Coffee & mould toxins
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CoconuttyMummy
Posts: 685 Member
So ive been reading the Bulletproof Diet and learning that some coffees can have mould toxins, in varying amounts, some worse than others.
I simply cant afford his upgraded coffee beans (£20 a pouch?! Erm.. dont THINK so! Especially not with the gallons of coffee i drink a day. I could barely afford to drink a cup a day at those prices and that is not happening!).
Soo, apparently the deal with finding a low mould toxin coffee on the common market is simply trial and error. Low mould toxins will make you feel clear headed, energetic, alert, feeling good and 'clean', whereas high mould toxin coffees may give you an inital lift but will lead to a subsequent crash and/or headaches/drowsiness/brainfog/generally feeling yack... (and i stress "apparently").
My questions are
1). Do you believe there to be any truth in these claims, or is it likely to be a marketing scam for the BulletProof guy to cash in on hugely overpriced coffee beans? (in your opinion).
2). Have you noticed any cleaner effects from certain coffees?
3). What is your favorite coffee? Why?
I bought 5 different coffees yesterday, just common brands from the supermarket, but the better quality stuff - 3 whole-bean instants of varying brands and 2 different ground beans for a cafetiere. I intend to drink each one exclusively for a whole day at 1st (and thats between 6 and 8 cups for me, so will give me a good idea!) and im going to monitor the effects, if any, in comparison to my usual brand.
Im doing this because despite consuming all that caffeine every day i struggle with lack of energy, tiredness, brainfogs, headaches, aches & pains etc, all of which are supposedly symptoms of these mould toxins, so i figured it was worth a try to see if a) this is true and b) if a 'cleaner' coffee bean is available on the general market at a reasonable price.
I simply cant afford his upgraded coffee beans (£20 a pouch?! Erm.. dont THINK so! Especially not with the gallons of coffee i drink a day. I could barely afford to drink a cup a day at those prices and that is not happening!).
Soo, apparently the deal with finding a low mould toxin coffee on the common market is simply trial and error. Low mould toxins will make you feel clear headed, energetic, alert, feeling good and 'clean', whereas high mould toxin coffees may give you an inital lift but will lead to a subsequent crash and/or headaches/drowsiness/brainfog/generally feeling yack... (and i stress "apparently").
My questions are
1). Do you believe there to be any truth in these claims, or is it likely to be a marketing scam for the BulletProof guy to cash in on hugely overpriced coffee beans? (in your opinion).
2). Have you noticed any cleaner effects from certain coffees?
3). What is your favorite coffee? Why?
I bought 5 different coffees yesterday, just common brands from the supermarket, but the better quality stuff - 3 whole-bean instants of varying brands and 2 different ground beans for a cafetiere. I intend to drink each one exclusively for a whole day at 1st (and thats between 6 and 8 cups for me, so will give me a good idea!) and im going to monitor the effects, if any, in comparison to my usual brand.
Im doing this because despite consuming all that caffeine every day i struggle with lack of energy, tiredness, brainfogs, headaches, aches & pains etc, all of which are supposedly symptoms of these mould toxins, so i figured it was worth a try to see if a) this is true and b) if a 'cleaner' coffee bean is available on the general market at a reasonable price.
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Replies
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I'll be interested to see what you find. And then miffed that I can't buy the best-result brand in Oz probably LOL0
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Following. My current circumstances dictate buying the cheapest coffee I can find (which is usually Folgers), but I've been considering trying the actual Bulletproof Coffee the next time I have some extra cash lying around. I have noticed that with this WOE and with making my cheap coffee "bulletproof" (adding coconut oil and butter) I require much much less coffee than I used to. I was a pot-a-day drinker (at least 8 cups before getting to work, and then another couple travel mugs full at the office), but now I'm just fine on a 4-cup pot or less--so I could probably swing the Bulletproof brand now that I don't drink as much.0
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I didn't drink coffee until just a few years ago because Dad, the only coffee drinker in the house, drank Folger's and it tasted nasty to me.
I now, on the advice of several friends, drink Kick A s s coffee. Lovely and mellow, not bitter and burned.0 -
Joe Rogan called out Dave Asprey over this claim... you can have a look and decide for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwY4H3cNTH0 0 -
Former Caribou Coffee barista here. The whole mold thing comes across to me as a bit of snake oil salesmanship. A long time ago, when it took inordinate amounts of time (and money) to get fresh coffee beans, the presence of molds could be a quality control issue. But beans are kept much fresher these days, are shipped faster, and the whole roasting process is much more highly controlled. This applies as much to Folgers as to fancier label coffees. Something like 80% to 90% of any mold on green coffee beans are killed off during the roasting process, and there was never any proof that the amount present prior to roasting would have any affect on a person in any case. As far as I'm concerned, coffee should be a beverage of the people, so the Bulletproof Exec can keep his fancy elitist coffee to himself.
The reason something like Folgers tastes (subjectively) less good is simply because it is less fresh. If you have all kinds of time and money on your hands, you can buy green beans and roast them yourself. But that is for the hobbyist coffee drinker, not the sort of person who just wants to get the job done in the morning. Moreover, there is so much variation in water temperature, water quality, brewing method, etc., that you can go crazy messing with variables.
For my money, I think Gevalia is the best coffee I've tasted from a store bought bag. Usually stills smells pretty fresh, and is even better if you buy whole bean and grind your own. Very smooth. We used to use the little one cup plastic Miletta pour over thing you can buy in the grocery store. We recently upgraded to an 8 cup pour over from Target. Still tastes good.
Cheers!0 -
I used to love to drink "real" coffee and teas, but I have lately been relegated to drinking Keurig at home and Flavia at work. I know, I've tried to find a K-cup or pouch that somewhat resembled the taste of real coffee. Even tried Starbucks Sumatra K-cup, but it just tastes like burnt swill, but yet I persist with this One-Shot approach to quench my morning fix. I would love to know the quality/mold factors in these products. There is probably more mold issues with the machines that "brew" these concoctions and toxins with the BPA from the plastic cups, than there is with a fresh ground coffee bean. (Not to mention how bad for the environment these are.). Sigh..
That said, Keurig did put out this statement for whatever it's worth. And Hey, it's FDA approved, so it must be OK! LOL.
“K-Cup® and Vue® packs do not contain BPA and are constructed using FDA-approved food safe materials. We also use FDA-approved food safe materials in our K-Cup® and Vue® brewing systems, and neither system contains BPA within its water paths (as of January 1, 2010 for our K-Cup® system).”0 -
ChairmanWow wrote: »Former Caribou Coffee barista here. The whole mold thing comes across to me as a bit of snake oil salesmanship. A long time ago, when it took inordinate amounts of time (and money) to get fresh coffee beans, the presence of molds could be a quality control issue. But beans are kept much fresher these days, are shipped faster, and the whole roasting process is much more highly controlled. This applies as much to Folgers as to fancier label coffees. Something like 80% to 90% of any mold on green coffee beans are killed off during the roasting process, and there was never any proof that the amount present prior to roasting would have any affect on a person in any case. As far as I'm concerned, coffee should be a beverage of the people, so the Bulletproof Exec can keep his fancy elitist coffee to himself.
The reason something like Folgers tastes (subjectively) less good is simply because it is less fresh. If you have all kinds of time and money on your hands, you can buy green beans and roast them yourself. But that is for the hobbyist coffee drinker, not the sort of person who just wants to get the job done in the morning. Moreover, there is so much variation in water temperature, water quality, brewing method, etc., that you can go crazy messing with variables.
For my money, I think Gevalia is the best coffee I've tasted from a store bought bag. Usually stills smells pretty fresh, and is even better if you buy whole bean and grind your own. Very smooth. We used to use the little one cup plastic Miletta pour over thing you can buy in the grocery store. We recently upgraded to an 8 cup pour over from Target. Still tastes good.
Cheers!
This makes sense to me and is somewhat of a relief, as i hate to think im missing out on some super duper clean-burning fuel or feeding my system mold toxins that are slowing me down and making me sick. Im going to go with your gut instinct and satisfy myself that Upgraded Bulletproof Coffee Beans at £20+ a bag are more than likely not going to give me any more energy or make me feel any 'cleaner' than regular coffee. Im pretty much content to leave his beans alone for now
I'll still go about testing all the coffees i can easily get my hands on to see if i feel any noticeable differences in how they effect me, but something occurred to me: im in the UK and i think most of you guys are in the US (and Oz?:) , so the brands of my coffees may be meaningless to you all. In that regard there wouldnt be much point in me reporting any findings (IF i find any, over and above just taste).
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We (in Oz) have Moccona, Maxwell House, Nescafe in the instant range that I either remember from when I was in the UK, or have seen British ads for so I'd still be interested in your results. Our 'pod coffees' are largely Italian so I suspect we'd have the same brands of those too. Vittoria is the only one that springs to mind. And there are plunger coffees as well. Whole beans seem to be more of a gourmet shop thing now, yet we used to buy them in the supermarket, and some shops had their own bean grinder you could use for free.
This site does seem to be populated by about 80% Americans, I was surprised. It's a good opportunity for us all to learn about other cultures, words and spellings lol0 -
This is a pretty good article on the matter -- http://authoritynutrition.com/the-mycotoxins-in-coffee-myth/
Basically, it says, that yes, coffee in general often tests positive when the beans are still green, but the act of roasting reduces the (already small) toxin amount by 65-90%. Additionally, we're exposed to various toxins by simply breathing that it's basically a drop in the bucket compared to other exposure methods (personally, I don't see that as "so it's okay," but rather that if you want to look to reduce toxins of any sort in your life, you're better off finding these avenues of larger exposure and doing what you can there).
Personally, I do think the quality of the coffee matters on a number of fronts and I definitely favor local/artisan roasters over the big brand names like Folger's, but that's more for quality of taste and whatnot than anything to do with toxins.0 -
slimzandra wrote: »I used to love to drink "real" coffee and teas, but I have lately been relegated to drinking Keurig at home and Flavia at work. I know, I've tried to find a K-cup or pouch that somewhat resembled the taste of real coffee. Even tried Starbucks Sumatra K-cup, but it just tastes like burnt swill, but yet I persist with this One-Shot approach to quench my morning fix. I would love to know the quality/mold factors in these products. There is probably more mold issues with the machines that "brew" these concoctions and toxins with the BPA from the plastic cups, than there is with a fresh ground coffee bean. (Not to mention how bad for the environment these are.). Sigh..
That said, Keurig did put out this statement for whatever it's worth. And Hey, it's FDA approved, so it must be OK! LOL.
“K-Cup® and Vue® packs do not contain BPA and are constructed using FDA-approved food safe materials. We also use FDA-approved food safe materials in our K-Cup® and Vue® brewing systems, and neither system contains BPA within its water paths (as of January 1, 2010 for our K-Cup® system).”
FYI - you can do any coffee you want in the Keurig through the refillable cups. There are a ton on the market for the K1 machines, and we at my company have found the refillable ones you can use in the K2 machines (as long as it isn't the one that can fill a carafe). So it is a little messy, but if you want to grind your own coffee or fill it (the site for the cups we uncovered has a grinder that can do one k-cup worth at a time and comes with a free cup), it's worth the options.
I don't know what a Flavia is, so I can't suggest anything there...0 -
I buy plain old Maxwell house and when I make BFC that's what I use. Occasionally I'll spring for the fair trade stuff because I like the concept, but usually I can't afford it.0
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A little bit of toxins is GOOD for you! It makes you stronger by activating your defense and repair systems.
Seriously, even in the toxic waste dump of Chernobyl, life is thriving. I have a family member who is a physical chemist. He runs a small nuclear reactor, and he recommends getting small doses of radiation to ensure you trigger DNA repair mechanisms. (I forgot to mention that he might be slightly crazy.) 0 -
A little bit of toxins is GOOD for you! It makes you stronger by activating your defense and repair systems.
Seriously, even in the toxic waste dump of Chernobyl, life is thriving. I have a family member who is a physical chemist. He runs a small nuclear reactor, and he recommends getting small doses of radiation to ensure you trigger DNA repair mechanisms. (I forgot to mention that he might be slightly crazy.)
I used to work with a pathologist who refused to wash his coffee cup because he was "building his immune system." Presumably his profession means he's smart about these things, but the rest of us thought he was a bit crazy, too.0 -
Right, well, unscientific as this 'experiment' is, i shall proceed.
Today i tested Carte Noir Wholebean Instant. Taste-wise it was just about acceptable but not great, though thats not what this 'trial' was about so i wouldnt let that necessarily put me off. I noticed i felt nicely alert and clear headed after my 1st mug, but as the day wore on and i had 6 large mugs more throughout the day (told you i was a coffee fiend!) my all too common headachey, tired, achey, energy-less feelings descended and by 5pm i was flat and worn out. This was definitely not a day i felt full of clean energy, so there is nothing 'upgraded' about this particular coffee imo. This one is a fail for me. I would not repurchase.0 -
BPC (the original) always striked me as a very clever marketing plot. I briefly considered ordering some just to see what all the fuss was but the price tag and my bulsh*t sensor have so far prevented it.
Before LCHF I didn't have real coffee often, my coffee-like drink was cereal "coffee" (a mix of burnt grains, but hey it was all organic! OMG!). After I changed my woe, this concoction started to taste bad and give me digestive issues so I changed to real coffee. I drink it with coconut oil, no butter. I use a plunger and then an immersion blender. Sometimes I add cream, sometimes a pinch of cinnamon. The quality of the coffee is important but the way it is prepared can ruin even the best coffee.
I don't drink a lot (one, maybe two cups a day) and I usually buy it from a shop that sells nothing but coffee, tea and chocolate and has done it for the last hundred years or so (best smelling shop in the world). I choose the beans/mix I want, they roast/grind them there and I take the coffee with me. The price varies a lot with the beans but (except for the higher end coffees) it is not very different from a good supermarket brand, and it tastes MUCH better. Plus you get to try different beans/roasts and the staff is very knowledgeable and knows what to suggest based on what you want.
My mother makes the most exquisite coffee using freshly ground beans and a double glass balloon slowly heated. It is a very festive event, takes very long and is very, very good. Not sure how easy it is to find the whole thing, that one was my grandmother's. One of my sisters has a very shiny Italian style machine that spits an undrinkable bitter potion that to me, tastes like poison... but is supposed to be very good.
So, I don't even know why I rambled so much, there's not a lot of food left for me to be excited about, I guess. LOL. Best of luck in your quest and keep us posted! 0 -
ChairmanWow wrote: »Former Caribou Coffee barista here. The whole mold thing comes across to me as a bit of snake oil salesmanship.
^^^ this!
I know two local importers / roasters of organic / fair trade beans, one of which was bringing in "fair trade" beans long before it became a thing, and have had many opportunities to spend time in their businesses and talk shop, beans, quality, competition, and the "big" guys. If you are concerned at all buy freshly roasted beans from a local roaster of good repute and you are going to be getting great product. They'll have a variety of types available to suit almost any taste.
One pound of beans ($15-17 Canadian) lasts my wife and I roughly a week; I grind up some beans for my wife to take to work for her pour-over maker, the rest stay at home (I have a home office) with me.
Grinding beans fresh in the morning is a highlight -- I would not give up that smell for anything even if they could somehow keep decent coffee sitting in a can for weeks or months on end as fresh.
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Haha, not rambling at all Ketogirl - i love a good chat
I wish we had a beautiful coffee shop like yours in our area. Im stuck with Starbucks or the supermarket.
I love my loaded coffee or Rocket Fuel Latte 1st thing for breakfast, but after that i drink my 6-8 large cups black, sweetened with liquid sucralose (i know, i know, i probably shouldnt be using artificial sweetener but i could never drink coffee black AND unsweetened - thats even too hardcore for me!) Drinking it black is certainly not a taste choice (theres nothing i like more than a really creamy/milky coffee) but the amount i drink i just cant fit in all the calories (and carbs) from using milk/cream. Even adding unsweetened Almond Milk (which does a pretty poor job of milkifying coffee to me - its not creamy enough to make much of a flavor difference imo - was adding a stupid amount of carbs to my small daily allowance, making it tough to make good food choices - so when i went keto i went black. ( What is it they say?.... Once youve had black you'll never turn back?!.. errm... not sure thats true LOL).
See, now im rambling!
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There has never been a Starbucks in my entire state, nor the neighbouring 2 states. Seems strange to me, but then Perth really is backwards for the size of it.
Hubby used to drink drip coffee. 3 builder's mugs before work, a large thermos of it for work and then as many as he could fit in after he came home. We now drink instant half the time, and pod machine the other half. He has his black and I have mine with coconut milk, which I find nice and creamy.0 -
@CoconuttyMummy if your problem with unsweetened black coffee is it being bitter, try a milder roast (sometimes the bitter comes from roasting to Italian taste, not the coffee beans used) and go for arabica beans, they're usually sweeter than robusta. Most brands have a mix of both types of beans but to look for arabica is a good rule of thumb to start sorting those available to you and the label should clearly show what beans were used and in what percentage.0
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A little bit of toxins is GOOD for you! It makes you stronger by activating your defense and repair systems.
Seriously, even in the toxic waste dump of Chernobyl, life is thriving. I have a family member who is a physical chemist. He runs a small nuclear reactor, and he recommends getting small doses of radiation to ensure you trigger DNA repair mechanisms. (I forgot to mention that he might be slightly crazy.)
I dont think mould toxins are good for you in any amounts, by the sounds of it, but as Dragonwolf pointed out we are exposed to toxins on a daily basis just by breathing (and thats one thing im NOT planning to give up anytime soon!). However, like Dragonwolf also said, just b/c we're being contaminated with toxins from other sources all the time it doesnt mean im happy to lean back and think "well my coffee might be poisoning me a little bit, but hell im getting poisoned elsewhere, so i'll just keep drinking and not worry about THAT particular bit of poison" (bit melodramatic & poorly phrased, but you know what i mean). Just because there are worse things out there for our health doesnt make it ok for me to potentially knowingly contribute to that. I figure even baby-steps in the direction of health improvements are worthwhile, so im really interested in trying to eliminate ANYTHING that may have a negative impact on health or wellbeing. Little changes for the better can really add up.
I dont know if im likely to find this holy grail of 'clean' mold-free coffee, or even if id be aware if i did, but its worth a shot. At the very worst i'll discover which of all the coffees available to me tastes the best. I'm hopeful that one of them will make me feel noticeably fresher though.
The other coffees i'll be trying over the next few days are Kenko Millicano Wholebean Instant Dark Roast, Nescafe Azera Espresso (another wholebean instant type affair), Nescafe Espresso (instant)... and then switching to some ground roasted beans for the cafetiere (french press is it called in the US?), starting with Taylors Hot Lava Java and Illy Espresso. (I went with 6 different coffees to try this week. Next week i'll choose several more)
So tomorrow, i'll be testing the Kenko Millicano WholeBean Instant Dark Roast. We'll see how that compares to the Carte Noir wholebean instant i tried today.
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