Losing muscle on Keto
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First off, congratulations on being KETO for roughly the past 2 years.
From my own experiences I have used allot of body fat estimation systems that I have found are not accurate and should be acknowledged for being so.
Electrical Impedance - small electron shocks to find out your body fat percentage, and water weight. These can very from machine to machine, and use a formula based on both your height and age. ANY system that takes those into its estimated calculations can be VERY wrong, and should not be trusted.
Bod Pod - These machines do well on individuals who are of average physical measurement size, those that are will receive correct readings, those that are physically big (ie large bone structure, large chested, very tall, or obese) will throw off its calculations drastically.
DEXA- more below on that..
And lastly the fitness club favorite of the Body Fat Caliper.
I am going to take a stab at this and say that your estimated loss was based on a body caliper. A Caliper would question any estimated muscle loss based on your skin fold changes and your current weight, versus your previous weight prior to the challenge. These can be off completely as it would only measure your subcutaneous fat (ie. butt dimples, cellulite, wobbly bits) - essentially the External body fat below your skin, no change there would indicate that your weight changes (up or down) are due to you gaining or losing muscle.
What this can not measure is your internal fat aka Visceral fat. This fat is the fat that surrounds your organs, and is the most dangerous (ie diabetes, blood pressure, heart attack) fat you can have on your body.
If I am correct in my assumption, then the true results can be VERY misleading.
The only true and accurate way to know your body fat, muscle mass, bone density, and water weight would be to have a DEXA scan done before and after your challenges.
A DEXA scan is not very expensive, and would certainly give you an exact target approach.
Be warned - a DEXA scan can tell you the physical differences between your right side and left side arms and legs..making some people VERY self conscious. ....lol
Now, if I am wrong about the above - not a problem, I hope that others may learn a bit about these systems for future reference.
If you were to say - "Jay, my muscle results were determined by a DEXA scan"....I would say that you certainly have something internally wrong in your body's hormone system and should see a doctor......I dont think that this is the current case however...
DEXA still has a reasonable degree of error to it. It's likely the most accurate of the methods listed but it's not true and accurate.
The only possible way to accurately assess would be autospy which isn't practical for obvious reasons lol.
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-5-the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-parts-5-and-6-skinfolds-and-dual-energy-x-ray-absorptiometry-dexa/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
In one way I feel like you intentionally took the time to discount and completely invalidate all that I wrote in a single sentence.
But at the same time I am waiting for someone to chime in that they had an autopsy done.
Sorry, I agree with the idea that the measurement method is likely the culprit as I stated earlier. I was replying to you because there's a lot of misconceptions about body fat analysis, DEXA included.
It wasn't my intent to invalidate your entire post, it was my intent to clarify that DEXA isn't entirely true and accurate.
No harm no foul.....have a great day guys and gals!1 -
erinseattle wrote: »I'm shocked by the muscle loss as everything I've read says Keto is muscle-sparing.
There's a lot of mythology out there. Keto is not muscle sparing compared to high carb.
If you're not eating enough to meet your minimal glucose needs, you will convert protein to glucose. If you're not eating enough protein to cover both that need and your muscle building needs, then you'll lose muscle.
Ketosis is called "muscle sparing" because during periods of starvation, ketones allow your glucose needs to decrease from about 130g/d to 40g/d. If it weren't for ketones, you'd need to convert a LOT more protein to glucose during starvation, and you'd lose a LOT more muscle. So the context is very important. Ketones are muscle-sparing during starvation.
In your case, you're not eating enough carbs to meet your minimal needs, so you're using protein to make glucose, and your protein level of 75g probably isn't enough to maintain muscle mass.3 -
@erinseattle Wow! You look amazing! What an inspiring transformation!!! Congrats to you!1
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@wabmester - I was hoping you would comment and I think you're right. My trainer has been saying this but I guess I've held on too tightly to the Keto macros when I should be paying greater attention to hunger and muscle fatigue.0
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I have like lost around 150 pounds and added back around 20 pounds of muscle.
IMO body shaping is all about sleep, 50 or so grams of extra protein, and smart limited duration lifting.
I cycle winter lifting and rest/protein with summer slight defects while triathlon training
Body fat percentages are somewhat a silly measure. You can tell where you have fat by a simple pinch and look in the mirror, use a tape measure.
My expensive scale varies by 3% daily. The tape measure and mirror are free, and honest.
Settling in with the idea you look fine now, and any body shaping will be slow and gradual is probably something to consider.3 -
Couldn't you also just increase protein enough to increase calories and meet the glucose and muscle needs?
It doesn't have to be carbs, right? Just need a source for glucose that isn't muscle.3 -
lifeextension.com/magazine/2008/5/d-ribose-energize-your-heart-save-your-life/page-01
@erinseattle skip down to the Energizing Skeletal Muscle part of the above. I do not use this brand of D-Ribose but I find their research works posted to be very helpful on all supplements. It has only been 30 days since I started experimenting with D-Ribose. At this point I have no thumbs up or down on D-Ribose. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome research using D-Ribose was what initially got my attention plus the fat loss mouse study.
It talks about how long one should rest muscles after a workout. D-Ribose cut the time from like 6 days to 2 days I read somewhere.
If anything catches your interest you can Goggle forward from that point.1 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ I would certainly think I could just increase protein and REST. Researching the supplement mentioned above also.
As for carbs, I will likely be a little less restrictive: have more cauliflower if I want it, treat myself to full fat yogurt on occasion, stuff like that. Phinney & Volek say that athletes can handle more carbs, and I wouldn't ever go back to grains, sugar, or starchy vegetables but more avocado - YES.1 -
erinseattle wrote: »@Sunny_Bunny_ I would certainly think I could just increase protein and REST. Researching the supplement mentioned above also.
As for carbs, I will likely be a little less restrictive: have more cauliflower if I want it, treat myself to full fat yogurt on occasion, stuff like that. Phinney & Volek say that athletes can handle more carbs, and I wouldn't ever go back to grains, sugar, or starchy vegetables but more avocado - YES.
Even though vegetables don't agree with me, I've always thought that if the only carbs people are eating are from non starchy vegetables, there's probably not much reason to worry about limiting them. I think you've got the right idea with your plan. Though, I'm certainly no expert. I just think grains, sugar and starches are really the big problem carbs, like you basically said.
Best of luck on gaining back that muscle! Sounds like you've got it all figured out.1 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ This is not the first time I have been advised to eat more. I'm finding it very difficult to transition out of weight loss mode. I've done enough research to know that I need more rest/sleep/days off, but the exercise is more for my brain than it is for my body. Just interesting how mental all of this is for me. Really thankful for this board - I learn SO MUCH from all of you!3
