Moderate Low-Carb Support

baconslave

We have a lot of very active keto-folk here. But I know we have a lot of moderate low-carbers. By which I mean anyone who prefers to stay the heck out of ketosis. Ketosis, we don't want you.

Due to my health issues, Sjogren's Syndrome symptoms which have caused my eyes to go apocalyptic Dry Eye and cause corneal rips at night, I've moved permanently up to moderate carb (around 100g/day). I noticed that my symptoms decrease by half whenever I stay out of ketosis. Last weekend, I tried going back to keto, to disastrous effect. I had multiple rips each night, even with all the goop and drops and constant reapplication. Days were peppered with fatigue and Mummy episodes. My vision is still blurred a little, even though I've been wearing contacts at night and goopy ointment to protect my corneas from Mummy-Syndrome for almost a week. I go into ketosis, and I dry out like Nefertiti. White-tongue-level mouth dryness, burning dry sinuses, and really pissed-off sandpaper eyes. It's my thing. Yay me.

I love love love keto. Sadly, for some reason, which I suspect is my unique screwed-up DNA-cocktail, keto hates me. If I look back, I can see signs of it slowly building up for about a year. And at night while I sleep, I go into ketosis naturally, which is what happens to humans. I'm hoping my drunk-genes will calm down soon and quit that BS reaction.

Anyway. I don't know what to do with myself. This moderate carb biz is like a new language to me after being sub-50g for almost 2 years. All I've know is the keto-community. I only speak keto. ARGHHHHHHH!

So this thread is for moderate low-carbers. Support, shop-talk, ideas, chit-chat, whatever.
You've got 2 mods who aren't VLC now. Me and @Sabine_Stroehm (I summon you for ideas. I'm trying to incorporate some slow-carb into the mix. )

Come play! I'm weirded out and lonely.
(I might possibly be invoking a bit of hyperbole here... )

KnitOrMiss

I'm looking at having to switch to something like this too. I'm waiting for my Endo appointment (supposed to be this Friday, but might have to postpone a week or month, due to funds)...to decide next step. I don't miss veggies really, but I have been having more acid problems, etc.

baconslave

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

I'm looking at having to switch to something like this too. I'm waiting for my Endo appointment (supposed to be this Friday, but might have to postpone a week or month, due to funds)...to decide next step. I don't miss veggies really, but I have been having more acid problems, etc.

I didn't miss veggies either. I like some, but I happily did without. My mind did anyway. My body says, "What you talkin' bout, Willis!"

auntstephie321

I'm trying to stay more in this arena as well. I've been either all or nothing and swing back and forth from one day to the next. My body doesn't like that, and trying to get out of bed on a Monday morning after a carb binge Sunday, sucks!

I hate to get all my carbs from sweets or grain like products. So I think the other option is veggies. Though when I visited my sister last year she made a lot of stuff with quinoa and garbanzo beans I didn't react poorly to that at all. So maybe more quinoa and garbanzo beans will help me stay a little higher but not all from crap. I only like a few veggies and even when I eat them it doesn't add up to much.

I'm interested in more ideas too.

Ringbearer2

I'm moderate (less than 100) carb but low sugar. I eat the occasional starchy veg or bit of bread, but most of my carbs come from salad vegetables. oh, and wine. . for someone that used to subsist on Dr Pepper until dinner time, I feel like I've made some progress.

KnitOrMiss

Yeah, lettuce and I still are not friends. Apparently it's a no-gallbladder related situation that can arise. I didn't have it the first 15 years or so, but now, it's surfaced. I hope I can still eat kale and spinach when cooked into soup. Apple cider vinegar helps some with the gastro-distress side, but it still doesn't get "processed" before exiting the body again.

Does anyone know of any research into digestive problems (everything running through way too quickly) when gallbladderless? I've been told that if things don't stay in "processing" 24-48 hours, my body is not digesting things well. Dinner last night (7 pm) made an appearance, at least the Romaine parts, at about 10 am... UGH

KnitOrMiss

Also, does anyone on a more moderate plan do less carbs in the morning/during the day, with more carbs at night? That seems like it would work well for me. I wouldn't want any sleepy side effects in the AM/at lunch, but I could do with a carb-coma induced earlier bedtime. LOL

DittoDan

baconslave wrote: »

We have a lot of very active keto-folk here. But I know we have a lot of moderate low-carbers. By which I mean anyone who prefers to stay the heck out of ketosis. Ketosis, we don't want you.

Due to my health issues, Sjogren's Syndrome symptoms which have caused my eyes to go apocalyptic Dry Eye and cause corneal rips at night, I've moved permanently up to moderate carb (around 100g/day). I noticed that my symptoms decrease by half whenever I stay out of ketosis. Last weekend, I tried going back to keto, to disastrous effect. I had multiple rips each night, even with all the goop and drops and constant reapplication. Days were peppered with fatigue and Mummy episodes. My vision is still blurred a little, even though I've been wearing contacts at night and goopy ointment to protect my corneas from Mummy-Syndrome for almost a week. I go into ketosis, and I dry out like Nefertiti. White-tongue-level mouth dryness, burning dry sinuses, and really pissed-off sandpaper eyes. It's my thing. Yay me.

I love love love keto. Sadly, for some reason, which I suspect is my unique screwed-up DNA-cocktail, keto hates me. If I look back, I can see signs of it slowly building up for about a year. And at night while I sleep, I go into ketosis naturally, which is what happens to humans. I'm hoping my drunk-genes will calm down soon and quit that BS reaction.

Anyway. I don't know what to do with myself. This moderate carb biz is like a new language to me after being sub-50g for almost 2 years. All I've know is the keto-community. I only speak keto. ARGHHHHHHH!

So this thread is for moderate low-carbers. Support, shop-talk, ideas, chit-chat, whatever.
You've got 2 mods who aren't VLC now. Me and @Sabine_Stroehm (I summon you for ideas. I'm trying to incorporate some slow-carb into the mix. )

Come play! I'm weirded out and lonely.
(I might possibly be invoking a bit of hyperbole here... )

I'm there with ya, I'm probably out of ketosis too. Ever since I started the "probiotic" diet stuff, I am introducing certain veggies/foods that are carby and I'm not tracking anymore. I'm trying to do several things, like repair my gut dysbiosis (leaky gut), more fiber, etc.

Although I feel better, the fermented/probiotic WOE hasn't done anything for weight loss. I have gained a lot and after I give the probiotic diets my best shot and ~ if I still don't lose any weight, I will go back to a strict keto diet.

Dan

Ringbearer2

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

Also, does anyone on a more moderate plan do less carbs in the morning/during the day, with more carbs at night? That seems like it would work well for me. I wouldn't want any sleepy side effects in the AM/at lunch, but I could do with a carb-coma induced earlier bedtime. LOL

hey, knit, my aim is to spread them through the day to avoid an insulin response. I nener have more than 20g or so at one sitting. Also, I count gross, not net. I tend to eat the least at dinner (unless we're going out or something)--- mostly because I'm sick of my own cooking.

I'm curious about your gall bladder issues. My doc did a (standard) ultrasound and said it is full of stones. I mean FULL. She wS amazed I've never had any symptoms. I really don't want it sucked out for no reason. Ever heard of this?

anglyn1

Ringbearer2 wrote: »

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

I'm curious about your gall bladder issues. My doc did a (standard) ultrasound and said it is full of stones. I mean FULL. She wS amazed I've never had any symptoms. I really don't want it sucked out for no reason. Ever heard of this?

The pain is usually when a stone prevents the bile duct from emptying properly so theoretically not of the stones are in the right (or wrong) place right now. I'd say your luck won't hold out forever and you'll get some pain eventually. A guy I worked with had stones and didn't get his gallbladder removed and it ruptured causing him a whole lot of trouble. So definitely keep an eye on it.

anglyn1

@KnitOrMiss There is a powder mix they can prescribe you to absorb excess bile and slow down transit post-gallbladder removal. It's called Cholestyramine. I used to take it but my diet change seems to have fixed my issue for now...knock on wood. It's orange flavored but I think you can get it sugar free. There is also a pill you can take if the powdered mix doesn't work out for you.

Sabine_Stroehm

I'm here and following along!!! I can be your go to!

KnitOrMiss

anglyn1 wrote: »

@KnitOrMiss There is a powder mix they can prescribe you to absorb excess bile and slow down transit post-gallbladder removal. It's called Cholestyramine. I used to take it but my diet change seems to have fixed my issue for now...knock on wood. It's orange flavored but I think you can get it sugar free. There is also a pill you can take if the powdered mix doesn't work out for you.

Yup, @anglyn1, I was on that, and it did absolutely NOTHING for me, except make me have even worse problems with the bathroom sprints! I'll admit that I never gave it a chance after going lower carb, but it didn't help at all before. Questran or whatever is the name brand, right? I hated that stuff, and I really am reluctant to have a medicine I have to add in that I have to structure all my meals around and such...

I do wonder, though, if I had known to go lower carb, or had been instructed to start that medicine shortly after my surgery December 2000, instead of 2-3 years ago, if it might have made a difference. I won't even go into how many bathroom explosive accidents I endured over the years...

Merrysix

Hi -- I'm lower carb, which I do by not eating any sugar (except very low carb fruit), and don't eat bread/ flour stuff, including pastas. I get my carbs from non starchy vegies, and from a serving a day of lower carb fruit like strawberries, or 1/2 not very ripe apple. This plan seems to work for me.

no_day_but_2day

Hi. I'm low carb as well. I was KETO at the beginning of the year but I truly missed broccoli and spinach and pretty much just all veggies as well. I average between 40-60 actual carbs and 30-40 net carbs now depending if I have chia seeds/flax seed that day (that ups the actual and lowers the net). I have about a whole bag of broccoli (300 grams for dinner) and 200grams of spinach for my lunch salad and breakfast is usually super low carb (eggs/turkey sausage). However, I am completely content with still not eating sweet potatoes or rice or bread or even low carb bread/tortillas. Just haven't felt a need. I still don't eat fruit on a regular basis either but if I do want a sweet treat I do HWC with raspberries or blackberries since those are the lowest carb fruit I believe.
Good Luck!

cairnsmom

I'm low carb after trying to get down to ~20g. 50-75 seems to be my sweet range, 100 for those "if it fits my macros" moments. Certain fruits, nibbles of bread, a couple of crackers with cheese, a bite of my neighbor's fried rice, or a bit of potato are lovely to include on occasion, as well as a sweet treat beyond my daily 85% chocolate. I don't see myself ever eating those things on a regular basis again.Raising it has not initiated more cravings or increased my appetite, so it feels like a good choice. Really great doc visit convinced me even more than ever lchf is my woe forever.

anglyn1

I am going to remain keto for a little while longer but I am considering testing a slightly higher carb level in the future. I just need to find the max level for appetite control and RA symptom relief to continue.

macchiatto

I'm glad you've found something that helps a bit with your eye issues, which sound miserable. Hope you get more relief soon!
I'm planning to try 50-80 gm carbs/day for maintenance and see how that goes. Trying Ad Lib April threw me off; I'd been trying to get up to that but once I stopped logging, I think I was getting over, or more likely just not eating the right types of carbs. Need to get back on track and then I'm going to try out that carb level for a while and see how it goes.

baconslave

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

Also, does anyone on a more moderate plan do less carbs in the morning/during the day, with more carbs at night? That seems like it would work well for me. I wouldn't want any sleepy side effects in the AM/at lunch, but I could do with a carb-coma induced earlier bedtime. LOL

I've been doing that. BPC-ish coffee in the AM (1tbsp CO, 2or 3tbsp H&H). Eat finally at noon, mostly raw veggies, meat and fat. Then at supper, I eat the bulk of my carbs. Which I've pretty much done for the past 2 years.

I've been listening to Primal Potential podcasts, Elizabeth Benton, and she promotes the same thing. If you want to eat for fat loss, eat your carbs at night and fat and protein (with only non-starchy veggie carbs if you like) in the morning. Why? Insulin. Her example is: what happens if you are wakened by 12 hrs of darkness with a floodlight? Your eyes will respond dramatically in a big way. This is how insulin reacts to carbs when you break your fast with carbs. Similarly, how do your eyes react to a floodlight after being in the sun all day? Not much. And that's how insulin reacts to your later meals. So, to promote and not interrupt fat burning, in the morning eat mostly fat and protein and save (backload) the carbs for the later meals (post-workout and/or evening meal.) She also discusses the part cortisol has to play in that as well.

I've probably listened to 20 of her podcasts so far. I found her when looking for a podcast on Mag. She's sciency when it needs it and speaks layperson when you don't need to blow-up your brain over something. She's how I've formulated my new plan. She has some really good things to say on nutrition and lifestyle.
I'm not going to follow everything she says, of course, but it's been a good guide to help me figure out what the heck to do now.

Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »

I'm here and following along!!! I can be your go to!

YAY!

I'm pretty much eating as many veggies as I can, an occasional apple or clementine orange (the only fruits I really like anyway) and/or a 1/2 cup of a legume (I'm trying to stick with higher fiber ones.) I do eat a naughty LC tortilla at lunch or supper sometimes, but after they are gone I may try a flatbread recipe with coconut flour. I'm not counting carbs at all. I'm just not eating certain ones, like bread, pasta, or potatoes, though I'm thinking about adding sometimes cooked and cooled rice and potatoes and peas to get some resistant starch, because I think some of the issue may be in the gut microbiota. I don't want to track calories again, but if things don't level out soon, I may have to next month. I do not like this extra 10lb AT ALL. I'm trying to be nice to myself since I have been not sleeping, and under a lot of stress physically and emotionally for months, but still. It's no bueno.

baconslave

Ringbearer2 wrote: »

I'm moderate (less than 100) carb but low sugar. I eat the occasional starchy veg or bit of bread, but most of my carbs come from salad vegetables. oh, and wine. . for someone that used to subsist on Dr Pepper until dinner time, I feel like I've made some progress.

That's def progress. lol!

auntstephie321 wrote: »

I'm trying to stay more in this arena as well. I've been either all or nothing and swing back and forth from one day to the next. My body doesn't like that, and trying to get out of bed on a Monday morning after a carb binge Sunday, sucks!

I hate to get all my carbs from sweets or grain like products. So I think the other option is veggies. Though when I visited my sister last year she made a lot of stuff with quinoa and garbanzo beans I didn't react poorly to that at all. So maybe more quinoa and garbanzo beans will help me stay a little higher but not all from crap. I only like a few veggies and even when I eat them it doesn't add up to much.

I'm interested in more ideas too.

Yeah the bold is a huge problem for me. I ate a huge raw spinach salad. Tomatoes, peppers, onions, avocado, sunflower seeds, and Thousand Island. Filled me up, but not that many carbs. So I had to go eat some plain yogurt with vanilla. And maybe I'll end up needing an apple later or some beans. It's really hard for me to eat super clean AND stay out of keto. I mixed a can of garlic and onion diced tomatoes and black eyed peas, some mustard, green peppers, a squirt of A-1, and some onions and slow cooked them for an hour. I ate about 1/2 cup at dinner yesterday, and they were totally yummy. It's just hard to know where to look. Mostly sugar-free recipe sites, I guess? I have wanted to try making some hummus...my pork rinds are getting lonely up in that cupboard.

I'm going to bread some chicken breasts with a combo of spices, coconut flour, and crushed pork rinds and bake it at supper. A pan full of tallow cooked broccoli, cauli, and carrots, and a serving of those beans. Making me hungry thinking about it.

I've never had quinoa. Something to investigate.

Buildingit3157

no_day_but_2day wrote: »

Hi. I'm low carb as well. I was KETO at the beginning of the year but I truly missed broccoli and spinach and pretty much just all veggies as well. I average between 40-60 actual carbs and 30-40 net carbs now depending if I have chia seeds/flax seed that day (that ups the actual and lowers the net). I have about a whole bag of broccoli (300 grams for dinner) and 200grams of spinach for my lunch salad and breakfast is usually super low carb (eggs/turkey sausage). However, I am completely content with still not eating sweet potatoes or rice or bread or even low carb bread/tortillas. Just haven't felt a need. I still don't eat fruit on a regular basis either but if I do want a sweet treat I do HWC with raspberries or blackberries since those are the lowest carb fruit I believe.
Good Luck!

I have spinach and broccoli every day. Just had spinach for lunch today. Just have to make room with you carb allotment. But I understand wanting enough carbs to have berries and such too. I'll eventually be low carb and not keto for maintenance. Both are great for health and lifestyle Imo.

auntstephie321

@baconslave yes exactly. I was trying to keep higher earlier this year, 80-100 and I found it more difficult than being really low. I also ended up being in ketosis at that level with exercise as well. Quinoa is pretty good, especially if you cook it right. I think I might make my sourdough starter again tonight to make some sourdough quinoa bread. That has some carbs but doesn't affect my tummy or the scale. It's a complete protein and has tons of nutrients.

wabmester

My carb sources are basically eggs, dairy, veggies, berries, and NUTS. Especially nuts.

Really the only difference between 100g and sub-50g is that you don't freak out about "hidden" carbs in sauces, onions, peppers, and bits of fruit in your meal.

I don't do fake breads or fake tortillas simply because I think it would trigger cravings for the real thing.

dulcitonia

I'm in.
I'm "lowER carb"

no_day_but_2day

wabmester wrote: »

Really the only difference between 100g and sub-50g is that you don't freak out about "hidden" carbs in sauces, onions, peppers, and bits of fruit in your meal

I don't do fake breads or fake tortillas simply because I think it would trigger cravings for the real thing.

^^^this!! I try not to do the sugar free candies either for the same reason.

baconslave

wabmester wrote: »

My carb sources are basically eggs, dairy, veggies, berries, and NUTS. Especially nuts.

Really the only difference between 100g and sub-50g is that you don't freak out about "hidden" carbs in sauces, onions, peppers, and bits of fruit in your meal.

I don't do fake breads or fake tortillas simply because I think it would trigger cravings for the real thing.

Generally I agree. The particular ones I use don't spur cravings for me. And I need the carbs, otherwise I wouldn't use them at all. I'm very not attached to them. So when I figure out things more I'll probably drop them. I've yet to make a fake bread or tortilla I like. They're all either eggy or just blurg. I've given up on it. And I don't miss bread so I'm not bothered.

KarlynKeto

no_day_but_2day wrote: »

Hi. I'm low carb as well. I was KETO at the beginning of the year but I truly missed broccoli and spinach and pretty much just all veggies as well. I average between 40-60 actual carbs and 30-40 net carbs now depending if I have chia seeds/flax seed that day (that ups the actual and lowers the net). I have about a whole bag of broccoli (300 grams for dinner) and 200grams of spinach for my lunch salad and breakfast is usually super low carb (eggs/turkey sausage). However, I am completely content with still not eating sweet potatoes or rice or bread or even low carb bread/tortillas. Just haven't felt a need. I still don't eat fruit on a regular basis either but if I do want a sweet treat I do HWC with raspberries or blackberries since those are the lowest carb fruit I believe.
Good Luck!

Are you not keto in those macros? Your current range is very much like the macros I have daily, and I stay well into keto. And I have plenty of green veggies too. But everyone is different. I wouldn't give up veggies either, so if it meant them or keto the veggies win.

squeekersmom

Tried keto to help my diabetes,,,,,I got to the point I would look at my dinner etc and get naseous , started lower carb this week. Just a few more things added like 1/2 an apple, more variety of veggies. Never thought I would get sick of eating cream, butter, bacon lol
A carrot right now is much more appealing.

cairnsmom

KnitOrMiss wrote: »

Also, does anyone on a more moderate plan do less carbs in the morning/during the day, with more carbs at night? That seems like it would work well for me. I wouldn't want any sleepy side effects in the AM/at lunch, but I could do with a carb-coma induced earlier bedtime. LOL

I do. Lately, I've been getting <20g between breakfast and lunch, and it works great.

Christine_72

I'm trying desperately to UP my carbs, purely to get rid of the keto breath that has hounded me from day one :sad: I've changed my macros to % 30/35/35 C/P/F

dasher602014

I am here to because of skin issues. I am trying to find the 'middle road' but it is like starting over again. Keto seems easy by comparison.

I try to eat my carbs in my evening meal. But I am still experimenting and researching.