I wouldn't be surprised if your protein intake played a role. If I were you I'd consider getting that closer to the 160g mark and objectively observe whether or not you see a difference.

What rate are you losing weight at weekly?

FWIW... I was having similar experiences and started this thread.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10083430/proteins-role-in-recovery


Also, following along.

I am by no means an expert so can only speak for my own experience. There are many more experienced lifters and trainers who read and post here. I was following stronglifts with some additional cardio (although not 20 miles of running), dieting, and really struggling with muscle soreness and recovery. I found the following helped:

*making sure that I met my targets in both protein and carbs, I found that increasing my carbs had more of an effect that protein but it may be because I was getting enough protein anyway and my carbs were a little low.

*making sure I was really well hydrated. I thought I drank enough already but upped my water anyway and it helped.

*sleep - this made the biggest difference for me. At least 7 hours a night, more if possible.

*rest days - I need two days completely off a week, I do 6 workouts a week but do better doubling up on lifting and cardio one day rather than exercising 6 days a week. I guess everyone will be different but it might be something to play around with.

Ultimately though squatting three times a week whilst in a long term fairly aggressive calorie deficit was just unsustainable for me. I needed to make adjustments to my weight loss or workout performance expectations. So for example I reduced my deficit for the last few months of last year as strength gains were my priority (and actually changed my program as well because I think I'd reached my ceiling of stronglifts anyway). Since the new year I've increased my calorie deficit again and accept that I'll only get decent legs workouts in twice a week. Any more than that and I'm hobbling round like an old lady all week.

I hope you get it sorted, it drove me stir crazy for a while.

How intense and duration for the running?

Same as lifting, the intensity, duration, and frequency all play a part in what that cardio does to you. Is it an intense workout on it's own, or was it more of a recovery workout supporting the lifting?

Short and intense could be just as bad as easy and long duration. Both could be impairing recovery from a good lifting routine.
Then again 3 x weekly of active recovery HR zone (current fad name is fat-burning zone) jogging could help recovery, if not too long.

Then again, what starts to happen many times is you start going into the lifts with slightly tired muscles, you don't actually lift as heavy as your muscles really could do, and therefore it ends up not really being that good of a session, compared to what it could have been.
Then the recovery isn't needed as bad.

And since recovery is impaired in a diet anyway, well, that's the state you could reach.

So be thankful you haven't gotten to the place where it doesn't ache, but you don't make progress in either workout.
But you could be heading in that direction.

What's the ultimate goal for the running, support the lifting, or races at PR's?

So running is the focus then if increasing the Sat run, don't even pretend to get the most of the W and F SL sessions, they are just interfering with getting a good run, and you likely aren't getting a good lower body workout anyway compared to not running.

What you could do is limit the damage to one day to truly give a recovery the next day.
Put a hard 3 mile run on Mon right after the SL session with whatever strength you got left.
That allows Wed to still be good session.
Put a hard 4 mile run after the Wed session.
So those runs being hard are not going to be training your aerobic system worth anything for endurance, if that is goal with increasing Sat's distance.
Then Fri do another strong SL session, walk afterwards.
Then Sat or Sun, see if you can do the run 36 hrs after lifting, but still allowing about 36 hours until Monday lifting. So if am lifting, pm run. If pm lifting, Sun am run.
Do the run in bottom of aerobic HR zone to indeed improve the aerobic system for endurance, and hopefully not mess up the recovery to a good Fri session. Nor tire out for a good Mon session.

Those rest days between, just walk.

That's the closest I could get to attempting to do both at the same time in a deficit and still make progress with both.

I also have cardio (cycling) and lifting goals and ultimately you do have to find a compromise or prioritise one over the other. It's part of the reason I don't follow a set lifting program - need the flexibility to allow for recovery.
My priorities change according to the season or if an event is coming up.

Overall it's important to focus on quality of training and not just volume - fatigue/recovery are big parts of that. An intense hill climbing session one day isn't going to allow me to do a useful heavy leg day in the gym the next day and vice versa.

When I trained for my biggest cycling event last year the intensity and sheer volume dictated I had to switch to a "Johnny Bravo" lifting routine for a few weeks. Interestingly it didn't impact my lifts at all when I resumed normal weight training but that may be different for a runner.

Believe it or not, your protein intake COULD BE the "magic bullet". Every time you lift, you are breaking down your muscles. When you run long distances, your body actually will begin to fuel itself WITH your muscles. Thus, if you're not eating enough protein, your poor muscles have nothing to rebuild with! And, frankly, that makes them hurt :-)

Keep in mind, as long as you are cutting, you are inhibiting muscle growth. I'm not saying it's impossible to gain muscle strength/stamina, because you certainly can. After reading your post, however, it sounds like a textbook case of "You need to eat more (especially protein)"! This could be why you feel like you may max out on your strength with squats soon. I think you have the right idea - focus on your nutrition, and REST!

Also, if you want to be able to eat more (as you reference above, your motivation for running), try incorporating HIIT into your lifting. You will increase your metabolic rate, WHILE gaining strength and cutting fat.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-pro-trainer-possible-to-build-muscle-while-burning-fat.html

I was running into a similar problem with cycling. As spring would role around and I was getting back on the bike again, the two were leaving my legs just dead. What ended up working for me was a little was breaking up squats to heavy and light days, and going lighter around the days when I rode.

KelicoFit wrote: »

Believe it or not, your protein intake COULD BE the "magic bullet". Every time you lift, you are breaking down your muscles. When you run long distances, your body actually will begin to fuel itself WITH your muscles. Thus, if you're not eating enough protein, your poor muscles have nothing to rebuild with! And, frankly, that makes them hurt :-)

Keep in mind, as long as you are cutting, you are inhibiting muscle growth. I'm not saying it's impossible to gain muscle strength/stamina, because you certainly can. After reading your post, however, it sounds like a textbook case of "You need to eat more (especially protein)"! This could be why you feel like you may max out on your strength with squats soon. I think you have the right idea - focus on your nutrition, and REST!

Also, if you want to be able to eat more (as you reference above, your motivation for running), try incorporating HIIT into your lifting. You will increase your metabolic rate, WHILE gaining strength and cutting fat.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-pro-trainer-possible-to-build-muscle-while-burning-fat.html

Adding HIIT in a context where someone is already experiencing issues with recovery in their legs is really not a good idea at all.

HIIT will impair recovery, not help it.