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When do you start feeling great on Keto?
CoconuttyMummy
Posts: 685 Member
When do the tiredness, aches, weakness & general grottiness subside after embarking on a Keto diet?
I was fairly lowish carb for 3 months prior to starting keto almost a week ago, around 50-60g a day, and now im on 15g or lower.
Im just wondering, should i still be feeling cr@ppy like this? Is it 'normal'? I mean, when can i expect to get all this energy everyone raves about?
I was fairly lowish carb for 3 months prior to starting keto almost a week ago, around 50-60g a day, and now im on 15g or lower.
Im just wondering, should i still be feeling cr@ppy like this? Is it 'normal'? I mean, when can i expect to get all this energy everyone raves about?
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It's normal to feel like crap if your sodium intake is too low.0
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I've been adding extra table salt to my food (im still waiting on some himalayan pink salt from amazon), and im taking magnesium & potassium pills.
How long does it take to start feeling good on keto in general from when you 1st start on very low carbs (15/20g or below)?
Should i ordinarily feel the wellness and energy boost 6 days in, or is it still early days in general?0 -
If your electrolytes are good, you should feel pretty good quickly. The calming brain effects happen within days. The "energy" is partly from the brain effects, but the actual energy to power muscles takes about 3 weeks to adapt, and exercise may speed that up.
Adding salt to your food may not be enough. Salt is about 40% sodium. 4 good shakes of salt is less than 200mg. You need 1000-2000mg EXTRA per day to offset the loss in your urine.0 -
I see. It's actually physical lethargy, muscle weakness, aches & tiredness that's bothering me much more than mental tiredness, so that makes sense then. I guess ive got another 2 weeks to go before my muscles stop aching a few steps up the stairs.0
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If adding salt to food isnt enough how else do you aquire sodium?0
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Pickles for me. Soups and broth for others. I eat sodium as needed. I feel like crap if I'm low. A pickle or two brings me INSTANT relief.
If you didn't get enough sodium, your body will start wasting potassium, and that can lead to muscle aches. The supplements typically don't have a lot of potassium. Eat an avocado or two.
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I use lite salt for the potassium, chicken broth for the sodium, and take a magnesium supplement. The chicken broth tastes like chicken noodle soup without the noodles, which is a taste i really like, so i never tried the pickles that others like 0
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It's important to audition different boullion cubes to find one you actually like. Don't try one and think that because you didn't like it that all broth cubes will be similarly terrible. I also like olives and capers for quick, salty pick-me-ups. Don't underestimate the power of bacon.
Getting the electrolyte thing sorted will make you feel ever so much better.0 -
Thanks all. I'll hit the bacon at lunch. Like i need an excuse?! Im on BPC with half a scoop protein powder for breakfast b/c im useless in a morning and need something quick, easy, ketogenic, tasty & filling. It seems to tick all the boxes at the moment - hope its not too unhealthy.0
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Well its definitely NOT lack of electrolytes that's making me feel so tired, weak and achey - yesterday and today ive had 2 huge mugs of chicken stock with extra salt added just to make sure!, and ive been taking potassium and magnesium supplements, so really it is not that.
I felt amazing on 50g or less of carbs a day on a Primal diet including plenty of veg and the odd bit of fruit, and quite honestly i feel like death on this bloody keto diet. Im getting quite disillusioned to be honest. I have a 3 year old son who i care for all day single-handedly - i just cannot afford to feel this rough for much longer. The house is a mess because i simply dont have the energy to tidy. Less than half way up the stairs my legs start burningand i literally have to haul myself up. My back aches constantly and just lifting my son takes all of my strength and has me nearly falling over. What the hell is happening?! I wasnt like this before i went keto.
I know its early days (6 days in at 15g or below/5% carbs) but the sounds of it everyone else was bouncing around feeling great at this point.
And do you know the worst of it? - Im suffering through all of this and the scale is just not moving! Arrrrrrrggghhhh!
Im on a calorie deficit of only 360 cals, eating 1200 cals a day, as MFP will not allow me to set my cals any lower and frankly im constantly hungry and physically exhausted as it is (i wasnt when eating a bit higher carbs & Primal), so i couldnt function on any less calories. Granted, id hit a stall for 3 weeks prior to embarking on keto, hence why i changed my macros to try and kickstart weightloss again, but.... NOTHING! Not even a pound for God's sakes!
Honestly im seriously peed off right now. I just cant understand what im doing wrong and why my body isnt getting ANY positive effects from keto, other than waking up 3 hours earlier (and frankly i could have done without that as im still tired but just cant sleep anymore).
Even if i just bend down to pick something up my heart starts hammering in my chest from the exertion. What the heck?! I mean i wasnt fit by any means before but i think i could manage bending down or climbing a few stairs without feeling like i just scaled Mount Everest.
I keep thinking "tomorrow i will feel like a regular 34 yr old, not a 94yr old, but nope, 'tomorrow' is now here and i am still feeling like total crap. What gives?!!!0 -
I'm feeling similar, though I don't think I've been in the Keto range for as long as you have. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but I wonder if eating more than 1200 calories a day might help you get over the hump. If you're only getting 15g carbs a day and you add some overall calories, maybe you can go up to 20g carbs and get some relief (filling the rest in with mostly fat, some protein)?
I overate my calorie budget by about 150 calories yesterday. I still have a bit of a headache this morning, but I'm not fatigued. The scale did tick up slightly, but my inches ticked down slightly, too. I'm not over the hump yet, and definitely haven't found the energy pot of gold at the end of the Keto rainbow.
Best of luck! I know the frustration you're feeling, and how impossible it feels when you're Mom and always on duty--not feeling well is pretty awful in that scenario. I have a 10-month-old, a 4-year-old and a soon to be 6-year-old.
Hopefully the Keto pros on here can give you some pointers. I'd like to know what to do, beyond electrolytes, too! _Virgo_ pointed to me to Reddit to read up on Keto. I haven't gotten there yet, but it's worth a shot.0 -
I would say firstly that it doesn't appear that you're eating enough, which might explain the lack of energy.
Secondly, keto isn't for everyone. If you were feeling good and doing well eating primally then maybe you should keep doing that for a while.
Don't get too caught up in what everyone else is doing. You need to figure out what works for you.0 -
It took me about 3-4 weeks to feel better when I first started with 20 grams.
I personally think you need to up your calories and stop being hungry. Eat more food and drink water until you can drink no more!
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Thank Mlinton, its nice to know its not just me that feel so grotty. I meant to reply to one of your posts where you said youd been in a bad mood and shouted at your kids more than youd like. Well, ive been exactly the same. Frankly, im in a stinking mood and slightly bad behaviour from my 3 year old is seeing me go off the deep end and really scold him more than i normally would. Frankly i feel like braining someone - or banging my head against something hard, repeatedly. Im so angry that i should feel like death and still not be losing ANY weight. Arrgghhhhh!
Id be nervous about increasing my daily cals as im not losing as it is, especially with my calorie deficit being so small (im really short so it doesnt give me many cals to play with. I cant quite understand why i feel practically malnourished and so ravenously hungry on only a 360 calorie deficit. So much for fats being satiating. Give me a nice crunchy apple or a carrot and im satisfied. Give me a 200 calorie shot of pure fat and i feel like ive had nothing to eat. Why oh why is this not working for me?
I'll stick with it for 2 more weeks, in the hope that im feeling like this because im not yet fat adapted (apparently that takes 3 weeks?), but i cant allow myself to feel like this much longer with no positive results. I trully hope a miracle happens soon and the scale starts going down and my energy levels up like theyre SUPPOSED to do! (*cries*).0 -
Coco~~
I am 1200 cals/day, too. The experts suggest some type of broth with salt in it. As the low carb is diuretic, you may be losing a few of your electrolytes. Perhaps a cup or 2 of bouillon my be helpful. You may not be getting enough salt by adding table salt. Dr. Eric Westman of Duke says not to worry about the salt.
You may want to watch him on youtube. Excellent talk about Low carb
Now if you are in congestive heart failure or untreated high blood pressure, that may be different.
HTH
Pedi0 -
Hi Pedi,
Unfortunately its definitely not electrolytes because i drank 2 half-pint mugs of bouillon made with 2 chicken stock cubes plus added table salt to make sure i had all the sodium in the world, plus ive been on magnesium supplements for 3 months and i started my potassium supplement yesterday, and i drink a ton of black coffee and other liquids, soooo dehydration and low electrolytes are out.......
Can some people just not adapt to keto well? I hear so many success stories and astounding claims regards keto (lose a pound a day anyone?) but i dont seem to be getting any benefits at all.... yet.
Seriously i wish i could just know for sure if this diet doesnt suit me so i can move on and start feeling right again, but im desperate to lose the last 20 pounds and i cant help but think "tomorrow my body will have got used to keto and im not going to feel hungry and im going to have bundles of energy and the pounds will start falling off and and and...
Am i kidding myself?
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Coconutty, I'm currently hanging out between 30-70g carbs, so not necessarily in ketosis, but feeling fabulous. Some people don't adapt well. You might also try upping your calories, at least temporarily, while you're transitioning. Eat more fat (adding a cup of tea with heavy cream at the end of the day is a nice way to do it) and don't let yourself get hungry.
This calculator is actually designed for keto: http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
The MFP calculator isn't designed for keto, and IMO, should not be trusted for anything.
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Hey, just my two cents. Maybe it was too much too fast? I am sure I would feel like garbage too if I jumped into 15g or less per day. I don't even want to know what that feels like at this point, because right now 40g is hard enough for me to hit. I felt weak with that when I first started, and I finally seem to be gaining some energy back.
Also I don't count calories. It's made things a lot easier with this WOE. My body has known what it's doing for quite some time now and I'm tired of overriding the system. I think I would lose my mind on 1200 calories. I was at 1400 and losing my mind. Now I've been trending over 2000 daily and my weight has been staying down, and hopefully on the way down I read all the stuff on the LCHF launchpad, which further convinced me I need to forget about calories right now.
^^ I'm not saying you should do what I do, but I think we can agree 1200 cals and 15g of carbs isn't doing you any favors. Consider upping your calories or even upping your carbs for the time being. It all seems to be trial and error on an individual level... that's kind of why I love this WOE so much.0 -
Oh Coco, sorry about your struggles. How about upping the carbs a wee bit to maybe 30-40 and then slowly going back down to 20? Kind of a gentler transition?0
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thanks all. I'll hit the bacon at lunch. Like i need an excuse?! Im on BPC with half a scoop protein powder for breakfast b/c im useless in a morning and need something quick, easy, ketogenic, tasty & filling. It seems to tick all the boxes at the moment - hope its not too unhealthy.
Other than your carb level, have your eating habits changed since you were paleo? That doesn't sound like a very paleo-style breakfast to me. Try eating real foods, and try eating more carbs if the lower level doesn't work for you.
There are physiological difference between 15g and 50g carbs. Not so much in terms of ketosis, but more in terms of protein catabolism and perhaps cortisol levels.0 -
I agree with both of you that it appears my body is crying out for more carbs, more calories or both, hence it would make sense for me to raise them a little, especially as i too felt fabulous on 30g-70g (averaging 50g) carbs.
BUT i want to make sure ive really given my body ample time to try adjusting to keto before i essentially
give in. I would feel a failure if i upped my carbs at this early stage.
Im reluctant to up my calories too, because, as mentioned, im only on a 360 calorie deficit as it as, eating 1200 cals a day, which should apparently only give me a 0.7 pound per week loss, so id be basically eating at maintenance cals if increased, which wouldnt lose me anything, so id be doing keto and sending myself crazy for no benefit.
I guess all i can do is stick with it for a minimum total of 1 month to give my body plenty of time to get keto-adapted, which will hopefully cause all these nasty side effects to cease. If i still feel awful after that time period then definitely i will just have to accept that keto is not for me i suppose.
What is spurring me on to continue putting myself through feeling like this is the realisation that we are all human - im not a different species or special in any way - so surely the positive effects everyone else gets on keto HAVE to come to me too, surely? We're all basically the same machine, so isnt it safe to presume that we will all react the same to keto eventually?
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I very much relate to what you're going through right now, but I think you may be suffering from what all of us humans tend to do to ourselves sometimes: the Sunk Cost Fallacy. You've invested time, effort and suffering into going Keto. As of today, it has been a week of effort. This is on top of the effort you've invested in going low carb and losing weight already. You're finding yourself up against a wall, and rather than backing up and re-evaluating, you have a strong psychological incentive to stay the course; to keep banging your head against that wall. We ALL do this from time to time, and I admire your tenacity. It's great in many contexts. I've beat my head against a wall like that more times than I can count.
But sometimes it is time to back up and re-evaluate, even if it means taking a few (minor, I hope) short term losses.
There's a range of carbs that would still keep you in ketosis (or on the way there, right, since you may not have fully adapted yet.) A lot of folks on this thread are suggesting 30g per day. Maybe instead of averaging 30-70g (50g average), you can focus on nailing 30g per day. Which would probably buy you a green salad at the least, and perhaps along with it some relief. Or you can give yourself a more generous calorie allowance for a few days. Or both.
I hope this comes across as a gentle suggestion. My husband and I have been married for ten years, and we're still trying to figure out the right way to tell each other when we're beating our heads against a wall.0 -
I'd hate to say this, but keto and low carb aren't for everybody. Your expectations are coming from people who have lost a lot of weight on keto. Many of those people started out obese. From your stats, I take it that you're not obese.
Ketones suppress hunger. Not everybody has a hunger problem. And for those who do, the carb levels you were eating on paleo are usually low enough to get that benefit.
There is no magic fat-burning bullet with keto. It simply reduces insulin and grehlin, which are both VERY useful benefits for a large number of people, but not for everybody.0 -
I've read numerous sources that suggest that you throw calorie counting out the window and eat to satiety when you are first getting into ketosis. Giving your body all the extra things it needs to make the transition is just easier on your system and your sanity. Really, in the grand scheme of things, is a week of eating to fullness going to derail you all that much? No. And you'll likely hit the transition point much faster.
Also, what sort of potassium supplements are we talking here? The pills are rubbish, they give you something like 100mg and you need to be hitting at least 2,800mg a day, and then maybe 1000mg on top of that because of the flushing that can happen with ketosis. Your symptoms are just screaming low potassium. It took me about a week of scary racing heart episodes and burning muscles and achiness and generally feeling awful before I managed to get my potassium up enough to make a difference. You've got a one up on me because I was also trying to catch up on magnesium as well, since you need the magnesium to make use of the potassium. Big bowls of ground beef based recipes helped me, as well as high potassium vegetables, all doused in low-salt for added potassium. I ate to fullness, which sometimes meant a half pound of ground beef, sometimes more, sometimes much less, depending on hunger. When I was eating like this, what do you know, I absolutely never went over my calculated TDEE. Sometimes the body knows best.
The first time I tried to do low carb about 15 years ago I was an absolute wreck and I felt awful all the time, and I stuck at it for two months, dragging myself around and feeling terrible, gaining several pounds and just crying all the time because I had no idea what to do with myself before I finally abandoned it. Now that I've been through it successfully, I know that feeling is DEFINITELY related to electrolytes. I know it's time to look at mine whenever I get any little symptoms resembling it, and what do you know, I'm usually way under on my salt for that day, or short on potassium or I've forgotten a magnesium pill or two (which makes me less able to absorb potassium, so really, it's all about the K).
I really want to see you succeed, because you are definitely working hard for it.
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CoconuttyMummy wrote: »Thanks all. I'll hit the bacon at lunch. Like i need an excuse?! Im on BPC with half a scoop protein powder for breakfast b/c im useless in a morning and need something quick, easy, ketogenic, tasty & filling. It seems to tick all the boxes at the moment - hope its not too unhealthy.
Other than your carb level, have your eating habits changed since you were paleo? That doesn't sound like a very paleo-style breakfast to me. Try eating real foods, and try eating more carbs if the lower level doesn't work for you.
There are physiological difference between 15g and 50g carbs. Not so much in terms of ketosis, but more in terms of protein catabolism and perhaps cortisol levels.
Yup, my eating habits have changed a lot since going keto. I used to eat lots of veg and a little fruit and i now eat practically no veg and no fruit. I didnt drink BPC before going keto, but since dropping my carbs really low i just havent had the energy to cook or prepare food for breakfast - i feel so tired and hungry i need some immediate and easy calories to get me started and BPC seemed to fit the bill, but you're right, its really not filling me so i should be eating real food instead.
I know this sounds lame but since going keto i cant seem to think straight, so whereas before i could easily think up interesting meals to fit my macros now im in a mental fog and cant find any inspiration for a keto meal.
This woe is so alien to me. Ive always been low to medium fat at the most and more carbs so the ingredients i would have used before are out and ingredients i avoided are in. Its a whole new learning curve and my brain isnt functioning at high enough capacity to be inspired. Dinners are easier, as i tend to do meat or fish and a creamy or cheesy sauce, but ive got a mindblock with breakfasts and lunches.
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mlinton_mesapark wrote: »I very much relate to what you're going through right now, but I think you may be suffering from what all of us humans tend to do to ourselves sometimes: the Sunk Cost Fallacy. You've invested time, effort and suffering into going Keto. As of today, it has been a week of effort. This is on top of the effort you've invested in going low carb and losing weight already. You're finding yourself up against a wall, and rather than backing up and re-evaluating, you have a strong psychological incentive to stay the course; to keep banging your head against that wall. We ALL do this from time to time, and I admire your tenacity. It's great in many contexts. I've beat my head against a wall like that more times than I can count.
But sometimes it is time to back up and re-evaluate, even if it means taking a few (minor, I hope) short term losses.
There's a range of carbs that would still keep you in ketosis (or on the way there, right, since you may not have fully adapted yet.) A lot of folks on this thread are suggesting 30g per day. Maybe instead of averaging 30-70g (50g average), you can focus on nailing 30g per day. Which would probably buy you a green salad at the least, and perhaps along with it some relief. Or you can give yourself a more generous calorie allowance for a few days. Or both.
I hope this comes across as a gentle suggestion. My husband and I have been married for ten years, and we're still trying to figure out the right way to tell each other when we're beating our heads against a wall.
A gentle suggestion that was well received, for sure. I really do appreciate the kind advice and guidance (from everyone here - thankyou all), particularly at a time where i cant seem to be able to see the wood for the trees.
If i dont start to feel better in the next few days (there goes my reluctance to 'give in' again) i will definitely raise my carbs a little, but keep my calories to 1200 or below, as i do believe that the basis of weightloss is a simple energy in vs energy out concept. I like your idea of hitting for 30g carbs a day. That does seem like a reasonable figure and i know i didnt feel bad at those levels of carbs (although i wasnt losing weight either). That will be my plan then.... sit it out a little longer just to be 100% sure that ive done everything i possibly can to succeed on a keto diet, and if i still feel awful then raise my carbs to 30g/day.
Thanks again Mlinton, i feel better knowing i have a definite plan!
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I hear you on the alien diet, but it doesn't have to be. I never did BPC or fat bombs. My carbs come mostly from veggies, nuts, and chocolate. For protein and fat, you can do a lot with eggs, meat, and cheese. I'm basically paleo without the starch.
(Caveat: my floating carb level gives me the flexibility to eat fruit, sushi, and pho when I get the urge, so I don't do hard-core keto.)0 -
First thing I always tell people. DO NOT COUNT CALORIES DURING ADAPTION. It will make you crazy, miserable, and you will quite. Your body REQUIRES extra calories to convert your internal engine AND it requires extra calories to repair any body damage you have. Trying to continue to count calories is a vote of no faith. "I'm going to switch to Keto, but I really don't think it will work, so I'm going to still keep my calorie count exactly the same because if it won't work, at least I won't get worse." Except by not following the key tenets of helping your body to adapt, YOU ARE THE ONE MAKING YOUR SYMPTOMS WORSE... I'm not saying you won't ever count calories, because that is still necessary for most... but right now, you're holding yourself back.
The other thing I just want to mention. This way of eating requires patience. Monumental levels of patience. You MUST give things 6 weeks to work. If you don't, you're shooting yourself in the foot before you start. If you can't be patient, changing to this WOE is not for you. Period.0 -
AreteAndWhimsy wrote: »I've read numerous sources that suggest that you throw calorie counting out the window and eat to satiety when you are first getting into ketosis. Giving your body all the extra things it needs to make the transition is just easier on your system and your sanity. Really, in the grand scheme of things, is a week of eating to fullness going to derail you all that much? No. And you'll likely hit the transition point much faster.
Also, what sort of potassium supplements are we talking here? The pills are rubbish, they give you something like 100mg and you need to be hitting at least 2,800mg a day, and then maybe 1000mg on top of that because of the flushing that can happen with ketosis. Your symptoms are just screaming low potassium. It took me about a week of scary racing heart episodes and burning muscles and achiness and generally feeling awful before I managed to get my potassium up enough to make a difference. You've got a one up on me because I was also trying to catch up on magnesium as well, since you need the magnesium to make use of the potassium. Big bowls of ground beef based recipes helped me, as well as high potassium vegetables, all doused in low-salt for added potassium. I ate to fullness, which sometimes meant a half pound of ground beef, sometimes more, sometimes much less, depending on hunger. When I was eating like this, what do you know, I absolutely never went over my calculated TDEE. Sometimes the body knows best.
The first time I tried to do low carb about 15 years ago I was an absolute wreck and I felt awful all the time, and I stuck at it for two months, dragging myself around and feeling terrible, gaining several pounds and just crying all the time because I had no idea what to do with myself before I finally abandoned it. Now that I've been through it successfully, I know that feeling is DEFINITELY related to electrolytes. I know it's time to look at mine whenever I get any little symptoms resembling it, and what do you know, I'm usually way under on my salt for that day, or short on potassium or I've forgotten a magnesium pill or two (which makes me less able to absorb potassium, so really, it's all about the K).
I really want to see you succeed, because you are definitely working hard for it.
You know what, you guys really are lovely!. Thanks for taking the time to write - its so comforting to feel support from those who have already been there n done that.
I know ive been adamant that my symptoms cant possibly be an electrolyte imbalance, but i had no idea how much potassium you actually needed, i just presumed that because i was taking supplements i could possibly be deficient, but woah - 2,800mg-3,800mg is wayyyyy more potassium than im getting for sure! My potassium supplement only contains 200mg and ive been taking 4 a day, so thats a grand total of 800mg potassium. WTF?! Why make supplements that are so darn weak? Im going to see if i can find a much stronger one right now.
Whilst im at it, what are the optimum levels of sodium and magnesium intake on keto? My magnesium tablets are 400mg each and i take two a day. Am i acquiring sufficient magnesium do you think?
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This discussion has been closed.