Stupid Question - Do I have to Eat High Fat to Get in Ketosis???
MaggieLoo79
Posts: 288 Member
I'm so sorry if this is an incredibly stupid question! I've been reading for the last day or so everything I can find on Google about Ketosis. I had been eating a lower carb diet (30%), but have just reduced to 20g net carbs a day - since Tuesday. I've had weight loss already (yeah!!!). My question is this, do I have to eat high fat to go into ketosis? Or is it enough just to do low carb? I've read so much about the benefit of eating high fat, but I'm still confused about whether it is necessary. Thanks for any help you can give me! 
Edited for spelling.
Edited for spelling.
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Don't feel stupid. At one point in his life, Einstein had to be taught what an electron was. Look at him today.
Ketosis (or nutritional ketosis) is when your body is using a greater amount of fat cells for energy output. Carbs are process first and foremost in the body, because the body has nowhere to store them as glucose other than the muscles. If carbs are consumed, they will be used for energy, among other things.
Ketosis is a state where your body is converting fat to usable energy, and the higher number of ketones in the blood, the more fat your body is using. ketones are measured the same way blood glucose is, just on a different strip and algorithm. The higher the number, to a certain point, the better state of ketosis you are in. this is done by reducing carbs to below your tolerance (which is arbitrary) and moderating protein. Protein gets broken down into amino acids, and-as I understand it- can be converted into glucose to be oxidized by the body.0 -
In short, no. Ketosis comes from limiting carbs, the high fat is more for satiety.0
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sweetteadrinker2 wrote: »In short, no. Ketosis comes from limiting carbs, the high fat is more for satiety.
Exactly this. You do need to eat fat, but it's not required for ketosis.0 -
I don't see how you can do it without high fat (besides starvation). If your carbs are high, you'll be using glucose. If your protein is high and in excess, the process of gluconeogenesis will turn much of that protein into glucose. I would really like to know how you can become keto adapted without fat as the dominant macro.sweetteadrinker2 wrote: »In short, no. Ketosis comes from limiting carbs, the high fat is more for satiety.
Exactly this. You do need to eat fat, but it's not required for ketosis.
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The fat is the fun part! Low carb and low fat just isn't sustainable. Embrace the fat, it makes you happy and full!0
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I don't see how you can do it without high fat (besides starvation). If your carbs are high, you'll be using glucose. If your protein is high and in excess, the process of gluconeogenesis will turn much of that protein into glucose. I would really like to know how you can become keto adapted without fat as the dominant macro.sweetteadrinker2 wrote: »In short, no. Ketosis comes from limiting carbs, the high fat is more for satiety.
Exactly this. You do need to eat fat, but it's not required for ketosis.
The question was, "is eating high fat required for ketosis?" The answer is no. If the question was "is eating low fat and low carb a good idea?" The answer would also be no. The OP did not indicate how high protein would be. Ketosis naturally occurs during starvation, when all macros are low. Is starving oneself a a good idea or a sustainable diet? No. But sweetteadrinker2 and I were answering the question that was asked.
MaggieLoo79, if you are really asking, "should I eat low fat and low carb?" The answer is no, not as a long term sustainable diet. But there are people who do this for short term. If that is what you want to try, look into the Stillman diet. I have lost 94 lbs. eating low carb, high fat, so I have never tried such as plan, so I can't recommend it personally.0 -
Also, OP, don't be afraid of protein. Yes glucogenesis is a thing, but it's not one of our bodies most efficient mechanisms. Most people find protein very satiating and naturally don't eat to much.0
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sweetteadrinker2 wrote: »In short, no. Ketosis comes from limiting carbs, the high fat is more for satiety.
NO, this is wrong. You need to have low carbs, high fat and moderate protein. If you go for prolonged periods with low carb, low fat and HIGH protein you risk getting VERY sick. Additionally, just like excess carbs, excess protein also gets stored as fat.
Nope, one will not be ketogenic without fat being the dominant macro... except in cases of starvation.
Fats are healthy. If you don't think so, this is the wrong lifestyle for you.
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Akimajuktuq wrote: »sweetteadrinker2 wrote: »In short, no. Ketosis comes from limiting carbs, the high fat is more for satiety.
NO, this is wrong. You need to have low carbs, high fat and moderate protein. If you go for prolonged periods with low carb, low fat and HIGH protein you risk getting VERY sick. Additionally, just like excess carbs, excess protein also gets stored as fat.
Nope, one will not be ketogenic without fat being the dominant macro... except in cases of starvation.
Fats are healthy. If you don't think so, this is the wrong lifestyle for you.
According to Phinney and Volek, ketosis means you are making substantial amounts ketones, for most people this means consuming fewer than 50 g carbohydrates a day. The amount if fat you eat is irrelevant re: the ability to achieve ketosis. A well-formulated ketogenic diet is indeed low carb, high fat, moderate protein. This is a healthful ketogenic diet. But again, it's not what the OP was asking. She was asking if it is possible to achieve ketosis without eating high fat, and the answer is yes. Also, for people who have body fat to lose, that body fat will be used as part of a person's macronutrient ratio if the person is eating at a calorie deficit (below their TDEE).0 -
Akimajuktuq wrote: »sweetteadrinker2 wrote: »In short, no. Ketosis comes from limiting carbs, the high fat is more for satiety.
NO, this is wrong. You need to have low carbs, high fat and moderate protein. If you go for prolonged periods with low carb, low fat and HIGH protein you risk getting VERY sick. Additionally, just like excess carbs, excess protein also gets stored as fat.
Nope, one will not be ketogenic without fat being the dominant macro... except in cases of starvation.
Fats are healthy. If you don't think so, this is the wrong lifestyle for you.
OP was not asking if fats were healthy. OP was asking about achieving ketosis. The body makes ketones when there is a lack of glucose and glycogen. These come from carbs-limiting carbs is the only MANDATORY thing to enter ketosis. It'd be nice if OP could eat a LCHFMP diet, but let them go one step at a time. They'll drop into ketosis if their carbs are low enough.
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MaggieLoo79 wrote: »I'm so sorry if this is an incredibly stupid question! I've been reading for the last day or so everything I can find on Google about Ketosis. I had been eating a lower carb diet (30%), but have just reduced to 20g net carbs a day - since Tuesday. I've had weight loss already (yeah!!!). My question is this, do I have to eat high fat to go into ketosis? Or is it enough just to do low carb? I've read so much about the benefit of eating high fat, but I'm still confused about whether it is necessary. Thanks for any help you can give me!
Edited for spelling.
If you want to go on a standard Ketogenic diet, read the above, eat high amounts of fat.
As a side note, as Mistizoom and Akim said, if you go low fat AND low carb, that can potentially be dangerous. I have a friend here in Michigan, that lost over 102 pounds on a Low Fat Low Carb diet. The name of the weight loss clinic is Medical Weight Loss Clinic. I don't know if they are a chain or not, but they are here in Michigan. Now, notice the name, "Medical". That's because these diets HAVE to be supervised by a doctor. They have to check blood work (and or other tests) because if your diet has a lot of protein in it, (more than a medium amount) it will damage some of your organs (I think Kidney).
Interestingly, when I talked to my friend Vince, he didn't know the term "macro" or "ketosis" or anything like that. So after many intense questions from me about what he ate, I determined he was in ketosis and he did say it was a Low Fat Low carb diet. The way the diet worked was ~ the weight center put him on a specific eating plan and I think he could purchase the food from them also. And my friend followed it to the last detail (he is a very disciplined person ~ unlike me LOL!) That way he was guaranteed to get into ketosis.
I also don't think that the clinic let it's members know about all this technical, macro stuff, or even makes them track MFP. Its a controlled "canned & orchestrated" diet. But I assure you that the doctors there know what is going on, because if they allowed their members to get injured, they would be sued out of existence.
Here is a pic of my friend. He lost 102 lbs in 26 weeks. He also has been in local TV commercials:
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
My Blog: It's Ketogenic or Bariatric (How I found the Ketogenic Diet)
Keto Abbreviations, Acronyms & Terminology Used in LCD & Keto Discussion Groups
My Past Discussions (lots of easy Keto recipes and other useful Keto info)
Blog #11 Really Good Keto Websites
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All you people quit using the term "Starvation", that has a negative connotation
. Its called a "fast" or "fasting state".... (LOL!) 
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
My Blog: Intermittent Water Fasting & Keto0 -
Some people fast to get into ketosis faster, but your body needs something for energy eventually!0
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Thanks for all the great answers! It feels so strange to eat high fat and my first few days I didn't get enough calories in because of that. I'm "braver" now and I have upped my fat intake though I'm not quite hitting that 75% yet. I think the best I did was 67%. I just wasn't sure if that would keep me from ketosis, but now I know! Thank you so much! 0
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MaggieLoo79 wrote: »Thanks for all the great answers! It feels so strange to eat high fat and my first few days I didn't get enough calories in because of that. I'm "braver" now and I have upped my fat intake though I'm not quite hitting that 75% yet. I think the best I did was 67%. I just wasn't sure if that would keep me from ketosis, but now I know! Thank you so much!
Sounds like you are doing just fine!
Keep in mind, if you are losing weight, your body actually "sees" a higher fat percentage because it is using some body fat as part of your fat macro. So 75% dietary fat isn't necessarily necessary for someone in weight loss mode.
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The diet I follow is low carb, low fat, high protein (8 oz of meat per day).
The lack of carbs is what put you into ketosis.
On a side note, a person can eat high amounts of carbs and through exercise burn enough to put themselves into ketosis.0 -
GuyIncognito123 wrote: »The diet I follow is low carb, low fat, high protein (8 oz of meat per day).
The lack of carbs is what put you into ketosis.
On a side note, a person can eat high amounts of carbs and through exercise burn enough to put themselves into ketosis.
8oz of meat per day is not "high protein".
95/5 ground beef = 48g protein/8oz raw
chicken breast(meat only)= 52g protein/8oz raw
pork tenderloin = 46g protein/8oz raw
tuna = 52g/8oz raw
salmon = 45g/8oz raw
turkey breast(meat only)= 55g/8oz raw
Just examples of common meats
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Sorry - this is my protein on a typical day. 8 oz's are dedicated to meat.
Morning shake: 30g
Lunch shake: 30g
Lunch Veggies: 5g
Afternoon snack: 27g
Supper: 45g
Supper Veggies: 5g
Works out closely to the formula of .75g per pound of body weight.0 -
GuyIncognito123 wrote: »Sorry - this is my protein on a typical day. 8 oz's are dedicated to meat.
Morning shake: 30g
Lunch shake: 30g
Lunch Veggies: 5g
Afternoon snack: 27g
Supper: 45g
Supper Veggies: 5g
Works out closely to the formula of .75g per pound of body weight.
That makes more sense. Lots of shakes though. Out of curiosity, what type of protein in those shakes?
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Some people fast to get into ketosis faster, but your body needs something for energy eventually!
Yes, that is correct. A normal weight person has enough fat to water fast for about 40 - 50 days. If you are a fat person, you can go a lot longer. You can go to YouTube and find many people talk about 20+ day fasts. Do I do fasts or recommend fasts for that long? No, but I have done two four day fasts, many 2 day fasts and a slew of skip-a-day-of-eating fasts.
There is a well known story, from 1965, of a 27 year old Scottsman that weighed 456 lbs and he went on a supervised 382 day water fast! Details are here:
Features of a successful therapeutic fast of 382 days' duration
It is a very detailed one page report.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
My Blog: Intermittent Water Fasting & Keto
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I cheap out with them. lol
I've been using the Chocolate Body Fortress from Walmart (whey protein isolate). It's a fraction of the cost from buying the shakes from the program I'm on (Ideal Protein diet). The taste is acceptable for the money saved. One scoop is 130 cals, 3g of carbs, 1g of fibre and 30g of protein).
Lately I've been mixing one scoop to 8 oz of vanilla almond soy/milk and 8 oz of water. It really just add bulk to it. (approx 35 cals and 1g of carb added on).0 -
@GuyIncognito123 eat real food man 0
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Random guy on Internet tells me to stop eating my meat, salad and vegetables. Why yes, yes I will take your advice to switch that for real food
lol
Actually, the most ironic part is that it's coming from someone who promotes "fasting" on their profile page.0 -
GuyIncognito123 wrote: »Random guy on Internet tells me to stop eating my meat, salad and vegetables. Why yes, yes I will take your advice to switch that for real food lol
Actually, the most ironic part is that it's coming from someone who promotes "fasting" on their profile page.
He's referring to the fact that more than half of your protein intake is coming from protein shakes instead of whole food sources of protein.
Also, please educate yourself on what intermittent fasting is before you criticize it as though he's promoting not eating at all (especially in this case, when it's 16:8/leangains style, which is simply a condensed eating window).0 -
Wow, the trolls are hungry today. Note to self... stop feeding them.0
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We're trying to help. Solid real food is always going to be better than powder, and you should look in to intermittent fasting before you dis it:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting0 -
The keto (and low carb high fat, etc.) groups are generally full of well intentioned, helpful, and educated folks. Friendly and NICE. We keep snark to a minimum and will usually add a smilie to soften the blow in case any of the advice or comments may come across as hard.
It's the one reason why this is the ONLY group of people I will go to for advice or help. If anyone feels like picking a fight or poking at someone....yeah you should go hang out in the litter box (General MFP forums).
I'm not namin names.... just sayin.
OP hope your question was answered and you can move forward and see progress. I think that you really have to tweak your macros (especially where fat is concerned). Fat is to satiety, not necessarily to target. Pay attention to how you feel- if you find you're having cravings, or just not feeling full enough, chances are you need more fat. (Healthy fat of course).
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We're trying to help. Solid real food is always going to be better than powder, and you should look in to intermittent fasting before you dis it:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting
Agreed! 0 -
I didn't ask for help, I just answered a question.
Maybe you missed the part where I mentioned I was on a structured "recognized" laid out diet. But you're right, strangers on a message board are more familiar with my history, know why I'm on the program, and know best.
So..... kindly P.O. 0
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