Newbie - question for diabetics
lukesydaisy
Posts: 16 Member
Hello all, I am new to this forum and very new to trying such an extremely low-carb diet. I'm not even sure exactly what my version would be called, but if you've ever seen the website Butter Makes Your Pants Fall Off, that is what my husband and I are trying out. We have friends who have been following this protocol, and one has lost 75 pounds in 6 months, and the other, after just a few weeks, is able to totally go off diabetes meds and has normal blood sugars. I have had type 2 diabetes for about 14 years now, as well as PCOS. I've been taking insulin since 2013, and even though I'm only 33, I have some scary diabetes symptoms like really bad neuropathy. I'm hoping this will really help with my diabetes and maybe even allow us to have another child, because the first one is pretty awesome.
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. I read somewhere that the body's supposed to release glucagon from my liver after I cut off carbs, but that that store should be used up in about 24 hours. My sugar is still high. Does anyone have experience or insight into what might be happening? Does it sometimes take several days? Is it because my body is soooo insulin resistant, or maybe, since I'm far gone enough to be on insulin, I'm not actually making any/much, and I do need to inject a small amount?
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. I read somewhere that the body's supposed to release glucagon from my liver after I cut off carbs, but that that store should be used up in about 24 hours. My sugar is still high. Does anyone have experience or insight into what might be happening? Does it sometimes take several days? Is it because my body is soooo insulin resistant, or maybe, since I'm far gone enough to be on insulin, I'm not actually making any/much, and I do need to inject a small amount?
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lukesydaisy wrote: »Hello all, I am new to this forum and very new to trying such an extremely low-carb diet. I'm not even sure exactly what my version would be called, but if you've ever seen the website Butter Makes Your Pants Fall Off, that is what my husband and I are trying out. We have friends who have been following this protocol, and one has lost 75 pounds in 6 months, and the other, after just a few weeks, is able to totally go off diabetes meds and has normal blood sugars. I have had type 2 diabetes for about 14 years now, as well as PCOS. I've been taking insulin since 2013, and even though I'm only 33, I have some scary diabetes symptoms like really bad neuropathy. I'm hoping this will really help with my diabetes and maybe even allow us to have another child, because the first one is pretty awesome.
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. I read somewhere that the body's supposed to release glucagon from my liver after I cut off carbs, but that that store should be used up in about 24 hours. My sugar is still high. Does anyone have experience or insight into what might be happening? Does it sometimes take several days? Is it because my body is soooo insulin resistant, or maybe, since I'm far gone enough to be on insulin, I'm not actually making any/much, and I do need to inject a small amount?
I'm not diabetic but quite familiar with all things diabetes and IR just due to having a T1D daughter. You end up reading about all forms when your kid is Type 1 just to feel comfortable about, keeping them alive and stuff.
Anyway, I don't think you should just stop taking the insulin. You may not ever be able to stop no matter how well you work the low carb diet. That's a possibility that you need to keep in mind.
How were your blood sugars before starting LC two days ago? What was your morning bg and a couple hours after meals typically like?
Did you ever experience hypos at all? Do you also take metformin? And is your insulin long acting only? Lantus? Levemir?0 -
My blood sugars tend to be pretty high...I've been feeling lately like the insulin is not really working like it's supposed to, or maybe I'm just getting more IR the more I take it? I have to take like 50 units at a meal, and when I started it was 10-20. I take Levemir and Humalog. I don't usually remember to take my fasting blood sugar, because our early mornings are so busy getting 9 kids up and ready for school, so I really can't answer that question.
I guess the more I'm thinking about it, I really should be taking at least the Levemir, shouldn't I, since that is supposed to be what my body needs regardless of food consumed?0 -
You definitely need to be taking some of your insulin. I have Type II and on the long acting insulin too. Even doing low carb and taking the insulin, my levels were still high. You need to talk to your endo about a sliding scale for taking your insulin. So if your pre level readings are a certain amount, you need to take a certain amount of insulin. I feel your pain. I'd also be getting up a little earlier in the morning to check your fasting levels.0
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I do know from the past that my fastings were often higher than when I went to bed...dawn syndrome, or something?0
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So you need insulin to counter that. That is the glycogenesis (sp) coming into action. Unfortunately not all our bodies will work the way they are "supposed" to. Mine doesn't.0
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So something is still making glucose even though I'm not taking in carbs.0
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lukesydaisy wrote: »Hello all, I am new to this forum and very new to trying such an extremely low-carb diet. I'm not even sure exactly what my version would be called, but if you've ever seen the website Butter Makes Your Pants Fall Off, that is what my husband and I are trying out. We have friends who have been following this protocol, and one has lost 75 pounds in 6 months, and the other, after just a few weeks, is able to totally go off diabetes meds and has normal blood sugars. I have had type 2 diabetes for about 14 years now, as well as PCOS. I've been taking insulin since 2013, and even though I'm only 33, I have some scary diabetes symptoms like really bad neuropathy. I'm hoping this will really help with my diabetes and maybe even allow us to have another child, because the first one is pretty awesome.
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. I read somewhere that the body's supposed to release glucagon from my liver after I cut off carbs, but that that store should be used up in about 24 hours. My sugar is still high. Does anyone have experience or insight into what might be happening? Does it sometimes take several days? Is it because my body is soooo insulin resistant, or maybe, since I'm far gone enough to be on insulin, I'm not actually making any/much, and I do need to inject a small amount?
First - as others have suggested - make sure you are working with your doctor.
Type 2 diabetes can have (at least) two components: insulin resistance and insulin insufficiency.
Most people start out with insulin resistance (your body produces the normal amount of insulin - but it isn't working well to move the glucose out of the bloodstream to where it needs to go.
Chronically elevated blood glucose levels (and perhaps other aspects of diabetes) damage the beta cells that produce insulin and then you become insulin deficient.
Metformin addresses the first issue, insulin and drugs that make your pancreas produce more insulin address the second.
The risk for dangerous hypoglycemic episodes come with the drugs that make your pancreas produce more insulin (whether you need it) and the basal insulin (again, whether you need it or not). If you are creating insulin - or adding it - at a steady level and you don't feed your bloodstream enough glucose via carbs, there is more insulin than is needed to handle the glucose and it handles it too well (dropping your blood glucose too low).
So - once you are taking drugs for the latter you need to be very careful about balancing carbs and the background level of insulin.
Many insulin dependent diabetics are able to decrease or eliminate the insulin - but not all. In the meantime, chronically elevated blood glucose can damage your organs so you want to keep it under control.
If your doctor is not friendly to a very low carb diet, you may need to manage it on your own - in which case proceed slowly (do lots of research, lots of testing so you know how your body is reacting, and gradually lower the insulin or drugs which make your pancreas produce insulin). Make sure you have glucose tablets around and are around people who know what to look for. And - again - the safest route is to work closely with your doctor.0 -
Ditto the others. Do be careful. Those meds require a fair bit of care and work when a diet changes from what I understand ( not a great deal).
I am prediabetic but my IR is a bit stubborn. My BG will creep up on me due to large meals or just a fair bit of protein; especially FBG. My FBG tends to take a couple of days of very low carb (<15g) or very low calories (for me it is <1100kcal) before my BG or FBG drops. Once it does drop it drops pretty hard and I usually have a day or two of slightly low lows (3.3-4.0). After a day of that it stabilizes to a more normal, slightly higher level.... Those first few days would be harder to manage with medication.
I'm not very helpful. I do want to wish you luck though.
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As the others said, please keep taking your insulin, you don't ever want to be anywhere near 300 as that will cause irreversible damage to your body.
I'm a type 2 diabetic, on insulin for 8 years, ever since Actos was black-boxed and I discovered that metformin in makes me violently ill. I was taking 80-100 units of long lasting insulin and 45-60 units of fast-acting insulin at mealtimes.
It definitely takes time for your body to adjust. You won't find that cutting carbs automatically eliminates your need for insulin. Your body can even turn protein into insulin, especially if you're eating a lot of it.
Not that I'm recommending a low cal LCHF diet at all, everyone needs to find the right fit for them, but it wasn't until this latest attempt where I cut my overall food consumption as well as maintaining a diet low in carbs and high in fats that I've finally had a significant reduction in my insulin. And it didn't happen overnight. It was a steady progression. Right now I'm standing at 30 units of long lasting and if I have a meal over 400 calories, I often need 3-5 units of short acting. I'm 40 days in this time around.
When I was at 1,800 calories, 20 net carbs and eating too much protein, I was taking 135 units of long lasting insulin and 10 units of fast acting insulin. So as you can see, it takes some effort to get to know how your body is going to respond.
I'm fortunate that my doctor encouraged me to adjust my insulin levels years ago. I definitely recommend working with your healthcare provider.
But congrats on making some really positive changes. It's so worth it. Weight loss is so tough on insulin, so if you can reduce your use, you should see the scale start to move, but be patient. It's a long game, but we're all in it with you.0 -
Thank you all so much for your help, advice and encouragement!0
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Welcome and congrats on taking your health into your own hands!
First of all, please go back to your meds, while carefully controlling your blood glucose. Ideally you should make this transition with a knowledgeable doctor but we all know they're a rare breed. ::sigh::
I arrived here on September 2014, T2 diabetic, 315lb, with first signs of neuropathy, a family history of severe diabetic complications and on the fast track to gastric surgery. People on this forum, plus the advice I found online and a couple of books likely saved my life.
I never needed insulin so my transition was easier than yours, in the sense that the risk of hypos was much smaller. And yet, even though A1C values, triglycerides etc, all improved fairly quickly (in 3 months I had better lab results than 10 years ago) it took me 6 months to halve metformin and I still take it before bed (do NOT do this until you're confident you understand your body's reactions) and my fasting glucose is still the highest value of the day (but that is now between 90-115, according to what I ate the previous days).
I did everything my (at the time) doctor told me not to, I ate everything she told me not to. All I wanted was to be regularly tested to be sure I wasn't killing myself with this "crazy" diet. According to my last lab results I am no longer a diabetic. Of course, I know I am no longer diabetic in the sense that a sober alcoholic is no longer an alcoholic: as long as I keep eating LCHF I can control my blood sugars and avoid further damage to my organs. I can not go back to eat as before, as several doctors have wanted me to ("carefully", of course).
It took me more than a year to find a paleo minded doctor that approves of my diet and finally asked for hormonal tests besides the usual. What he found is that, even with my diabetes cured/reversed/under control/whatever, my body is far from being as it should. I now take supplements made specifically for my needs and finally trust a doctor.
Until you find a doctor you can trust, the best advice I can give you regarding medication is to follow Dr Bernstein's: small changes can only make small damage.
Which leads me to recommending you to get Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. He's very famous among the control-diabetes-with-food crowd and being a T1 that has now survived all the doctors that predicted his death 50 years ago, he knows what he says. His way works, no doubt about it. It may be stricter than you need but I know of no better book to explain all that there is to know about low carb and diabetes (both T1 and T2, either insulin dependent or not).
The other book I would recommend is Davis's Wheat Belly Total Health. It has a wealth of information about reversing T2 and about lots of common problems disregarded by most doctors, together with easy to follow suggestions to improve your health without the secondary effects of prescription drugs. Be aware however that his #1 rule is no-grains-whatesoever. And, at least for us that are IR, the science behind his arguments makes a lot of sense.
Finally, there are lots of resources for diabetics going this way (hey, it works!) and you'll find them easily with a google search or on facebook if you use it. Personally I like diabetes.co.uk but it can be a bit overwhelming because there's all the currents there. But it is a huge community and many are taking the LCHF route.
Best of luck to you, be certain that this works. Whether you can get off all your meds or just substantially reduce them, there's nothing you can do that will control/reverse diabetes and improve your health like LCHF. Stay in touch!
::flowerforyou::0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »Hello all, I am new to this forum and very new to trying such an extremely low-carb diet. I'm not even sure exactly what my version would be called, but if you've ever seen the website Butter Makes Your Pants Fall Off, that is what my husband and I are trying out. We have friends who have been following this protocol, and one has lost 75 pounds in 6 months, and the other, after just a few weeks, is able to totally go off diabetes meds and has normal blood sugars. I have had type 2 diabetes for about 14 years now, as well as PCOS. I've been taking insulin since 2013, and even though I'm only 33, I have some scary diabetes symptoms like really bad neuropathy. I'm hoping this will really help with my diabetes and maybe even allow us to have another child, because the first one is pretty awesome.
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. I read somewhere that the body's supposed to release glucagon from my liver after I cut off carbs, but that that store should be used up in about 24 hours. My sugar is still high. Does anyone have experience or insight into what might be happening? Does it sometimes take several days? Is it because my body is soooo insulin resistant, or maybe, since I'm far gone enough to be on insulin, I'm not actually making any/much, and I do need to inject a small amount?
It took me a good three months (I forget the exact time period) of consistent 20 net carb days to get my sugars to where my doctor took me off all my meds. I would be very careful getting off to early. You have a monitor, so stay with your program UNTIL you see a drop in daily sugars, not before, anticipating one. Also I earnestly encourage getting your doctor on board. Your expectations to me seem very unrealistic. I remained on 750 Glucophage ER well into being keto adapted which takes months the first time to get to.0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »I do know from the past that my fastings were often higher than when I went to bed...dawn syndrome, or something?
Dawn phenomenon. It will take months. Stay the course until you start seeing normal blood sugar levels, and THEN cut your meds. With a BS of 300 you are not going to have any bad effects from eating low carb (sugar wise). I'm repeating myself, I know. Sorry.
And BTW, congrats on taking this step for health! It's a marathon, not a sprint, so months vs days are what to focus on. You can do it. I'm a type 2 diabetic off meds entirely and off PCOS meds and high blood pressure meds, too. But I've been at it over a year. Baby steps, to quote a Bill Murray movie. Insulin resistance is a tough nut to crack.0 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »As the others said, please keep taking your insulin, you don't ever want to be anywhere near 300 as that will cause irreversible damage to your body.
Agree so much! Be very careful of your organs, especially your eyes. High sugar damage to them is permanent!
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I have pcos and type 2 diabetes. When I first started eating a ketogenic diet, I really had to watch the protein too. Protein caused my sugar to spike quite a bit. I would eat very small protein portions but eat more frequently. I was able to stop my insulin and oral meds right away, but I was already eating pretty low carb before. I think I was close to ketosis before I really lowered my carbohydrate intake to a keto level. I could not ovulate on metformin and clomid. I ovulated right away and continue to ovulate every month now. I was able to conceive but unfortunately the pregnancies were ectopic due to my scar tissue in my tubes from a tubal reversal surgery.0
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JessicaLCHF wrote: »lukesydaisy wrote: »I do know from the past that my fastings were often higher than when I went to bed...dawn syndrome, or something?
Dawn phenomenon. It will take months. Stay the course until you start seeing normal blood sugar levels, and THEN cut your meds. With a BS of 300 you are not going to have any bad effects from eating low carb (sugar wise). I'm repeating myself, I know. Sorry.
And BTW, congrats on taking this step for health! It's a marathon, not a sprint, so months vs days are what to focus on. You can do it. I'm a type 2 diabetic off meds entirely and off PCOS meds and high blood pressure meds, too. But I've been at it over a year. Baby steps, to quote a Bill Murray movie. Insulin resistance is a tough nut to crack.
Seven months into a very low carb diet, I still have dawn phenomenon. If I eat late, a lot, more than 15g carbs in the evening, or a lot of protein my FBG is high. Still. I am starting to lose hope that it will go away.0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »So something is still making glucose even though I'm not taking in carbs.
Yes. And it always will. Your liver will create the minimum amount of glucose needed for your brain through gluconeogenesis. It's basically a demand / supply driven process.
But, T2D is a condition where the cells become resistant to insulin, therefore the pancreas produces MORE insulin, not less, to combat it and get the cells to open. Once they're open, and all the blood glucose is getting shuffled away as needed, there could still be insulin in the blood with nothing to do. This will signal a demand for glucose from the liver and it will get to work on gluconeogenesis once again to prevent a low blood sugar.
The condition of over producing the fat storing hormone insulin is what causes so much weight gain for people with IR and any of the metabolic conditions it develop into, like T2D and PCOS.
Eating a very low carb diet can teach the cells to become more sensitive over time. Lots of time.
T2D that have had uncontrolled high blood sugar for a long time can effectively "burn out" their insulin producing beta cells eventually and begin to produce too little insulin, but the fact that you didn't end up in a hospital the first 2 days suggests you're still producing decent insulin.
If your blood sugar was still running high before Keto, your first goal should be to keep taking meds as prescribed and use Keto to get blood sugar under control. Once that has been accomplished, your doctor will likely need to reduce it.
I would talk to them ASAP though about developing a sliding scale for the meal time fast acting so that you don't take more than needed. This is how T1D take fast acting insulin. They calculate only what is needed for that meal.0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »Hello all, I am new to this forum and very new to trying such an extremely low-carb diet. I'm not even sure exactly what my version would be called, but if you've ever seen the website Butter Makes Your Pants Fall Off, that is what my husband and I are trying out. We have friends who have been following this protocol, and one has lost 75 pounds in 6 months, and the other, after just a few weeks, is able to totally go off diabetes meds and has normal blood sugars. I have had type 2 diabetes for about 14 years now, as well as PCOS. I've been taking insulin since 2013, and even though I'm only 33, I have some scary diabetes symptoms like really bad neuropathy. I'm hoping this will really help with my diabetes and maybe even allow us to have another child, because the first one is pretty awesome.
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. I read somewhere that the body's supposed to release glucagon from my liver after I cut off carbs, but that that store should be used up in about 24 hours. My sugar is still high. Does anyone have experience or insight into what might be happening? Does it sometimes take several days? Is it because my body is soooo insulin resistant, or maybe, since I'm far gone enough to be on insulin, I'm not actually making any/much, and I do need to inject a small amount?
I don't have time to write a long post here, but I have blogged it. My case is similar to yours. The only advice I would give is to drop the insulin altogether, because insulin is a fat producing hormone. I did this one month into Keto. I was faithful to the 40 grams or less carbs a day. I didn't want the insulin to fight my attempts to lose weight. My BG's were a little high, but after a year or so, it steadily came down.
I also did water fasting.
I have lost over 100 pounds in 12 months.
Look at my blogs to help you:
Blog #13 DittoDan's Milestone's, First's And Good Changes Since Starting the Ketogenic Diet Updated
How I got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto Updated
"Keto-flu" and Sufficient Intake of Electrolytes
Are You Having Charlie horse/leg cramps?
Need Potassium?
Different Forms of Magnesium
My Blog: Intermittent Water Fasting & Keto
Blog #9 Fasting, Diabetic ~ Glucose/Sugar Levels
DittoDan's Blood Work Results 6-18-2015
BMR vs. Measured RMR via Exhaled Air Analysis
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
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lukesydaisy wrote: »(...)I've been taking insulin since 2013, and even though I'm only 33, I have some scary diabetes symptoms like really bad neuropathy. (...)
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. (...)
(...)My case is similar to yours. The only advice I would give is to drop the insulin altogether, because insulin is a fat producing hormone. I did this one month into Keto. I was faithful to the 40 grams or less carbs a day. I didn't want the insulin to fight my attempts to lose weight. My BG's were a little high, but after a year or so, it steadily came down.
(...)
@DittoDan is awesome and @lukesydaisy you should definitely follow his blog. I have never disagreed with him before, and I have referred to the resources on his blog and been inspired by his success many times.
But I feel I must ask for caution in this case. To drop insulin with bad neuropathy and BG on the 300s without medical supervision can be very dangerous. The OP says that she has been "doing this" for 2 days, she is not keto adapted or even totally sure about how LC works regarding diabetes.
If she cuts grains and sugar and controls carbs, she will start losing weight without effort or risk. When the BG numbers start going down (and I mean below 200 after meals) she can then cut the quantity of insulin, little by little and always checking BG numbers. High blood glucose is much more dangerous than a slight slower weight loss.
@lukesydaisy if you're not changing your woe/medication with medical supervision and regular lab tests please, please always err on the side of caution.
Nothing will contribute to your health at this point like normal BG. LCHF will normalise your BG and your weight without risk. THEN you can drop medications. How long did it take to reach the point you're at now? You will start to feel benefits very soon, but this is science, not magic. Give it a few weeks/months.
::flowerforyou::0 -
^^agree0
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YES!!! Please heed what @KetoGirl83 said. Faster weight loss is not worth losing your vision or a dealing with a limb amputation, which maintaining glucose numbers in the 300's will lead to. And I say that as someone in the same boat as you. It's really tough to lose weight on insulin. I gained 60 lbs after starting insulin on an already overweight body. It sucks, but you are taking the right steps to reduce your dependency. And even if you can't eliminate it all together, achieving a reduction, while maintaining good blood glucose numbers will still help with the weight loss. Please hang in there. It gets better. I'm finally seeing the scale move now after 40 days. Take strength in the small successes and we'll celebrate those little milestones with you.0
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »lukesydaisy wrote: »(...)I've been taking insulin since 2013, and even though I'm only 33, I have some scary diabetes symptoms like really bad neuropathy. (...)
So, I've been doing this for....over 2 whole days now!!!! I have chosen not to take my insulin these days, since I'm worried it will drop my sugar low and I'll end up having to take in lots of carbs to stabilize. I figured I'd just gradually get it down quickly through the lack of carbs. The weird thing is that when I've tested it's been about 300 every single time, no matter if I test before or after a meal. (...)
(...)My case is similar to yours. The only advice I would give is to drop the insulin altogether, because insulin is a fat producing hormone. I did this one month into Keto. I was faithful to the 40 grams or less carbs a day. I didn't want the insulin to fight my attempts to lose weight. My BG's were a little high, but after a year or so, it steadily came down.
(...)
@DittoDan is awesome and @lukesydaisy you should definitely follow his blog. I have never disagreed with him before, and I have referred to the resources on his blog and been inspired by his success many times.
But I feel I must ask for caution in this case. To drop insulin with bad neuropathy and BG on the 300s without medical supervision can be very dangerous. The OP says that she has been "doing this" for 2 days, she is not keto adapted or even totally sure about how LC works regarding diabetes.
If she cuts grains and sugar and controls carbs, she will start losing weight without effort or risk. When the BG numbers start going down (and I mean below 200 after meals) she can then cut the quantity of insulin, little by little and always checking BG numbers. High blood glucose is much more dangerous than a slight slower weight loss.
@lukesydaisy if you're not changing your woe/medication with medical supervision and regular lab tests please, please always err on the side of caution.
Nothing will contribute to your health at this point like normal BG. LCHF will normalise your BG and your weight without risk. THEN you can drop medications. How long did it take to reach the point you're at now? You will start to feel benefits very soon, but this is science, not magic. Give it a few weeks/months.
::flowerforyou::
The trick is staying low carb, very low. Numbers 300 and lower will NOT immediately hurt you. I have had numbers higher than 400 when I wasn't controlling my sugars very well. If I didn't have a meter, I wouldn't of even known I was that high. Insulin injections is absolutely the worst way to control BG's anyway...
I still took my metformin (I don't anymore).
Go a month on Keto, do like I did, keep all your diabetic meds, check and do adjust downward your insulin, because you definetely don't want to "go low", (what a horrible experience!).
Then after you get adapted to Keto (in a month from now) check your BG's if they are 200 or less, ditch the insulin.
I hope this helps,
Dan0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »(...) I'm hoping this will really help with my diabetes and maybe even allow us to have another child, because the first one is pretty awesome.
(...)
This is one problem @DittoDan didn't have.
Seriously @lukesydaisy, normal BG is even more important for you because high BG immediately before/during pregnancy is dangerous not only for you but also for your baby. At the very least he'll have a much increased risk of being born with or developing diabetes himself.
Again, I can't praise enough Dr Bernstein's book, you'll find lots of info there. But even a quick Google search will give you plenty of results such as this:
https://www.joslin.org/info/Managing_Diabetes_During_Pregnancy.html
We all want to lose weight as fast as possible. And we do lose weight, fast and forever, many of us for the first time ever. Still, when forced to choose, health comes first, weight second.
I really don't want to start a he-says-I-say argument (sorry @DittoDan).
But @lukesydaisy, it's your health and your life. BG on the 300s are dangerous and will have consequences even if not immediately easy to spot (the good news is that most of those are reversible with excellent BG control). As for a pregnancy that starts at those values and/or messing with insulin when you're hoping to conceive, that's not something you should do based on an internet forum advice no matter how informed or helpful we try to be.
I do love your optimism - and there is reason to be optimistic, diabetes is one of the easiest diseases to reverse with LCHF and so many women conceived after changing their woe - but with such high stakes you need to be careful and/or get the support of a knowledgeable doctor. Preferably both.
Take care, be happy. All this will become much easier the longer you keep at it.
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Thanks again, everyone. I do feel like I should clarify, I wasn't just planning to ditch the insulin and think that this diet will magically and immediately cure everything...I just kind of wanted to see how it would be affected, and also really didn't want to start it out by crashing and having to take in lots of sugar. When I'm low, I'm in like a heart-palpitating, sweating, zombie like state and I start ransacking anything sugary I can find because I'm not thinking straight and it takes so long for me to feel back to normal.
My first little one is a miracle baby, because it was an unexpected pregnancy, I was new to insulin and wasn't really on the proper kinds/doses, and my a1c was 12.9!!! I was sure I was going to miscarry or have a baby with major or even minor birth defects, and he ended up being perfectly healthy. My diabetes was actually the best controlled it's ever been during and right after pregnancy (best a1c was 7ish, which still isn't that good). Not saying I want to risk it again, that's why I'm hoping this will help with many issues.0 -
@lukesydaisy Crashes are definitely scary and nerve wrecking. I recommend picking up some glucose tablets from the pharmacy and keeping them on hand while you're going through this transition. They will stabilise your blood sugar more efficiently and with fewer carbs. I used to just inhale everything sugary I could get my hands on when I crashed, but now, like you, I don't want a crash to screw up my diet, so I make sure I always have some glucose tabs handy. Though fortunately I haven't had to use them yet.0
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@lukesydaisy sounds good! Hope this WOL works for you as well as it has for others here.0
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As @PaleoInScotland says, glucose tablets are the best way to manage hypos. Keep them with you at all times, in an easy to reach form (no hard to open bottles or difficult blisters that you would struggle with if with shaking hands).
Just how likely are you to crash while transitioning to LC while taking insulin? Very likely, if you're not careful. But if you keep a detailed log of everything you eat, BG numbers before and after you eat, and the quantity of insulin taken, you can stay ahead and react before it hits you. Get one of those diaries with a page a day and take note of everything, with the time it happened. Also BG before you go to sleep, FBG and random BG during the day and/or if you're feeling in any way "not normal". It's boring for a while but will teach you so much about your body and make the transition much safer (besides being great info for a good doctor).
Because your body has been having high BG for some time, it's natural that you'll feel mild symptoms of a "low" with numbers that would for a normal person be high. Learn to identify those symptoms, that's when you should start very carefully lowering a tiny bit your insulin. Take your time, give your body time to adapt.
And I know that I am repeating myself but please get Dr Bernstein's book (read the comments on Amazon, many people owe their lives to this book). He explains this process in detail. There is no reason for you to have uncontrolled crashes or to "fix" them by "ransacking anything sugary" and confusing your body even further. Ideally you don't want either lows or highs, you want to teach your body to react to food within certain numbers. LC will take that interval to safe numbers.
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So one thing that has popped up a lot on here is the need to be working closely with a doctor. So I live in the sticks, and need to drive 45 minutes to 2 hours to get to the larger cities. The doctor I see now is the GP that our children's home uses, and lets just say that I don't think he's a very good doctor, but I just don't know how to go about finding one that's better. From my experience here in a small-town, very rural place, we're just kind of stuck with the doctors that are maybe not so good, but what can we do about it because good doctors with options don't always want to live in the sticks. I'd be willing to travel to San Antonio, Corpus, or Victoria for a good doctor, but I'm curious if there is any way to search for a doctor who believes in this kind of diet without having to do a trial and error of visiting tons of doctors. Are there websites or databases of HFLC-friendly doctors or places where people can recommend one? I used to be on a PCOS board that had a whole page to recommending doctors in different cities. That would be very helpful for me to know 1-2 that I can try out.0
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Something worth mentioning in the subject of hypos. When you feel low, test you bg. Since you've become used to high bg, you're likely to feel low when you're in normal range. If you're above 70, don't treat it yet. Test again in 10 minutes. If it's gone down, then treat with about 10g using the glucose tablets. Then test again about 15-20 minutes. If it's going up, then you should be fine but still test again in about 30 minutes.
Your body has the ability to provide the needed glucose to bring it back up. But not if its dropping too low too fast. And it is a little trickier with the IR, because of the reduced sensitivity of course. If you over treat a hypo or treat one that's not actually low because you "feel low" you're not helping to increase the sensitivity. Does that make sense?
My daughter used to feel low at 150 because she was so used to her normal being over 300. She would always want to treat it without testing first and of course just sent it soaring high again!
It can be hard because every molecule in your body will be screaming at you to eat everything in sight, but if you have a specific plan for how to deal with it, you can be more successful in being strong through it.
My sisters doctor diagnosed her as hypoglycemic years ago and told her she needed to eat more. She was over 200lbs at 5'4". I guess he thought she starved all the time. I tried to tell her the hypos were a symptom of IR, but she had faith in her doctor and what did I know. I tried to tell her that all the extra eating every time she got "the shakes" was just making her blood sugar high. She just kept saying "but I have low blood sugar, not high blood sugar". Fast forward two years and now she's T2D with bg in the 400's every day and also put on at least 50lbs from feeding the insulin.
So anyway, my only point is to make sure any feelings of low are actual lows.0 -
lukesydaisy wrote: »[(...) is any way to search for a doctor who believes in this kind of diet without having to do a trial and error of visiting tons of doctors. Are there websites or databases of HFLC-friendly doctors or places where people can recommend one?
@FIT_Goat @baconslave @Dragonwolf couldn't we at least try to have a thread with this info? We are not enough to have a comprehensive list, of course, but there's nothing like a personal reference. I'm sure there will be sites with that info and maybe someone already knows of them and we could add them to our resources?
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