been doing keto for 6 weeks or so, and I've lost ~3lbs. Not what I was hoping for at all! I actually like doing keto, it's not that hard but damn I was hoping for better results. I know I'm in ketosis because I use the ketosticks everyday, although I'm not in deep ketosis. I bike 30 minutes a day (work commute) and have started lifting 2 days a week. Still...nothing!!!

I don't know what else to do. I have PCOS, so losing weight is really hard for me, but this is seriously ridiculous. I don't think with the amount of exercise I do that I can really drop much lower calorie wise (~1600/day). I've done egg fasts, where I lose a pound or two, then gain it back when i eat normal food again.

I guess all I can say is at least I'm not gaining weight, which is what I usually do at this time of year.

BC & PB;

I'm on day 3 of the "egg fast" (mostly as an experiment) - so far, so good, but not "spectacular".

Others have reported good results, especially as a plateau "buster", so it's worth a try.

I don't really consider it a "fast" in the true sense of that word (too many cals) but would like to demonstrate that, at least in my case, it is (or is not) useful for those hitting plateaus.

I've used the 5:2 fast in the past and had good results. I believe it's a combination of just cutting total cal intake (5 days at "normal" intake, 2 days at 4-600) AND the benefits of actual extended "fasting" (many of which are, BTW, keto related). So that's another possibility you might consider.

The more I learn about NK/Fat Adaption though, I suggest you each take a harder look at your actual levels of BOHB, Total Carbs (not net), AND Proteins - adjust as you need to and determine your actual "tolerance" levels for each.

In many cases, small changes CAN make a BIG difference in fat adaption and thereby, weight loss.

AFTER one is fully fat adapted, resistance exercises (weights) can make a difference (positively) - cardio, not so much (although it IS beneficial in other areas).

Regardless of weight loss (although I know how important that is to most of us) - celebrate the health benefits and improvements you've made by going LCHF.

They'll be there LONG after the weight loss remains an issue - they'll be there for LIFE.

peabean26 wrote: »

Thanks Deansdad for the helpful ideas. I've contemplated 5:2 in the past, but I'm nervous because I suffer from migraines. Sometimes when I go a long time without eating I get a migraine, which makes me concerned that fasting could trigger them. That said, I will see if I can make it work for 1 day a week and see how I do.

Can you explain what BOHB is? By looking at proteins, do you mean lowering protein intake and exchanging it for fat?

PB;

Sorry, I missed responding to your questions directly, so here goes;
BOHB/B-hyroxibutirate is the ketone body existing in the blood that triggers the primary energy transport mechanism involved in NK/FA.
It's the only (and most important) measurement we can accurately (digitally) track to actually "know" what the level is (ideally 1.0 - 3.0) and whether or not we are actually "in" NK and Fat Adapted - ALL the others (styx & breath) are, at best, "guesses".

When BOHB levels rise to the levels of "true" fat adaptation, Acetoacetate levels (those measured in urine by styx) typically fall which means that those hoping against hope for the vaunted "purple" are not only kidding themselves ("I'm IN!") but likely at LOWER k levels (since the reduction SHOULD display as a much lighter shade, if any at all).
It's for this reason (among others) that I and others consider them essentially worthless (with some exceptions), especially after the very beginning stages of adaptation.

To the 5:2 (or other "true" fasting modes) and your migraines.
As I'm sure you know, there are any number of "triggers" that set off the migraines and they vary widely from person to person.
Fasting is indeed one (possibility, but not a certainty) - as are various foods (including cheese which is a "normal" component of a LCHF diet for most).
So too, are carbs.

Much like the macro %'s (and composition of each macro) vary significantly from individual to individual, so too do your specific triggers.

Problem is, when switching to LCHF you made a number of fairly "radical" changes in your diet - all at once, and as you make changes in the macros those changes continue albeit at a slower rate. That's not a bad thing but it does make "tracking down" the culprit much more difficult since every (even minor) change has an impact on many others.

I wouldn't even attempt to try and divine "which" or what effect (broke my crystal ball), but would suggest that the only person that can figure it out is you and that the only way (unless you get really lucky) to do it is eliminate one thing at a time and see what effect that has. Likewise, it's entirely possible that the changes you've already made "might" "fix" a problem that existed before (migraines triggered by not eating e.g.). Eliminating carbs (for example) "might" have eliminated the problem (trigger) - or, it "might not" have.
Only one way to know for sure - sorry, wish I had a better solution.

On the protein question - yes, I meant "lowering protein intake and exchanging it for fat?"

Much like the migraine issue, carbs, proteins, and insulin all have "sensitivity" and "resistance" levels which have a direct impact on one's ability to produce sufficient BOHB levels to attain (and maintain) NK/FA.

The "bad" news is that each must be measured and adjusted individually.

The "good" news is that it's fairly easy to do with simple "in home" tests.
The other good news is that when folks are not receiving the benefits they expect (weight loss in this case), it often takes only minor changes in a specific macro to "fix" what isn't working.

One can do that "hit or miss" (change one macro %, give it a couple weeks and observe the effect) or in a more controlled fashion. (Blood test BOHB level, change one macro, observe the result in k-count).

Specifically on protein, I believe that MOST people set target levels too high (not their "faults" it's what the calculators tell them to do by default). 0.5-0.6g/#LBM is a good place to start (IMO) and will more than adequately meet the RDA (for most). From there, one can adjust if necessary (by checking BOHB numbers).

Finally, given that you are PCOS, insulin resistance and glucose levels are not just "nice to know" numbers (as they might be for someone without PCOS) - they are "critical" to know, for you.

My advice would be similar to that of BC's situation.
For now, focus on measuring and logging your BG levels DAILY (yes, that means "sticking" but trust me (a true "scaredi-cat" when it comes to needles) - it's really not that bad and it could very well keep you from ever having to face the big "I" needle.

If nothing else, your log will provide a wealth of info that either you, can "interpret" and see what to do, or if not you, your doc for sure should be able to.

Down the road when you're an "old hand" at using the meter, get the strips to measure BOHB and use the results to determine your actual carb and protein "resistance" levels and you'll know for sure how to "fix" the currently, less than satisfactory weight loss rate issue.

If you are interested in considering the "egg fast" thing, have a look here. (I just finished a 3 day "experiment" with it and the results are in this thread.

community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10021626/breaking-news-egg-fast-diet-test-results

lulalacroix wrote: »

I have pcos as well. For about three weeks I wasn't really losing any weight. I adjusted the amount of carbs I eat now to 10 or under for most days. Now I am losing 1-2 pounds per week. So at 20 net carbs I was losing super slowly and 10 total carbs I'm back on a good losing streak. Sometimes just tweaking some of the macros can make a difference.

Lulu;

EXACTLY - on both counts!

Those of you with PCOS have an extra mountain to climb (IR) but in "every" case the "net carbs" issue is one that really shouldn't even exist, just leads to confusion, a false sense of security, and ultimately, a negative impression of what LCHF is capable of.

The (pseudo) "science" it is based on has pretty much been debunked and it has been exposed as the marketing "gimmick" it really is - stick with Total.

And yes, "tweaking" the macros (sometimes only a small amount) CAN make all the difference in the world.

Some get "lucky" and the generalizations work for them - others have to do the work to actually find the specific carb and protein numbers at which BOHB levels can be maintained at optimum levels.

Carb and Protein "tolerance" numbers are a real (and very important) thing.

They vary greatly from person to person and either (or both) CAN prevent an individual from becoming fat adapted if they are exceeded - regardless of what the "styx" show (or how bad one's breath is).

BansheeCat wrote: »

@lula
<snipped>

@deandad
Even with the type of macros I have, my calorie restriction alone should be producing better results with weightloss. It's expensive but Im going to get the TDEE breath test to accurately find out how much energy my body is burning. It's worth 150bucks. If it's substantially lower than the norm that's an indicator of an under-treated condition. BTW...I'm still on the blood meter hunt. So far no luck.

<snipped>
This is the first time I've ever fasted because I believe similar as you do and I hated it lol. Hopefully through the suffering I've jumpstarted my metabolic expenditure--only time will tell.

BC;

I'm not familiar with "THE" TDEE breath test (unless you are referring to a VO2 Max test) and the googlemachine appears equally "stumped" returning results that range from an online "lab" that one mails a test tube full of breath, to something called the BodPod your local gym apparently sells.

Anyway, as you know I'm all about testing - as long as it's based on "science" and not Dr ("wizard of") Oz - endorsed.

VO2 certainly meets that standard and while I'm not sure it will actually provide you the test results you really need, what I "think" doesn't matter. What you do - DOES.

In any case, it's your money, time, and effort and if you are willing to "share" the results I, (as I'm sure others) would be very appreciative of your contribution to the "greater good".

In one way I would love to be proven wrong, and certainly you have much better info to go on, but I remain convinced (so far, at least) that you'll find the answer in one (or more) of these - Total (not net) carbs (both level and adherence), "exercise cals" added back and raising C&P targets, BG and IR levels.

It's entirely possible that an incorrect TDEE level is resulting in an incorrect cal in target (actually more "probable" than "possible") but like others, I believe that if that is the case, once you become fat adapted it should "take care of itself" (satiety restricting cals).
So, while I think you remain convinced that you are "in" ketosis (and should be reaping the benefits), I'm equally convinced that you "might" not be.
I think you are probably "close" but bouncing back and forth (for the reasons above) and your metabolism is just not sure which way to go (figuratively speaking <g>).

I do understand your thinking on "true" TDEE and how it affects an under treatment (didn't know that) - makes sense though and doing the test certainly can't hurt and it "might" eliminate one variable, or confirm your suspicion - either of which would be a positive step in the right direction and help you chart your course.

On the meters, the Abbott Xtra might be difficult to locate locally at retail.
It's only "rumor" afaik, but there's talk that they are actually pulling out of the retail market and sending all production and retail sales to Walmart in the ReliON Ultima.

The RU is an "exact' clone of the Xtra as far as anyone can tell so far, so the rumor does seem to make some sense and that might be why it's becoming difficult to find at some retail locations.

Since it's the top of the line model (but still only a couple bucks more than the others) our WM seems to allow stock to run out on occasion but they can/do restock (especially if you ask or do the "ship to store" thing online.

As I think I told you, the "free" meter on the Abbott website only took 5 or 6 days to reach me.

Pulling for your success and confident you'll get there.

What's your workout like? I wasn't losing like I wanted to and kicked my workouts into high gear and managed to lose a pound a day. I also stopped using any low cal sweeteners. Im not sure if that's something you use a lot of but if you do maybe try cutting that out? I just have to keep reminding myself any loss is better than nothing and to not stress about the timing of the weight loss. Stress can stall it as well.

BansheeCat, I looked at your last three days in your diary, you have the most perfect keto log I have ever seen! Are you losing any this week?

Dan the Man from I-Wish-My-Diary-Looked-As-Good-as-Yours Land

This is a thick thread to read. I just wanted to toss in my $0.02 - I did a fat fast to break a stall and after two weeks had no change at all.

I ended up having to drop my BMR calories by 200 in MFP, I guess I'd just gotten too small and it was time to recalculate. Not a bad problem to have, overall, but not what I was hoping for

lulalacroix wrote: »

I have pcos as well. For about three weeks I wasn't really losing any weight. I adjusted the amount of carbs I eat now to 10 or under for most days. Now I am losing 1-2 pounds per week. So at 20 net carbs I was losing super slowly and 10 total carbs I'm back on a good losing streak. Sometimes just tweaking some of the macros can make a difference.

^^ This is interesting to read, I perhaps may have had the same problem.

I need some help understanding these fasts. My only experience with fasts is from a religious standpoint and those usually mean you aren't eating anything. So when you guys talk about fat fasts or egg fasts... do you mean that is all or the majority of what you eat? How does that work? I may need to add some of you as friends so I can see your food diaries. I'm still losing weight but I don't think a fast will hurt. I just want to see what happens if I do it I guess.

I'm not doing so well today and I was kinda half into yesterday. I did really well last week but I just can't get it together this week. I do not want to eat. This is what happens to me all of the time. I'm tired of eating and chewing and food in general. Last night for dinner I had about 3 or 4 oz of leftover turkey and some water. Breaking the old habits is going to be extremely hard for me and I know this is what holds me back from success. I would rather not eat than eat. The crazy thing is that I KNOW I have to eat. I KNOW that the only way my body will burn all this fat is if I fuel it but there's something in me that would just rather not eat. It's exhausting on all levels from finding recipes to getting the ingredients, food prepping, and then eating what's been prepared. I hope I can get around this. I don't want to fail anymore.

Thanks, RockLobster4. This may sound silly but I never considered making my protein drink with heavy whipping cream. I add HWC to the almond and coconut milk.

I think this is one of those habits I need to break. It is so easy for me to slip into not eating when I'm only drinking the protein shakes. I really couldn't care less about eating most days.

I'm going to try this tonight. I really wanted a milkshake yesterday but I didn't get one because no one makes sugar free shakes. I think you also told me about the butter in coffee. Great suggestions. I'm going to add you as a friend if I haven't already.