Need help. Gaining weight like crazy.

msjeep
msjeep Posts: 29 Member
edited November 17 in Social Groups
My journey started July 2010 when I hit a high of 380 lbs. That's when I started to get control of what I was eating. The basic theory at that time was to try to cut down on fat intake and reduce calories and get more active. By Oct 2012 I was down to 270 lbs 40% BF. I was also doing Primal Blueprint approach and lowering my carbs. Generally to around 100 grams. Six months earlier I had my gall bladder removed and then had a pulmonary embolism which slowed me down a bit. July 2013 after getting off of blood thinners I had DVT (blood clots) in both legs and a bad hip acting up. My weight was still in the 270's and not budging. I was eating approx. 1600 cal +/- all this time. June of 2014 I had a hip replacement and my weight had been increasing up to 290 lbs at this time. I hit 293 lbs in Nov 2014 when I started looking for answers. My main oversize is walking and using the weight machines. After a couple years of lifing(have to use the machines cause I have an abdominal hernia) I wasn't getting any stronger. So with no strength increase and gaining weight while keeping my calories around 1600 I figured my metabolism maybe messed up. That's when I found this group. I started to increase my calories in Dec 2014 from 1600 to about 2400 calories gradually. My weight has gone from 293lbs 42% to 317 lbs 46% BF today.
Here are my particulars:
Age: 59
Height: 5'-10"
male
............. Scooby............ MyFitness Calculator (similar to IIFYM)
BMR..... 2532 ...............2035 (using 46% BF)
TDEE.... 3481 ...............2798

My Fitbit daily burn has been avg between 3000-3400 cal. I generally workout 2-3X per week for an hour at the gyn on the machines. I enter the workout on Fitbit instead of relying on steps. I avg about 6000 steps per day walking.

Right now I feel like dropping my calories back down. My son who just became a physical trainer and pursuing a masters degree in exercise science says "they" recommend going down to 1500 cal. That worked for me for a couple of years but then I started to increase my weight at that level. It seems my BMR is operating at a much lower level still.

Any thoughts???

Mark

Replies

  • losingitseattle
    losingitseattle Posts: 90 Member
    Do you weigh/measure your food? How often do you eat out? In addition to the strength 3x per week, would you consider adding a daily 10 minute walk 2x per day everyday with a goal of increasing that?
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    I weigh and measure all of my food. It's a habit now for the past four years. I hardly ever to never eat out. Try to stay away from processed food if possible. With my hip replacement and the other hip showing signs that it maybe wearing out keeps me at about 6000 steps per day. Sometimes I will hit 10,000 steps when I walk my dog in nice weather or doing some walking challenges but it does wear on me. The increased weight is also causing problems in the ankles that I had not had at the lower weight. Mathematically I should have been losing around 2 lbs per week since summer of 2010 which means I should have lost 416 lbs by now. Right now my net is only 63 lbs. Metabolism must be using the new math :)
  • losingitseattle
    losingitseattle Posts: 90 Member
    That's why I mentioned breaking it up into 2 10 minute segments. I've seen my mom go slow but eventually get up to 6 miles at once. She started at just a few minutes, a few times a day. Do you have thyroid issues? How are you measuring body fat?

    Also, try reading through this older thread. Some folks suggest trying to eat at TDEE -30% for short blocks of time (4-6 weeks) and then pushing back up to TDEE-20% for the same...alternating essentially.

    I don't agree with the recommendation to go to 1500 calories personally. I've been a fitness instructor for 10 years and I've rarely seen that work for anyone. I'm 5'4", 143 lbs and I can lose on 1800-1900 a day, 1 lb a week with 5-6 hours a week of exercise. I am hungry on 1500 calories a day!!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    So indeed, you have raised calories up to a level that would have been according to Fitbit about a 30% deficit.

    Which for amount to lose is actually reasonable for now. You have more severe health issues that requires the weight to be gone, and your body is stressed out from that of course.

    I'd suggest that weight gain is probably a combo of each increase in calories was a surplus in eating over your then existing suppressed TDEE. At least for some time each increase. The other is water weight I'm sure.

    Now - you can only suppress TDEE so much, studies have shown upwards of 20%, sometimes 25% in extreme cases.
    You eating about 50% deficit with health issues may have qualified as extreme.

    So if Fitbit is correct (good job on manually logging what needs to be) on potential TDEE (not suppressed it would have no clue about), then 2400 could have become your new suppressed TDEE.

    But you were eating 1600, lets say very accurate since weighing all food. You still should have lost almost 2 lbs weekly during that time.

    So either Fitbit is very off on potential TDEE, or calories from exercise is badly inflated, so your TDEE really isn't that much. So the suppression brought it lower than 2400.
    Still should have been a weight loss.

    But now, you are getting to the point where constantly elevated cortisol can cause water retention, upwards of 20 lbs. And that could mask fat loss really going on.

    But indeed, a suppressed body isn't going to make much in the way of improvements from exercise that require even more calories when already suppressing to conserve them.

    I'd suggest your body is still massively stressed from big diet you had, carrying the extra weight, health issues, perhaps lack of sleep, life, ect.

    You won't like the suggestion probably, but hear it out.

    Eat 250 more daily for 2 weeks.
    Even if your TDEE was suppressed to 2400 from let's assume accurate Fitbit giving potential burn figures, and that 250 was truly surplus for 2 whole weeks, body never speeding up - you should only gain 1 lb.
    And doing the lifting - not even fat weight.
    Reread that.

    I'm hoping that the 250 extra is enough of a stress relief, your body will drop some water weight in traditional whoosh. I'm sure you've got some edema going on somewhere. A stiff drink of the hard stuff can help some. Not beer.

    Try to make the workouts during that 2 weeks really good. Machines that work the major big muscles first, if limited by time, even if not actually. So biceps and triceps last. Quads, hammies, glutes, chest, back, shoulders all around, calves, then biceps & triceps.
    You want rep range of 8-12 reps if not doing that, rests from 2-4 minutes, as heavy as you can go for 3 sets. Try not to do it circuit style with brief rests and light weight, you don't need the extra calorie burn to increase your eating level, it's high enough.

    Don't use the TDEE tables with rough levels and you guessing which is right - use the device giving you infinite levels.
    Now, more about Fitbit, they are using a BMR similar to Mifflin for all non-moving calorie burn. It does NOT scale well the more fat you have to carry, though it is much better than Harris. So that could be inflated there.
    With that body fat % estimate you have (I'd average those results BTW), you could see what the Katch BMR formula says on Scooby's site for BMR reading (forget the TDEE, still use Fitbit). That's going to underestimate the more fat you have actually, opposite of Mifflin BMR formula. An average of the 2 would be better.

    That base calorie burn is then used to determine calorie burn based on distance walked/ran, which of course is based on steps and your stride length stat.
    So the start to accuracy would be - did you manually input a stride length?
    Because I can almost guarantee the formula they use for height and gender won't be accurate for you right now.
    I think you are getting inflated calorie burn there.
    Once distance is down right, and that BMR figure has been tweaked on their site to a better figure (by changing height on Fitbit), I think you might see some difference for the potential TDEE they show.

    And again, that's potential, because I'm sure you have suppressed yours to probably the biggest degree you can.

    For your son, see if his classes are keeping up on newer research. Many don't.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i_cmltmQ6A

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/heybales/view/reduced-metabolism-tdee-beyond-expected-from-weight-loss-616251

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1077746-starvation-mode-adaptive-thermogenesis-and-weight-loss

    Sorry about the stream of consciousness above, burned 3000 on long bike ride, and pizza is ready, and starting to get hungry again. Even if not - my brain knows I better eat if I intend to run tomorrow.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Ahhhhhh, better now.

    Mifflin BMR and likely close to Fitbit BMR being used - 2259
    Katch BMR using 46% - 2047

    Wow, I was wrong, usually a bigger difference than that. 212 not that much, especially if you split the difference and make it 106.

    Now - is that BIA scale? Which may have the ability to be consistent, but is unlikely to have the ability to be accurate more than 5% at best, and closer to 10% usually. So it could be 41 - 51% likely. In which case 1892 Katch BMR, and 367 difference is more what I've seen, and would be a noticeable difference.
    A bunch of other methods of getting BF% wight be useful if possible to get an average of all of them.

    Anyway, using 46% at least, height on Fitbit could be changed to 51.8 inches, and that would cause it to use a BMR figure that is an average of your BMR/RMR calculated by BF%.

    So indeed, less calorie burn.

    Correct the stride length per the instructions in here, and it'll probably be less again. Keep eating 2400 just because, and get another week or two of average daily burns from Fitbit to see what the new average potential TDEE is.
    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10098937/faq-syncing-logging-food-exercise-calorie-adjustments-activity-levels-accuracy

    Then take off the 25% I'll bet you are suppressed by, and eat at that level for a bit, see if weight doesn't stabilize with no more gaining. Or losing.

    Then do the 2 week 250 test from there.

    Your desire is to get body to speed up daily burn, back up to potential. Going slow enough to not gain any more weight, even water weight. Not good for ya right now, I know.

  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    edited May 2015
    Thanks for responding heybales. Don't have the time to fully digest your info right now but here is some info you asked about. BF was from hand held Omron. A bathroom Weight Watchers scale is generally lower by a few percent. I had entered my stride manually on Fitbit. I just redid it cause my stride is not what it use to be so I knocked an inch off. When I enter the weight lifting calories burned it is higher than the Fitbit says but not all that much higher. It's about 281 cal/hr 2-3 times per week from the "Weight lifting (free, nautilus or universal-type), light or moderate effort, light workout, general". My son needs to lose weight too and is training with a trainer for a Spartan Race. That sports trainer told him 1500-1900 cal at least for the short term. He's about 340 lbs but a lot more solid than me for sure. Just as I'm finishing he told me he is now following IIFYM and going with something around 2800 cal.
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    "
    heybales wrote: »
    Ahhhhhh, better now.

    Mifflin BMR and likely close to Fitbit BMR being used - 2259
    Katch BMR using 46% - 2047

    Wow, I was wrong, usually a bigger difference than that. 212 not that much, especially if you split the difference and make it 106.

    Now - is that BIA scale? Which may have the ability to be consistent, but is unlikely to have the ability to be accurate more than 5% at best, and closer to 10% usually. So it could be 41 - 51% likely. In which case 1892 Katch BMR, and 367 difference is more what I've seen, and would be a noticeable difference.
    A bunch of other methods of getting BF% wight be useful if possible to get an average of all of them.

    Anyway, using 46% at least, height on Fitbit could be changed to 51.8 inches, and that would cause it to use a BMR figure that is an average of your BMR/RMR calculated by BF%.

    So indeed, less calorie burn.

    Correct the stride length per the instructions in here, and it'll probably be less again. Keep eating 2400 just because, and get another week or two of average daily burns from Fitbit to see what the new average potential TDEE is.
    http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10098937/faq-syncing-logging-food-exercise-calorie-adjustments-activity-levels-accuracy

    Then take off the 25% I'll bet you are suppressed by, and eat at that level for a bit, see if weight doesn't stabilize with no more gaining. Or losing.

    Then do the 2 week 250 test from there.

    Your desire is to get body to speed up daily burn, back up to potential. Going slow enough to not gain any more weight, even water weight. Not good for ya right now, I know.

    heybales: After you recommend keep eating at 2400 you say
    "Then take off the 25% I'll bet you are suppressed by, and eat at that level for a bit, see if weight doesn't stabilize with no more gaining. Or losing.

    Then do the 2 week 250 test from there."

    Are you saying take 25% off of 2400 giving me a calorie goal of 1800 ?
  • MandaLeigh123
    MandaLeigh123 Posts: 351 Member
    I think that is indeed what he means. That's how I read it.
  • leooftheyear
    leooftheyear Posts: 429 Member
    i read it as take the 25% from the average fitbit burns.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Well, almost.

    Eat at 2400 (possible suppressed TDEE) until you have some new adjusted stats from the Fitbit to work with for potential TDEE - so 2 weeks at least.

    Then the new Fitbit potential TDEE, take off 20-25% for the suppression you have. That could end up right at 2400 again. Or not. I'm betting less. But not 1800 either.

    Then eat whatever that is until weight is stabilized.

    Then the 2 week 250 test.

  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    Got it. Thanks
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    Here is a summary:
    Started July 2010 at my heaviest at 380 lbs
    Date ... Wt.lbs ... Cal burned ... Cal Eated
    9/2012 ... 269 ... 3225 ... 1600
    9/2013 ... 273 ... 2898 ... 1780
    9/2014 ... 285 ... 3010 ... 1705
    10/2014... 290 ... 2982 ... 1743
    12/2014 ... 295 ... 3040 ... 1858 Started EM2WL
    1/2015 ... 299 ... 3043 ... 2295
    2/2015 ... 305.6 ... 3071 ... 2278
    3/2015 ... 309 ... 3058 ... 2432
    4/2015... 313.4 ... 3259 ... 2478
    5/2015 ... 316.5 ... 3108 ... 2305 changed Fitbit height per Heybales
    6/2015 ... 316 ... 2887 ... 2188
    6/28/15... 318.2
    Waiting to see where my weight is going by the end of the week. A little nervous cause I have seen daily spikes upto 320 lbs.

  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    Those are monthly averages that I have listed.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    So good job keeping that eating goal about 20% off the Fitbit TDEE.

    I could see a rolling 2 week average of Fitbit stats to determine the next weeks TDEE, knock 20% off for suppressed TDEE.

    But it does appear you can eat that high and not gaining fat weight, just water weight.

    I am concerned though, because in your case the weight being carried is a stress, and potentially adding on more water weight won't help.

    That's almost a 600 cal spread between suppressed and potential.

    That would take about 3 weeks if you attempted to eat 200 extra daily for a week at a time.

    Would you be able to add that many calories with what you are trying to eat, to your diet?

    And would you be able to keep exercise as purely full-body resistance training so you burn little extra, so as not to increase TDEE even more?

    I'm wondering since you are already in the what is hopefully the max suppressed state - if it might not be beneficial for the about 150 lbs to lose, to take 75 off in the suppressed state.
    Yes, skipping the increase to potential TDEE and reset at this time, at this weight.
    Dieters edema can be a vicious cycle, and really don't want to get caught in that loop, if you aren't already almost.
    At that future time with only 75 lbs to lose, much less load on your system, and potential TDEE is lower.
    And then at that time, spend some weeks working your way up to potential TDEE eating level, and do your reset at that point.

    If you do resistance training the whole time losing 75 lbs, your ability to increase calories and the body using it for good, will be incredible. And as a male, your ability to increase metabolism is much better.

    So suggesting, if it appears from your testing that you do appear to be suppressed by about 20% (would be better to know what closer %), then it might be useful for long term health of joints and future exercise to get a good part of the weight off first.

    So taking 20% off suppressed TDEE figure, and eating that.
    So for example, lets say your 2200 is suppressed TDEE.
    That would make 1760 be eating goal, 20% deficit from 150 - 125 lbs left (if correct weight range).
    And each 25 lbs lost, you lower the deficit by 5%.
    15% deficit 125 - 100 lbs left.
    10% deficit 100 - 75 lbs left.

    Then you eat at suppressed TDEE for couple weeks. That 20% off what Fitbit reports your TDEE as.
    Then start increasing on weekly bases the daily eating goal until you are eating at Fitbit TDEE. Should be less than 600 cal difference at that point, with 75lbs lost.
    Then you reset for however long you think is needed. Again, men with our hormones adjust better usually, but a month might be useful still.

    Then you take a normal reasonable deficit for the last 75 lbs left.
    20% for 75 - 50 lbs left.
    15% for 50 - 15 lbs left.
    10% for 15 - goal weight.

    During both periods of time, you take a diet break week and eat at suppressed TDEE during first range, potential TDEE from Fitbit during second range. About every 6- 8 weeks, if you can match it up with something that makes that enjoyable to not diet.

    Or go with orginal plan, and increase about the 600 cal to potential TDEE right now, reset for however long, and then take reasonable deficit.

    And reasonable for first 25 lbs would be 30% at this point.
    But again keep dropping the % per 25 lb block until at 15% and ride that out.

    Resistance training so needed either way. Machines likely at first. Confirm proper usage so good joint protection.
    Good program to progressively overload.
  • MandaLeigh123
    MandaLeigh123 Posts: 351 Member
    heybales wrote: »
    I'm wondering since you are already in the what is hopefully the max suppressed state - if it might not be beneficial for the about 150 lbs to lose, to take 75 off in the suppressed state.
    Yes, skipping the increase to potential TDEE and reset at this time, at this weight.

    I was thinking this might be a good idea as well. Certainly having a suppressed TDEE isn't ideal but since you have a way to go with your weight loss, it might be better for your body systems (joints, heart, respiratory system, etc) to shed some of the weight first and focus on precisely fixing the metabolism later?

    You posted your initial question on May 9th, so that means you've been increasing calories for around 8 weeks. I wonder if it's been long enough that you can you use your suppressed TDEE and take a cut and begin to lose weight again.

    I think it's amazing that you are determined to stick with it, even through these health struggles and diet uncertainty. A lot of people give up, but you are sticking with it and you'll be better for it in the end!

    I understand about your struggles with lower body injuries. It makes it very difficult to get in more exercise without compromising yourself. I struggle with my knees/hips/si joints so I feel your pain (literally). There are actually a lot of exercises out there for us with lower body issues, where you don't have to move the bottom at all. I will share a couple, but if you want to look for your own. Try searching "workouts you can do in bed" or "workouts you can do while sitting". I would NOT replace your gym time with these, it's good to keep moving. But if you want to increase exercise, without increasing movement in lower body, you can try these. Once the weight comes off, all activities should hurt less, that's the hope anyway, right? :) As my muscles get stronger, my joints do ache less and I am able to do more. My pain will most likely never go away though, so just like you, we've got to learn to make it work.

    For cardio, try "Upper Body Cardio Quickie". I haven't tried this in awhile, but even as of three months ago, this was pretty hard for me and I workout a lot. Your supposed to do each exercise three minutes, then switch. Instead, I would do each exercise one minute, and did it for three rounds!:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nuAamk4zck
    or something like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xC9khisFPA

    Seated resistance band exercises for strength. Resistance bands are an affordable way to add more strength. You can often find resistance bands/dumbbells at garage sales. That's how I have padded out some of my weight equipment at home.
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/503698-resistant-band-exercises-for-sitting-down/



  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    I'm on my way to a funeral right now so I just wanted to make this quick comment. I started increasing calories on Dec 6, not May 9 when I posed my question. So I have many more weeks at this increase. So eating at 1760 level makes a lot of sense to me.
  • MandaLeigh123
    MandaLeigh123 Posts: 351 Member
    I see :) that's great! When you have a chance, take a look at some of the workouts I posted if you are interested in increasing activity levels at all.
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    I saw my surgeon regarding my hernia. He wants me to loose more fat first cause if he patches up the current opening the fat is just going to break thru somewhere else. Said to check back in 6 months. He did say I can do regular free weight exercises. I have started doing some light dead lifts, lunges and crunches. Going slow regardless of what he said just to make sure. Going to tackle my legs and back more aggressively now. The big muscle groups for sure.
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    edited July 2015
    Update since starting my cut from my suppressed TDEE. Target is 1760 daily calories.
    Weekly daily avg. except wt.

    Date......Weight.....Fitbit cal.....Cal Eaten.....avg steps
    6/27......318.2......2795..........2259...........6191
    7/4........317.7......2874..........1969...........6053
    7/11......316.........2753..........1760...........5695
    7/18......315.5......2930..........1895...........6634
    7/25......315.1......2917..........1861...........6904

    Fitbit (One) calories include manually entered weight lifting, avg 3 hrs wkly
    My macros are roughly 40(Fat) 30(carbs) 30(protein) +/- 5
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    So 5 wk avg Fitbit TDEE 2854, call that potential.

    2854 - 20% suppressed = TDEE 2283, call that estimated suppressed.

    Avg eaten 1871 during the adjusted last 4 weeks. I'm guessing by Cal Eaten on that date, you mean the average daily for week leading up to that date.

    3.1 lbs x 3500 / 28 days = 388 cal deficit in place, except for any water retained issues you are dealing with.

    Ate 1871 + 388 deficit = 2259 implied TDEE.

    Compared to 2283 estimated suppressed.

    Pretty _______ close, if I do say so.

    So after you have lost say 10 lbs, I'd pick out the 3 most recent normal weeks of average Fitbit TDEE figures, which should lower as weight goes down, except you may walk faster to compensate.
    Anyway, 3 week average of Fitbit TDEE x 0.8 = suppressed TDEE estimate.

    Suppressed TDEE x 0.8 = target eating calories.

    Excellent results, especially because I'm betting body made some improvements from the exercise during this time.
    You measuring several places yet to see changes?

    And for my own reminder here too when looking at this a month down the road, at the 30 lb adjustment mark (or 25), change to 15% deficit.

    Are joints and swelling doing any better yet?

    Weights lifted improving?
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    Hi Heybales, thanks for responding. You provide a great service. While I was increasing my calories my strength finally started going up after a couple years of being stagnant. My inches went up too. I just took some measurements today which is only 2.5 wks since my last ones which peaked. They are not much different today. It is difficult to get a consistent waste measurement due to the excess fat. Regarding my strength. I am still lifting at the higher weights but since my cut I think I have stalled. I am starting to incorporate some dead lifting (bar is on a rack. I don't take it to the floor. More like the Good Morning movement but the bar is in the hands and not behind my neck. Kind of like a cross between stiff leg dead lift and Romanian. Trying to protect my hip and hernia.) Feels good. Started out light but increasing slowly. Haven't done that movement in a long time. Joints are feeling ok and no swelling. Slow and steady so that it sticks this time. Besides the excess weight I'm dealing with low hemoglobin which I think causes me to get light headed when I stand still. Walking not a problem but I do get winded easier I guess due to the lack of oxygen volume. I believe its caused by blood loss due to internal hemorrhoids since I'm on blood thinners. Seeing a GI doctor in a few weeks to consult with him. My education was in engineering not biology. Can you burn fat even with a suppressed metabolism by doing more exercise? I realize that I am only burning about 200+ cal per hour lifting which is not much compared to what the body does to just do normal body functions. I see these people on Biggest Loser or Extreme Weight Loss working out for 5-6 hrs/day and eating maybe 1800 cal. I guess that works if your metabolism is normal, your really overweight, and for the first year. I took about 2 years to loose over 100 lbs but not working out more than I do now. But after those two years I remained stagnant in weight loss and strength.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    I'd say for waist - get belly button, and tape parallel to floor. That's at least consistent and an easy marker to use next time.

    Careful on that low hemo, since lifting is anaerobic, there's a big aerobic makeup after the lift, that's when you see people pass out usually, brain has had enough with no oxygen and wants it now, but not getting it.
    So careful, maybe sit right after the hardest lifts where head tilts over - just in case, less area to fall in hopefully.

    Fortunately suppressed body doesn't change it's normal energy usage. Now literally starving, not eating for days on end - yes, changes to what is burned.

    So yes, you are burning mainly fat during the day, during lifting it's high carb burn, during repair from lifting it's higher fat burn, ect.

    The biggest loser folks are like research study participants, almost always.
    Healthy except for excess weight.
    Usually little to no formal exercise prior to start.
    No weight loss attempts prior to start for 6-12 months.

    That does indeed give all the best benefits to jumping headfirst in to a weight loss program. Almost anything will work the first several weeks or maybe months depending on how aggressive.
    But as followups on those folks show - it's the finishing to goal weight that is usually the kicker, or maintaining if goal weight was reached.
    And they actually do suppress their daily burn super fast doing those programs - but they create such a big TDEE even when suppressed, and only eating that 1800 or whatever - they still lose weight. Hopefully just fat.

    But I wouldn't increase exercise much except perhaps for some walking, in small batches.
    Exercise is just increased stressed in suppressed mode - lack of recovery. That's why walking not too bad, it's easy - but burns a tad more.

    20% off a tad more is a bigger deficit.
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    Thank you heybales. 3X per week for an hour at the gym is enough. I'm not a gym rat and I don't want to start dreading it. It's a doable balance. My German Shepherd agrees with you with doing more short walks :smile: .
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    Anyone have thoughts on eating a "cheat" meal once a week to help energize your metabolism when you are doing a cut? I see people like Chris Powell (Extreme Weight Loss show) promotes in his book one day a week to eat like 3000 cal but about 1800 the rest of the week or some variation. He also talks about carb cycling. Also read about other people who have successfully lost weight and doing body building say the same thing. And I don't mean eat garbage but an increase in calories.
  • runningforthetrain
    runningforthetrain Posts: 1,037 Member
    -wanting to follow this thread. Lots of good stuff on here. Say no to big cheat days. IMHO
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    edited August 2015
    If the deficit is mild enough, 1 day weekly at TDEE or above seems to show in many a decent reset of hormones if done from the start of the diet.

    Think of the max method of that research showed success with - 5:2 diet where 5 days are at TDEE, 2 days are at 25% of TDEE. Leads to average weekly deficit of 22%.
    Again, with folks just starting a diet.

    The problem is when already in a diet, 1 day a week doesn't seem to help, and if suppressed, it's just a day of surplus food to be stored as fat, no changes to hormones or metabolism or daily burn.

    At that point, need several weeks at TDEE to get out of it.

    You are in that max suppressed state, so you aren't going to be saving the hormones from slowing you down more.
    But if you had a day and ate over suppressed TDEE - you will store it as fat.

    I think it would be a non-winner for you right now.

    Just be aware that any research or studies that show positive results with some method - are almost always done on folks that have had no attempts at weight loss or shown any in usually the last 6-12 months, depending on how picky the study is.

    And then most aren't long enough to show up the negative results of whatever they are testing, though some do go 6 months with actually good data.

    There were 2 ladies on MFP when I first joined that had been screwed over by a study that only lasted like 8-12 weeks, of course not long enough to take care of their total desired weight loss, just a start to it.
    Both attempted to continue the protocol without all the lab testing the study had (despite the researchers advice not to) - they eventually ground their loss to a stop and made it worse by their own efforts.

    The carb or calorie cycling is basically getting closer to MFP's daily TDEE method.
    You do more one day - you eat more that day.
    The cycling methods have you increase the calories with more carbs, usually within the 24 hrs post lifting workout, to get most benefit from the lifting.

    So if you were going to attempt that, you'd take say 250 calories from the 24 hrs prior to workout (but still enough right before to do a good workout), and eat 250 extra calories in the 24 hrs post workout to aid recovery.

    Gotta be doing a good progressive overload routine though that is damaging the muscles so that it even needs to repair, to use the extra calories.

    If workouts are morning, easy, if at night, tad confusing sometimes, though bigger dinner by 250 isn't hard.

    That would put you at about 1500 on some days - 2000 on some, and the 1750 on others.
  • msjeep
    msjeep Posts: 29 Member
    As always heybales you make a lot of sense. Nice to have a sounding board to discuss rather than trying something and regretting it. I will stay the course.
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