next a USA Today report on bacon?

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Replies

  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    Hmph. Saturated fat causes CAD, huh? It's stated like there is rock solid science behind that "fact". LOL
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    Gary Taubes responds in a guest post

    http://www.cardiobrief.org/2017/06/16/guest-post-vegetable-oils-francis-bacon-bing-crosby-and-the-american-heart-association/

    "For whatever reason, when it comes to heart disease and dietary fat, the investigators whom the American Heart Association chooses to determine what we should or should not eat have never been believers in this kind of, well, scientific methodology."

  • AlexandraCarlyle
    AlexandraCarlyle Posts: 1,603 Member
    edited June 2017
    Superb article.
    I would however, point out one tiny yet glaring error, which any pedant such as I, is far too quick to pick up on....
    The first rule of medicine, preventive or otherwise, is still do no harm, and they’re making no attempt to assess harm.

    and -
    Did I say that the first rule of medicine, as Hippocrates pointed out, is do no harm? I believe I did.


    Mr Taubes is mistaken.

    Nowhere, either in the original and ancient script of the Hippocratic Oath, nor in subsequent modern versions, does the promise of 'do no harm' actually appear.
    The wording is subtly different, and as such, actually compounds Gary Taubes' argument a lot better.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#Text_of_the_oath

    Ok. I've finished now.
    I know that this is how I make enemies, but I'm stickler for accuracy.
    Particularly in those who frankly, should know....
    Taubes, of course, is an investigative science and health journalist ....

    ...better.
    (Sorry.)
  • Just_Eric
    Just_Eric Posts: 233 Member
    Gonna go ahead and ignore the advice of one of the leading culprits in the 30+ year spike in Americans' abysmal health. The AHA, if I may be so crass, can suck me until my *kitten* caves in.
  • 2t9nty
    2t9nty Posts: 1,621 Member


    Mr Taubes is mistaken.

    Nowhere, either in the original and ancient script of the Hippocratic Oath, nor in subsequent modern versions, does the promise of 'do no harm' actually appear.
    The wording is subtly different, and as such, actually compounds Gary Taubes' argument a lot better.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#Text_of_the_oath

    The translation of the oldest one has the phrase, "I will abstain from all intentional wrong-doing and harm."

    I am not sure I see the distinction.

  • AlexandraCarlyle
    AlexandraCarlyle Posts: 1,603 Member
    Yes, it is contained. But I should have been more specific.

    Nowhere, either in the original and ancient script of the Hippocratic Oath, nor in subsequent modern versions, does the promise of 'do no harm' actually appear as the very first Oath. .

    That's where Taubes' error lies. And he's certainly not alone.

    Fundamentally, it is as glaring an error as that one made by people uttering the phrase -

    "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." (Dante's Inferno) which of course again, is wildly inaccurate.
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    Yes, it is contained. But I should have been more specific.

    Nowhere, either in the original and ancient script of the Hippocratic Oath, nor in subsequent modern versions, does the promise of 'do no harm' actually appear as the very first Oath. .

    That's where Taubes' error lies. And he's certainly not alone.

    Fundamentally, it is as glaring an error as that one made by people uttering the phrase -

    "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here." (Dante's Inferno) which of course again, is wildly inaccurate.

    Am I understanding that the number of the oath he claimed it was is the issue you had with it?
    Cuz I think that probably makes zero difference to the subject of the entire piece.
  • AlexandraCarlyle
    AlexandraCarlyle Posts: 1,603 Member
    I told you I was an irritating pedant that makes enemies this way.

    I think it's part of my OCD.

    I get it from my dad. He's passed on. I think some people wish I would.

    Sorry. :(
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Thanks for the link. Before I could pick out the medically false broad statements stories like this caused me stress. On Keto my LDL has increased but the recently NMR lipid panel said it was the large type so no health risk. My HLD has more than doubled and my triglycerides are at a life time low before Keto.
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    Here's another rebuttal

    "Interestingly enough, blood triglycerides do not go up with eating fat—they go up if you eat a diet high in processed grains, starches, and sugar. Unfortunately for the proponents of high-carbohydrate diets, high blood triglycerides are a major risk factor for heart disease. In addition, low fat/high carb diets lower protective “good” cholesterol and raise insulin. These diets are implicated in the development of diabetes, which is a potent risk factor for developing heart disease."

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-heart-associations-junk-science-diet
  • KeithF6250
    KeithF6250 Posts: 321 Member
    Superb article.
    I would however, point out one tiny yet glaring error, which any pedant such as I, is far too quick to pick up on....
    The first rule of medicine, preventive or otherwise, is still do no harm, and they’re making no attempt to assess harm.

    and -
    Did I say that the first rule of medicine, as Hippocrates pointed out, is do no harm? I believe I did.


    Mr Taubes is mistaken.

    Nowhere, either in the original and ancient script of the Hippocratic Oath, nor in subsequent modern versions, does the promise of 'do no harm' actually appear.
    The wording is subtly different, and as such, actually compounds Gary Taubes' argument a lot better.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#Text_of_the_oath

    Ok. I've finished now.
    I know that this is how I make enemies, but I'm stickler for accuracy.
    Particularly in those who frankly, should know....
    Taubes, of course, is an investigative science and health journalist ....

    ...better.
    (Sorry.)

    Did not know that. Should have. I may have become an ex-pendant.
  • AlexandraCarlyle
    AlexandraCarlyle Posts: 1,603 Member
    KeithF6250 wrote: »
    Superb article.
    I would however, point out one tiny yet glaring error, which any pedant such as I, is far too quick to pick up on....
    The first rule of medicine, preventive or otherwise, is still do no harm, and they’re making no attempt to assess harm.

    and -
    Did I say that the first rule of medicine, as Hippocrates pointed out, is do no harm? I believe I did.


    Mr Taubes is mistaken.

    Nowhere, either in the original and ancient script of the Hippocratic Oath, nor in subsequent modern versions, does the promise of 'do no harm' actually appear.
    The wording is subtly different, and as such, actually compounds Gary Taubes' argument a lot better.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath#Text_of_the_oath

    Ok. I've finished now.
    I know that this is how I make enemies, but I'm stickler for accuracy.
    Particularly in those who frankly, should know....
    Taubes, of course, is an investigative science and health journalist ....

    ...better.
    (Sorry.)

    Did not know that. Should have. I may have become an ex-pendant.

    Don't worry, there's always room for improvement.
    OI should know!
  • Retrofit55
    Retrofit55 Posts: 68 Member
    2t9nty wrote: »

    The final study cited in the newspaper article (with some derision), "Medium Chain Triglyceride Oil Consumption as Part of a Weight Loss Diet Does Not Lead to an Adverse Metabolic Profile When Compared to Olive Oil," contains a statement that formed the basis of my former hyperanxiety about getting enough raw veggies, that is, " Our previous studies with medium chain triglyceride (MCT) oil showed reductions in TC and LDL-C and no change in HDL-C or TG [6,7] but OUR MCT OIL WAS FED ALONG WITH PLANT STEROLS, WHICH ARE KNOWN TO REDUCE TC and LDL-C [9,10]..." [my caps].

    Other sources which support the use of MCTs claim that a high fat diet in the absence of adequate phytonutrients can impair liver function so much that even a non (alcohol) drinker can develop the fatty deposits and cirrhosis of the liver characteristic of, and as grave as, that suffered by long-term chronic alcoholics.

    However, although I am carefully watching my cholesterol labs as I progress through keto, I am certainly not going to get bent out of shape by articles that tell me I am making a mistake with keto and my medium chain triglycerides. According to the USDA, here in the US the per capita annual consumption of refined sugars is 150 to 170 pounds. And that is only the average, some of us eat up to 295 pounds of refined sugars per year. And I was certainly on the medium or high end of that scale pre-keto.

    I figure any WOE, including LCHF, that successfully resolves the intense cravings I've lived with for decades AND frees me from consuming anything close to the national US average in refined sugars is much too valuable to dismiss because of reports of increased LDL and TC levels with accompanying increased risk of CAD, particularly those reports (such as this article) that were calculated on the basis of a diet that did NOT include plant phenols.

    It may be a challenge, but I'll FIND a way (without dropping down the rabbit hole of plant science) to get my veggies on LCHF if that's what it takes to lose weight, lower my blood sugars, get fit, and maintain a low LDL & TC without a poisonous cholesterol pill.
  • Retrofit55
    Retrofit55 Posts: 68 Member
    Coconut oil is bad but you should eat 6-8 servings of grains a day, like I'd listen to anything the American Heart Association says.

    Indeed.
  • Retrofit55
    Retrofit55 Posts: 68 Member
    Truly, as Taubes said: "The history of science is littered with failed hypotheses based on selective interpretation of the evidence."

    So I wonder what sort of selective interpretation the "authorities" will dream up to justify their contempt for LCHF and their insistence on high carb diets when confronted with the following graphs?


    http://livingfructosefree.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/calories-vs-obesity.jpg
    j206iwq75qk8.png

    http://livingfructosefree.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/HFCS-Graph-post.jpg7afc2qu0stkx.png
  • AlexandraCarlyle
    AlexandraCarlyle Posts: 1,603 Member
    All someone has to do is to 'accidentally' flip the chart upside-down... and voila! We're all wrong!!

    (You may laugh. But isn't that what some say nay-sayers did with the climate charts in trying to disprove Global Warming....?!
  • Retrofit55
    Retrofit55 Posts: 68 Member
    I told you I was an irritating pedant that makes enemies this way.

    I think it's part of my OCD.

    I get it from my dad. He's passed on. I think some people wish I would.

    Sorry. :(

    No harm in being a stickler! I like the details. That's what it takes to make valid decisions.

    I noted though, while reading Louis Lasagna's modernized (holistic) 1964 version of the Oath, still used in US medical schools, that it is disappointingly watered down. I find it alarming that it contains absolutely no reference to doing no harm to the patient. It is an omission that sure explains a lot about modern medical practice...a lot of our doctors have NOT taken an oath not to hurt us.