Intermittent Fasting
Bigredbow
Posts: 5 Member
Hello all!
I am entering my third week of the LCHF lifestyle and I am wondering if I should try this 12 hour fast that outside bloggers have suggested. I want to do it if it assures rapid fat loss, but I don't see how a 12-hour fast following by the consumption of all your macros/calories over the course of two or three hours will accomplish that. Especially when breaking the fast happens so close to bedtime.
So, for example, it is suggested that you have two cups of bulletproof coffee at 7am and then fast until 7pm when you consume your daily allotment of calories. Does this really work?
Your thoughts and personal experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Big Red Bow
I am entering my third week of the LCHF lifestyle and I am wondering if I should try this 12 hour fast that outside bloggers have suggested. I want to do it if it assures rapid fat loss, but I don't see how a 12-hour fast following by the consumption of all your macros/calories over the course of two or three hours will accomplish that. Especially when breaking the fast happens so close to bedtime.
So, for example, it is suggested that you have two cups of bulletproof coffee at 7am and then fast until 7pm when you consume your daily allotment of calories. Does this really work?
Your thoughts and personal experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Big Red Bow
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I would think you wouldn't want to/need to consume entire daily allotment at that time. I don't think I'd do that, just a decent big meal and whatever you need to ensure you get all the nutrition for the day you need0
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I enjoy intermittent fasting with BPC because it simplifies my otherwise-chaotic weekday mornings, not because I think I get a ton of additional weight loss benefits from it. Looking at my overall trend over the past 7 months of LCHF, I lose approximately 1.5 lbs per week regardless of whether I IF or don't IF. That said, I do feel I get increased energy, physically and mentally, when I have fasted for more than 16 hours, especially if I exercise during the fast. There are benefits, but I'm not sure if quicker weight loss is one of them--not for me, at least.
I don't believe there's any reason your feeding window has to be in the evening. I do it that way so I can eat my main meal with my family after work. Also it's easier to refrain from eating during the day while I'm busy than it is in the evening when I'm already in the kitchen cooking for everyone else. And also that way when you get up in the morning you are already well into your fast. But there's nothing saying you couldn't have a big breakfast and then fast all day, or make your feeding window around noon.
I have read that it is much more difficult to do intermittent fasting if you are not already well established on ketosis/LCHF.0 -
I don't fast, but only because I find I get foggy and can't function well. However, there is a bunch of excellent IF info here that you may find interesting: https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/blog/ and may better explain different fasting protocols and the science behind it.0
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I would think you wouldn't want to/need to consume entire daily allotment at that time. I don't think I'd do that, just a decent big meal and whatever you need to ensure you get all the nutrition for the day you need
Oh, I forgot to add--I do sometimes find it difficult to get enough protein when I am doing IF.0 -
I don't think IF helps with weight loss much. It makes you hungrier after the fast, and you eat a lot to compensate. Some studies report that you eat a little less than you would have, and that will lead to some loss. Other studies suggest you eat even more, and may have a net gain.
People here did a month-long IF experiment. Results were mixed.
If you do it, do it for the proposed health effects, not for weight loss.
Edit: the "brain fog" reported above is due to sodium loss. Fasting is highly ketogenic, so you'll need more sodium intake.0 -
About five days a week I fast from 7pm to lunch time the next day, it stops the mindless snacking and I enjoy just eating two large meals a day, or a big meal and a snack.0
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I want to do it if it assures rapid fat loss,
NOT the best reason to try Intermittent Fasting, in my opinion - at least for me. Some things happen "rapidly" on this Way Of Eating, (thankfully!), but it seems that in my experience if my focus is "rapidly" it always seems to backfire on me mentally.
IF is easier and even pleasant for some of us on LCHF because of the appetite control experienced. Dr. Fung and others speak of the lowering of insulin levels (not just blood glucose) that Fasting and IF can bring, and the huge benefit that is for those of us who are very insulin resistant and / or with messed up endocrine systems. That is the primary benefit, weight loss is a side effect if you will.
My pattern is a common one - last meal 8 pmish, BBC in the morning, break fast in the afternoon - pretty much effortless on LCHF.0 -
I have been kind of playing with this IF type thing this week. I have my normal breakfast, whatever that is, and a snack around 9 am or something if my breakfast wasn't caloric enough. Then I salt-and-water fast through until dinner. I started doing this because I was having stupid keto-junk-fat-bomb-non-food cravings during the mid-day and eating ridiculous amounts of whatever.
For me, eating lunch before I was really hungry - even a lower cal/still moderate fat lunch - seemed to trigger my want to eat in the mid afternoons. I found that when I went home for lunch, I really wasn't hungry, so I've got to spend some relaxing times at home, and have my extra ketone clarity in that mid-day stride - and get this - zero cravings so far.
I'm splitting up my calories like maybe 40/60 to breakfast dinner, and my eating windows are like 7-10 am, fast from 10 am - 7-8 pm; eat again 7-8 pm until 9 pm; fast from 9 pm through 7 am (with 6+ hours sleep in there). So far I've done it every day this week.
Playing around with what breakfast is. Still hitting most of my macros. No major cravings. Really really enjoying my dinner to levels of shock and disgust sometimes! But also, fun. I'm finding my calories are naturally lowering some, because eating anything more than 1,000 calories in the evening meal starts to get weird...
No weight loss as yet, but I'm not really focusing on it for that. I want to get my cravings and treat consumption knocked back down. I want my IR to get a break...and I know IF is one of the things recommended...
I know this isn't a traditional fast type thing, but it is working for me so far. I can't really push the fast past that 8+ hour point, because without a gallbladder, the accumulated slow trickle of bile starts to build up with disastrous bathroom consequences...0 -
Thanks everyone.
So, what I am learning so far is that you are not seeing accelerated weight loss with fasting. This is important for me to know for several reasons. As a person who has low stomach capacity, I couldn't imagine getting all of my macros in within a few hours. You'll notice that I was willing to give it a try if I thought the weight would be coming off more quickly. Another thing is that eating that much close to bedtime just isn't smart whether or not weight loss is the goal.
Ambergem1969, I will be checking out the link you attached. Thanks for that.
But, as Miami1976D, KnitOrmiss, Nicintime, Knackeredat34 so openly shared - - they like IF because it gives a certain amount of control over snacking and mindless eating during the day. Snacking is an issue of mine. Restricting food during the day seems to be a good strategy in this regard.
And finally, there is the impact that IF has on our Insulin and other hormones. I will try to look up this Dr. Fung to see what he/she has to say about the impact of IF on our endocrine system.
Wonderful collaboration everyone!!! AND Thank You!!0 -
knackeredat34 wrote: »About five days a week I fast from 7pm to lunch time the next day, it stops the mindless snacking and I enjoy just eating two large meals a day, or a big meal and a snack.
I am experimenting with this
Eating breakfast makes me hungry!!0 -
Ambergem1969, I will be checking out the link you attached. Thanks for that.
I will try to look up this Dr. Fung to see what he/she has to say about the impact of IF on our endocrine system.
You're welcome - the link I sent is Dr. Fung's website - he's a doctor located in Toronto, Canada.
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Not to hijack but is it easier to IF if you're already fat adapted? Or even a little ways into ketosis instead of right at the beginning?0
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I've been 16-8 IFing for about two weeks. I haven't noticed any tremendous weight loss but I have noticed that I am able to keep my calories down from the previous nibbling habit. I eat from noon to 8pm and have been pretty strict with myself. I only allow water, tea, coffee. Almost no calories (5 at most) in the morning. I haven't experienced any brain fog or anything like that. I do get hungry in the mornings but no more so than I was when I was drinking ~350 calorie BPC on the way to work and it's not overwhelming. This is something I can see myself continuing long term. I think the biggest downside for me is that I don't get as much protein in as i'd like.
ETA: I was running late from work one day and did get a little rage-y with stupid people at the gas pumps for blocking me from getting gas when my eating window was closing fast. They had no respect for the fact that I was IFing and if i didn't eat within 30 minutes I couldn't eat again til the next day. People, I swear.0 -
Oh, and as a side note, if I didn't mention it above, so far my fasting has me at roughly at 300-400 calorie deficit above my set goal within MFP. I've only been doing this so far this week so I don't have good weight loss statistics. Personally, one of the reasons I love it most is that special dose of ketone level mental clarity you get (my first bit is kicking in right now - I stopped eating at 9 am, it's almost noon now), and that mental clarity and clear energy to focus and work and all that is kicking in now and will last the rest of my day. That extra burst of clarity is key to my enjoyment and fascination of this exploration.0
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InADarkRoom wrote: »Not to hijack but is it easier to IF if you're already fat adapted? Or even a little ways into ketosis instead of right at the beginning?
Definitely. It's due to the appetite suppression. IF is almost hard to avoid for some people. I would routinely skip breakfast just due to total lack of hunger.
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I started IF hoping it would help me break a month long weight loss stall. I did begin losing again at a lesser rate than I had before the stall, but I'm within 14lbs of goal, so that's to be expected. It could've been a complete coincidence but I don't care because I also experience a nice mental energy increase while fasted that I enjoy and I really love walking the morning of fasting much more than other mornings.
I don't really count the hours, but I won't eat after dinner one night (6:30/7pm) until around 2:30 the next afternoon. I will only have non calorie beverages with very little artificial sweetener if necessary. I don't have my bulletproof coffee on fasting mornings.0 -
Following @dittodan's "recipe" for 36ish hr water fast has helped me break through a stall. I would say keto adaptation helps.0
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This is all so helpful. Again, thanks to each of you for your input.
One observation that I've made about my keto adaptation is that I am more hungry now than I was during the first week. I think it would be difficult to follow a fast with my current degree of hunger, but I really want to give it try at some point. Mental clarity???? Are you kidding me? Who wouldn't want some of that!
Oh, and thank you Keto_T for the heads up on the potential rage that may ensue.
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I am a long term faster, and do see improved weight loss with this technique. It is much easier to fast when fat adapted. It was much more difficult to accomplish when I was a carb eater, but for many years, I skipped eating on a Sunday.
I have tried many different lengths of fasts, sometimes drinking BPC or coffee with HWC in the am, then not eating until supper. I naturally adapted to eating one meal per day most days, at first I skipped eating lunch, then skipped breakfast and lunch, preferring to eat the bulk of my calories for supper, after having tried many different combinations.
I just ended a 48 hour water fast as per Dan's recipe, during a very busy workweek, and felt no hunger, no loss of energy and no ill effects whatsoever. In fact, my energy level increased. I have just eaten supper, but have no desire to overeat. I feel comfortable, not stuffed, and not wishing to eat more. I've come a long way though, and I have no desire to keep snacking just because I haven't eaten in 2 days. I want my weekly fasts to have a cumulative effect, and see results that will last the rest of my life.
I find that I have a greater calorie deficit with my regular routine of fasting, than if I had chosen not to fast. Some weeks I can't fit it in, but most weeks I have a fast of 36-48 hours, sometimes 2 shorter fasts. But daily I fast for 23 hours and eat for 1 hour. I use the longer fasts for kick-starting stalled weight loss, or for damage control when I might have eaten out and drifted a bit off plan.
But mainly I do it because I feel great doing it and I love it ! It works for me !0 -
I usually stop eating around 2pm, 'coz dang...I eat too much at breakfast. Then eat again about 7am the next day. I never thought about it as any sort of fast and I don't feel any benefits, just means I'm hungry all evening and have to cook for people and watch them eat.0
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Keto + IF is a magical combination!0
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I feel like a magician !0
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Keto + IF is a magical combination!Kitnthecat wrote: »I feel like a magician !
Definitely magical!!!
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
110 pounds down, 24 to go. 12 months 3 weeks on diet
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Dan is a wizard......0
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This is all so helpful. Again, thanks to each of you for your input.
One observation that I've made about my keto adaptation is that I am more hungry now than I was during the first week. I think it would be difficult to follow a fast with my current degree of hunger, but I really want to give it try at some point. Mental clarity???? Are you kidding me? Who wouldn't want some of that!
Oh, and thank you Keto_T for the heads up on the potential rage that may ensue.
Honestly, you would think that about the hunger, but fasting has a natural appetite suppressant when executed properly. I've had a deficit this week (per MFP alone) for the first time in ages. I credit it to IF...mostly.
You may eat more at a meal, but when spread out, it generally isn't an issue.
Besides, natural ebbs and flows in your hunger/appetite are normal and should be observed. Isn't ignoring our bodies what got most of us in this position in the first place???0 -
Thanks everyone. I, too, have been toying with this idea. I was successful in going through to dinner, or more particularly a snack before dinner, and did experience the mental acuity and a surge in energy and a feeling of well being. I really enjoyed that.
I have not yet done it again. I have had very, very light breakfast and skipped lunch often. Weight loss was easier each of those weeks but I did not get that surge of energy etc that I was looking for.
I won't say that it was easy for me. I don't think I was keto adapted at the time. So I have been waiting to get further established with this WOE before I shake things up again. I am certainly not losing the way others have. Slow and steady, averaging .5 a week. I do have 35-40 lbs more to lose so I would have thought it might be faster. But I put it on slowly so I am content to take it off slowly.
Your experiences are encouraging.0 -
knackeredat34 wrote: »About five days a week I fast from 7pm to lunch time the next day, it stops the mindless snacking and I enjoy just eating two large meals a day, or a big meal and a snack.
I like your comment. It is a true fast between meals at night and the morning! Great Idea BT0 -
As with many things, the results usually correlates with effort regarding IF...up to a certain point. The more you water out the program, the less effect you'll see. For example, if someone has a 600 kcal BPC, they might call it «fasting», but the body still has to process those calories...less time for glucagon to work on fat loss. Insulin is NOT be all, end all. Frequent snacking is similarly counterproductive to loss from STORED fat. Evolution made it easy for us to gain fat, while the chemical chain reactions needed for actually using those fat reserves are complicated and requires multiple micronutrients (which you're supposed to give the body when feeding)
Chemistry of Fat Loss: https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PLhMVa_juzVPnFGm1gQ7TYDNPgx7q4VGAw
My conclusion is that the more time glucagon has to release from stored fat, the more effectively you burn the cals that matter most in dieting, namely those from adipose tissue. The more cals or snack you feed the body beyond what it strictly needs, the «easy access» cals are burnt. Fex. ingesting MCT before a workout has a purpose, because you wish to boost performance. BUT, understand that any intake pre training is spent mainly to feed the workout. You're not gonna burn any significant amount from stored fat with a 300 kcal before lifting... The body has NO NEED to do lipolysis if you keep stuffing it with easy calories! At the gym I'm like «Gatorade, Mountain Dew...really?»...but people wanna be fooled.
Re benefits. A study referenced in Brad Pilon's «Eat, stop, eat» showed the most benefits up to 72 hrs. But some benefits, mainly increased HGH was seen at 18 hrs. Autophagy, I think, is a sliding scale. Actually I think it all is. It makes no sense that the body would suddenly start pumping out HGH just because a certain number of hours has gone since last meal. It's much more logic the body creates (genesis) hormones (stuff) per demand, if you ask me.
I've maintained scale weight range +/- 1 kg since January on ca 1700-2000 net kcal (+exercise cals and including water weight) Some days higher or lower cause I cycle carbs and calories. I've gone down from size L-M to XS in undies! Even clothes that I bought tight at the start of summer are roomier now. So, IME, keto and IF is the perfect recomp strategy. Clothes I bought in January look way too baggy. So, I can honestly say it works very well for ME. This month I stopped tracking altogether. I have to remind myself to eat enough.
If you wanna understand more of the why IF works, read Pilon or Varady. It's always better to do your own research, then you're not so reliant on other people's opinions and can make up your own mind about things, IMO.
Oh, btw, I'm always less hungry after an aggressive fast. For me it quiets the hunger bingeing monster.
The most important thing with IF is to tryout different things. Find your key, find what you can stick to. But we're all different and blablabla.
So find the protocols and combos that work for YOUR body. Experimenting. Dieting is not ONE program. It's a totality of sleep, stress, training enough, but not too hard, eating for health not pleasure. Get the daily habits down. Then you have earned a big party once in a while. The trouble starts when party foods become the normal every day choice «because you deserve it». Food is not a reward your body health appreciates much. Experiencing fun times with family or friends, laughter, whatever...are rewards that lasts longer.
Edit: I read or heard somewhere recently that many people confuse pleasure with happiness. But pleasure without working for it first, does not give the same reward feeling. Working hard to achieve something, THAT is rewarding!
Edit 2: I forgot to say that x amount of people can lose weight using whatever protocol or tweak that contradicts just what I said. You are your own lil universe.0 -
Good stuff. Thanks @Foamroller I find IF is really helping me on my weight loss journey. I fast for 34 hours and so far lose about 1.5lbs as a result.0
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Foamroller wrote: »
<snip>
The most important thing with IF is to tryout different things. Find your key, find what you can stick to. But we're all different and blablabla.
So find the protocols and combos that work for YOUR body. Experimenting. Dieting is not ONE program. It's a totality of sleep, stress, training enough, but not too hard, eating for health not pleasure. Get the daily habits down. Then you have earned a big party once in a while. The trouble starts when party foods become the normal every day choice «because you deserve it». Food is not a reward your body health appreciates much. Experiencing fun times with family or friends, laughter, whatever...are rewards that lasts longer.
<snip>
Very true.... A person has to experiment.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
Current weight: 198.5, 115.5 pounds down, 19.5 to go. 13 months on diet0
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