Keto flu again?
ndvoice
Posts: 161 Member
Started low carb eating 3 weeks ago. For the first couple days I had a vicious headache & was tired. Since then, my energy has been great - until today. Today I'm achy & tired & it feels like it did in the beginning. Most days my carbs are in the 50-80 range. On a couple days I hit 100.
Any idea if this fluctuation can cause the flu symptoms again? Trying to figure out if today's crappiness is diet related, or something else. Any suggestions? Thanks!
Any idea if this fluctuation can cause the flu symptoms again? Trying to figure out if today's crappiness is diet related, or something else. Any suggestions? Thanks!
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This may seem like a dumb question, but have you been drinking enough water?
Also, take a look at this link - it offers up some great information: https://reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq#wiki_what_is_.201Cketo_flu.201D_and_how_long_will_i_have_it.3F0 -
Salt. Lots and lots of salt.
How much sodium do you get daily?
Also, you're sort of on the fringes of Keto with the varying carb amounts which could be contributing to the back and forth feelings.
It's best to figure out a narrower carb range and stick to it consistently. Then you won't be dancing on the edges...0 -
Drink some broth, eat a couple of pickles, see if that helps.0
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Get more salt.0
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Not a dumb question! I know several people who say they don't "like" water. But I drink constantly. Love my water! I am not taking in salt though. My trainer / nutritionist has me totally avoiding salt, unless it naturally occurs. Since I'm eating no processed foods, that would be very little salt. Could this be the culprit? I don't understand the salt connection.CommandaPanda wrote: »This may seem like a dumb question, but have you been drinking enough water?
Also, take a look at this link - it offers up some great information: https://reddit.com/r/keto/wiki/faq#wiki_what_is_.201Cketo_flu.201D_and_how_long_will_i_have_it.3F
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My sodium averages 1200 a day.
Hmm, see I wasn't specifically doing Keto. I'm cutting out "white" foods & processed foods. But it's landing me in Keto most days, now that I know what Keto is lol. I get what you mean about picking a range. Thanks for the feedback!Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Salt. Lots and lots of salt.
How much sodium do you get daily?
Also, you're sort of on the fringes of Keto with the varying carb amounts which could be contributing to the back and forth feelings.
It's best to figure out a narrower carb range and stick to it consistently. Then you won't be dancing on the edges...
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... very little salt. Could this be the culprit? I don't understand the salt connection.
Absolutely! Most people don't understand the connection, and they are condemned to suffer through the "flu."
Low-carb causes the kidneys to dump sodium. It's partly hormonal (hormones regulate sodium retention), but mostly due to ketones lost in the urine. Ketones = negative ions. Sodium = positive ions. They go together like PB and J. Except in the urine.
The recommendation is 5000 mg/d. Don't tell your trainer.0 -
Lol I won't tell her! A person with degrees in exercise and nutrition should know this info though. Very surprising! I'm going to shove some olives in my face now0
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Additionally, as the body progresses in fat adapting, you can have the "flu" effects again as your body "adapts" another notch.
Generally Days 2-7, Day 14, Day 21, Day 28, Day 42, Day 56, Day 84, etc. Basically every few weeks it's possible to notch to another level of adaption, dumping more water, and more sodium to match... There are some charts explaining this, but it's been almost a year since I researched it, so I'm sorry to say I don't recall where it was...0 -
Thank you - that is helpful to know! So when these crappy days come, I will increase sodium a bit each time. Sounds like a plan!KnitOrMiss wrote: »Additionally, as the body progresses in fat adapting, you can have the "flu" effects again as your body "adapts" another notch.
Generally Days 2-7, Day 14, Day 21, Day 28, Day 42, Day 56, Day 84, etc. Basically every few weeks it's possible to notch to another level of adaption, dumping more water, and more sodium to match... There are some charts explaining this, but it's been almost a year since I researched it, so I'm sorry to say I don't recall where it was...
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And remember, your body will not stick to a schedule, so anytime you get tired, rundown, and feel crappy - sodium up first! LOL Everyone adapts at different rates.0
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A few years ago I read Lyle McDonald's "The Ketogenic Diet" and used to feel like I had all the answers. Now I just use it as my "Keto Thesaurus".
Here's a couple of snippets I found for you from Lyle McDonald:
"At the very least, individuals on a ketogenic diet should take some form of sugar free vitamin and mineral supplement to ensure nutritional adequacy. Additionally, supplemental sodium, magnesium and potassium may be necessary, as detailed in chapter 7."
(From Chapter 7)
"Providing 4-5 grams of sodium per day (not much higher than the average American diet) prevents the majority of symptoms of weakness and low energy, possibly by maintaining normal blood pressure."
I do supplement with a multivitamin each morning and evening, I'm thinking that my keto flu isn't as severe as a result of this? I also don't track sodium intake so I'm sure I go over the top each day.0 -
CommandaPanda wrote: »(From Chapter 7)
"Providing 4-5 grams of sodium per day (not much higher than the average American diet) prevents the majority of symptoms of weakness and low energy, possibly by maintaining normal blood pressure."
Good book! I think it's more a matter of maintaining blood volume than blood pressure. The body can maintain normal blood pressure with reduced volume via vasoconstriction, but it then has trouble adapting to changing blood pressure requirements, like standing up, exercising, etc.
So, yeah, low carb causes ketones. Ketones cause sodium loss. Sodium loss causes reduced blood volume. Reduced blood volume can lead to headaches, light-headedness, fatigue, etc. I.e., the keto flu.
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Thanks for the info! I do take a multi. I think it's really the lack of salt that's getting me. Most people are saying 3000 to 5000 and I'm getting 1200. That's a big difference! Looking forward to a better tomorrow!CommandaPanda wrote: »A few years ago I read Lyle McDonald's "The Ketogenic Diet" and used to feel like I had all the answers. Now I just use it as my "Keto Thesaurus".
Here's a couple of snippets I found for you from Lyle McDonald:
"At the very least, individuals on a ketogenic diet should take some form of sugar free vitamin and mineral supplement to ensure nutritional adequacy. Additionally, supplemental sodium, magnesium and potassium may be necessary, as detailed in chapter 7."
(From Chapter 7)
"Providing 4-5 grams of sodium per day (not much higher than the average American diet) prevents the majority of symptoms of weakness and low energy, possibly by maintaining normal blood pressure."
I do supplement with a multivitamin each morning and evening, I'm thinking that my keto flu isn't as severe as a result of this? I also don't track sodium intake so I'm sure I go over the top each day.
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Thank you for an explanation that I can understand0 -
CommandaPanda wrote: »(From Chapter 7)
"Providing 4-5 grams of sodium per day (not much higher than the average American diet) prevents the majority of symptoms of weakness and low energy, possibly by maintaining normal blood pressure."
Good book! I think it's more a matter of maintaining blood volume than blood pressure. The body can maintain normal blood pressure with reduced volume via vasoconstriction, but it then has trouble adapting to changing blood pressure requirements, like standing up, exercising, etc.
So, yeah, low carb causes ketones. Ketones cause sodium loss. Sodium loss causes reduced blood volume. Reduced blood volume can lead to headaches, light-headedness, fatigue, etc. I.e., the keto flu.
Thank you for an explanation that I can understand!0 -
I got some salt tablets from Amazon and have had the energy burst again, like in the beginning. Sometimes I don't want to eat but need it. The tablets are working well! 0
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I also recommend Smart water. It's water with electrolytes added. It's helped me a lot with the headaches. I drink it daily to help prevent them.0
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I enjoyed some yummy olives & a cup of broth this evening. Up around 3000 for today now. Thank you all for your advice. Hoping after a good nights sleep I'll feel more balanced tomorrow.
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So, yeah, low carb causes ketones. Ketones cause sodium loss. Sodium loss causes reduced blood volume. Reduced blood volume can lead to headaches, light-headedness, fatigue, etc. I.e., the keto flu.
This right here needs to be included in any info we have in the files for "Keto Flu And How To Avoid It!!!!!" Drummed down to the basics...0 -
Thank you all! I feel better today - not 100%, but a lot better. I moved my training appointment from today to Saturday. Bummer, but weightlifting when shaky is probably not a good idea lol. Already had my broth today & will be salting dinner. Will also pick up potassium supplement. For now, I had a banana. (I know - lots of carbs)
Lots of fluids today too. Hoping to have my strength back tomorrow so I can attack some cardio!
I did reach out to my trainer and let her know I thought my electrolytes were off (week, dizzy, low blood pressure). She said to start using salt too. Not sure why she didn't have me using salt already, but we'll discuss it on Saturday!
Thanks again to all of you! ❤️0 -
One more thing worth mentioning. If you lose too much sodium, your body tries to hang onto what's left and starts wasting potassium instead. So if you were low on sodium for 3 weeks, you're doing the right thing by adding some potassium. I don't supplement, but I do seek out high-potassium foods, like avocados.
Keep trying the weightlifting, but take it slowly. Eventually you'll find your groove, and you'll feel better than ever.0 -
Avocado would give you more potassium than a banana without all the sugar
Here's a comparison. Whoever said "Bananas are the perfect food" is an idiot.
These are both 100 gram servings.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Avocado would give you more potassium than a banana without all the sugar
Here's a comparison. Whoever said "Bananas are the perfect food" is an idiot.
These are both 100 gram servings.
Wow! I even googled for potassium rich foods & didn't find advocado. Good to know. I love advocado & will pick some up. Thanks!
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Brilliant. I occasionally buy them, but I need to get better at knowing when they are ripe. They are no good under-ripe or over-ripe I have discovered.... lol.0
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It's not beyond the realm of possibility that you actually had the flu.0
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Lucille4444 wrote: »It's not beyond the realm of possibility that you actually had the flu.
No stomach issues, no head cold symptoms....so I don't think it's a virus. No symptoms other than dizzy & achy, with low blood pressure.0 -
Ah phooey. I type something out but MFP ate it.
I've been looking at your diary. I'm usually the obnoxious elecrolyte-pusher. But is it possible you are not eating enough calories?
I'm unsure of your stats, other that you are in your 30s like me. Input them in the keto calc (google: ankerl keto calc) and check out what comes out. If the electrolytes aren't helping enough, undereating may be your issue. I don't recommend anything larger than a 20% deficit. I personally stick around 15%. There is such a thing as undereating. And that can set you back, too, and make you feel dizzy and weak. Sneaking in extra fats in dips and cooking is fairly simple and an easy way to nudge your calories up to an appropriate number. Avocados. mayo, and sour cream are higher in cal and fat and are yummy in dips.
If your 15-20% deficit is indeed 1300cals or under, then I suppose you can disregard this advice. Your daily goal says 1640, but there are some days where you don't even reach 1200. Undereating plus exercise....well I've done it on accident before, and I though I was going to pass out. Misery barely staggering around on 2 legs.
Hope you are feeling better soon. 0
