Two Lovely Ladies seek Friendship/Carb-Loading Advice
GrannyMayOz
Posts: 1,051 Member
Two ladies, both 'mature' (which means 'slow to lose weight, if at all') seeking help. We've both decided that nothing else is working for us right now and we've decided to be brave and have a carb-loading day..
Our diaries are both open
myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/wheatlessgirl66
myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/GrannyMayOz
if anyone could be kind enough to suggest what macros we should aim for on our C-L day?
I've had a few higher carb days with the following results.
10th Mar 23 g carbs led to 100 g gain then 200 g gain over the next 2 days
13th Mar 22 g carbs led to no change next day
14th Mar 30 g carbs led to 100 g gain then 200g gain over the next 2 days
12th Apr 29 g carbs led to 300 g loss the next morning (back to equal lowest weight of 9th Apr) but 700 g gain the following day
19th Apr 22 g carbs led to 100 g gain the next morning, then 100 g loss the following day
5th May 27 g carbs led to 200 g loss the next morning (but I was still a kilo heavier than the week before).
Other macros were pretty good on all of those.
Every other day since 23rd Jan has averaged around 12g carbs. I don't even know how many carbs are required for a carb-loading day!
Fully agree with all you've said, including 'what's the game plan'. I've no idea.wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »@GrannyMayOz Whooo. I've thought about that too. Dare we? Feels like jumping off a cliff. Without a parachute. But hey, at this point I'll try anything. Desperation demands action. What's the game plan?
Yes please!!!!!wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »Any savvy smart people want to advise us?
Our diaries are both open
myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/wheatlessgirl66
myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/GrannyMayOz
if anyone could be kind enough to suggest what macros we should aim for on our C-L day?
I've had a few higher carb days with the following results.
10th Mar 23 g carbs led to 100 g gain then 200 g gain over the next 2 days
13th Mar 22 g carbs led to no change next day
14th Mar 30 g carbs led to 100 g gain then 200g gain over the next 2 days
12th Apr 29 g carbs led to 300 g loss the next morning (back to equal lowest weight of 9th Apr) but 700 g gain the following day
19th Apr 22 g carbs led to 100 g gain the next morning, then 100 g loss the following day
5th May 27 g carbs led to 200 g loss the next morning (but I was still a kilo heavier than the week before).
Other macros were pretty good on all of those.
Every other day since 23rd Jan has averaged around 12g carbs. I don't even know how many carbs are required for a carb-loading day!
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Sorry if this is indelicate to ask, but do I remember correctly that you're both postmenopausal? Also, referring back to your dairy thread, it looks like you were discussing a high-CALORIE day rather than a high-CARB day?
Hopefully the MD who was monitoring us a bit will chime in, but you might both consider pulling out all the stops to decrease cortisol levels.- For example, low-intensity exercise (e.g., walks instead of jogs)
- Meditation or yoga
- Increasing calories by a bit -- try a small incremental increase weekly, for example
- Keeping carbs above the GNG level of about 40g/d
Edit: GMO, I also recall you mentioning something about staying up late at night. Any way you can try switching to a more normal sleep cycle for a while?0 -
Speaking for myself, yes, I'm postmenopausal. An increase of carbs to 40g/d would definitely increase calories unless you mean that we should lower protein and/or fat. I actually meant to increase them a couple of weeks ago, but got scared and changed them back. I sometimes walk and use a recumbent bicycle, both low-intensity--I have fibromyalgia. When you say increase calories by a bit, does that mean 100, 200?
Last week I asked my doctor about my cortisol levels. She just said she didn't think I had a cortisol problem. I think I probably do.
Thanks, Wabmester.0 -
Going from 20g to 40g carbs adds 80 calories a day if you change nothing else, so try just that for a while and see how it goes. To increase calories further while holding carb levels constant, increase fat.
You don't want to make any drastic changes, but you want to give it enough time to see what effect it has. Keep increasing calories by a small amount, say that same 80 cal, each week or so to experiment.
Don't focus too much on daily scale changes because those are so heavily influenced by water weight.0 -
@wabmester oh poor you! No, not indelicate at all, sorry to make you feel uncomfortable, and yes, post menopausal for sure. I truly have no idea if it’s high calorie or high carb I want. Whatever works best to shake things up
Yes I can walk for a while instead of jog. Hubby has a bakers cyst behind his left knee at the moment so I’ve been having to jog alone anyway. As to the hours I keep. David works from around 3pm until midnight or 1am and has been on this shift for 6 years now. Because I don’t work I like to be up to greet him when he comes home. I find that it takes me about a week to slowly change my personal timezone to that which is normal for everyone around me so I think my circadian rhythm is happy where I am. I get 8 good solid hours sleep, sometimes 9 or even 10 if we’ve had a few short nights, and our room is completely blacked out so I’m not woken by the light.
So increase my carbs to 40g, accepting the calorie gain that produces and leave fat and protein as they are. Sounds OK. And yes, @Wheatless and I are nothing if not patient so I’m sure we’ll stick it out for a while and see ‘what gives’.
Thank you so much for helping!
I'm finishing today on 980 calories and 1 g carbs for the day - that's not a good start
I'll go have another coffee with coconut milk to push me over the thousand ha ha! And no, I don't do this often. Only my third time ever around the 1,000 calories and carbs are usually 15 or so grams.
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That calorie level sounds too low to me, but focus on one thing at a time. I know you both are working hard at this, and your frustration level must be high. Your belief in the evil of carbs is justified, but really the body seems to thrive in the 40-120g/d range. The level that needs to be avoided is in excess of that, especially in an environment of excess calorie consumption.
One other thing -- spread those carbs through-out the day and make them "good" carbs. Nuts, berries, and chocolate are probably my main sources. Mostly chocolate.
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I usually aim for 1450 calories and eat around that, or 1350 ish. It's past midnight so I've gone in an adjusted my macro goals for the morning (can't say tomorrow because it is tomorrow already).
Mmmm chocolate. I have some 72% dark Ghana in the pantry and I love nuts. I have some frozen raspberries... It's sounding better by the moment And I hear you on spreading it out. Thank you @wabmester 0 -
I used the keto calculator to set my macros with 40 carbs.
1433 kcal Daily Calorie Intake
40 g Carbohydrates (11%, 160 kcal)
82 g Protein (23%, 328 kcal)
105 g Fat (66%, 945 kcal)
I got as close as I can get when I set the goals in MFP.
I'm using the lowest protein suggestion for sedentary and the most fat I can get with a 20% deficit. If I raise the deficit, the fat goes down. Should I do that, or should I lower the protein? I'm 5'3" and 219.4 lbs. Thank you!
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Not a good idea to lower protein -- it helps maintain your muscle mass, and muscles are metabolically active.
The "high fat" aspect of LCHF is primarily aimed at high ketone production. That seems to help keep hunger in control, but ultimately you want the fat to come from your adipose and not as much from food. So it's fine to lower fat a bit as long as your hunger stays under control.0 -
Good to know, Wabmester. Thanks.0
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Cross posting from the Five Days Dairy Free thread...
It looks *really* odd seeing a 40 in my carb goal column instead of the <15 that it's had in there since January, but here goes. Probably going to have to buy some sweet potato or rice, which will thrill David to bits, he's been missing them. Or maybe extra onion, capsicum (peppers) and tomato. Have been limiting onion to half a small one for so long ha ha!
Oh and I had butter yesterday, as well as a decent night's sleep after 3 that were a bit short. Back down 500 grams (1.1 lbs) of the weight I'd gained in the past 2 weeks. Was it the sleep? Was it the continuing lack of cheese and cream? Was it the addition of the butter? Far too many options, and to reproduce each in turn... well, life's too short even for this statistics-lover
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Goodness this is confusing. Trial and error. My carbs have been low but had some cake the other day, think a carb boost now and again may kick start a loss - fingers crossed. Been dairy free, apart from butter since Wednesday.
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It really is trial and error and, when you find The Answer, it's only about a week until the rules change again.
Has dairy free resulted in anything positive for you @Risi?
Hoping we both have a lovely big loss in the morning @Wheatless - or even a tiny one, but let's think positive. For now I just want to get back to the 82.4 kgs that was my lowest on 27th April. I don't mind holding at a new low weight for a while, but putting on a whole kilo and staying there for a week isn't very encouraging. I know us older ladies need patience and I'm happy to give that. I'll post again in the morning to report on my first higher cal/carb day eeeek!0 -
Yep, trial and error seems to be the prevailing method. It would be lovely to hit on the thing the makes it work, but it seems so random and illusive. Sometimes I feel more patient; other times I want it to happen RIGHT NOW!
Hope you wake to a nice loss, May. I didn't gain, so that's a plus. 0 -
I'm watching this thread with interest! I, too, am post menopausal and have many, many pounds to lose. I had a tremendous and abrupt slow down for several weeks and was frustrated as I'm sure you gals are. Looking at my diary, macros, food choices, everything on paper looked great. Finally, after about 5-6 weeks of minimal loss, a lightbulb came on. Somewhere along the way I had reverted to that old mindset of "5-6 small meals a day to keep your metabolism stoked." I'd nibble on small stuff all day, an egg here, some bacon there, here a cheese stick, there a ham roll up. While it kept my numbers all fine, each time I ate I was releasing insulin. I also realized I was a lot hungrier than I had ever been on this woe. When I went back to eating proper meals (all the same nibbles I'd been eating just combined into a meal) my hunger diminished and lo and behold the scale started moving again. I started back this way roughly 2-3 weeks ago and I've finally since Tuesday, after starting in January, found that "oh, I forgot to eat because I'm not hungry" feeling! I don't know how long it will last, but I'm loving the change. I hope maybe this helps you girls the way someone posting the insulin spike lit my lightbulb! Never know who can benefit from your experience, but there's always someone who can. Good luck with the carb loading, I'll be watching!0
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Thanks for the tip, @Mimilucious--we welcome all input. So good you realized the thing that was holding up your losses. Our experiment will definitely be interesting, and I hope it has the intended effect. 0
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@Mimilucious, that's an interesting thought. I don't often pick but do notice it makes me hungrier on days I'm a nibbler. Gonna keep that in mind.
Edited to correct spelling!0 -
I know very little about menopause (if fact, I learned WAY more than I wanted to know with a quick read), but there were a few things that struck me about it:
- you often gain weight (similar to high cortisol)
- the weight gained is often in the tummy (similar to high cortisol)
- and the reduction of estrogen appears to reduce your ability to regulate cortisol
So while I also know very little about cortisol, it seems worth a shot to attempt to reduce it. It's definitely a shot in the dark, but I'm rooting for you!0 -
Thank you @Mimilucious as Wheatless said, all input is helpful so that we can think it through. I usually have my main meal between noon and 1pm and then another meal between 6.30 and 9pm according to when I'm hungry. I'm alone for the second meal so I can please myself. If I'm hungry again around midnight (still 1 or 2 hours to bed time) I will usually have about 3 nuts or a small serve of pepperoni or something. Tonight it will be more than that because my fat for the day is way too low - as are my calories if I'm supposed to be having 1550. I used to be a serial nibbler/grazer, *constantly* eating, and am so glad to see the back of that! I'm really happy to read of the success you've had. Knowing it's possible is a huge help.
@wabmester thank you for your interesting thoughts (and for being brave enough to research something you didn't want to know LOL It's not that scary Now I'll go look up cortisol and reduction methods... 0 -
I found this list of symptoms if you have too much cortisol lissarankin.com/10-signs-you-have-way-too-much-cortisol and have to say that I'm fine. The only one that applied to me currently, and then very, very mild, is the anxiety one. In my past life obviously the weight gain, craving unhealthy foods, gastro problems and *mega* anxiety were all true, but not any more.
*May does a happy dance*0 -
http://www.metaboliceffect.com/menopause-weight-gain/
The message I would take from this article is that your ability to control cortisol is reduced, so even if you're not feeling all the effects, it may be sabotaging your efforts to lose weight.0 -
That's a really thought-provoking article @Wabmester, thank you. And of course my exercise regime has been all wrong, as you already suggested recently. But I love huffing and puffing LOL I will try to do the nice, grandmotherly walks instead. I feel that I am doing the right things with my diet at least. Does she *know* how much sugar there is in an apple? 'low sweet fruit' indeed.0
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GrannyMayOz wrote: »I found this list of symptoms if you have too much cortisol lissarankin.com/10-signs-you-have-way-too-much-cortisol and have to say that I'm fine. The only one that applied to me currently, and then very, very mild, is the anxiety one. In my past life obviously the weight gain, craving unhealthy foods, gastro problems and *mega* anxiety were all true, but not any more.
*May does a happy dance*
Uh oh. Does 7 out of 10 count?
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http://www.metaboliceffect.com/menopause-weight-gain/
The message I would take from this article is that your ability to control cortisol is reduced, so even if you're not feeling all the effects, it may be sabotaging your efforts to lose weight.
Pretty sure she's talkin' about me. Some of the suggestions I already have in place, but need to do better on others.
Hah. And my doctor doesn't think I have any cortisol issues. *shakes head in frustration*
Thank you, @Wabmester. You're being very helpful and I appreciate it. 0 -
GrannyMayOz wrote: »That's a really thought-provoking article @Wabmester, thank you. And of course my exercise regime has been all wrong, as you already suggested recently. But I love huffing and puffing LOL I will try to do the nice, grandmotherly walks instead. I feel that I am doing the right things with my diet at least. Does she *know* how much sugar there is in an apple? 'low sweet fruit' indeed.
About the apples--exactly. I love apples but dropped them like a hot potato the second I saw the carb count. Sheesh. I wish they were low carb. I've had trouble sneaking berries in.0 -
Eeeeek 7 out of 10 Wheatless? Oh. I'm guessing that does count
Cross-posting from the 'Dairy Free' thread...
And my weight report for this morning is down 100 grams (.2 of a lb). Yesterdays macros were C43 F92 P69 calories 1283. So fat was lower than my 123g goal and calories were a lot lower than my 1550 goal, but it was the first day of change. After all the weight gains I've had between 14th Apr and 5th May, I've actually been down 3 out of the last 4 days. ˅200, stayed the same, ˅500, ˅100. So it's possible that the 'dairy free except for butter' has had a positive effect, and it's definite that the higher carbs for 24 hours have not set me back. That's all I know for a fact at the moment
I still have 300g to go in order to equal my lowest-to-date-weight of 82.4 kgs / 181 lbs, which happened on 27th Apr. And perhaps I should point out that that hadn't been a sudden or massive drop, I'd inched my way down to it through hard work, not jamminess
[Being 'jammy' is a British term for undeserved fortune, and is normally pronounced in the brief sentence 'Jammy git!'.]0 -
I'm so happy for your loss May! (Now that sounds strange, doesn't it!) I like seeing your analytical mind at work trying to figure out the whys and wherefores of the ups and downs. Without a doubt; overweight women of our age don't lose weight through jamminess of any sort! (But I like the word!)
This is interesting: I'm also down this morning---.6 lb after two days of moderately higher carbs. I also finished an antibiotic two days ago that had digestive implications that are getting better. The weight was up before the antibiotic, though, so I'm hoping it was more the increase in carbs/calories that triggered the loss. I hope it stays away!
I hope, hope, hope this jostling of carbs/calories reminds our bodies that they're supposed to be doing the job of burning fat and better get to it! Pronto!
Gotta get control of this cortisol thing!0 -
LOL Wheatless - it does sound strange I'm very happy for yours too, and hope it stays gone! It is possible the antibiotics have had an effect of some description isn't it? So many variables.
Today I'm 200g heavier than yesterday but I ate a 20 gram milk chocolate frog yesterday, because it was given to me as a Mothers Day gift and it fit my macros. Hmmm there's a slippery slope if I choose to do it!!!! And today *is* Mothers Day and my boys and grandies are coming. I've bought the biscuits (cookies) for afternoon tea, so of course I don't have to eat those, but if my daughter-in-law brings something she's made (likely will!) I will have a small taste.
I ate as close to all my macro and calorie goals as it's possible to get yesterday.
First we have to go and visit my mother. She's a piece of work, but I make sure never ever to be alone with her these days so she has to behave herself and it should be fine. Even when she does try her hurtful tactics I usually find them amusing these days because she fails so badly it's laughable. I am no longer a helpless child who became a helpless adult because she'd been trained so well
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Just so this can't be so easy, I'm also up today--.8 lb--which is .2 more than I lost yesterday. I'm just going to ignore it and go on my merry way.
I did pretty well yesterday, but just a tad off kilter between macros and calories. My husband made popcorn last night while we watched a movie. It smelled so good, but I didn't touch it. I'm amused at how virtuous my resistance made me feel.
I admire your ability to visit your mother without letting her tactics harm you. Mother/daughter relationships can be wonderful, but they can also be one of the saddest things on earth. When my mother died, I mourned not so much for her, but for the relationship with her that I longed for but never had. It's so, so good that we're not passing the ugliness on toward our own children.
Enjoy your DIL's Mother's Day treat! All pleasure, no guilt. 0 -
Maybe we'll have a loss tomorrow dear Wheatless. If I had a magic wand I'd make it so that we knew what to do to lose weight and keep it off. I wouldn't magic the fat away because walking the necessary steps is a good thing. But just knowing *what* to do... *sigh*
Well done on not eating the popcorn, particularly when it smelled appealing! And so you should feel virtuous - that's exactly how you deserve to feel! My D-I-L didn't bring anything to eat, but part of my gift was 6 squares of fudge which was one of my top-most favourite substances until January this year. I actually think I will still love it. I intend to eat it a quarter of a square every couple of days.
And yes to the sadness. I think when mine goes, I will only be sad for what could have been. I have no sisters or daughters so my first truly loving relationships with females have been with my 2 precious granddaughters. Words just can't express how much I love those 2. I have a feeling that mother is determined to outlive me, and has sold her soul to the devil in order to do so (ROFL) so I might never experience the freedom of being without the obligation that being a daughter brings.0 -
With all this talk of fudge and milk chocolate, you're making me feel guilty for mentioning chocolate. I meant DARK chocolate. Almost pure cacao. That other stuff is evil candy. 0
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