Dr. Tim Noakes facing censure for recommending LCHF
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I don't think the fasting and that kind of stuff are good for younger children. BUT, Look at our little children today. There is a high percent of FAT kids. I am talking 6-7 yrs and up can certainly eat like we do w/o the fasting. Especially with the lack of energy spent by kids today. I still remember going outside in the morning and only checking in to eat. Playing all day helped me keep from getting fat until I reached about 12 yrs or puberty. Then I was not obese until I started having children and living on the low income diets...mac & cheese, potatoes, the all american SAD. I certainly do believe we can approach raising a toddler today on the LCHF, but of course we need to study before we jump into it. I think that's what the doc is saying.0
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lithezebra wrote: »Aside from that, of course carb restriction is helpful for diabetes! I thought that was standard advice these days.
You'd think, but my Dad sat there the other night and told me he can handle a bit of sugar (biscuits with his coffee is what he's talking about) but it's the fat that makes his blood sugar spike out of control. Because this is what his "diabetes specialist" told him. Even though he's been sick with diabetes for 20 years.0 -
My endocrinologist told me to eat leaner meats and more fruits and veggies. I'm going against her advice with a lchf det.I know a ketogenic diet, and IF, lowers growth hormone
Fasting increases growth hormone, not lowers it:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/
Interesting. I've read the opposite. If I get it retested in the upcoming months, then I guess I'll know how IF and keto affect me.0 -
EbonyDahlia wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »Aside from that, of course carb restriction is helpful for diabetes! I thought that was standard advice these days.
You'd think, but my Dad sat there the other night and told me he can handle a bit of sugar (biscuits with his coffee is what he's talking about) but it's the fat that makes his blood sugar spike out of control. Because this is what his "diabetes specialist" told him. Even though he's been sick with diabetes for 20 years.
Some diabetics do have a problem with fat, although the way to figure that out is with a glucose meter, not what a specialist said. What I've read is that a high fat meal can lead to high readings long after a meal, rather than the carb spike that people see immediately after a meal. So a person might have very high readings the next morning after a high fat dinner. I don't know why.
The bottom line is that you can't really get away with eating more of anything, carbs, protein or fat, than your body needs for energy, growth and repair, in the long term.0 -
My endocrinologist told me to eat leaner meats and more fruits and veggies. I'm going against her advice with a lchf det.I know a ketogenic diet, and IF, lowers growth hormone
Fasting increases growth hormone, not lowers it:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/
Interesting. I've read the opposite. If I get it retested in the upcoming months, then I guess I'll know how IF and keto affect me.
Regardless, both approaches limit heavily refined carbs...0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »My endocrinologist told me to eat leaner meats and more fruits and veggies. I'm going against her advice with a lchf det.I know a ketogenic diet, and IF, lowers growth hormone
Fasting increases growth hormone, not lowers it:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/
Interesting. I've read the opposite. If I get it retested in the upcoming months, then I guess I'll know how IF and keto affect me.
Regardless, both approaches limit heavily refined carbs...
True, but I find a carb is carb (beyond straight sugar and soda) when it comes to controlling my BG. Adding more didn't help me.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »I know a ketogenic diet, and IF, lowers growth hormone
Fasting increases growth hormone, not lowers it:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/
Fasting isn't recommended for children. Besides the fact that kids are growing, they're a lot more prone to dehydration than adults, and they may not say anything, or even be able to say anything, if they have a problem.
fwiw, here is Dr. Jay Wortman's blog post about his 2 healthy kids, raised on lchf: http://www.drjaywortman.com/blog/wordpress/2012/08/24/low-carb-baby-n1-three-year-progress-report/
He stopped the blogging, but was on the Low Carb cruise last May: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/the-llvlc-show-episode-1029-dr-jay-wortman-2015-low-carb-cruise-lecture/255380 -
@camtosh thanks for the links.0
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lithezebra wrote: »I know a ketogenic diet, and IF, lowers growth hormone
Fasting increases growth hormone, not lowers it:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/fasting-and-growth-hormone-physiology-part-3/
Fasting isn't recommended for children. Besides the fact that kids are growing, they're a lot more prone to dehydration than adults, and they may not say anything, or even be able to say anything, if they have a problem.
fwiw, here is Dr. Jay Wortman's blog post about his 2 healthy kids, raised on lchf: http://www.drjaywortman.com/blog/wordpress/2012/08/24/low-carb-baby-n1-three-year-progress-report/
He stopped the blogging, but was on the Low Carb cruise last May: http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/the-llvlc-show-episode-1029-dr-jay-wortman-2015-low-carb-cruise-lecture/25538
Like I said, I would want to see multiple studies that show, specifically, that ketones provide adequate energy for growth and development, before I'd put kids on a ketogenic diet, with the exception of children who need a ketogenic diet for seizure control. A few seemingly healthy kids doesn't demonstrate that they're as healthy or as smart as they could be. That doesn't mean that most children wouldn't be a lot healthier on a very low sugar, low to moderate carb diet, rather than the high sugar junk food diet that is so prevalent today.0 -
The doc prob did not mean ketogenic - I think the term LC is pretty relative... compared to the SAD, 100g of carb is still LC and I doubt that I would choose to feed my child more than that. (Not that I have children - by choice)0
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http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/lowcarb/
Really interesting documentary called "low carb diet, fat or fiction" is at that link.
With Tim Noakes being interviewed in it.
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It is my guess back in history if people ever did eat a very low carb diet that the kids did likewise.0
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latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-south-africa-fat-hearing-20151125-story.html
Saw a post on Facebook this morning promoting the story. Seems the LA Times has picked up the story. Does that make it an international story?0 -
businesstech.co.za/news/general/105573/tim-noakes-dietary-advice-deemed-irresponsible/
This seems to be a blip on the case from yesterday's hearing. I am starting to think this complaint is not based to science but damaged egos.
Below is the one comment on the article.
Ally B - LCHF PT • an hour ago
I was there today and this is not a representative article at all. Dhansay came across unprepared and ill-suited to present evidence in this hearing. He didn't understand the difference between LCHF and Ketogenic diets. He claimed ketosis was dangerous for children then said he'd used a Ketogenic diet on 2 infant patients. He didn't understand how to work out dietary percentages when advocate Ramdass cross-examined him and had not read the two books he referenced. the advocate on behalf of HPCSA was a time waster and tried to bring in a 'surprise' witness on Monday, much to the frustration of the committee. Professor Noakes' team brought their case down and did so with dignity and professionalism.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »It is my guess back in history if people ever did eat a very low carb diet that the kids did likewise.
The idea that our ancestors ate a low carb diet has likely been overstated. Evidence of humans eating grains and starchy tubers goes back more than 100,000 years. However, we're adaptable creatures, and we can thrive on low carb too. I just wouldn't experiment on kids, because their development is too precious. As adults we can try things out on ourselves, and probably do no lasting damage.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217141312.htm0 -
What concerns me there are no studies proving high carb diets are safe for children. The medical news is full of conditions plaguing kids today that were unheard of 100 years ago or even 50 years ago. We know health is in a state of decline on the SAD (Standard American Diet) referred to in the 20 minute video below. Maybe it is the moral decline in the USA and not the diet causing a rash of cancer, heart attacks, childhood medical issues, etc is the medical community does not think it is diet related? The source of the $$$ behind any type of advice on any subject going forward in going to be on my radar. Someone is talking nonsense and my question is who.
I am thankful this court case is progressing. It has the force to move LCHF forward more than all progress of the last 50 years of efforts but only because it builds on the efforts of the past 50 years world wide. With millions more in the USA at risk to lose their levels of access to medical services enjoyed today due to the failing Affordable Healthcare Act the more important good health by diet becomes.
At my age this may not be critical to my own health but what about grandkids that may be born in the next 20 years. No I do not think civilization is going to collapse but our medical needs are advancing faster than our resources in my view.
Below is a debate in South Africa from this past June 2015.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=SQXd6tpu5bE0 -
I think it's clear that high sugar diets are very bad for kids. Apparently, even replacing the sugar with carbs helps. I wouldn't worry about about a moderate low carb diet that cuts out a lot of the grains that are part of the SAD. I have seen studies that suggest that too much carb restriction is detrimental to growth. It's a concern for kids on ketogenic diets for their epilepsy. Obviously, epilepsy is much more dangerous to a child than a ketogenic diet.0
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I think if kids started out with moderate low carb diets excluding grains and refined sugar, and continued to eat that way through their lifetime, it would be enough to boost overall health and prevent the common issues we know are associated with high carb diets. They would probably never need to cut carbs further.0
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lithezebra wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »It is my guess back in history if people ever did eat a very low carb diet that the kids did likewise.
The idea that our ancestors ate a low carb diet has likely been overstated. Evidence of humans eating grains and starchy tubers goes back more than 100,000 years. However, we're adaptable creatures, and we can thrive on low carb too. I just wouldn't experiment on kids, because their development is too precious. As adults we can try things out on ourselves, and probably do no lasting damage.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217141312.htm
That depends on your ancestry. Different populations have more copies of the AMY1 alpha-amylase gene which facilitates the breakdown of carbohydrates, likely because they have evolved eating more starches.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377015/
Even a high carb diet 100,000 years ago wouldn't compare with a high carb, SAD/western diet today due to the absence of highly processed and readily available refined sugars and grains.0 -
bluefish86 wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »It is my guess back in history if people ever did eat a very low carb diet that the kids did likewise.
The idea that our ancestors ate a low carb diet has likely been overstated. Evidence of humans eating grains and starchy tubers goes back more than 100,000 years. However, we're adaptable creatures, and we can thrive on low carb too. I just wouldn't experiment on kids, because their development is too precious. As adults we can try things out on ourselves, and probably do no lasting damage.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091217141312.htm
That depends on your ancestry. Different populations have more copies of the AMY1 alpha-amylase gene which facilitates the breakdown of carbohydrates, likely because they have evolved eating more starches.... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2377015/
Even a high carb diet 100,000 years ago wouldn't compare with a high carb, SAD/western diet today due to the absence of highly processed and readily available refined sugars and grains.
If you think that it's important to eat like your specific ancestors did, or to correlate your copy number with the amount of starch you eat, you could have your genome sequenced!
I'm sticking with keto, regardless of my ancestors, because it seems to help my hand and neck pain.0
