Moderate Low-Carb Support
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Great approach: take what you want, and leave the rest!baconslave wrote: »Foamroller wrote: »I'm here for you as well! You know I've experimented a lot, feel free to peep at my diary for fall 2014, winter 2015.
I agree with most of the carbs from vegs. I think the best level for me was somewhere around 70g net. YMMV.
The slow carb protocol could fit your current experiment. https://www.reddit.com/r/4hourbodyslowcarb/
Just curious, what about keto is the correlation to Sjogren's syndrome? Could it be some nutrients you lack while on keto?
Re Resistant Starch. From reading about it, it seems there's a lot of variation about effects between individuals AND type/volume. Some respond to potato starch, others respond to green banana. It also takes a bit of time to repopulate with the good bacteria, I believe.
With your active lifestyle and big family to take care of, I'd guess you're still in NK enough to keep Keto Adaptation at 80g. If it's important for you to NOT be making ketones, are you using blood meter? Because as you said, most of us make ketones during late stages of sleep, no matter the diet. I could be wrong, but my guess is that there's a biproduct of keto lifestyle that worsens your condition, not ketones themselves.
Look into "protein misfolding". My understanding is that is the underlying cause for most of what's wrong with our bodies.
I will encourage you to keep experimenting with different types of vegs. Tweak and tinker and monitor your symptoms and food diary closely to see if any patterns. Good luck, hun!
Thank you!
Many good questions. It would be very difficult to tease out the exact cause. I have a low-level of mucus/moisture production throughout the day now, but have waves of fatigue and extra drying periodically. One of those hits in the middle of the night.
But yes, it's probably NOT the ketones themselves. I think I have Sjogren's genes anyway (my father has this too I found out. He just hid it well, and they didn't know what to call it back then when he started having symptoms. Quite rare for a male, but it does happen), I just reached the point in my life where they've been encoded to activate, and in conjunction with the decrease in mucus production ketosis can cause in some people, and I'm one of those, it's just too much for me to tolerate. It's not the keto, really. It's ME and my genes on keto.
All I know for sure is that it gets better (not cured but manageable) when I'm definitely OUT. And when I go back in and stay all my symptoms go nuclear. There's a marked increase in symptoms and an increase in frequency and severity of Mummy-episodes.
I will check into "protein misfolding." It sounds fascinating. And I've been exposed to Ferris a little. I'll check it out and take from it what is good and leave the rest, just like I do with everything else.
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Foamroller wrote: »I'm here for you as well! You know I've experimented a lot, feel free to peep at my diary for fall 2014, winter 2015.
I agree with most of the carbs from vegs. I think the best level for me was somewhere around 70g net. YMMV.
The slow carb protocol could fit your current experiment. https://www.reddit.com/r/4hourbodyslowcarb/
Just curious, what about keto is the correlation to Sjogren's syndrome? Could it be some nutrients you lack while on keto?
Re Resistant Starch. From reading about it, it seems there's a lot of variation about effects between individuals AND type/volume. Some respond to potato starch, others respond to green banana. It also takes a bit of time to repopulate with the good bacteria, I believe.
With your active lifestyle and big family to take care of, I'd guess you're still in NK enough to keep Keto Adaptation at 80g. If it's important for you to NOT be making ketones, are you using blood meter? Because as you said, most of us make ketones during late stages of sleep, no matter the diet. I could be wrong, but my guess is that there's a biproduct of keto lifestyle that worsens your condition, not ketones themselves.
Look into "protein misfolding". My understanding is that is the underlying cause for most of what's wrong with our bodies.
I will encourage you to keep experimenting with different types of vegs. Tweak and tinker and monitor your symptoms and food diary closely to see if any patterns. Good luck, hun!
I personally found Tim Ferris' stuff awful, but to each their own. I read 4-hour body, and listened to some blogs. I found the South Beach Principles more tweak able, and less wooey. But that may be because I'd already been slow carb for 10 years when I read it.
I'll skip over the woo. He does occasionally have a good idea or 2. I think I have a copy of South Beach in the basement that my mom dumped on me when she moved to SC and in with Grams. Places to look and ideas to glean, which is good.
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baconslave wrote: »It would be very difficult to tease out the exact cause. I have a low-level of mucus/moisture production throughout the day now, but have waves of fatigue and extra drying periodically.
I thought about keeping a blog once, but I was too lazy. I only wrote one blog post.
Mucus, Carbs, and Fiber0 -
Foamroller wrote: »I'm here for you as well! You know I've experimented a lot, feel free to peep at my diary for fall 2014, winter 2015.
I agree with most of the carbs from vegs. I think the best level for me was somewhere around 70g net. YMMV.
The slow carb protocol could fit your current experiment. https://www.reddit.com/r/4hourbodyslowcarb/
Just curious, what about keto is the correlation to Sjogren's syndrome? Could it be some nutrients you lack while on keto?
Re Resistant Starch. From reading about it, it seems there's a lot of variation about effects between individuals AND type/volume. Some respond to potato starch, others respond to green banana. It also takes a bit of time to repopulate with the good bacteria, I believe.
With your active lifestyle and big family to take care of, I'd guess you're still in NK enough to keep Keto Adaptation at 80g. If it's important for you to NOT be making ketones, are you using blood meter? Because as you said, most of us make ketones during late stages of sleep, no matter the diet. I could be wrong, but my guess is that there's a biproduct of keto lifestyle that worsens your condition, not ketones themselves.
Look into "protein misfolding". My understanding is that is the underlying cause for most of what's wrong with our bodies.
I will encourage you to keep experimenting with different types of vegs. Tweak and tinker and monitor your symptoms and food diary closely to see if any patterns. Good luck, hun!
Thank you!
Many good questions. It would be very difficult to tease out the exact cause. I have a low-level of mucus/moisture production throughout the day now, but have waves of fatigue and extra drying periodically. One of those hits in the middle of the night.
But yes, it's probably NOT the ketones themselves. I think I have Sjogren's genes anyway (my father has this too I found out. He just hid it well, and they didn't know what to call it back then when he started having symptoms. Quite rare for a male, but it does happen), I just reached the point in my life where they've been encoded to activate, and in conjunction with the decrease in mucus production ketosis can cause in some people, and I'm one of those, it's just too much for me to tolerate. It's not the keto, really. It's ME and my genes on keto.
All I know for sure is that it gets better (not cured but manageable) when I'm definitely OUT. And when I go back in and stay all my symptoms go nuclear. There's a marked increase in symptoms and an increase in frequency and severity of Mummy-episodes.
I will check into "protein misfolding." It sounds fascinating. And I've been exposed to Ferris a little. I'll check it out and take from it what is good and leave the rest, just like I do with everything else.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Foamroller wrote: »I'm here for you as well! You know I've experimented a lot, feel free to peep at my diary for fall 2014, winter 2015.
I agree with most of the carbs from vegs. I think the best level for me was somewhere around 70g net. YMMV.
The slow carb protocol could fit your current experiment. https://www.reddit.com/r/4hourbodyslowcarb/
Just curious, what about keto is the correlation to Sjogren's syndrome? Could it be some nutrients you lack while on keto?
Re Resistant Starch. From reading about it, it seems there's a lot of variation about effects between individuals AND type/volume. Some respond to potato starch, others respond to green banana. It also takes a bit of time to repopulate with the good bacteria, I believe.
With your active lifestyle and big family to take care of, I'd guess you're still in NK enough to keep Keto Adaptation at 80g. If it's important for you to NOT be making ketones, are you using blood meter? Because as you said, most of us make ketones during late stages of sleep, no matter the diet. I could be wrong, but my guess is that there's a biproduct of keto lifestyle that worsens your condition, not ketones themselves.
Look into "protein misfolding". My understanding is that is the underlying cause for most of what's wrong with our bodies.
I will encourage you to keep experimenting with different types of vegs. Tweak and tinker and monitor your symptoms and food diary closely to see if any patterns. Good luck, hun!
I personally found Tim Ferris' stuff awful, but to each their own. I read 4-hour body, and listened to some blogs. I found the South Beach Principles more tweak able, and less wooey. But that may be because I'd already been slow carb for 10 years when I read it.
I'll skip over the woo. He does occasionally have a good idea or 2. I think I have a copy of South Beach in the basement that my mom dumped on me when she moved to SC and in with Grams. Places to look and ideas to glean, which is good.0 -
daylitemag wrote: »@baconslave I have been off and on experiencing dry eyes. I don't know why but it has me a bit worried. Doesn't sound anywhere near your issue but it is annoying. I will be checking back on this thread. I don't want mess with my vision but also need to be careful I don't sabotage my weight loss. I have been experimenting with a few extra carbs. I occasionally have half an apple with breakfast.
Dry eyes can be caused by so many different things. Age, a minor deficiency or some kind, ... Mine is so acute because of the suspected Sjogren's genes I have. So I'm starting from a mucus deficient state, and then I added more stress to myself.
Get some lubricating gel drops to use when they are the driest. Visine is crap. Get gel drops for dry eye.
The dr recommended taking a lot of fish oil. He has dry eye and it helps him. I haven't noticed a difference, but I take it anyway.
PSA: If you start getting cornea erosions at night (which is your lid sticks to your cornea and painfully pulls it away. Fricking ouch. Let me tell you) see your eye dr. Scar tissue can form from that. And once it happens your cornea is weak, and it can easily happen again. I'm sure my glasses prescrip is going to change. My vision hasn't cleared up completely this time from the last episode. The last one formed over my pupil, and it was BAD.
And this is for everyone, if you end up with terrible night-crap like this, and Restasis doesn't work for you, suggest the idea of wearing contacts only at night to your opthamologist. It has worked wonders. I love one of my eye drs. He is younger, and he thinks out of the box and had this idea. I still have to put in goop at night with them, my eyes get bone dry-it's insane, but I haven't had an erosion in over a week.hellobaconplease wrote: »I'm in! I have gestational diabetes, I am finding keto hard (impossible really) during pregnancy and don't want to do it any more anyway. I still need to watch my carbs though obviously.
The balance is so hard :-(
I had GD with my youngest. I didn't do keto, but I did do moderate carb and did well. He was born healthy and too darn smart for his own good.0 -
baconslave wrote: »It would be very difficult to tease out the exact cause. I have a low-level of mucus/moisture production throughout the day now, but have waves of fatigue and extra drying periodically.
I thought about keeping a blog once, but I was too lazy. I only wrote one blog post.
Mucus, Carbs, and Fiber
So much interesting!no_day_but_2day wrote: »
Honestly, I'm not really sure if I'm in it or not. I'm not going to spend the money on a glucose meter and the keto sticks aren't showing that I'm in it either. BUT, I do feel fantastic with how I'm eating and the biggest thing is that it is sustainable and something I can do forever. Since I do lift though, I eat 1gram of protein per lean body mass and sometimes more if I'm weight lifting a lot that day. Since KETO is more about how many carbs you're eating and not about the amount of protein or fat you eat, I've lowered my fat just a tad which allows for a little more protein in my calorie allowance.
That's perfect! Whatever is most healthy for your body, makes you feel great and is sustainable as a lifestyle. That's the key.Ringbearer2 wrote: »
@baconslave, lol, looks like I've been doing carbs in reverse order. Typical. Thanks for the podcast rec.... always looking for something to listen to when I'm working around the house.
I do that too. And when I take walks outside. Podcasts!
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My eyes are quite dry and I also have glaucoma and growing cataracts, so I was searching for nutrients that might help. I found info on the Dr. Mercola website. Maybe it would give you some ideas/help? articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/04/13/protect-eyesight.aspx
I followed his recommendation and ordered a good krill oil that also has astaxathin in it. Hoping it helps!0 -
no_day_but_2day wrote: »KarlynKeto wrote: »no_day_but_2day wrote: »Hi. I'm low carb as well. I was KETO at the beginning of the year but I truly missed broccoli and spinach and pretty much just all veggies as well. I average between 40-60 actual carbs and 30-40 net carbs now depending if I have chia seeds/flax seed that day (that ups the actual and lowers the net). I have about a whole bag of broccoli (300 grams for dinner) and 200grams of spinach for my lunch salad and breakfast is usually super low carb (eggs/turkey sausage). However, I am completely content with still not eating sweet potatoes or rice or bread or even low carb bread/tortillas. Just haven't felt a need. I still don't eat fruit on a regular basis either but if I do want a sweet treat I do HWC with raspberries or blackberries since those are the lowest carb fruit I believe.
Good Luck!
Are you not keto in those macros? Your current range is very much like the macros I have daily, and I stay well into keto. And I have plenty of green veggies too. But everyone is different. I wouldn't give up veggies either, so if it meant them or keto the veggies win.
Honestly, I'm not really sure if I'm in it or not. I'm not going to spend the money on a glucose meter and the keto sticks aren't showing that I'm in it either. BUT, I do feel fantastic with how I'm eating and the biggest thing is that it is sustainable and something I can do forever. Since I do lift though, I eat 1gram of protein per lean body mass and sometimes more if I'm weight lifting a lot that day. Since KETO is more about how many carbs you're eating and not about the amount of protein or fat you eat, I've lowered my fat just a tad which allows for a little more protein in my calorie allowance.
Just a hunch, but I would bet you are in keto to some extent. Or you go in/out often. Glad you feel great, in the end that is what really matters. I have a blood measuring tool which I do weekly, and is why I know I stay well into keto with pretty much the same way of eating you describe. And I feel great too. I know everyone is different though. I do cardio a few times a week, walk 3-5 miles per day on most days, which helps me burn any glucose I consume. I couldn't do this WOE if it meant cutting out the veggies and fiber. I feel like I have to get a bit creative just to get them in, but I do and can stay in keto. 0 -
Thanks for the advice @baconslave . I'm going to get some of those gel drops...he says squinting at his computer screen because his eyes are so dry. Luckily, I have not had anything like what you describe at night time. I seem fine when I'm sleeping. I mostly notice the dry eyes in the evening at the end of the day.0
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Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.1
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auntstephie321 wrote: »Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.
I've been eating oats and am having gnocchi tonight, and have reintroduced bananas.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.
I've been eating oats and am having gnocchi tonight, and have reintroduced bananas.
I'm going to try to get in some quinoa possibly. It's really hard to change my brain again lol.0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.
I've been eating oats and am having gnocchi tonight, and have reintroduced bananas.
I'm going to try to get in some quinoa possibly. It's really hard to change my brain again lol.
I know, I'm the same. I can't believe how seriously I struggled to up my carbs in the beginning... I'm still staying away from junky carbs though. I'm sure if i ate donuts, chocolate cake etc etc it would be a doddle.0 -
hi everyone. I am with you there on the 40-60 carbs a day. that what my doc wants me at and larger portions of protein. I was on a hiatus with some health issues. but I am back now and could use some support from the moderate carbers!
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Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.
I've been eating oats and am having gnocchi tonight, and have reintroduced bananas.
I'm going to try to get in some quinoa possibly. It's really hard to change my brain again lol.
I know, I'm the same. I can't believe how seriously I struggled to up my carbs in the beginning... I'm still staying away from junky carbs though. I'm sure if i ate donuts, chocolate cake etc etc it would be a doddle.
Exactly, I could eat chips and fries and hit 100 no problem. I don't want that though.1 -
I'm pretty picky about what I'll "spend" my carbs on. Last night it was water chestnuts in my stir fry. Crunchy and delicious. If I use them on something with high sugar content (like mango or pineapple)all I want to do is eat sweets for hours.
Crap. Now I want a fruit salad.0 -
daylitemag wrote: »Thanks for the advice @baconslave . I'm going to get some of those gel drops...he says squinting at his computer screen because his eyes are so dry. Luckily, I have not had anything like what you describe at night time. I seem fine when I'm sleeping. I mostly notice the dry eyes in the evening at the end of the day.
Just another endorsement for the gel eye drops
I get through a bottle of that stuff a week, it's the only way I can get through the work day.
I've had dry eyes for years because of too much computer work and have relied heavily on the drops, as recommended by my eye doc when the problem initially started. Now, though, since cutting my carbs down to under 20, I've had massive blood vessel hemorrhages in the whites of my eyes. My doc hasn't been too worried though, he's done all the diabetic scans and eye imaging, and the important parts of my eyes are okay. I told him about my diet and he told me to just increase the use of my eye drops, he was pleased to hear how well my diet was affecting my blood sugar as of course that's important for my vision.
I also have pretty chronic blepharitis too, which contributes to the problem, which isn't surprising as I also have rosacea. I'm sure this contributes to why the reduced mucus production from my diet affects me more than others. Clearly me and my bacteria don't get along. Can't wait for gut biome research to make some progress. Until then, I'm continuing to eat fermented foods and am back to eating more non starchy veg, along with dumping gallons of eye drops into my eyes. Haven't had a hemorrhage in about a month now.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.
I've been eating oats and am having gnocchi tonight, and have reintroduced bananas.
I'm going to try to get in some quinoa possibly. It's really hard to change my brain again lol.
I know, I'm the same. I can't believe how seriously I struggled to up my carbs in the beginning... I'm still staying away from junky carbs though. I'm sure if i ate donuts, chocolate cake etc etc it would be a doddle.
You're starting to sound like a south beacher! (and that's not a bad thing!)0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.
I've been eating oats and am having gnocchi tonight, and have reintroduced bananas.
I haven't tried to go much above 50-60 yet but do adding things like carrots, sweet potatoes, berries, etc., help? Or do you pretty much need to add grains to get up to 100?0 -
It's really easy to get to 100 with just fruit and the occasional potato, sweet potato, etc. But since I also watch sugars, I can't have much fruit. Most days I am around 50---I just set my limit at 100 as the "you shall not pass" threshold. 0
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Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.
I've been eating oats and am having gnocchi tonight, and have reintroduced bananas.
I'm going to try to get in some quinoa possibly. It's really hard to change my brain again lol.
I know, I'm the same. I can't believe how seriously I struggled to up my carbs in the beginning... I'm still staying away from junky carbs though. I'm sure if i ate donuts, chocolate cake etc etc it would be a doddle.
Exactly. It's ridiculously hard. I end up eating an apple or a couple Halos. After I've already had a small serving of beans at supper. Nuts... Now if I can actually find Quinoa... WTF, Appalachia, really?!?! I probably have to go to the Earthfare the next town over to find it. It was RIDICULOUS trying to find the coconut milk when I was doing a dairy elim.
I am getting used to it though. I'm looking forward to an enormous baby spinach salad for my fast breaker. NOM! I'm wanting to try my hand at making some parsnip chips...if I can find parsnips and they aren't too expensive. I love my pork rinds, but I need to keep the fat from getting crazy. I have some pounds to loose that have crept up over this BS I've been going through. Plus the higher-carb water weight. Bah!macchiatto wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »Wow what a mind f intentionally trying to increase your carbs is. I'm not even good at keto most of the time but trying to buy stuff that works in the 100g range is so difficult for me. Stuff that normally I wouldn't purchase, would actually fit in a higher range. But I'm so trained to not buy those things. However I can't figure out how to get my carbs higher without them currently. Grrr I'm so confused.
I've been eating oats and am having gnocchi tonight, and have reintroduced bananas.
I haven't tried to go much above 50-60 yet but do adding things like carrots, sweet potatoes, berries, etc., help? Or do you pretty much need to add grains to get up to 100?
That will help. Especially the sweet potato. I pretty much had to add the beans or piece of fruit or I won't make it. I haven't tried sweet potato yet. I didn't like them before. Of course I didn't like brussel sprouts, sauerkraut, or beans before either. My palate has grown-up. 0
