Misconception of LCHF: Post for Weight Loss
Options
Replies
-
baconslave wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!
No it's not.
Counting calories and eating at a deficit are two completely different, independent things.
A caloric deficit is required. Calorie counting is not, necessarily.
Ummm how do you know if your in a calorie deficit if you don't count???????
Are you losing weight and/or inches over the course of a month or so? Then you're in a caloric deficit.
Exactly! For those trying to lose weight you should track your calorie intake. You don't want to waste a month to blindly find out if you were in a calorie deficit or your "eyeball" way of measuring was on. Really for those who are new to the forum and those who are in weight loss mode you should track everything. This will keep you on track to reach your goals....
The crux is that people are all different. Some people can get away with not logging. They are THAT in tune with their bodies and hunger cues or have become very skilled at eyeballing or food selection. Personally, my cues are still pretty muddled and delayed, my eyeballing gets distorted over time, and my food demon is an insidious, rebellious, little turd, so I NEED to count calories. I need my finger on that pulse at all times. I need that enforced limit.
The point is, regardless of which methods are used, that calorie deficit is achieved. The details of that pursuit are personalized brain/chemistry hacking.
That's it!!!1 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!
No it's not.
Counting calories and eating at a deficit are two completely different, independent things.
A caloric deficit is required. Calorie counting is not, necessarily.
Ummm how do you know if your in a calorie deficit if you don't count???????
Are you losing weight and/or inches over the course of a month or so? Then you're in a caloric deficit.
Exactly! For those trying to lose weight you should track your calorie intake. You don't want to waste a month to blindly find out if you were in a calorie deficit or your "eyeball" way of measuring was on. Really for those who are new to the forum and those who are in weight loss mode you should track everything. This will keep you on track to reach your goals....
Who is to say someone is wasting a month? Maybe it would be to you, but someone else may have issues related to food/eating that need to be dealt with before worrying about a deficit. You don't know what someone else is dealing with.4 -
LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!
No it's not.
Counting calories and eating at a deficit are two completely different, independent things.
A caloric deficit is required. Calorie counting is not, necessarily.
Ummm how do you know if your in a calorie deficit if you don't count???????
Are you losing weight and/or inches over the course of a month or so? Then you're in a caloric deficit.
Exactly! For those trying to lose weight you should track your calorie intake. You don't want to waste a month to blindly find out if you were in a calorie deficit or your "eyeball" way of measuring was on. Really for those who are new to the forum and those who are in weight loss mode you should track everything. This will keep you on track to reach your goals....
Who is to say someone is wasting a month? Maybe it would be to you, but someone else may have issues related to food/eating that need to be dealt with before worrying about a deficit. You don't know what someone else is dealing with.
Hopefully you misunderstood the response this related too. The statement that I responded too was to not count calories and if you lost weight then you knew you were in a calorie deficit.
My stance is, count and track your calories if your in weight loss mode, then you know your in a deficit.
If you dont count, wait a month to find out, only to find that you gained weight then you were wrong in your not counting and underestimated your caloric intake.
You wasted 30 days of your journey by not tracking.
I also think that the original intent of this thread has gotten lost. I specifically started this thread for those who are in Weight Loss mode. No other issues, not maintenance etc... But hey this happens.1 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!
No it's not.
Counting calories and eating at a deficit are two completely different, independent things.
A caloric deficit is required. Calorie counting is not, necessarily.
Ummm how do you know if your in a calorie deficit if you don't count???????
Are you losing weight and/or inches over the course of a month or so? Then you're in a caloric deficit.
Exactly! For those trying to lose weight you should track your calorie intake. You don't want to waste a month to blindly find out if you were in a calorie deficit or your "eyeball" way of measuring was on. Really for those who are new to the forum and those who are in weight loss mode you should track everything. This will keep you on track to reach your goals....
Who is to say someone is wasting a month? Maybe it would be to you, but someone else may have issues related to food/eating that need to be dealt with before worrying about a deficit. You don't know what someone else is dealing with.
Hopefully you misunderstood the response this related too. The statement that I responded too was to not count calories and if you lost weight then you knew you were in a calorie deficit.
My stance is, count and track your calories if your in weight loss mode, then you know your in a deficit.
If you dont count, wait a month to find out, only to find that you gained weight then you were wrong in your not counting and underestimated your caloric intake.
You wasted 30 days of your journey by not tracking.
I also think that the original intent of this thread has gotten lost. I specifically started this thread for those who are in Weight Loss mode. No other issues, not maintenance etc... But hey this happens.
@JohnnyLowCarb hang in there and you too with get beyond the myth of counting calories being a long term solution to losing weight after LCHF helps your physical and mental health heal to the point your brain will tell you what and how much to put into your mouth and chew just as has been the case since recorded history.
The freedoms that comes with some version of LCHF can take time to realize so hang in there.
2 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!
No it's not.
Counting calories and eating at a deficit are two completely different, independent things.
A caloric deficit is required. Calorie counting is not, necessarily.
Ummm how do you know if your in a calorie deficit if you don't count???????
Are you losing weight and/or inches over the course of a month or so? Then you're in a caloric deficit.
Exactly! For those trying to lose weight you should track your calorie intake. You don't want to waste a month to blindly find out if you were in a calorie deficit or your "eyeball" way of measuring was on. Really for those who are new to the forum and those who are in weight loss mode you should track everything. This will keep you on track to reach your goals....JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!
No it's not.
Counting calories and eating at a deficit are two completely different, independent things.
A caloric deficit is required. Calorie counting is not, necessarily.
Ummm how do you know if your in a calorie deficit if you don't count???????
Are you losing weight and/or inches over the course of a month or so? Then you're in a caloric deficit.
Exactly! For those trying to lose weight you should track your calorie intake. You don't want to waste a month to blindly find out if you were in a calorie deficit or your "eyeball" way of measuring was on. Really for those who are new to the forum and those who are in weight loss mode you should track everything. This will keep you on track to reach your goals....
Who is to say someone is wasting a month? Maybe it would be to you, but someone else may have issues related to food/eating that need to be dealt with before worrying about a deficit. You don't know what someone else is dealing with.
Hopefully you misunderstood the response this related too. The statement that I responded too was to not count calories and if you lost weight then you knew you were in a calorie deficit.
My stance is, count and track your calories if your in weight loss mode, then you know your in a deficit.
If you dont count, wait a month to find out, only to find that you gained weight then you were wrong in your not counting and underestimated your caloric intake.
You wasted 30 days of your journey by not tracking.
I also think that the original intent of this thread has gotten lost. I specifically started this thread for those who are in Weight Loss mode. No other issues, not maintenance etc... But hey this happens.
Actually, it was you who missed my point.
I'm in weight loss mode. I don't track calories. I know I'm eating at a deficit because I'm losing weight.
A month is what's required to see meaningful change in pretty much every measure, regardless of what your goal or how you're trying to get there. Anything shorter than that, and you deal with things like water weight muddying the waters.
Case in point -- my weight doesn't move for three weeks out of four. At week four, it drops 3-5lbs in three days, with zero change in routine. I didn't just magically eat at maintenance for three weeks, then not eat anything for three days. I was losing fat, it just didn't show up on the scale right away. If I used a timeline any smaller than a month, I would not see the progress I actually make.
The same goes with the tape measure progress, especially if you're losing all over (and the body isn't favoring a particular part). Movement in any direction is going to be masked on a weekly basis by variations in measurement ("user error"), but on a monthly level, there will be enough difference to overcome that variation and see a noticeable trend.
More often than not, trying to rush things and not give something a solid 4-6 weeks (because people feel they are "wasting a month") results in people wasting more time as they jump from change to change to change, trying to get quick results.
You didn't gain the weight overnight, you're not going to lose it overnight.1 -
Ok - I guess some people here simply know it all and are determined to fight opposing points of view that will help newbies. For me, I needed to read the original post. Instead of learning it for myself.
For people to post that LCHF is great because you dont have to count calories is simply false!
Even those who are an expert and dont have to count calories, did not start out that way. They may after a long period of time got into a routine that they were comfortable with. It is even quoted in this thread, that it takes a lot of time to get into the rhythm of what works. You can reduce that time by tracking!
I dont post to help the experts, I post for those who come here to learn and help them in their journey. I post for those with the intent in my mind - of what I wish someone would have told me when I was starting out.0 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!
No it's not.
Counting calories and eating at a deficit are two completely different, independent things.
A caloric deficit is required. Calorie counting is not, necessarily.
Ummm how do you know if your in a calorie deficit if you don't count???????
Are you losing weight and/or inches over the course of a month or so? Then you're in a caloric deficit.
Exactly! For those trying to lose weight you should track your calorie intake. You don't want to waste a month to blindly find out if you were in a calorie deficit or your "eyeball" way of measuring was on. Really for those who are new to the forum and those who are in weight loss mode you should track everything. This will keep you on track to reach your goals....
Tracking everything that goes into my mouth is a recipe for disaster. I will freak out and binge within 2 weeks.
This is why blanket statements like this don't work.1 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!
No it's not.
Counting calories and eating at a deficit are two completely different, independent things.
A caloric deficit is required. Calorie counting is not, necessarily.
Ummm how do you know if your in a calorie deficit if you don't count???????
Are you losing weight and/or inches over the course of a month or so? Then you're in a caloric deficit.
Exactly! For those trying to lose weight you should track your calorie intake. You don't want to waste a month to blindly find out if you were in a calorie deficit or your "eyeball" way of measuring was on. Really for those who are new to the forum and those who are in weight loss mode you should track everything. This will keep you on track to reach your goals....
Who is to say someone is wasting a month? Maybe it would be to you, but someone else may have issues related to food/eating that need to be dealt with before worrying about a deficit. You don't know what someone else is dealing with.
Hopefully you misunderstood the response this related too. The statement that I responded too was to not count calories and if you lost weight then you knew you were in a calorie deficit.
My stance is, count and track your calories if your in weight loss mode, then you know your in a deficit.
If you dont count, wait a month to find out, only to find that you gained weight then you were wrong in your not counting and underestimated your caloric intake.
You wasted 30 days of your journey by not tracking.
I also think that the original intent of this thread has gotten lost. I specifically started this thread for those who are in Weight Loss mode. No other issues, not maintenance etc... But hey this happens.
And 30 days is such a short amount of time. During that 30 days you would have learned a lot about yourself, I certainly wouldn't consider learning a waste of time.2 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »
If you dont count, wait a month to find out, only to find that you gained weight then you were wrong in your not counting and underestimated your caloric intake.
You wasted 30 days of your journey by not tracking.
...rungirl1973 wrote: »
And 30 days is such a short amount of time. During that 30 days you would have learned a lot about yourself, I certainly wouldn't consider learning a waste of time.
See. EVERYTHING is a YMMV. 
1 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Ok - I guess some people here simply know it all and are determined to fight opposing points of view that will help newbies. For me, I needed to read the original post. Instead of learning it for myself.
For people to post that LCHF is great because you dont have to count calories is simply false!
Even those who are an expert and dont have to count calories, did not start out that way. They may after a long period of time got into a routine that they were comfortable with. It is even quoted in this thread, that it takes a lot of time to get into the rhythm of what works. You can reduce that time by tracking!
I dont post to help the experts, I post for those who come here to learn and help them in their journey. I post for those with the intent in my mind - of what I wish someone would have told me when I was starting out.
Sorry, but the tone of your posts sounds like you're telling people what they should do based on what works for you. You're telling people they HAVE to track in order to lose weight and we're saying that's not necessarily true.4 -
LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Ok - I guess some people here simply know it all and are determined to fight opposing points of view that will help newbies. For me, I needed to read the original post. Instead of learning it for myself.
For people to post that LCHF is great because you dont have to count calories is simply false!
Even those who are an expert and dont have to count calories, did not start out that way. They may after a long period of time got into a routine that they were comfortable with. It is even quoted in this thread, that it takes a lot of time to get into the rhythm of what works. You can reduce that time by tracking!
I dont post to help the experts, I post for those who come here to learn and help them in their journey. I post for those with the intent in my mind - of what I wish someone would have told me when I was starting out.
Sorry, but the tone of your posts sounds like you're telling people what they should do based on what works for you. You're telling people they HAVE to track in order to lose weight and we're saying that's not necessarily true.
I certainly cannot tell anyone what to do. I think I am done posting on these boards. No matter how you approach it you get such an adverse reaction to what your true intentions are. Simply trying to help those who need it (like I did) . Just not worth it any more. Good luck to everyone on their personal journeys!!!!!0 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Ok - I guess some people here simply know it all and are determined to fight opposing points of view that will help newbies. For me, I needed to read the original post. Instead of learning it for myself.
For people to post that LCHF is great because you dont have to count calories is simply false!
Even those who are an expert and dont have to count calories, did not start out that way. They may after a long period of time got into a routine that they were comfortable with. It is even quoted in this thread, that it takes a lot of time to get into the rhythm of what works. You can reduce that time by tracking!
I dont post to help the experts, I post for those who come here to learn and help them in their journey. I post for those with the intent in my mind - of what I wish someone would have told me when I was starting out.
You're right, I did start with counting calories, because that's what I was told I had to do to lose weight. It drove me to the brink of suicide when I was eating under what every calculator I could get my hands on said was a deficit and yet I wasn't losing weight.
For two years.
Two years without the scale moving so much as a fraction of a pound. Not days. Not weeks. Not months. And not "oh, I only lost 3 pounds this month!"
Two years (more, actually) of not being able to trust my hunger signals. Of fighting to stay under my calorie goals. Of working out to exhaustion, to no avail.
I was on the verge of giving up and just finding a way to deal with being fat and having no hope of losing weight, because my choice, as it was presented to me, was to be fat or to ruin my mental health (and probably kill myself) trying to count calories.
As they say, insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.
Then I found the frameworks that said, "hey, you don't have to count calories to lose weight. You have the option of basing it off of your hunger signals, and here's a way that a great many people have found to recalibrate their hunger signals to be reliable again, by eating the foods that are right for them!"
There's a difference--which I think you're overlooking--between "you don't have to" and "you must not."
In this way of eating, you don't have to count calories in order to lose weight. However, you are free to do so if it makes you feel better or helps you keep track of things or whatever your reason for doing so. No one's going to stop you and no one's going to condemn you for it.
Likewise, no one's going to say you absolutely have to track calories here, and most of us won't condemn you for not doing so.
In fact, if you stick around here long enough, you'll probably see me suggest to someone to track their food for a time, because it provides valuable insight into how much you are consuming (and no, it doesn't always reveal that you're consuming too much, especially on this WOE). However, it's more nuanced than "you need to count calories to lose weight." Tracking your intake is good to see where your hunger signals are at and to calibrate your mind to gauge how much food a given meal is. Oftentimes, we feel like we've eaten a ton when we haven't, or we feel like we've barely eaten when we've eaten a ton. We've also been indoctrinated that eating fatty foods means eating way over calories, so tracking allows us to see what it feels like to eat a normal amount of calories this way (and frequently, people find that they feel like they've eaten a ton and have actually eaten far less than they realize).
So, it's a good idea to listen to what people with more experience are telling you, instead of insisting on such blanket statements as "For people to post that LCHF is great because you dont have to count calories is simply false!" and "I see so many articles promoting LCHF as a diet where you don't have to count calories - for weight loss - this is WRONG!" because then you'll see that they're/we're not saying that there is no benefit from tracking calories and that you shouldn't do it, but rather that your mileage may vary, what works for you won't necessarily work for others, and what's wrong here are your blanket assertions, not the fact that you and some others benefit from calorie counting.
On a side note -- we've gone in depth about the pros and cons of calorie counting vs not, so it's not like you're likely to find hard-and-fast assertions in either direction here, at least not without being challenged. As you can see, if/when they pop up, they are quickly refuted, because as a group, we understand that blanket statements don't work (that's why most of us are here).
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10093268/doesnt-counting-calories-count/p1
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10104276/we-need-a-pro-calorie-counting-thread-discussion/p14 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Ok - I guess some people here simply know it all and are determined to fight opposing points of view that will help newbies. For me, I needed to read the original post. Instead of learning it for myself.
For people to post that LCHF is great because you dont have to count calories is simply false!
Even those who are an expert and dont have to count calories, did not start out that way. They may after a long period of time got into a routine that they were comfortable with. It is even quoted in this thread, that it takes a lot of time to get into the rhythm of what works. You can reduce that time by tracking!
I dont post to help the experts, I post for those who come here to learn and help them in their journey. I post for those with the intent in my mind - of what I wish someone would have told me when I was starting out.
Sorry, but the tone of your posts sounds like you're telling people what they should do based on what works for you. You're telling people they HAVE to track in order to lose weight and we're saying that's not necessarily true.
I certainly cannot tell anyone what to do. I think I am done posting on these boards. No matter how you approach it you get such an adverse reaction to what your true intentions are. Simply trying to help those who need it (like I did) . Just not worth it any more. Good luck to everyone on their personal journeys!!!!!
When you posted, "For people to post that LCHF is great because you dont have to count calories is simply false!" which some of us know to be false you are going to get some push back because of the harm that you can do to new readers who think your post may be factual and act on it.
You may count calories, carbs or whatever you wish. Just do not make a false statement that one has to count calories. While most of us globally know the calories we eat yet we can have a 1000 day or a 4000 calorie day without freaking out because we do not know the count for sure.
Now that I have a macro that is working for me I just eat until I get full. I do keep tabs on my net CICO results by weighing my body from time to time. LCHF in time fixed my mind and body so intuitive eating returned to manage my weight.
Being a slave to anything is not what I call freedom.
3 -
I thought this discussion was very respectful...just a few people saying hey this wasn't a myth for me. Not counting calories worked for me, counting works for you.
It's exciting when you find something that works for you and you do want to spread the gospel so to speak. You just know if everyone knew what you knew they'd get your results but in time you realize not always. I know I'm constantly biting my tongue because I want to tell everyone to go LCHF. However I know it's not the right fit for everyone. I've gotten a few people on board who love it and a few others who were miserable and hated it and didn't see any benefit despite following to the letter.6 -
JohnnyLowCarb wrote: »Ok - I guess some people here simply know it all and are determined to fight opposing points of view that will help newbies. For me, I needed to read the original post. Instead of learning it for myself.
For people to post that LCHF is great because you dont have to count calories is simply false!
Even those who are an expert and dont have to count calories, did not start out that way. They may after a long period of time got into a routine that they were comfortable with. It is even quoted in this thread, that it takes a lot of time to get into the rhythm of what works. You can reduce that time by tracking!
I dont post to help the experts, I post for those who come here to learn and help them in their journey. I post for those with the intent in my mind - of what I wish someone would have told me when I was starting out.
For me, your statements about counting calories were true. I'm in maintenance now and I still have to count calories. I'm just too new to keto and at this point I am still getting used to my body's signals regarding when to eat, etc. So it's too soon for me to stop counting calories. I can see a day down the road though, after staying with this WOE when counting calories wouldn't be necessary. I hope you will continue to post here with the rest of us. We're all here to learn and share what has worked (or hasn't worked) for us.6 -
I loved it when I understood "a calorie isn't a calorie".2
-
dulcitonia wrote: »I loved it when I understood "a calorie isn't a calorie".
Sometimes it's a windmill, sometimes a snipe.1 -
It's ok, @JohnnyLowCarb, please don't run off upset... just note that anytime ANYONE says "You Must XYZ," there are also quite a few others who don't need to do XYZ to be successful. We appreciate how excited you are to find something that works so well for you.
No one is actually out to 'snipe' at you.
4 -
@JohnnyLowCarb after just watching;
http:https://youtube.com/watch?v=wMC7ULTSPEE//
I realized I came on strong for some reason that may be 60 years old totally failing to understand why you said what you said.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qFjL62-9Qyw was helpful to me and you may find some helpful points in understanding my failure to relate as well as I should.
0 -
I know for me (and I only speak for me) - I simply do not believe in the whole CICO thing. When I was young, (like, 16), I did not have a whacked out metabolism or hormones, and weight watchers managed to help me lose weight on a lower calorie diet. When I became metabolically disordered, it did NOT matter what kind of deficit I had... I could eat 500 cals a day and not lose weight. I could eat the "recommended" amount, and not lose weight.
For me, I cannot obsess over the calorie count - it will become an unhealthy obsession. I DO track my food for the sake of my macros and to understand what's working, and what's not, but I could care less if at the end of the day that tallies to 800 calories or 1400 calories or even 1800 calories. My progress on LCHF/Keto has been fantastic - weight down, feeling better, diabetic symptoms receding. No other way of eating has done that, and allowed me to keep a level of sanity I could not keep with other "diets".
If counting calories works for others, then that's great.. but it simply is never going to work for me, and I don't really want it to. I just want to get to a point where I know I am eating healthily, in a way that my body responds to in a healthy way.
My only expectation on this journey, is of myself - and I am the only person I answer to ultimately.
2
