Bike Trainers
patrickblo13
Posts: 831 Member
Before we know it snow will be flying in the Northeast. Besides some fat bike riding in the winter I would like to invest in a bike trainer to continue training for Tri's in the offseason and other MTB XC races.
Does anyone have any recommendations for trainers? What should I be looking for? I am trying not to spend a ton of money
Does anyone have any recommendations for trainers? What should I be looking for? I am trying not to spend a ton of money
0
Replies
-
There's a lot of scope for discussion in that question. So, to help clarify:
- How will you be using the trainer (i.e. just spinning, Zwift, TrainerRoad, Sufferfest vids, etc)
- Do you have any experience with indoor trainers/training?
- Do you want a smart trainer or a dumb one?
- What constitutes a "ton of money?" (i.e. < $500, >$500, $1000+)
Speaking very generally, for dumb trainers I'd always recommend a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine fluid trainer. Bulletproof and they "just work." Having said that, for the price I'd probably generally recommend spending another few bucks and getting a smart trainer. My current recommendation would probably be a Tacx Vortex Smart. You're still in the $400-500 range if you shop around a bit. Moving up from there, you've got the Tacx Bushido, Wahoo Kickr Snap, various Elite models, etc. in the "smart trainer between $500 and $1000" range. Above that, the Tacx Neo (my personal choice for a Cadillac trainer) and the Wahoo Kickr.
Give me a little more info and I or someone else here can probably help refine from there.2 -
Oh, and for a much more comprehensive discussion, as always DC Rainmaker is The Man. Go check out his 2015-2016 Trainer Recommendations post, with the caveat that he's going to be releasing the 2016-2017 version next month sometime. If you can hold off until then the landscape might (will) change somewhat.1
-
There's a lot of scope for discussion in that question. So, to help clarify:
- How will you be using the trainer (i.e. just spinning, Zwift, TrainerRoad, Sufferfest vids, etc)
- Do you have any experience with indoor trainers/training?
- Do you want a smart trainer or a dumb one?
- What constitutes a "ton of money?" (i.e. < $500, >$500, $1000+)
Speaking very generally, for dumb trainers I'd always recommend a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine fluid trainer. Bulletproof and they "just work." Having said that, for the price I'd probably generally recommend spending another few bucks and getting a smart trainer. My current recommendation would probably be a Tacx Vortex Smart. You're still in the $400-500 range if you shop around a bit. Moving up from there, you've got the Tacx Bushido, Wahoo Kickr Snap, various Elite models, etc. in the "smart trainer between $500 and $1000" range. Above that, the Tacx Neo (my personal choice for a Cadillac trainer) and the Wahoo Kickr.
Give me a little more info and I or someone else here can probably help refine from there.
Great feedback. I probably should have elaborated a bit more. I do not have a specific training program in mind but would most likely follow some kind of program. I need structure so it wouldn't just be for spinning. I am definitely not looking to spend more than $750. I don't have experience with indoor trainers. The only indoor training I have done is on a spin bike. But I would like to get more saddle time on my own bikes. Someone on my FL suggested the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and it seems like a good fit but I might consider spending a bit more for a smart trainer.
1 -
This will devolve a bit into training with trainers in general, not just training recommendations, so allow me to apologize now if necessary.
That was at least part of my reasoning behind asking about both how you will be using the trainer and what experience you have. I can tell you unequivocally that "just spinning" will quickly have you disillusioned, bored, unmotivated, and with a dusty, unused trainer. :-)patrickblo13 wrote: »I do not have a specific training program in mind but would most likely follow some kind of program. I need structure so it wouldn't just be for spinning.
Allow me, having no skin in the game whatsoever, to point you in the direction of both TrainerRoad and Zwift. I actually have and use both. It kind of depends on your mindset as to which you'll like and/or use mostly. Personally, I like my actual training, i.e. intervals and such, to be a pretty stripped down experience. That being the case, TrainerRoad is my preferred platform for that sort of thing. For just spinning and getting hours on the bike, Zwift. The difference being TrainerRoad is a training platform, not an entertainment platform. Zwift is an entertainment platform that also allows you to ride and train. The good news is you get subscriptions to both for the price of a few lattes per month. Both have lots of training plans, but IMO TrainerRoads are far more flexible, comprehensive, and cohesive.patrickblo13 wrote: »I am definitely not looking to spend more than $750. I don't have experience with indoor trainers. The only indoor training I have done is on a spin bike. But I would like to get more saddle time on my own bikes. Someone on my FL suggested the Kurt Kinetic Road Machine and it seems like a good fit but I might consider spending a bit more for a smart trainer.
I actually own a Road Machine, and have for 4 or 5 years now. It was my first "real" trainer and I can't say enough good stuff about them. I have spent many, many hours sweating all over mine and it will do the trick. Having said that, from a price perspective it really just doesn't make much sense anymore. The regular "dumb" Road Machine trainers are still going to run you $350-400, and you can get a Tacx Vortex Smart (I also own one of these) for less than $600 without even trying hard, and if you hunt about some you could probably find one for $400 or less. Given the added benefits of smart trainers, I personally just can't justify the cost of a Road Machine anymore. DC Rainmaker's 2015-2016 trainer guide agrees with me, and he recommends the Vortex Smart as well. His 2016-2017 guide might have a different recommendations because there look to be a number of new smart trainers hitting the market in the $800 and less range.
I hope this helps, and please let me know if I can answer any more questions. I'm a huge believer in trainers, I own 3: a Road Machine (my backup and race day/travel trainer), a Vortex (now used by the wife), and a Tacx Neo (my daily driver). I spend time on my trainer in all four seasons, regardless of weather. They are a tremendous tool for getting and staying fit.
Good luck!
2 -
well - I was going to give my 2-pennorth, but frankly, it's pretty much...
"What he Said"...
If you've got the cash, get the Neo. personally, my "mid-range" recommendation would be the Bushido Smart... So much that I actually bought one myself last year as a replacement for the previous generation Bushido which had been pretty much bomb-proof for the previous 3 or more years, but had the single flaw of not being smart controllable by anything other than Tacx's own TTS software. So, for Either Zwift or TrainerRoad stuff, it was a bit of a PITA.
But the Bushido Smart is pretty decent - it'll cope with simulating a decent degree of slope, not too noisy, and it doesn't need to be plugged in for anything - so, it'll double as a pre-race warmup device - indeed, if you've got the Tacx ipad app, you can even have a pre-rolled ergo-controlled warmup routine completely off-the-grid, out the back of the team-bus... and, yeah, I've seen people doing this at club 10 TT's - the whole science stuff is getting pretty all-pervasive these days.
2 -
I'm a minimalist when it's about trainer... Mine is a super old Elite trainer, actually I didn't buy it my friend lent it to me as it was just lying around unused at his place. No resistance adjustment just change gears to your need. 60-90 mins I call it a day which is enough to finish what I need to do, totally unhardcore
0 -
I'm a minimalist when it's about trainer... Mine is a super old Elite trainer, actually I didn't buy it my friend lent it to me as it was just lying around unused at his place. No resistance adjustment just change gears to your need. 60-90 mins I call it a day which is enough to finish what I need to do, totally unhardcore
That's how the Kurt Road Machine works too. Just a resistance unit comprised of an impeller spinning inside a chamber full of medical grade silicon. As the impeller speed goes up, so does the resistance, so very road-like: bigger gear, harder to pedal. I was really happy with that setup for a number of years but the advent of the smart trainers, Erg mode, and more sophisticated training software made me a believer. Oh, and plus the prices on smart trainers coming way down.1 -
I started off with a very basic trainer which I used with some of the Sufferfest video's and those definitely improved the workout for me. I then got one of the Tacx virtual reality ones and that's excellent - either riding simulated circuits or recordings of real rides.0
-
I'm contemplating an upgrade myself at the moment. I currently have a very old Tacx trainer, originally bought to get saddle time in while I was at sea. Over the last couple of years it's been my cross trainer of choice, along with Sufferfest videos.
My thought is, with the demise of non-app sufferfest, to subscribe to either sufferfest or Zwift, along with a trainer update.
Having read the DCR reviews, I'm undecided so will probably wait for his next recommendation post. My decision seems to be, is it worth the extra hundred quid to go up from the Vortex Smart to the Bushido Smart, and if it is does that make the Kickr Snap the right choice.0 -
Just curious, but the demise of non-app Sufferfest? What do you mean?MeanderingMammal wrote: »My thought is, with the demise of non-app sufferfest, to subscribe to either sufferfest or Zwift, along with a trainer update.
I tend to agree with DCR with regard to the Bushido vs. Vortex. @TheBigYin may disagree with me, but IMO it really just comes down to whether you need the ability to work "unplugged" or not. The Vortex will work without power, but only as a "dumb" trainer. The Bushido will work as a smart trainer without power. Otherwise, the only difference between the two is the Bushido can handle 1400 watts/14% slope, vs. the Vortex at 950 watts/9% slope. Unless you're really strong, either of those would likely be fine so again, to me it really comes down to the unplugged performance. If you carry it to races on a regular basis I can see where that would be important. For me, it isn't an issue.MeanderingMammal wrote: »Having read the DCR reviews, I'm undecided so will probably wait for his next recommendation post. My decision seems to be, is it worth the extra hundred quid to go up from the Vortex Smart to the Bushido Smart, and if it is does that make the Kickr Snap the right choice.
Having said all that, I would absolutely wait to see what DCR says. Supposedly a post coming out later this month (Sept.) with 2016-2017 recommendations.
0 -
Just curious, but the demise of non-app Sufferfest? What do you mean?MeanderingMammal wrote: »My thought is, with the demise of non-app sufferfest, to subscribe to either sufferfest or Zwift, along with a trainer update.
There has been some discussion on their Farcebook page recently, essentially all their new content will be App only.
0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »
There has been some discussion on their Farcebook page recently, essentially all their new content will be App only.
Well I really hope they don't do something that knuckleheaded. They will lose me as a customer if they do. I have most of their vids but no interest in their app or subscription service.0 -
I tend to agree with DCR with regard to the Bushido vs. Vortex. @TheBigYin may disagree with me, but IMO it really just comes down to whether you need the ability to work "unplugged" or not. The Vortex will work without power, but only as a "dumb" trainer. The Bushido will work as a smart trainer without power. Otherwise, the only difference between the two is the Bushido can handle 1400 watts/14% slope, vs. the Vortex at 950 watts/9% slope. Unless you're really strong, either of those would likely be fine so again, to me it really comes down to the unplugged performance. If you carry it to races on a regular basis I can see where that would be important. For me, it isn't an issue.
Having said all that, I would absolutely wait to see what DCR says. Supposedly a post coming out later this month (Sept.) with 2016-2017 recommendations.
Nope, don't disagree with that at all... with a slight proviso on the Power/ Gradients...
there's actually an interactive graph on the Tacx Website - http://www.tacx.com/en/products/trainers/bushido-smart#tab_2 that allows you to see what resistance at a given speed you will get from the Bushido or the other smart trainers - AT YOUR OWN BODYWEIGHT - the quoted figures are for a 75kg rider... now, I'm actually nearer 125kg than 75, and plugging in those figures, and taking a typical uphill speed (for me) of 15kph (optimistic to be honest) - the i-Vortex shows a resistance simulation that is "topping out" at 3-4%... The Bushido at the same settings will allow nearer 11%...
Now, that's the difference between being able to ride pretty much the whole "mountain course" on Zwift without having to go into "virtual power" and stop being realistic, or being in a simulated gear-down situation for nearly all the uphills... And, don't get me started on how unrealistic the Tacx Trainer DVDs feel if the trainer will only give 3-4%... So, yeah, if you're 75kg and racing, then the i-Vortex is fine if you don't need it for unplugged work... but if you're a bit heavier, and maybe a bit slower, go look at the graphs I linked to, and see which one will work better for you. Or, just don't muck about and go buy a Neo...
Though, browsing the Tacx Website, the Magnum did sort of appeal...
1 -
Interesting.
How does the Magnum compare with the Wahoo Kickr?0 -
Triathlete1502 wrote: »Interesting.
How does the Magnum compare with the Wahoo Kickr?
I think it's safe to say the Magnum doesn't compare to anything else currently on the market. It is a thing unto itself. I can only recommend checking out the website for more details.
The downside? 350 lbs and currently projected to cost about $7,800.1 -
Thanks @ntnunk for the weblink.
The Magnum's weight and price tag are seemingly rather hefty, perhaps in sync, albeit (sub)consciously with its name.
The latest model of wahoo kickr has apparently been redesigned with a reduced noise level of 61 decibels:
http://uk.wahoofitness.com/devices/kickr?&campaignid=302268378&adgroupid=19631745978&creative=125714991498&keyword=wahoo%20kickr%20bike%20trainer&gclid=CKSorN2R-84CFXUz0wodIIkAzg&gclsrc=aw.ds0 -
I'm curious to see how the new Kickr compares to the Neo. I have a Neo as my "daily driver" trainer and I can tell ya, it is for all intents and purposes silent. All you hear is the bike's drive train.Triathlete1502 wrote: »The latest model of wahoo kickr has apparently been redesigned with a reduced noise level of 61 decibels:
0 -
Here's DC Rainmaker's review of the new Wahoo Kickr:
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/08/wahoo-fitness-kickr2-2016-new-trainer.html
Yes, the Neo is still much quieter than the new Kickr, and 400 USD costlier too. That said, with my earphones in, I hardly hear any noise (except my music) at all!2 -
What are the advantages of turbo trainers over a gym exercise bike?
Is it purely the ability to ride on your own bike geometry, or is there more to it than that? I've been thinking about buying a turbo for this winter, and very nearly pulled the trigger on something on ebay tonight, but I'm wondering whether I'd be better saving my money and just getting some use out of my gym membership0 -
My opinion only, but partly it's to do with your own bike, partly to do with being able to train at home, and partly being able to train without distraction.
I'm much more likely to get a workout in if I don't have to go anywhere, I have my training area set up so I can just just jump on and go. Plus, having your trainer and bime means you can set up for whatever training plan you intend to follow and stick to it. And if you aren't planning on following some ki d of plan, then my recommendation is to just not bother. Without a plan you likely won't stick to it. Most folks who figure they'll "just spin" end up realizing how soul-crushingly boring it is unless they have the ability to use Zwift or maybe the Tacx videos. Both of which you mostly need to be home for.1 -
My opinion only, but partly it's to do with your own bike, partly to do with being able to train at home, and partly being able to train without distraction.
I'm much more likely to get a workout in if I don't have to go anywhere, I have my training area set up so I can just just jump on and go. Plus, having your trainer and bime means you can set up for whatever training plan you intend to follow and stick to it. And if you aren't planning on following some ki d of plan, then my recommendation is to just not bother. Without a plan you likely won't stick to it. Most folks who figure they'll "just spin" end up realizing how soul-crushingly boring it is unless they have the ability to use Zwift or maybe the Tacx videos. Both of which you mostly need to be home for.
What he said ^^^
Unless you're riding "to a plan" and doing hard enough intervals that you're vision is too blurred to care about other distractions, get something that'll work with either the Sufferfest, TrainerRoad, Zwift or maybe Tacx Videos.
the first three all have free trials - a month on trainerroad, 14 days on Zwift and 7 days on sufferfest - give them all a try and that's nearly your first 2 months of winter sorted... then you can choose which one suits you best...
0 -
Thanks for the input guys. I don't have a problem hitting the gym bike for 45-60 minutes on one of the built-in programs, I just zone out and go for it, or listen to music, but that does fall a fair way short of a proper structured development programme. Still really tempted by the turbo - there's a couple of potential bargains on ebay just calling out to me at the moment...0
-
You wouldn't zone out using Sufferfest - you'd be too busy concentrating on not having a heart attack or drowning in the puddle of sweat that'll be forming under you!0
-
My instinctive response is that if you can "zone out" then you aren't working as hard as you could/should be for improvements. The typical amateur/recreational cyclist has a problem with never riding quite hard enough to improve, and never quite easy enough to recover. Again, my opinion only, but if you are going to spend time on the trainer or exercise bike, make it count for as much as possible. Zoning out and spinning is better than nothing, and you'll maintain some fitness, but wouldn't you rather work a bit harder and actually come into the spring stronger, rather than just maintaining?1
-
'Zone out'' was a bad choice of phrase on my part - when I used to use the gym bike I would really thrash it, tuned into the bike display and out of the world around me. I'd have my heart rate at or above my theoretical maximum for multiple bursts.
However I agree with what youre saying - it's a prett blunt tool compared with a structured programme and knowing whether your power output etc is improving2 -
I have an inexpensive dumb trainer that works for now, but I would like to upgrade to a smart trainer. So far the most affordable option for me (in Canada) is a KURT KINETIC ROAD MACHINE SMART FLUID TRAINER T-2700 at around $540 CAD. Most other options get over $800 very quickly. Even $500ish will take some saving on my part.0
-
rileysowner wrote: »I have an inexpensive dumb trainer that works for now, but I would like to upgrade to a smart trainer. So far the most affordable option for me (in Canada) is a KURT KINETIC ROAD MACHINE SMART FLUID TRAINER T-2700 at around $540 CAD. Most other options get over $800 very quickly. Even $500ish will take some saving on my part.
I hate to say it, as I've traditionally been a huge believe of Kurt trainers (and I currently own a "dumb" Road Machine as well as a set of their Z Rollers), but I'd stay away from the Road Machine Smart. Kurt made the incredibly stupid decision of not supporting either ANT+ or any of the existing Bluetooth communication standards for their trainers, which means all the app makers have to write special code just for them. That means companies will be slower to adopt support and many may just ignore them completely. Kurt has done a poor job of justifying this decision so far, even having gone so far as to promise a press release explaining their thinking and then backing away from actually doing so. One hopes they will actually step up, do the right thing, and support the standards at some point but as far as I know they have not yet done so. Until they do, I personally wouldn't recommend buying a smart trainer from them.
More info here from The Man himself in the sports tech world, DC Rainmaker, if you're interested in reading more about it. The comments to that post are especially entertaining, though I feel bad for the Kurt employee who's chiming in and trying to control the raging forest fire.1 -
rileysowner wrote: »I have an inexpensive dumb trainer that works for now, but I would like to upgrade to a smart trainer. So far the most affordable option for me (in Canada) is a KURT KINETIC ROAD MACHINE SMART FLUID TRAINER T-2700 at around $540 CAD. Most other options get over $800 very quickly. Even $500ish will take some saving on my part.
I hate to say it, as I've traditionally been a huge believe of Kurt trainers (and I currently own a "dumb" Road Machine as well as a set of their Z Rollers), but I'd stay away from the Road Machine Smart. Kurt made the incredibly stupid decision of not supporting either ANT+ or any of the existing Bluetooth communication standards for their trainers, which means all the app makers have to write special code just for them. That means companies will be slower to adopt support and many may just ignore them completely. Kurt has done a poor job of justifying this decision so far, even having gone so far as to promise a press release explaining their thinking and then backing away from actually doing so. One hopes they will actually step up, do the right thing, and support the standards at some point but as far as I know they have not yet done so. Until they do, I personally wouldn't recommend buying a smart trainer from them.
More info here from The Man himself in the sports tech world, DC Rainmaker, if you're interested in reading more about it. The comments to that post are especially entertaining, though I feel bad for the Kurt employee who's chiming in and trying to control the raging forest fire.
Thanks for the heads up. It is not something I would be purchasing soon, so hopefully prices will become more reasonable on other one. Most of the one mentioned here are close to $1000 CAD, and if I am spending that much money I would rather get a power meter.0 -
rileysowner wrote: »Thanks for the heads up. It is not something I would be purchasing soon, so hopefully prices will become more reasonable on other one. Most of the one mentioned here are close to $1000 CAD, and if I am spending that much money I would rather get a power meter.
There are a number of other smart trainers you can pick up in the same general price range as the Kurt. The Tacx Vortex and Cyclops Magnus come to mind immediately.
Having said that, if the choice is between a power meter or a smart trainer I'd go with the power meter every time. There are a number of power meters that are close to that same range. The single-side 4iiii and Stages (though I don't like single-side power meters personally. Too much scope for erroneous measurement for me to be happy about) or for a little more money Power2Max or Quarq Riken AL.
0
