Hubby, Keto and the battle of the Scale

klkateri · February 2016

I'm not sure what to do and I'm hoping for some advise, help, or anything at this point really!!

Here is the background. We are both heavy and I was doing strictly CICO and lost roughly 40-50 pounds over a year and then maintained a roughly 30 pound loss the next year. My SO was impressed but he couldn't handle the idea of counting everything all of the time.

He was surfing around on Reddit one day and came across all kinds of Keto posts and was curious and couldn't get over the results people where having. I, after having limited success with CICO, was curious but skeptical. But he was so into the idea that I did research for almost a year and had several conversations with my doctor who suggested, strongly, that I do it.

So, on January 11th (after the holidays and both of us being sick) we started on Keto. I am religious with my counting (Calories and macros) while my SO just eats and "kinda knows how many carbs he has had". I know my numbers, obsess over them, tweak them... try to get the most bang for my buck. Meanwhile the hubby just throws down.

Here we are, a little over a month later. I'm down 10 lbs (not a huge loss but I'll take it considering I have thyroid issues) and my clothes are defiantly fitting differently. Meanwhile, the hubby is throwing a fit as he has only lost a pound.

Part of me feels like, see... I told you to count but part of me also feels like I can't share my success too much around him because he gets so upset. This was HIS idea and HE wanted to do it and I'm just along for the ride.

So I guess what I need is some help or advise... or possible reasons he might not be losing. He is over 350 so part of me feels, like he shouldn't need to be too conservative to be losing either. Also, he primary eats what I eat and I come in around 20-40 carbs a day (40 is about the highest I get and usually on the weekends). Could something else be going on?! Thanks!!

Sunny_Bunny_ · February 2016

Could he be insulin resistant? Diabetic or pre diabetic? Men tend to want eat a lot of protein when doing the low carb thing and if that's the case and he's IR, which he might be without even knowing it. I'd actually bet he is honestly, a large protein intake could be causing an insulin spike and preventing fat burning.

wabmester · February 2016

It would really help him to count. It's not just for the carbs. The simple process of counting makes you more mindful of what you eat. Eating becomes more conscious and less unconscious.

It also gives you a better idea of the impact of what you're eating -- both calories and carbs.

If he won't count, you can count for him.

Or if he really is against the idea of counting, just tell him to shoot for no carbs. That makes it a no-brainer.

Sarahb29 · February 2016

Just because you are eating Keto foods does not mean you have unlimited calories. He very well could be eating more than he thinks and blowing his calorie counts causing him to stall or gain weight.

carom · February 2016

Hi, sorry I don't actually have any advise but I just wanted to say that I love the title of this thread, it sounds like a novel! Also congrats on your weight loss, 10lbs is an excellent loss! Good luck with your hubby. I cant get mine to give up beer

klkateri · February 2016

The insulin resistant or pre-diabetic never occurred to me. I know that I was close to pre-diabetic and that was why I started on Keto. As for too many calories, I have a feeling he eats too few. He just doesn't eat. He will snack but never eat. I can polish off half a chicken and a good portion of veggies and then some sugar free jello later. He won't. Now, I know he eats once I go to bed but there are very few non-Keto things for him to nosh on. Personally, I think it's either too much cheese or too much sugar free/low carb treats.

I have considered counting for him but again, with him eating after I go to sleep it would be a hard battle.

EDIT - He is a HUGE diet soda drinker though. Whereas I'll drink a glass with dinner maybe, he can demolish just under a 2 liter in night... could this be part of his issue?!

Dragonwolf · February 2016

klkateri wrote: »

The insulin resistant or pre-diabetic never occurred to me. I know that I was close to pre-diabetic and that was why I started on Keto. As for too many calories, I have a feeling he eats too few. He just doesn't eat. He will snack but never eat. I can polish off half a chicken and a good portion of veggies and then some sugar free jello later. He won't. Now, I know he eats once I go to bed but there are very few non-Keto things for him to nosh on. Personally, I think it's either too much cheese or too much sugar free/low carb treats.

I have considered counting for him but again, with him eating after I go to sleep it would be a hard battle.

EDIT - He is a HUGE diet soda drinker though. Whereas I'll drink a glass with dinner maybe, he can demolish just under a 2 liter in night... could this be part of his issue?!

Sounds like there are a lot of things. The cheese or diet soda could be it, but it's hard telling without some kind of logging.

While people keep calling it "counting," I think that triggers the wrong kind of connotation. "Counting" generally equates to "restricting." At the moment, we don't want him to restrict. We want him to just get a baseline for where he's at.

Consider putting it this way -- this is a scientific experiment, and in order to make changes, we need to find out where we are now. For a big guy like him, he probably doesn't need to weigh everything, but just writing it down with a general idea of how much he ate is a start. Ate half a package of deli meat? Well, we know that a full package is 8oz, so you probably ate about 4oz of it. Write it down for a week or two, then you can see whether it's too many calories, too few calories, or something throwing hormones off.

That said, guys tend to be big babies.

So, there's a chance you'll either need to tell him "suck it up, buttercup," or just let him whine about it and go back to his old habits until he's ready to actually put forth some effort. That whole "you can lead a horse to water..." thing.

BRobertson23 · February 2016

Is he "on his own" for any meals during the day? I know that sometimes when people feel "restricted" they will binge. I guess I would personally just ask him if he's been tracking his carbs, and if he says no, you could share that you feel like you've had some success with being a bit more mindful with your tracking, and perhaps he could see what happens in a week or 2 weeks with some more diligent tracking...keep the conversation light and let him direct it, but posing it as a suggestion might be helpful. You'll know him better than we will, so if you can't talk about this sort of thing, then maybe just work on being an example to him and he might see your success and start being more diligent himself. Good luck!

KnitOrMiss · February 2016

Another thing to get him on board with tracking for a bit is to tell him that you want to make sure he's eating enough! Because if he's not eating enough, he won't lose well either. Tell him it's not just about what he eats, but what combinations of foods, and how much at a time, etc. Appeal to the experimenter in him...

That, and I'd ask him what he misses most - and try to make those keto recipes. Maybe the foods you're eating are great for you, but don't really trip his trigger.

And if he's not getting enough sodium and water and such, he could be feeling crummy, which could add to him eating away his misery at night after you've gone to bed.

Way way too many factors to guess. Mix things up 2-4 weeks at a time... Good luck.

makomike · February 2016

My vote would be insulin resistant. Some say that counting calories on a keto diet is necessary, but I completely disagree with that. I don't count calories, but I do count macros. Eating over your macros for protein is an easy thing to do.

KnitOrMiss · February 2016

makomike wrote: »

My vote would be insulin resistant. Some say that counting calories on a keto diet is necessary, but I completely disagree with that. I don't count calories, but I do count macros. Eating over your macros for protein is an easy thing to do.

And yes, being insulin resistant, especially in the beginning (I'm in week 4 of a post-holiday reboot - will NOT be repeating this next year, promise to SELF), you're starving all the time, and your body keeps reacting as if you're dumping carbage into it, even when you're not close. Anything sweet tasting, especially as sickeningly sweet as diet drinks are are going to keep the insulin pumping which is going to keep the hunger raging and keep the body in fat storage mode.

I've been having insulin reactions to non-carby foods the past few weeks and it was like a light bulb just went on for me. Every time I'm having a insulin reaction (postprandial somnolence for me mostly - or immediate hunger), I'm basically having to restart my keto-adaption or just reboot it that day...because if I'm fat STORING I'm sure as heck not fat BURNING, which is what I was doing before my body was being stupid!

I might have to go back to intermittent fasting (eating breakfast, skipping lunch, eating dinner) to make my pancreas snap to again! *SIGH*

EDITED TO ADD: This leaves you feeling always hungry, leading to snacking, usually on substitutes for old favorites or things that make you "FEEL" better, keeping the cycle going, because really, our metabolisms need a break.... That's why IF is so effective for some folks.

mandycat223 · February 2016

I've heard of eating for two but dieting for two has to be a real drag. He's a grown up boy now and should be responsible for his own health and well being, which includes doing the necessary research and taking the appropriate actions for weight control. So far you've done all the work and taken on all the responsibility (and blame, apparently) for both of you. Eat right for yourself, stock the kitchen with the right things and tell Whatshisname to man up.

Sounds harsh but wives having to act like mothers gets on my nerves.

Sunny_Bunny_ · February 2016

Insulin resistance kinda makes not counting calories and naturally being able to keep from overeating on Keto a rare thing I think. It messes with your hunger hormones too much to trust them.
I think there may be sneaky eating going on. It would hard to admit especially since you are having success. But I don't think that suspicion should be mentioned.
The experiment sounds good to me. Pose some questions like "I wonder if you ate higher fat in the morning" or "I wonder if you limited artificially sweetened drinks to some certain number" or "I wonder if you had a cup of beef broth before lunch" ya know? Just pondering some ideas.
And, you said he was inspired by r/keto, maybe he could post on there and let them guide him a bit directly. He might be more likely to heed their advice if he seeks it out himself.

reblazed · February 2016

mandycat223 wrote: »

I've heard of eating for two but dieting for two has to be a real drag. He's a grown up boy now and should be responsible for his own health and well being, which includes doing the necessary research and taking the appropriate actions for weight control. So far you've done all the work and taken on all the responsibility (and blame, apparently) for both of you. Eat right for yourself, stock the kitchen with the right things and tell Whatshisname to man up.

Sounds harsh but wives having to act like mothers gets on my nerves.

So true

SamandaIndia · February 2016

Diet soda, cheese and artificial sweeteners plus evening sabotage. Could he be an angel by day and not eating enough then binge eating while you sleep? Many here find artificial sweeteners stall weight loss. Could cut that for a month n see if anything changes. Up to him to want to change. You being a patient role model could help. 10lbs is amazing!!

LINIA · February 2016

You did tell us about the zero cal sodas, the cheese and the keto friendly snacks, but i have to ask, is your DH drinking enough plain water everyday? Is he drinking bone broth or bullion? Has he been able to enjoy pickles?

Certain foods, when consumed, really cut the need to snack way down..he is low carb but is he HF enough?

Sarahb29 · February 2016

2 liters of diet soda a night, HOLY MOLY. That could be exactly why he's not losing. Some sweeteners react to glucose levels in your body differently and knock you out of ketosis. At 350lbs there's a good chance he may be pre diabetic and not even know it. I advise you/your hubby to see a Dr and get some bloodwork done if you can, it's good to have a baseline anyway.

Don't log his calories for him, once he gets fed up enough he will do it.

Sarahb29 · February 2016

All that being said I am similar to him in that most of my eating was always at night. This meant I ended up choosing to eliminate breakfast (except for coffee and a bit of HWC), had a small lunch, and become a fattie at night (lol).

For example last night I ate a 1lb ribeye with asparagus and brussel sprouts with Almond milk to drink. That's about 10-12oz of fatty meat. Both sides had olive oil and the brussel sprouts had bacon and walnuts in them. The flipside to that is the only other meal I ate that day were eggs and bacon at lunch at noon, and didn't eat again until noon today. I am still in ketosis.

Now this isn't a normal meal for me but it's an example of what he could do once in awhile. Good tradeoff? For me absolutely. For others, some people can't deal without having breakfast.

lowjax75 · February 2016

I don't have much to offer. We are kind of the opposite. I count everything and my wife just wings it. She was doing great then took off for a birthday meal. Back in October. And has never really gotten it going again. I count and weigh almost everything. I don't know how to help her other than be encouraging when she eats on plan and help her by cooking more and doing more to guide her. She knows that I know more than she does around this though and will often accept my comments if they are said with love and not nagging. I want to help her and she knows it.

nvmomketo · February 2016

I agree with everything already said. Insulin resistance, higher protein and sweeteners may combine to create hunger and result in eating more calories.

When my carbs or protein creep up my hunger does too (along with my blood glucose darnit) so I end up eating more and stalling. If my carbs hit 20 g (just over 5%) lately, that will slow me up. For protein, If I go much above 70g (20%) I see the same thing.... And I tend to do my snacking when everyone else is in bed. My pork rinds and cheese dip may be low carb but I definitely do NOT need those calories. I look like I eat very little since I skip breakfast for bullet proof coffee (and often lunch, or just a light lunch). I eat a normal dinner and then when I overeat it is in the evening. To my family, it could look like I ate very little.

Perhaps try logging his foods for him for a few days, or on a weekend when you are seeing him eat.

CMYKRGB · February 2016

Without accountability, there can't be success. He needs to log everything so he can really truly know what he's putting into his mouth. If he doesn't want to log his food, then he doesn't want to be accountable, and that means he's not really committed to making the change in his diet.

moe0303 · February 2016

One thing about low carb in general is that there is very little leeway given to carbs. If the general limit given here is 50 grams and you count about 40, it is very possible that he is not even reaching the low carb threshold. Also, you said he snacks a lot. Snacking is very hard to track for people who are serious about it. It must be damned near impossible to wing it.

FIT_Goat · February 2016

The big thing that I would focus on is no snacking. Full Stop!

If you are hungry, you must eat a full meal. Doesn't matter what time of day it is, you must eat a full low-carb meal. It should be large enough that you are not hungry for another 4-5 hours, at least.

No sweet things. Track all the carbs! And dang-it, no nuts. Nuts are snack foods and they are "keto" so people abuse the crap out of them.

It will be hard. He will whine, he will cry, he might even give up. But, this is how you do it and eat what you want.

In the long run, he might have days where he wants a snack. But, all day snacking is a good way to never learn your hunger signals. You just constantly eat, you never are full but you're never hungry either.

Edit: I used to be an all-day snacker myself. Once I started eating meals and really keto-adapted, I broke that habit. Now, I find myself comfortably eating only twice a day most days (sometimes thrice, but just as often only once). I don't intentionally force myself to only eat twice. It's just that I only get hungry about twice a day. I don't snack, except on rare occasions, and that brings my eating periods down to very small times of the day.

klkateri · February 2016

Last night, I suggested to him just jotting down his foods so we could figure out why's he not losing and he already started complaining and responded with "Nevermind, I'll just be fat.", which of course, breaks my heart because I care for him and his health and would like him around for a long time.

Here are some of the points brought up that I can answer:

-Day eating; nope, he doesn't eat at all during the day less a coffee with cream. I've tried putting together a little lunch for him (some pepperoni slices, some cheese, a hard boiled egg) and he might take it but it'll take him three days to eat it. However, I don't want to make his lunch for him as he is an adult but if I'm making mine, I suppose it's not a big deal but I just know he won't eat it so it feels like time wasted.

-Eating Enough; I don't think so and i've been saying this to him for years. I see how much I can eat and he just doesn't. He was raised with some very warped ideas on food and they still effect him very much today (When he was a kid, if they got started to get a little heavy, their parents just wouldn't buy food). This is still deeply ingrained and I'm not too sure how to break him of this mindset of not eating will make me skinny.

- Water; No he doesn't drink a lot of water and he admits that. Again, part of it goes back to being a kid where soda was so forbidden. I've tried to not buy it but he has a job and a car and will just buy it anyways. I've tried to get him to try things like Mio or Crystal Light were he can control the amount or even fruit infused water but he hates it.

-Snacking; Yes, all night long and I know it. I will wake up to empty cottage cheese containers and empty bags of pork rinds. I'm a snacker as well but I count it and log it so I know what to cut back if I start stalling or gaining (Currently for me, its nuts!!)

-Health/Hormones/Pre-Diabetic; wouldn't know as he refuses to go to the doctor. I mean, just refuses. He needed stitches once (Just one or two for a very deep cut) and still wouldn't go. He just won't go. Hands down, won't do it. I have considered getting a blood glucose monitor for myself and testing him as well but with going back to the night eating, I know I wouldn't get a good number.

Hope this helps!!

moe0303 · February 2016

In the end, he has got to want to do it. He has to have the desperation to do it for himself. It seems like, for whatever reason, he is not ready to surrender his pride and follow the requirements for this way of eating.

Has he ever considered other types of spiritual or mental help?

KarlaYP · February 2016

Wow! That's challenging, for sure! My recommendation is for you to continue on your successful way and hopefully he will see the results, and decide he wants some for himself. We can't force anyone to eat a certain way.

My husband didn't feel this woe was healthy, and was worried about me after I began almost a year ago. About two months ago I got him to watch the movie "Fed Up" on Netflix, and he saw the changes in me. He wasn't very overweight, but cut his carbs, and has now lost 16 pounds! (Weird, it was right at the time I got to where I weighed less than him for the first time! We now weigh the same!). He is loosely low carb, and doesn't track either, but has been able to use it to drop weight we didn't realize he needed to lose!

The eating at night seems to be one of his biggest problems to prevent losing weight. It not easy to break the habit of eating in front of the tv at night! My mantra of, "I'm making the choice" to do whatever the challenge of the moment happened to be, helped me succeed with this woe! I hope he is able to eventually change his mindset and find the level that works to reduce his hunger and snacking. He has to be the one to make that decision though! I'm sure there's a lot of frustration because you want him to be healthy too!! Stubbornness is hard to break, but I promise he will be watching you, and hopefully he will decide to reach for success when he sees yours!

Hugs for you hun! Hang in there! You're a good wife!!

klkateri · February 2016

moe0303 wrote: »

Has he ever considered other types of spiritual or mental help?

Yes, but the effects only last a couple months at best. I guess what I want most is to help him without being a nag. If I could do it for him I would and I don't mind helping but part of the whole problem is that this was his thing and I was just along for the ride and I think me doing fairly good is just upsetting to him.

wabmester · February 2016

So he's upset because you're beating him at his own game?

If he's competitive at all (which most guys are), that should motivate him. Simply keep on doing what you're doing -- succeed on your own. If he asks what you're doing differently, just say "not much -- just logging my food."

Honestly, you're helping him a bunch just by sharing his environment and eating the right stuff.

Sunny_Bunny_ · February 2016

I think you just have to keep doing it for you and let him do his own thing.
One of the reasons I started Keto was because I hoped to be an influence on my T1D daughter that cut back on carbs. She is obsessed with her weight and has never managed her diabetes well. I knew I couldn't make her change things but I hoped that I could show her a better way.
Well, it took 9 months, but she finally joined me s couple weeks ago on her own and has been doing great with it.
This may have to be your approach too.

deksgrl · February 2016

He has to get to the point where he will do whatever it takes. For my SO, what it took was his doctor saying to him, "do you want me to keep you alive?"...... Before that he just never committed to anything for long enough to make a difference. He has lost 55 pounds doing LC on his doctor's advice.

chaoticdreams · February 2016

He sounds a little like my hubby. He too refuses to track or log anything and half a** does a diet, any diet. Last year his Dr. put him on a low carb diet and he did really well on it when he focused, lost 70 lbs within 5 months, but lately, he's not lost a thing because he just flat out refuses to buckle down. He complains all the time about the scale not moving, but won't listen to me when I say lay off the french fries and junk. /shrugs. Not much we can do unfortunately. It has to be their decision, although it is frustrating when they want to lose but just don't want to put much effort into the losing bit, then complain nonstop about not losing LOL. All I can do is lead by example and hope he realizes changes take effort.

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Hubby, Keto and the battle of the Scale

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