Welcome! I'm about 3 months into a keto lifestyle and it was a learning curve for me. It takes some time to learn which foods have how much carbs. The best thing is to weigh, measure, and log everything.

Eating a bunch of fat can seem really strange at first. I have suffered from an eating disorder and can guarantee that it took me some time to even allow butter into my diet. To get enough fat, I cook in butter and bacon fat, I put butter or coconut oil in my coffee, I add butter to everything, hell I even eat plain butter when my fat macro is low for the day. You will adjust to this as the days go by.

Someone will probably come in and help you with your numbers. The members here are really helpful.

Not sure what a cyclical keto diet is... although I have heard of carb cycling.

DittoDan wrote: »

I also, am not sure what "cyclical Keto" is. I maintain a blog with Keto Terms and have read hundreds of hours online and a few books on Keto and never heard it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/wiki/index#wiki_skd.2C_tkd.2C_ckd_-_what.2C_when_and_how.3F

CKD is a legit thing but it is really only ideal for seriously high performing athlete/weightlifting types.

I've had to stop going to the gym for a few weeks to try to deal with a foot problem, but I had started doing TKD as mentioned in that same area of the ketogains thread. With TKD though I'm back in ketosis immediately, despite eating 15-25g of dextrose before I work out. As a diabetic, I would never screw with CKD myself, so I haven't researched it past that FAQ.

DittoDan wrote: »

If you do 5 days of a lo carb diet, and then go off the diet on the weekends, your body will never adapt.

Not necessarily true. I would speculate that you probably adapt quicker using a pure ketogenic approach for one or two months, but after that the machinery your cells developed will not be destroyed by eating carbs occasionally. Read Lyle McDonald's book about the cyclical ketogenic diet if you want to know more ... whether this approach works may also vary from person to person, from my own experience I can say that I have no problems re-introducing carbs occasionally and then getting into ketosis again in a matter of a few days. Peter Attia also wrote something to that effect.

Since no one answered, I'll tackle the math part. Sorry in advance if it gets a little overwhelming.

So, how do we come up with the numbers we use? Let's look at each of the macros individually.

Carbs -- In order to reduce your dependency on carbs as a fuel source and to use fat as the primary source, carbs should be under 100g. In order to be fully in ketosis, this usually needs to be no more than 50g, and for some people (or people starting out), even as low as 20g. The exact number recommendations vary by source, as does whether to use total carbs or net carbs (total carbs minus fiber and sugar alcohols). The brain needs about 120g of glucose (and/or the equivalent in combination with ketones) to run, so by reducing the amount of dietary carbs below that, you prompt the body to increase the percentage of that fuel from ketones (especially after you burn through your glycogen stores). The lower you go, the less sugar your body has to work with and the more efficient it becomes at using ketones for both brain and body functioning (the rest of the body can run entirely on fat and/or ketones, so all glucose is reserved for the brain).

Protein -- Protein is the building block macro. You need a certain amount of it to maintain or build lean mass (namely, muscle). However, like carbohydrates, protein produces an insulin response in the body. Additionally, when protein is consumed to the exclusion of fat and carbs (such as in low carb, low fat, high protein diets), the excess protein is converted to glucose to be used as fuel. Since ketones are regulated by insulin, as is glucose, both of these mechanisms can cause you to fall out of (or keep you from entering) ketosis if you eat too much protein. There's some debate about how much protein you need and which formula is most accurate, but I prefer the .5-1g/lb of lean body mass (LBM) as a guide and adjust from there based on needs. For women, I've found that 80-100g works out well as a starting point, unless you're really petite. It's a good average number that doesn't require you going out of your way to eat or avoid a protein source at each meal, which makes the transition, at least, a little easier. If you find yourself struggling to stay or get into ketosis, then lowering your protein intake can help.

Fat -- That leaves us with fat. Since we've already set our other macros, fat fills in the remainder. This looks like a scary number, at first, since it's often over 100g and can be upwards of 80-90% of one's calories. This isn't a bad thing when you're doing keto. Fat goes up, and is favored in keto, because it doesn't produce the insulin response that carbs and protein do, and it provides a fuel for the body that the body can run quite well on.

Another note about fats -- don't fear natural saturated fats. Coconut oil is your friend, as are butter and lard. Contrary to popular belief, saturated fats are not the fast lane to heart attack city (and have, in fact, been shown to improve the markers associated with CVD risk). So don't be afraid to include them. Monounsaturated fats are also good, so things like olive oil are good to have (fun fact - animal fats are ~40% monounsaturated fats). As for polyunsaturated fats, avoid the seed oils, which are generally rancid before they hit the shelves (polyunsaturated fats are very heat sensitive, and they go through a lot of processing that pretty much destroys them), and favor cold pressed oils if you choose to use them at all (I personally just stay away from them, as animal fats generally have some and are closer to the amounts and ratios we actually need). The only fat you really need to avoid are artificial trans fats -- i.e. hydrogenated oils. These are the ones that have actually been proven to cause all sorts of health issues (and are also the ones that have dragged natural saturated fats with them, because so many studies lump them together and treat them as the same, when they are anything but).

So, how do you get more fats in? Start by cooking everything in butter, coconut oil, lard, tallow, or any other fat of your choosing (favor fats with higher percentages of saturated fats for cooking, though, as they are more heat tolerant). Use a basic oil and vinegar (or just oil) for your salad dressing. Add mayo back to your burgers, wraps, and other "sandwich" stuff. Pair all protein and carb sources with a fat. Eat all the yolks when you eat eggs. Eat your berries with cream. Steak with butter (and don't trim the fat if you trust the source). So on and so forth.

Here's a sample of one of my better days:

5 eggs scrambled in about 2.5 tablespoons of butter, topped with about 2 tablespoons of cheese

Smoothie made with unsweetened almond milk, canned unsweetened coconut milk, heavy cream, almond butter, protein powder, spinach, cocoa powder, avocado, and vanilla extract

Cream cheese cloud (A sort of fat bomb. This particular batch was cream cheese, butter, and peanut butter, with few drops liquid stevia) and some baby carrots

BBQ shredded chicken made with a home made BBQ sauce that I then mixed in my homemade mayo (mayo - 1 egg, 1c olive oil, mustard, salt, 1-2 tbsp vinegar)

Now, the above (at the portions I consumed) works out to around 2000 calories, 50g carbs, 200g fat, and 80g protein, since that's where I'm currently at, but can give you an idea of some of the foods you can eat and how to increase your calorie and fat intake (sorry, you can't increase fats without increasing calories unless you're decreasing intake of something else).

Hope this helps!

MikeEnRegalia wrote: »

DittoDan wrote: »

If you do 5 days of a lo carb diet, and then go off the diet on the weekends, your body will never adapt.

Not necessarily true. I would speculate that you probably adapt quicker using a pure ketogenic approach for one or two months, but after that the machinery your cells developed will not be destroyed by eating carbs occasionally. Read Lyle McDonald's book about the cyclical ketogenic diet if you want to know more ... whether this approach works may also vary from person to person, from my own experience I can say that I have no problems re-introducing carbs occasionally and then getting into ketosis again in a matter of a few days. Peter Attia also wrote something to that effect.

Hi Mike, I just read the article Radiii posted above. Theoretically you are probably right, but practically and in the context of this newbie to Keto, it would be very difficult for her to manage CKD when she barely knows how to do a standard Keto diet. She must "walk" before she can "run" (no pun intended.)

Dan the Man from Michigan

TheTrophyWife wrote: »

DittoDan, I totally agree. CKD is going to have to be the end game. There is so much to learn just about keto.

What do you guys do when you get sick? I feel like I'm coming down with a cold and I would really love some chili (I don't eat soup) but that's going to totally wreck my numbers. They're already wrecked because I didn't have a full lunch. I don't want to ruin what little progress I've made.

If you want chili - make chili: This is one of my favorites:
-
- http://www.ruled.me/40-minute-keto-chili/

OP: Take a look at some of our diaries to see where we get out fats and keep our carbs low. I find it really helpful to see the way other people do it. Mine is open. Feel free.

volfan22 wrote: »

TheTrophyWife wrote: »

DittoDan, I totally agree. CKD is going to have to be the end game. There is so much to learn just about keto.

What do you guys do when you get sick? I feel like I'm coming down with a cold and I would really love some chili (I don't eat soup) but that's going to totally wreck my numbers. They're already wrecked because I didn't have a full lunch. I don't want to ruin what little progress I've made.

If you want chili - make chili: This is one of my favorites:
-
- http://www.ruled.me/40-minute-keto-chili/

WOW! That looks good! I want to try it after Thanksgiving....

Thanks for posting..

Dan the Man from Chili Land

Drink hot chicken broth!

dldoddy wrote: »

OP: Take a look at some of our diaries to see where we get out fats and keep our carbs low. I find it really helpful to see the way other people do it. Mine is open. Feel free.

Mine is also open.

TrophyWife - regarding the scale. I too have the SAME issue. Here's what I have done to help with that - I still weigh - but I don't really care what it says because for me this isn't a diet anymore - it's a full on lifestyle change. I have goals, and I'm working towards them - BUT - I dropped a fair amount of weight at first (and you will too) - but then it tapered off and I lose now about a pound per week. I also go 2-3 weeks at the same weight sometimes. I even gained 4 lbs last week and I didn't do anything different. BUT - I stay on plan. Take your measurements - you will find that even though the scale may not be moving much, you will be shrinking. I don't get how they don't directly correlate - but they just don't. I have gone from a size 16W to a 12 in 6 months. I have only lost 34 lbs though. I still have 35 more to go to be at my goal weight. Eat fat to lose fat - once you get into a habit of what you can eat and what you like you will find ways to make it work. Give it 6 weeks - you need to commit to it at least that long to truly begin to see the benefits. You're gonna feel like absolute crap in about 2 weeks (keto flu) - just increase your salt and ride it out. Once you come out of the flu you will feel truly amazing.

TheTrophyWife wrote: »

Thanks again. You guys really are great. The CavemanKeto site has some good info. I'm definitely going to do the net carbs while I learn.


Volfan, I'm already feeling like crap. I skipped going to my trainer because I didn't want to take a chance with making other people sick. I wish I had that option with work. I just keep to myself for the most part and everyone knows I'm sick so they're staying away. If it gets worse than this, I might need a drink. LOL!

You'll get through it. If you like Powerade - they make the zero version - drink a couple of those to get your electrolytes up.

TheTrophyWife wrote: »

I don't drink Powerade or any type of chemically laced beverages. My beverages these days are water, coffee, more water, 6 more cups of coffee, and as soon as I'm done with these meds I'm having a freaking margarita. I'm going to have to find another way to get my electrolytes.

Magnesium and potassium supplements are cheap. I just take them with my fish oil, probiotic and multivitamin daily, plus the B12 and Vitamin D the dr has me on, heh.