Depressed mood on LCHF?
Patti2008
Posts: 48 Member
I have been on this WOE 5 weeks today. The most distressing side affect has been apathy- a general feeling of " who gives a rip" about just about anything. Anybody else experience this and when can I expect it to let up? I know if I ate a giant sugar cookie I would be happy, happy, happy but I'm not going there. I want to just ride it out. Any experiences too share?
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I totally understand. When so many things in our lives exist around our enjoyment of foods then we stop having those foods it can be rough. At some point after going Keto I realized I didn't even want the cookie any more. Today I still don't want it but darn if I'm not eating it anyway. I've been trying to figure out why the self sabotage and there have been a lot of really helpful comments on it and people who relate on the thread. I have learned to some extent that eating the meat with extra yummy butter or cheese is as good if not better than the cookie.
The real question is though, how do we stop equating food to happiness? If we could bottle that we'd be millionaires. We eat for everything - parties, successes, failures, deaths, life, everything. I used to hate the idea of celebrating because I knew that meant eating - back when eating fats was bad. Today, though, the idea of going out and getting a great big steak with garlic butter on it sounds like a party to me!
Would the cookie REALLY make you happy? Or would it satisfy one little bit of you for a moment then make you miserable? I know for me it's the latter - even after being Keto for all these months - I fell off the wagon and hate myself every time I eat something I shouldn't. If only I could take my own advice.
What else makes you happy? Find that and indulge there. I see this is your first post - I think you will find lots of like minded people with the same struggles and successes here and I hope that helps you too!!!!3 -
Aww I'm sorry. I haven't found that this woe causes me to feel depressed, but as someone who struggles with depression and who has used food as a coping mechanism her whole life, it is hard to break that trend and I do feel at a loss when I'm dealing with something that I would normally remedy with food.
I know there are a million better ways that I could cope, but like you said, that feeling of euphoria that you get with a sugar high has quite a draw.
I will share that eating this way has actually significantly reduced my binge eating and stress and depression are the key sources of my binge eating. I'm definitely not less stressed or depressed, but that urge to eat has certainly diminished, along with my appetite (most of the time).
When I just have to shovel food in my mouth I try to at least stay LCHF. Things like salami and cheese are my new comfort foods. Albeit they are not really foods I really want to be eating as I prefer to fuel myself with less processed foods and minimal dairy, but it's better than the bread and cakes I used to eat.0 -
Yes, you'd be happy while eating the cookie and maybe for a few minutes after, but then you'd want another cookie after the sugar wore off, then another, which is how we all got here. What else makes you happy? Art, painting, baking, cooking, crafting, swimming, sports etc?
I picked up baking myself and have been trying to make new recipes when I have free time. I'm interested in knitting and sewing too, there's something about being able to make clothing and blankets yourself with whatever colors you want that seems so satisfying. If I was able to sew I'd make my daughter a bunch of fun clothes, but the sewing machine is really confusing to me. The threads always seem to get caught in the abyss under the machine and I don't really know what to do with it, lol.1 -
You don't have your diary open, but how low carb are you exactly? You might find your mood improves in the 50g-100g carb range if you are currently below 50g per day.2
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If I was able to sew I'd make my daughter a bunch of fun clothes, but the sewing machine is really confusing to me. The threads always seem to get caught in the abyss under the machine and I don't really know what to do with it, lol.
Sigh...if only we were neighbors...I could teach you the sewing machine...but I'd bet that your bobbin is in wrong. Try threading it the other way and see if that helps.4 -
sewing is definitely a labor of love...you couldn't pay me enough to make it worthwhile, but I do enjoy the things I can create...0
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yeah...I can't cross stitch, crochet any of that...but give me a sewing machine...good to go. I used to sew all my own square dance dresses...you know those big frilly things...lol Though these days they'd be less than half the size they used to be!2
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I'm going to say this without sources, there's a link between serotonin and low carbing. Just so you can go do research. Perhaps supplementing can help? @KnitOrMiss probably has more information regarding this.2
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RowdysLady wrote: »If I was able to sew I'd make my daughter a bunch of fun clothes, but the sewing machine is really confusing to me. The threads always seem to get caught in the abyss under the machine and I don't really know what to do with it, lol.
Sigh...if only we were neighbors...I could teach you the sewing machine...but I'd bet that your bobbin is in wrong. Try threading it the other way and see if that helps.
That would be awesome! I've long forgotten even how to thread them (I'm so terrible at it, lol) but I made a laundry bag and pyjama pants in high school and LOVED the class. I liked being able to pick out my own patterns and make it however I wanted. It seemed like machines outside of the ones used at school were way different and overly complicated. I kept my little sewing kit but never did buy myself my own sewing machine, I really should though. With YouTube you can learn just about anything online.
I hope you got some ideas OP, I don't know if it would help your depressed feelings but it can't hurt to explore an interest. If the cravings for sweets gets to be too much, there are many keto friendly mug cakes and fat bombs you could make at home if you like. Fruity or chocolate teas have saved me a few times as well, with a little hot frothy heavy cream.. yum!!0 -
RowdysLady wrote: »yeah...I can't cross stitch, crochet any of that...but give me a sewing machine...good to go. I used to sew all my own square dance dresses...you know those big frilly things...lol Though these days they'd be less than half the size they used to be!
Do you still have them? Can you show one to us? You don't have to model it, I'm just curious what they look like.0 -
Thanks so much for your responses.
In 2000, I went on a low carb diet for fibromyalgia/ hypoglycemia management. It really worked for pain management and improving mental clarity. As a side benefit, I lost the weight I had gained when I quit smoking. I went into that diet kind of like I'd approach a root canal: a necessary evil. I had cheat days at least twice a week. Since my attitude was this is a diet of deprivation, I eventually returned to my old ways of eating. As a result, I am now obese, and headed toward metabolic syndrome. I have been dieting off and on since 2008 using weight watchers and then CICO on MFP. I have never lost much weight in spite of being very compliant. In my frustration at no weight loss and being hungry all the time I remembered the low carb diet of 2000. This time my mindset was totally different going into it. I was excited for better pain control, a clearer mind, and eating all the fat I wanted. This girl likes her fat! I have said to my husband "this doesn't feel like a diet at all." There are lots of foods to eat that I love that I didn't allow myself the years on calorie restriction. So I don't think the apathy is a mind thing- it feels physiological.
I started off shooting for 50-100 gms of carb but didn't lose any weight the first week and got nervous so I have dropped to under 50 gms. I think that might be too low but if I add carbs maybe it needs to be in the form of non- starchy veg rather then dairy or a fruit serving? Do you find the type of carb is as important as the amount?2 -
This. ^^SuperCarLori wrote: »I'm going to say this without sources, there's a link between serotonin and low carbing. Just so you can go do research.
When I quit caffeine, I lost my "best friend".
When I quit cigarettes, I lost my "best friend".
When I quit alcohol, I lost my "best friend".
When I quit sugar, I lost my "best friend".
With each quit, that which remained became a stronger obsession/compulsion/habit. This "sugar thing" can be tough. I understand eating a sugar cookie and becoming happy. Treat it like the addiction that it might be. I choose to believe in the addiction and therefore treat it as such.
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RowdysLady wrote: »yeah...I can't cross stitch, crochet any of that...but give me a sewing machine...good to go. I used to sew all my own square dance dresses...you know those big frilly things...lol Though these days they'd be less than half the size they used to be!
Do you still have them? Can you show one to us? You don't have to model it, I'm just curious what they look like.
I gave them all away years ago but I'm trying to find a place to start dancing again and will make more once I do...I'll gladly model them!2 -
Thanks so much for your responses.
In 2000, I went on a low carb diet for fibromyalgia/ hypoglycemia management. It really worked for pain management and improving mental clarity. As a side benefit, I lost the weight I had gained when I quit smoking. I went into that diet kind of like I'd approach a root canal: a necessary evil. I had cheat days at least twice a week. Since my attitude was this is a diet of deprivation, I eventually returned to my old ways of eating. As a result, I am now obese, and headed toward metabolic syndrome. I have been dieting off and on since 2008 using weight watchers and then CICO on MFP. I have never lost much weight in spite of being very compliant. In my frustration at no weight loss and being hungry all the time I remembered the low carb diet of 2000. This time my mindset was totally different going into it. I was excited for better pain control, a clearer mind, and eating all the fat I wanted. This girl likes her fat! I have said to my husband "this doesn't feel like a diet at all." There are lots of foods to eat that I love that I didn't allow myself the years on calorie restriction. So I don't think the apathy is a mind thing- it feels physiological.
I started off shooting for 50-100 gms of carb but didn't lose any weight the first week and got nervous so I have dropped to under 50 gms. I think that might be too low but if I add carbs maybe it needs to be in the form of non- starchy veg rather then dairy or a fruit serving? Do you find the type of carb is as important as the amount?
Do you find the type of carb is as important as the amount? - Yes. 10g of carbs from broccoli vs 10g of carbs from bread or potatoes is a massive difference micronutrient wise. You get so much more bang for your buck from the broccoli which is packed with vitamin C and gives you a good amount of fiber, whereas a potato is almost empty. While everyone has been so focused on calories they seem to have forgotten we still need vitamins and minerals too!
So I don't think the apathy is a mind thing- it feels physiological. - I'd agree with that, if you feel like you're restricting yourself from your favorite foods, or breaking from a routine it can be depressing. But to look at it in another way, you're also healing your body. Your hair, your skin, down to your guts are all going to benefit on this WOE. You'll find new things you enjoy while trying out new things and things you didn't like before now taste very sweet (grape tomatoes for me). I don't have Mc Donalds anymore but I sure enjoy the hell out of a huge box of chicken wings or some swiss cheese chicken bake!!
Pinterest and Instagram have been a huge WEALTH of knowledge recipe wise, I'd encourage you to sign up and check both out! Build yourself a keto or low carb board and start saving up whatever looks good to you. Desserts, snacks, meals, whatever you feel like starting out with. For me it gives me something to look forward to once I've collected all the ingredients. My favorite finds are the Mississippi Pot Roast and Creamy Swiss chicken Bake!5 -
SuperCarLori wrote: »I'm going to say this without sources, there's a link between serotonin and low carbing. Just so you can go do research. Perhaps supplementing can help? @KnitOrMiss probably has more information regarding this.
I didn't know that, that was an interesting rabbit hole I just went down. I know the keto flu is an imbalance of electrolytes & sodium but I wonder if this is another side effect of the same thing?2 -
SuperCarLori wrote: »I'm going to say this without sources, there's a link between serotonin and low carbing. Just so you can go do research. Perhaps supplementing can help? @KnitOrMiss probably has more information regarding this.
This! I definitely had weepy days at first. And a couple angry days. And chocolate would have "fixed" them. Are you able to go for a walk outside? Or any kind of movement, but outside seems to help me the most.2 -
Wooo I get this! I did not have it as long as you though. Like maybe just my first week? Maybe a little into the second.
I honestly think I was mourning ... if that's a thing. I don't demonize any food, but I was quickly coming to realize that for ME, carbs didn't work. But I loved them. Breads, cookies, potato chips OMG chips ... and we won't talk about that any more because, now, I'm roughly where you are at week wise, maybe 1 less ... I have this calm, well being feeling. My mood is elevated and I have energy where before I just wanted to sleep and eat.
SuperCarLori brings up a very interesting point though. Would be worth checking out. I know low serotonin levels can also be the culprit for anxiety/panic attacks. Do you have issues with those at all?4 -
Thanks so much for your responses.
In 2000, I went on a low carb diet for fibromyalgia/ hypoglycemia management. It really worked for pain management and improving mental clarity. As a side benefit, I lost the weight I had gained when I quit smoking. I went into that diet kind of like I'd approach a root canal: a necessary evil. I had cheat days at least twice a week. Since my attitude was this is a diet of deprivation, I eventually returned to my old ways of eating. As a result, I am now obese, and headed toward metabolic syndrome. I have been dieting off and on since 2008 using weight watchers and then CICO on MFP. I have never lost much weight in spite of being very compliant. In my frustration at no weight loss and being hungry all the time I remembered the low carb diet of 2000. This time my mindset was totally different going into it. I was excited for better pain control, a clearer mind, and eating all the fat I wanted. This girl likes her fat! I have said to my husband "this doesn't feel like a diet at all." There are lots of foods to eat that I love that I didn't allow myself the years on calorie restriction. So I don't think the apathy is a mind thing- it feels physiological.
I started off shooting for 50-100 gms of carb but didn't lose any weight the first week and got nervous so I have dropped to under 50 gms. I think that might be too low but if I add carbs maybe it needs to be in the form of non- starchy veg rather then dairy or a fruit serving? Do you find the type of carb is as important as the amount?
Do you find the type of carb is as important as the amount? - Yes. 10g of carbs from broccoli vs 10g of carbs from bread or potatoes is a massive difference micronutrient wise. You get so much more bang for your buck from the broccoli which is packed with vitamin C and gives you a good amount of fiber, whereas a potato is almost empty. While everyone has been so focused on calories they seem to have forgotten we still need vitamins and minerals too!
So I don't think the apathy is a mind thing- it feels physiological. - I'd agree with that, if you feel like you're restricting yourself from your favorite foods, or breaking from a routine it can be depressing. But to look at it in another way, you're also healing your body. Your hair, your skin, down to your guts are all going to benefit on this WOE. You'll find new things you enjoy while trying out new things and things you didn't like before now taste very sweet (grape tomatoes for me). I don't have Mc Donalds anymore but I sure enjoy the hell out of a huge box of chicken wings or some swiss cheese chicken bake!!
Pinterest and Instagram have been a huge WEALTH of knowledge recipe wise, I'd encourage you to sign up and check both out! Build yourself a keto or low carb board and start saving up whatever looks good to you. Desserts, snacks, meals, whatever you feel like starting out with. For me it gives me something to look forward to once I've collected all the ingredients. My favorite finds are the Mississippi Pot Roast and Creamy Swiss chicken Bake!
Just to add to this in terms of not all carbs being equal, when you eat the carbs that quickly turn to sugar or are sugar, for many, it seems to cause cravings for more. Personally, I have found I do much better not even using artificial sweeteners. It was a bit tough at the beginning, but now things like the occasional cashew taste sweet.
Sweets are like any addiction in that the more you have, the more you need to get the same effect. Many of the artificial sweeteners are 10 to 1000 times sweeter than sugar. HFCS is sweeter than sugar which is why they use it to replace fat in low fat foods to make them palatable.
Once I was actually able to taste real food properly, most of the carb cravings went away. In turn, my moods improved. The unsatisfied cravings were the issue causing the moods for me, not necessarily the lack of carbs. Now if only I could come up with the perfect keto friendly snack that could be munched in high volumes like all through a movie or a football game....1 -
I have been on this WOE 5 weeks today. The most distressing side affect has been apathy- a general feeling of " who gives a rip" about just about anything. Anybody else experience this and when can I expect it to let up? I know if I ate a giant sugar cookie I would be happy, happy, happy but I'm not going there. I want to just ride it out. Any experiences too share?
I am not the best one to give advice on this one, but here is my personal experiences:
LCHF did not make me depressed, nor make me feel down.
However, it was quite emotional.
The thought of never eating certain foods ever again did get to me at first. It felt almost like a breakup. But then the magic happened. I started understanding more about my macro's and realised, nothing is off limits. You can still eat it all and loose weight.
Before you think I have lost the plot, here goes:
I eat LCHF and I am in ketosis. Nothing is off my plan. All I need to do is to plan better.
Instead of eating a tub of ice cream, a few spoonfuls does the trick, and boy does it taste good. A glass of wine with our Sunday dinner. Berries with cream. Salt beef (corn beef) with coleslaw. Birthday cake? Yes I'll have some. But in the past I would eat loads, now I'll have a little bit and savour every mouthful. Rice you say? I can make a packet of microwave rice last 4-6 meals, as a few spoonfuls does it for me. I don't need a mountain of rice like in the olden days.
Once I got my head around the fact that YES I CAN EAT IT ALL my relationship with the foods changed overnight. I plan for one higher carbs day every week, and most of these days, I don't actually go mad at all. Just knowing I can, does it for me. This is what I like about this WOE.
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@Sarahb29 here's a photo.... miles of crinoline, lol. Best outfits have matching guys western style shirts.
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RowdysLady wrote: »If I was able to sew I'd make my daughter a bunch of fun clothes, but the sewing machine is really confusing to me. The threads always seem to get caught in the abyss under the machine and I don't really know what to do with it, lol.
Sigh...if only we were neighbors...I could teach you the sewing machine...but I'd bet that your bobbin is in wrong. Try threading it the other way and see if that helps.
That would be awesome! I've long forgotten even how to thread them (I'm so terrible at it, lol) but I made a laundry bag and pyjama pants in high school and LOVED the class. I liked being able to pick out my own patterns and make it however I wanted. It seemed like machines outside of the ones used at school were way different and overly complicated. I kept my little sewing kit but never did buy myself my own sewing machine, I really should though. With YouTube you can learn just about anything online.
I hope you got some ideas OP, I don't know if it would help your depressed feelings but it can't hurt to explore an interest. If the cravings for sweets gets to be too much, there are many keto friendly mug cakes and fat bombs you could make at home if you like. Fruity or chocolate teas have saved me a few times as well, with a little hot frothy heavy cream.. yum!!
@Sarahb29 - haven't finished the thread, but I swear to you, there are tutorials on youtube to teach you ANYTHING. Rethreading your exact machine? Bet someone out there has a video! LOL
Edited to add, I'm a moron, didn't even finish your above post. But yeah, there's youtube out there for everything...1 -
@cstehansen Re - football game snacks - I just made buffalo cauliflower bites that were pretty good, and traditional unbreaded chicken wings are perfect. If you want nachos, you can bake up a few low carb tortillas until crunchy, crunch them up into chips and add any low carb toppings you want (cheese, beef, sausage, peppers). Pork rinds, almonds, celery with your favorite dressing or beef jerky would be good movie snacks.
http://www.popsugar.com/fitness/Cauliflower-Buffalo-Wings-35971173 Swap the flour with any low carb flour of choice.
As far as eating something in high volume, I haven't found that either. I'd just be drinking lots of tea or water. Fruity or chocolate flavored hot tea with a little heavy cream usually hits the spot but it's not exactly easy to take to the movies.0 -
SuperCarLori wrote: »I'm going to say this without sources, there's a link between serotonin and low carbing. Just so you can go do research. Perhaps supplementing can help? @KnitOrMiss probably has more information regarding this.
I didn't know that, that was an interesting rabbit hole I just went down. I know the keto flu is an imbalance of electrolytes & sodium but I wonder if this is another side effect of the same thing?
Okay, my brain is very ADD at the moment, so I'm going to address this before I read anymore so I don't lose my train of thought as I've already done half a dozen times.
No, it really isn't like a dumping of things like electrolyte imbalance, but yes it is because of the restriction of carbs.
Basically, our neurotransmitter system is hella complicated, but when we're dumping the carbs into the system, it becomes kind of a bypass system.
The HUGE doc in charge of all the thyroid crap in Texas (on the thyroid summit thing right now) said basically that there is a STRONG connection between the brain, the thyroid gland, and the immune system. If any one of the three are overtaxed, it jacks up the other two.
Neurotransmitters (aka serotonin and the rest) require an almost perfect functioning thyroid in order to convert and be properly produced and to be able to be used once they are there. So yeah, we're all kind of a mess. Some of us are more susceptible to it than others.
I'm going to post the three articles that really kind of got me started. I'm taking a combination of amino acids timed separately in order to balance all this out. I am also highly focusing on all the micronutrients I've been missing as I've gone through this whole process.
I still haven't found my perfect level, but I'm a lot closer than I used to be...
carbsyndrome.com/is-your-brain-two-quarts-low/
foodrenegade.com/how-beat-sugar-cravings-glutamine/
https://afpafitness.com/research-articles/alcoholism-need-vitamins-become-well-2
And this last one addresses alcoholism specifically, but I believe it applies across all types of addictions. (Thanks, @SuperCarLori - even though I didn't see your tag pop up, I saw it when scrolling through the thread, for pulling me into this one....current OBSESSION and PASSION of mine!)1 -
Oh, and serotonin and all the rest are processed and converted and produced IN THE GUT - so if you have leaky gut, that is the center of ALL EVIL.1
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I have been on this WOE 5 weeks today. The most distressing side affect has been apathy- a general feeling of " who gives a rip" about just about anything. Anybody else experience this and when can I expect it to let up? I know if I ate a giant sugar cookie I would be happy, happy, happy but I'm not going there. I want to just ride it out. Any experiences too share?
I am not the best one to give advice on this one, but here is my personal experiences:
LCHF did not make me depressed, nor make me feel down.
However, it was quite emotional.
The thought of never eating certain foods ever again did get to me at first. It felt almost like a breakup. But then the magic happened. I started understanding more about my macro's and realised, nothing is off limits. You can still eat it all and loose weight.
Before you think I have lost the plot, here goes:
I eat LCHF and I am in ketosis. Nothing is off my plan. All I need to do is to plan better.
Instead of eating a tub of ice cream, a few spoonfuls does the trick, and boy does it taste good. A glass of wine with our Sunday dinner. Berries with cream. Salt beef (corn beef) with coleslaw. Birthday cake? Yes I'll have some. But in the past I would eat loads, now I'll have a little bit and savour every mouthful. Rice you say? I can make a packet of microwave rice last 4-6 meals, as a few spoonfuls does it for me. I don't need a mountain of rice like in the olden days.
Once I got my head around the fact that YES I CAN EAT IT ALL my relationship with the foods changed overnight. I plan for one higher carbs day every week, and most of these days, I don't actually go mad at all. Just knowing I can, does it for me. This is what I like about this WOE.
@Bonny132 - I was kind of the opposite. In the very first week or two, I felt better than I had in probably my entire life. And then, @Patti2008 - I hit that whole sludge of not giving a crap - about anything. I kept on because it was easier. But here I am, more than 18 months later, and learning more about all this stuff that I even knew existed, because I pushed my body too hard, too far, too fast.
One podcast I listened to recently said that if you do something for 6-12 weeks and do not get anywhere close to the results you're expecting, you are basically hurting yourself if you don't reevaluated and adjust. That is the only way to make ANY plan work for you. (I think he said idiot, but I couldn't remember.) But basically, if you go keto, and you don't get any energy or mental clarity or sugar craving ease - and that's why you were doing it - you need to reevaluate. Did you leave out a key nutrient you need? Do you need to drop something? AS? A once a week treat? Dairy (cries)? Etc. If you don't dig in and answer these questions, you'll never be able to achieve all the results you desire.
No one ever said lowering your carbs and increasing your fat was a miracle. Well, it is **kind of** a miracle, but no one said it's always easy. Finding your own little corner, your own little niche, with all your tips and tricks hidden away in it? Well building that cubby hole for yourself is the work you have to put in! Need to add exercise? Switch types? Drop it temporarily? Etc. All the questions to ask!!!!1 -
I did not actually feel depressed when I started this woe, I would agree with person above who labeled it "mourning". Mourning all the sweets I was so in love with. Maybe someday I will be able to eat just a few bites and feel satisfied as Bonny above, but right now I am too afraid to go down that road. If I get a case of the blahs (who doesn't?) I pick up one of my low carb books and read all the positive comments, studies, etc. That and a workout at the gym usually brings me back around.
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I found I went the other way, have suffered with depression for over 25 years and have been on and off meds for many years, when I started low carb my body started to feel better and I eventually attempted zero carb (under 5g per day) and was able to give up all meds - I have fallen off the wagon and have found the symptoms returning - so am now trying to get back on this way of life - and want to make it part of my life forever3
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canadjineh wrote: »@Sarahb29 here's a photo.... miles of crinoline, lol. Best outfits have matching guys western style shirts.
Yep. That's what they look like. I confess that I buy the crinoline (and petti pants that you can't see) underneath but the dresses I make myself.3 -
Also, read this. Lyle does a pretty good job of explaining the mechanisms of it all.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/carbohydrate-intake-and-depression-qa.html/2 -
Interesting article @Gallowmere1984 . Thanks for providing.1
