How long until you saw insulin sensitizing effects?
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1) Are you currently exercising (sounds like yes)? Phinney and Volek say obese individuals may need to hold off on that until closer to goal weight. I am.
2) Have you tried any supplements for insulin/blood glucose support, or just the metformin? I haven't personally, but I know some people use berberine, it is supposed to work as well or better than metformin with fewer side effects. There is one other I have heard of recently but I can't think of the name at the moment.
3) And I agree with kirkor that it would be helpful to know your calorie deficit. I gained 15 lbs. recently by eating LCHF and not watching calories. Thankfully it is coming off now that I am back to tracking.
Sorry if you already answered any of these an I missed it.0 -
Quote by Dan "Does every woman with PCOS not lose hardly any weight just like you? Exactly how long have you been trying to lose weight with a lo-carb diet? And how many pounds have you lost on lo-carbs?"
@Dan. Actually YES I do think many of us with PCOS have a terrible time losing weight no matter how low we starve ourselves and how hard we fight. I was on 500 calories a day and riding my stationary bike 20 miles each day and gained 35 pounds in one month. This is not a healthy WOE and I do not condone it but I was desperate to stop the weight gain. I am stopping right here before I say some thing I should not.
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For the past 2 months I started checking my blood sugar levels in the morning. It ranged from 67 to 80 initially, for about 1 month.
I really started going hard with Keto . Got recipes off instagram because I was bored with my meals. I started making the crack cheesecake with sugar free jello, cream cheese and heavy whipping cream. I added the carbmaster yogurt from Krogers. I also started drinking Monster energy drinks and a energy powder drink mix from Krogers. This meant I was now ingesting sucralose, which I stayed clear from for years.
My go to sweetener had been stevia since I started LC in June 2011.
Once I increased my sucralose guess what , my fasting blood sugar has been 95 almost every morning.This bothered me and in the back of my mind I had a feeling it was related to the sucralose . So I came home from work today and cleaned out my pantry, threw out all products with sucralose or similar sweeteners. I will give my body a few days to see if my fasting blood sugar goes back to the 67 to 80 range. Thanks OP for posting this thread. It made me think. I know its said 95 is normal but this has not been my normal . Looking back at my annual lab results I was normally in the 70 range.
My maternal grandmother was a diabetic and passed away due to complications. My mother and brother are both insulin dependant diabetics.0 -
P.S.S. So, please don't kick me off the list just yet (I see you are a leader on this group). I might not be able to help you, but I do try really hard to help everyone on this list and Keto. I'm 58 years old, I get more onery and less patient with people the older I get, probably the gluten and grains I ate pre-keto have screwed up my demeanor...
Technically, I'm a leader, and I'm not the type to kick people just because they piss me off or frustrate me. If I felt the need or desire to kick someone from the group, I'd consult the others, first. So, there's no need to fear that.P.S. I don't really care to continue this discussion, to me, if I believe all your eloquent words, charts and graphs, I conclude that it is impossible for you to lose weight. I'm done, with posting on this thread, (unless you say something really outrageous!) I'll move on. How about you?
Frankly, I was considering not even responding, or just doing so to call you on the fact that you thoroughly derailed my thread, since you've done nothing but berate everything I've said. If it weren't for the fact that I could tell that you know nothing about PCOS, I'd think you were being willfully obtuse. Perhaps you still are, but at least your lack of knowledge provides some plausible deniability. And no, I'm not the only one that holds that opinion.
I'm still going to reply to some more of your response. Whether you continue is up to you. I'm doing this as much for my own benefit and that of the others who are in a more similar situation to mine as I am.But I think you want the weight to just drop off easily. You are special, you're gonna have to fight and struggle to get it off.
Whether you want to believe it or not, I don't care if the weight drops off easily. I'd be happy if it drops off at all, so long as the method by which I'm doing it is safe and sustainable.I see excuses, like "you can't fast past 17 hours." I also see you will not lower your carbs to a very low level (less than 10). I don't see you saying, "I'm gonna eat 5 carbs a day for a month and see what happens". Have you tried that?
I never said I wouldn't, I only said I my current happens to be higher and that I'm okay with the way my carbs fall now. If I'd have refused to decrease my carbs, I would still be eating the 200+ I was eating until about 2 years ago.
I also said that my current fasting limit is 17 hours, and yes, right now, going beyond that is enough of a risk of being one that I don't care to take the chance. I don't sit on my *kitten* all day and do nothing. I have other responsibilities in my life, which I'll go into more later. As a result, I'm not about to jump head first into a 24+ hour fast right at the moment. That doesn't mean I'll never consider it, it's just not a feasibility right now.Does every woman with PCOS not lose hardly any weight just like you?
Some do, some don't. Did you know Jillian Michaels has PCOS? Yep, she does, but as you can tell, she's not overweight (and I can't find any evidence that she was). I've also helped several women start losing weight when they couldn't before by introducing them to LCHF. I also know a couple of women who would gain weight uncontrollably, even eating next to nothing, until they found some obscure drug that finally stopped it. Ahh, the joys of having a "constellation of symptoms" that happen to share the same name.Exactly how long have you been trying to lose weight with a lo-carb diet? And how many pounds have you lost on lo-carbs?
If we assume low-carb is anything under 150g, then I've been doing it for nearly three years. My original goal was 100g, which I did until about 8 months ago, when I dropped it to 75g, because I wasn't getting anywhere. Then I dropped it to 50g, about 5 months ago, then to 40g about a month ago.
My total time I've been attempting to lose weight has been 7 years. I've lost a net total of 30 pounds. In seven years. That works out to 5 pounds a year.
Of course, it was also anything but linear. That loss actually all came in 2009, when I went on Metformin the first time, and it successfully lowered my insulin below the threshold I have since found required for me to lose weight (this is the first half of how I figured out said number, by the way). I went from about 285-290, down to a low of 220. Unfortunately, I had to stop the Metformin, so that I could hold food down for the sake of my then-unborn son. So he could, you know, get nutrients. After that, my doctor refused to put me back on it. As a result, I've since gained back nearly 40lbs.
Technically speaking, I've lost nothing on low carb. So why do I stay on it? Because if there's one thing all this *kitten* I've had to put up with has taught me, it's that weight isn't the only marker of health, and weight loss isn't the only weight-related measure of success. Low carb has allowed me to stop gaining weight without having to starve myself to do so, which is alone enough to keep going on it. It's also an enjoyable way of eating that doesn't leave me feeling deprived, and doesn't have me reaching for prescription levels of ibuprofen on a daily basis to stave off migraines.I don't see any "fight" in you.
That's because I'm choosing to save most of my fighting energy for the people who can actually make a difference in my life. Like doctors and family members.
Because, you see, when you have PCOS, it's not just the weight you fight. It's pretty much the rest of the world, because like you, the rest of the world doesn't understand PCOS, either. Not even the doctors.
I had a doctor one time ask me if I was Diabetic, because he saw the Metformin on my chart. When I told him no, it was for the PCOS, I kid you not, he asked "what is that?"
The worst part about that is that this kind of interaction happens more often than not, because if the doctor knows what PCOS is, they are very likely horribly (and dangerously) misinformed about it. So I have to spend ungodly amounts of time and energy explaining to doctors what PCOS is, why it is, in fact, a concern even though I'm not looking to get pregnant, and what tests need to be run to get the information needed to actually treat the problem.
And that's just one aspect of what I have to do on a regular basis, just for me, for the PCOS. That doesn't include dealing with co-morbids, like depression, the non-related issues, like my degenerative discs and the associated fighting with insurance, and the health issues we've had with our 5 year old (the least of which being the fact that he's basically vegetarian in an otherwise fairly low carb, carnivorous household). Oh, and all of that is on top of being a developer by trade, where having brain function at 110% at all times is pretty much expected.
So yeah, I've chosen to pick my battles, and the ones I've chosen aren't the ones you would have chosen. Instead, I've identified an objective measure that I've been successful at changing in the past and, as a result, have been able to lose weight, so I'm looking to manipulate that measure again, so that I can not only lose weight, but also get the rest of my hormones in some semblance of balance, because hyperinsulinemia does not just mean that I have trouble losing weight. It also means that all the rest of my hormones are out of whack, because of it (hyperinsulinemia in women leads to elevated testosterone, which leads to high levels of estrogen, and low levels of progesterone, just for starters).Before I found the Keto WOE, I was going to do Bariatrics. When I researched it for over 4 years, I kept seeing many many women do it and have success. Have you considered that? Of course that will be painful, so I'm thinking that is out of the question.
I'm going to ignore the condescending attitude behind this part. Just like I'm ignoring the other condescending parts of your response, because I still want this to be constructive for others.
I actually have looked into it, and no, it's not an option. It's not an option, not because it's "hard," but because I consider it dangerous and, like Dr. Fung stated in the video you linked earlier, why do the surgery to do the diet, when it's the diet that's the effective part? (And, for that matter, if the diet is the effective part, and it's not having the intended effect, then what's the point of the surgery? Especially when at that point, all you'd have left are the risks.)I will continue to search for 'easy' ways to lose weight that are not painful in any way.
I seriously don't understand how you got it in your head that I've been looking for an "easy" way to do this. If I was looking for "easy" ways to lose weight, I'd be burning through fad diets or doing something like Nutrisystem, where the program does the thinking for me.
No, I'm not looking for the "easy" way to lose weight, I'm looking for a way to fix the underlying issue (or at least improve it enough to break the cycle and start a new, positive one). That is, actually, far more difficult and time consuming. Depending on who you talk to, starving oneself is the "easy" way. After all, you don't have to worry yourself with the underlying mechanics of things, or such matters as whether you're maintaining your lean mass, or what the long term effects on your metabolism, adrenals, and thyroid are. You're also just forcing your way through the "wall" that is whatever issue you may have, in order to make progress somewhere else, which may or may not be effective (or even what's needed).0 -
@Dragonwolf what was your caloric deficit those 3 months?
The goal has always been set to a roughly 500 calorie deficit from my calculated TDEE at sedentary. Typically, my intake falls more into the 500-750 calorie deficit range.
In raw calories, that's always worked out to 1900 calories at the 500 calorie deficit, and actual intake ranges from about 1300 on up. I'm around 1500-1700 about as often as I'm around 1900.1) Are you currently exercising (sounds like yes)? Phinney and Volek say obese individuals may need to hold off on that until closer to goal weight. I am.
2) Have you tried any supplements for insulin/blood glucose support, or just the metformin? I haven't personally, but I know some people use berberine, it is supposed to work as well or better than metformin with fewer side effects. There is one other I have heard of recently but I can't think of the name at the moment.
3) And I agree with kirkor that it would be helpful to know your calorie deficit. I gained 15 lbs. recently by eating LCHF and not watching calories. Thankfully it is coming off now that I am back to tracking.
Sorry if you already answered any of these an I missed it.
1) Both. I started exercising again a few weeks ago, less so for weight purposes and more for mental and PCOS-related physical health. Before that, I've been completely sedentary since about September or October, due to back issues. Neither the type nor the amount of exercise seems to make a difference.
2) I've been taking Inositol (which is probably the other supplement you were thinking of), since shortly before I stopped the Metformin. 12g per day, Myo-Inositol.
3) See my response, above.steffiejoe wrote: »Once I increased my sucralose guess what , my fasting blood sugar has been 95 almost every morning.This bothered me and in the back of my mind I had a feeling it was related to the sucralose . So I came home from work today and cleaned out my pantry, threw out all products with sucralose or similar sweeteners. I will give my body a few days to see if my fasting blood sugar goes back to the 67 to 80 range. Thanks OP for posting this thread. It made me think. I know its said 95 is normal but this has not been my normal . Looking back at my annual lab results I was normally in the 70 range.
Thanks for the idea for that. My go-to sweetener is Stevia drops, which I generally only use a couple of drops and only occasionally. I'm a sort of "real stuff or don't bother" type of person and don't really like most other sweeteners, so it works out well that way.0 -
One more question, have you have a full thyroid panel (min. free T3, free T4, TSH, anti-thyroid peroxidase, possibly anti-thyroglobulin? DH has Hashimoto's and has a very hard time losing when his thyroid is hypo (he does take medication, but Hashimoto's makes treatment difficult).0
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One more question, have you have a full thyroid panel (min. free T3, free T4, TSH, anti-thyroid peroxidase, possibly anti-thyroglobulin? DH has Hashimoto's and has a very hard time losing when his thyroid is hypo (he does take medication, but Hashimoto's makes treatment difficult).
Unfortunately, not yet. It's been hard enough to even get basic bloodwork, let alone the more advanced thyroid stuff. There's a shortage of endocrinologists in my area, so getting an appointment with one is a PITA, and regular doctors are pretty clueless on these types of matters.0 -
Also, it sounds like 40 g carbs/day is the lowest you've done? On another board I'm on a number of people say they don't lose above 20 or 25 g carbs/day. I think that's why Atkins has people start at 20 and slowly move up from there. Might be worth a shot.0
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shadesofidaho wrote: »Quote by Dan "Does every woman with PCOS not lose hardly any weight just like you? Exactly how long have you been trying to lose weight with a lo-carb diet? And how many pounds have you lost on lo-carbs?"
@Dan. Actually YES I do think many of us with PCOS have a terrible time losing weight no matter how low we starve ourselves and how hard we fight. I was on 500 calories a day and riding my stationary bike 20 miles each day and gained 35 pounds in one month. This is not a healthy WOE and I do not condone it but I was desperate to stop the weight gain. I am stopping right here before I say some thing I should not.
@DittoDan YES! Most women, but not all, have a huge problem losing weight. There was a study done, Ill have to see if I can find the link where women with PCOS had decently lower bmr, and if you have PCOS and IR it is even lower. So yes, many stories of PCOS women who were eating less than 800 calories a day net, didnt add back their exercise calories and either not losing or even gaining weight, me included.
It has to do a lot with the high insulin and wacky hormones interacting in odd ways. It is much more straight forward with diabetes but with PCOS, its a whole new bag of craziness. With PCOS if you cant get your insulin down, even eating LCHF, you cant lose much weight, your hormones refuse to allow you to.0 -
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I posted the BMR study above:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18678372
OO ty! I didnt even see that, and I dont know how i missed it! Sorry, tyvm for posting this.0 -
Out of curiosity, what calculator are you using to compute your TDEE? Are you very tall and/or very muscular? I personally need to be around 1400 cal/day or so to lose.0
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It sounds hopeless for PCOS women. But I will respond to one thing Dragon said that was outrageous:
>>I also said that my current fasting limit is 17 hours, and yes, right now, going beyond that is enough of a risk of being one that I don't care to take the chance. I don't sit on my ***** all day and do nothing. I have other responsibilities in my life, which I'll go into more later. As a result, I'm not about to jump head first into a 24+ hour fast right at the moment. That doesn't mean I'll never consider it, it's just not a feasibility right now.<<
You say you don't sit on your ***** all day and do nothing. I am just curious, are you saying that a person that fasts can't work or move or take care of kids? If that's the case you are wrong. Every time I have fasted (and up to 4 days water fast) I worked my normal job. Drove a car, normal activity, if I didn't tell a person I was fasting, they wouldn't have known there was anything different about me. And I am 58 and my muscles are atrophied. You are very young and in much better shape than I am. What happens if you go past 17 hours?
A normal person that is not overweight can fast for about 40ish days straight.
A Scotsman that weighed 456 lbs fasted for 382 days.
Features of a successful therapeutic fast of 382 days' duration
Dan the Man from Michigan
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I am 5'5" 65 years female weight now 209. This is my calorie consumption over 90 days the red line is 1300. kcal total daily energy expenditure is 1794. In 90 days my calories have gone over 1300 calories 15 times My carbs have always been 20 or below, Maybe one or two days 21. I count straight carbs not NET and 4 carbs daily is the fiber powder I use. In 90 days I have lost 3 pounds. I marked Sedentary on the Keto calculator and I am far from sedentary. It is hard for PCOS women to lose weight.
Edit to add I have been in small to moderate Methodist since Dec 5.
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shadesofidaho wrote: »I am 5'5" 65 years female weight now 209. This is my calorie consumption over 90 days the red line is 1300. kcal total daily energy expenditure is 1794. In 90 days my calories have gone over 1300 calories 15 times My carbs have always been 20 or below, Maybe one or two days 21. I count straight carbs not NET and 4 carbs daily is the fiber powder I use. In 90 days I have lost 3 pounds. I marked Sedentary on the Keto calculator and I am far from sedentary. It is hard for PCOS women to lose weight.
If you drank distilled water for 2 or 3 days, with no food except for non-caloric minerals and vitamins would you?
Gain weight?
Stay the same?
Lose weight?
Dan the Man from Michigan
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Dragonwolf wrote: »So, for those that have been able to manage their blood sugar/insulin issues with similar diet/lifestyle changes, how long did it take for you to see results? What tweaks did you have to make to get things to fall into place (if any)?
To get back to the OP, I guess seven months:
Diabetic DittoDan’s Blood Work 03-10-2015 Part 1
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan0 -
Dragonwolf, have you ever considered a fat fast? (3-5 days @ 90% fat, 1,000 cal/day)? I haven't but would consider it if I had a serious stall.0
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It sounds hopeless for PCOS women. But I will respond to one thing Dragon said that was outrageous:
>>I also said that my current fasting limit is 17 hours, and yes, right now, going beyond that is enough of a risk of being one that I don't care to take the chance. I don't sit on my ***** all day and do nothing. I have other responsibilities in my life, which I'll go into more later. As a result, I'm not about to jump head first into a 24+ hour fast right at the moment. That doesn't mean I'll never consider it, it's just not a feasibility right now.<<
You say you don't sit on your ***** all day and do nothing. I am just curious, are you saying that a person that fasts can't work or move or take care of kids? If that's the case you are wrong. Every time I have fasted (and up to 4 days water fast) I worked my normal job. Drove a car, normal activity, if I didn't tell a person I was fasting, they wouldn't have known there was anything different about me. And I am 58 and my muscles are atrophied. You are very young and in much better shape than I am. What happens if you go past 17 hours?
A normal person that is not overweight can fast for about 40ish days straight.
A Scotsman that weighed 456 lbs fasted for 382 days.
Features of a successful therapeutic fast of 382 days' duration
Dan the Man from Michigan
Okay, seriously, what part of 16:8 IF routine and I don't feel comfortable doing the same thing you do right now are you not getting? And no, it's not because it's "hard," it's because I know my body and don't feel safe doing that for the length of time you're advocating, given my activities and responsibilities. I don't care if you, personally, fasted for three years straight.Also, it sounds like 40 g carbs/day is the lowest you've done? On another board I'm on a number of people say they don't lose above 20 or 25 g carbs/day. I think that's why Atkins has people start at 20 and slowly move up from there. Might be worth a shot.
Yeah, I've been toying around with the idea of going sub-20g, but I found a while back that trying to jump down too quick results in my body revolting more than I can handle and still keep up with my responsibilities (it'd be one thing if it was just having to not exercise for a couple weeks, but it's not). So I've been walking it down.Out of curiosity, what calculator are you using to compute your TDEE? Are you very tall and/or very muscular? I personally need to be around 1400 cal/day or so to lose.
All of them. They all give me pretty much the same numbers:
Formula - BMR / TDEE (at sedentary)
Mifflin-St Jeor - 1964 / 2357
Harris-Benedict - 1966 / 2359
Katch-McArdie - 1953 / 2344
I am rather tall for a woman, at 5'9" (175cm). Fat2Fit calculates my body fat at 28%, based on my measurements, while keto calculator thinks 47%, based on my height and weight. Body fat percentage changes the Katch-McArdie values to 1703 / 2044 (47% BF) or 2181 / 2617 (28% BF). The above number for Katch-McArdie assumes 37% body fat (since I figure my actual body fat falls in between the two).Dragonwolf, have you ever considered a fat fast? (3-5 days @ 90% fat, 1,000 cal/day)? I haven't but would consider it if I had a serious stall.
The thought's crossed my mind, but haven't really seriously considered it. In large part because this isn't really "breaking a stall," but dealing with hormonal issues that are preventing me from losing weight, hence my original question of how long it takes to see the insulin sensitizing effects of the given diet/lifestyle factors.0 -
You don't have to get all upset at people trying to help you. That's what discussion groups are for. People helping people that have similar problems.
Dan the Man from Michigan0 -
You don't have to get all upset at people trying to help you. That's what discussion groups are for. People helping people that have similar problems.
Dan the Man from Michigan
You spent the first page and a half berating me, because I wasn't doing things your way. It wasn't until late in page 2 that you even answered my original question. That's not helping.0 -
I posted the BMR study above:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18678372
for the lazy -
"Adjusted BMR was 1,868 +/- 41 kcal/day in the control group, 1,445.57 +/- 76 in all PCOS women, 1,590 +/- 130 in PCOS women without IR and 1,116 +/- 106 in PCOS women with IR. Adjusted BMR showed a statistically significant difference between women with PCOS and control subjects, with lowest values in the group of PCOS women with IR, even after adjusting all groups for age and BMI."0 -
I posted the BMR study above:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18678372
for the lazy -
"Adjusted BMR was 1,868 +/- 41 kcal/day in the control group, 1,445.57 +/- 76 in all PCOS women, 1,590 +/- 130 in PCOS women without IR and 1,116 +/- 106 in PCOS women with IR. Adjusted BMR showed a statistically significant difference between women with PCOS and control subjects, with lowest values in the group of PCOS women with IR, even after adjusting all groups for age and BMI."
Cripes. I guess I'm lucky I can eat 1400 cal/day and lose with PCOS/IR. I guess the metformin does help in that regard, though.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »You don't have to get all upset at people trying to help you. That's what discussion groups are for. People helping people that have similar problems.
Dan the Man from Michigan
You spent the first page and a half berating me, because I wasn't doing things your way. It wasn't until late in page 2 that you even answered my original question. That's not helping.
You sure are thin skinned. It seems to me that you get upset when people don't agree with you. Then you say they don't know what their talking about in a condescending manner like you are "holier than thou".
Dan the Man from Michigan
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Dr Michelle Harvie's intermittent carb and calorie reduction trial reduced insulin levels by about 1/3 and improved sensitivity http://journals.cambridge.org/fulltext_content/BJN/BJN110_08/S0007114513000792_tab2.gif from this paper
IECR (2500–2717 kJ/d, < 40 g carbohydrate/d for 2 d/week (600 to 650 calories, 2 consecutive days, maintenance other 5).0 -
I posted the BMR study above:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18678372
for the lazy -
"Adjusted BMR was 1,868 +/- 41 kcal/day in the control group, 1,445.57 +/- 76 in all PCOS women, 1,590 +/- 130 in PCOS women without IR and 1,116 +/- 106 in PCOS women with IR. Adjusted BMR showed a statistically significant difference between women with PCOS and control subjects, with lowest values in the group of PCOS women with IR, even after adjusting all groups for age and BMI."
Cripes. I guess I'm lucky I can eat 1400 cal/day and lose with PCOS/IR. I guess the metformin does help in that regard, though.
Same here! Thankfully the Met is still working for me, as I know it can stop working in some PCOS women, and I take Inositol to help with that too so I can do about 1500 cal/day and lose if i stay LC.0 -
Hubby does NOT have PCOS but he does take Inositol. Oncologist or surgeon, I forget which, said it would be good for him to take it. Interesting. Maybe he will share his capsules with me.
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Elimated the artificial sweeteners and this was my fasting BS
I have only had water and unsweetened tea today . Getting ready to eat my brunch now .
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shadesofidaho wrote: »Hubby does NOT have PCOS but he does take Inositol. Oncologist or surgeon, I forget which, said it would be good for him to take it. Interesting. Maybe he will share his capsules with me.
Inositol helps with insulin regulation, so you dont have to have PCOS to benefit from it.0 -
shadesofidaho wrote: »Hubby does NOT have PCOS but he does take Inositol. Oncologist or surgeon, I forget which, said it would be good for him to take it. Interesting. Maybe he will share his capsules with me.
Inositol helps with insulin regulation, so you don't have to have PCOS to benefit from it.
I figured this. I did not question why at the time. If they said he should take it I got it for him. I know they were worried about his pancreas producing enough insulin when they amputated 1/3 third of it off.
I will start taking it too. Will note todays date for starting it and see if there is any difference for me as time goes by that I can tie back to the Inositol.
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shadesofidaho wrote: »shadesofidaho wrote: »Hubby does NOT have PCOS but he does take Inositol. Oncologist or surgeon, I forget which, said it would be good for him to take it. Interesting. Maybe he will share his capsules with me.
Inositol helps with insulin regulation, so you don't have to have PCOS to benefit from it.
I figured this. I did not question why at the time. If they said he should take it I got it for him. I know they were worried about his pancreas producing enough insulin when they amputated 1/3 third of it off.
I will start taking it too. Will note todays date for starting it and see if there is any difference for me as time goes by that I can tie back to the Inositol.
It actually can help a lot of things, but for our discussion I mentioned insulin regulation. But it helps mood disorders especially depression, helps balance hormones and helps egg quality, if you were looking for any of that. But for diabetics and those with insulin issues, it is great for insulin regulation with and without Met.0
This discussion has been closed.