AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »

I told you I was an irritating pedant that makes enemies this way.

I think it's part of my OCD.

I get it from my dad. He's passed on. I think some people wish I would.

Sorry.

No, Alexandra, we want you to stick around! And bring your OCD! It's time to put the fun back into dysfunctional!

It's extremely difficult to find accurate information on the intake of fats, and the reduction of carbs, although some nutrition programmes still bang on about wholemeal, complete grains, rye, brown bread, potatoes in their skins, brown rice, wholegrain pasta... as all being wholesome, nutritious - and necessary.
Every time I hear information like that being broadcast far and wide, I cringe and wince inwardly.
I also - I admit - yell at the TV.

The latest "Eat well for Less" programme on BBC TV had a "Scottish" family having to deal with a shopping obsession ("Buy two of everything, it's on offer!") Which focused mainly on fries, waffles, hash browns, ready-mixed fried rice....and their multiple-times-per-week habit of takeaways - mainly KFC and Doner Kebabs - a disgusting "treat" which over here, is absolutely nothing like the proper foodstuff from Turkey - which to my great fortune, I have actually tasted.

They tested different Hummus pastes on offer from different outlets, and of course, had the ubiquitous lesson on "Healthy carbs"...

I don't know if you can receive this or stream it, but the whole programme is so contrived, I would hazard a guess the family went back to their old way of eating in fewer than 30 seconds after the 2 presenters left their home....!

I despair, really I do.... People are still swallowing (literally!) this rubbish, hook line and sinker!

(Have you forgiven me yet. @Sunny_Bunny_ ....?)

AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »

It's extremely difficult to find accurate information on the intake of fats, and the reduction of carbs, although some nutrition programmes still bang on about wholemeal, complete grains, rye, brown bread, potatoes in their skins, brown rice, wholegrain pasta... as all being wholesome, nutritious - and necessary.
Every time I hear information like that being broadcast far and wide, I cringe and wince inwardly.
I also - I admit - yell at the TV.

The latest "Eat well for Less" programme on BBC TV had a "Scottish" family having to deal with a shopping obsession ("Buy two of everything, it's on offer!") Which focused mainly on fries, waffles, hash browns, ready-mixed fried rice....and their multiple-times-per-week habit of takeaways - mainly KFC and Doner Kebabs - a disgusting "treat" which over here, is absolutely nothing like the proper foodstuff from Turkey - which to my great fortune, I have actually tasted.

They tested different Hummus pastes on offer from different outlets, and of course, had the ubiquitous lesson on "Healthy carbs"...

I don't know if you can receive this or stream it, but the whole programme is so contrived, I would hazard a guess the family went back to their old way of eating in fewer than 30 seconds after the 2 presenters left their home....!

I despair, really I do.... People are still swallowing (literally!) this rubbish, hook line and sinker!

(Have you forgiven me yet. @Sunny_Bunny_ ....?)

Of course! Was never upset to begin with.
Honestly, I was confused for a bit because I thought your trouble with Taubes was related to the science but I couldn't figure out what point you might have been opposed to. Lol
Then, only after other comments, did I realize it was his usage of that quote. Lol
I'm not at all a literary person, not highly educated either. Y'all gonna lose me in your fancy talk!

AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »

Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »

AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »

It's extremely difficult to find accurate information on the intake of fats, and the reduction of carbs, although some nutrition programmes still bang on about wholemeal, complete grains, rye, brown bread, potatoes in their skins, brown rice, wholegrain pasta... as all being wholesome, nutritious - and necessary.
Every time I hear information like that being broadcast far and wide, I cringe and wince inwardly.
I also - I admit - yell at the TV.

The latest "Eat well for Less" programme on BBC TV had a "Scottish" family having to deal with a shopping obsession ("Buy two of everything, it's on offer!") Which focused mainly on fries, waffles, hash browns, ready-mixed fried rice....and their multiple-times-per-week habit of takeaways - mainly KFC and Doner Kebabs - a disgusting "treat" which over here, is absolutely nothing like the proper foodstuff from Turkey - which to my great fortune, I have actually tasted.

They tested different Hummus pastes on offer from different outlets, and of course, had the ubiquitous lesson on "Healthy carbs"...

I don't know if you can receive this or stream it, but the whole programme is so contrived, I would hazard a guess the family went back to their old way of eating in fewer than 30 seconds after the 2 presenters left their home....!

I despair, really I do.... People are still swallowing (literally!) this rubbish, hook line and sinker!

(Have you forgiven me yet. @Sunny_Bunny_ ....?)

Of course! Was never upset to begin with.
Honestly, I was confused for a bit because I thought your trouble with Taubes was related to the science but I couldn't figure out what point you might have been opposed to. Lol
Then, only after other comments, did I realize it was his usage of that quote. Lol
I'm not at all a literary person, not highly educated either. Y'all gonna lose me in your fancy talk!

MY 'fancy talk' isn't worth a tuppenny bit in comparison to what you know and have taught me.

You give me waaaay too much credit! But thanks bunches!

Retrofit55 wrote: »

kpk54 wrote: »

HFCS=high fructose corn syrup. I do believe the 2nd chart is representative of what happened with the increased use of HFCS. True it probably coincides with the fear of fat craze so when fat was lowered in foods and the use of HFCS increased (cheap and improve palatability) average weight per person went up. That particular graph doesn't show anything regarding fat intake does it?

The bottom line to both of them is, the population from 1970 to 2000 or so increased overall calorie intake despite reducing fat. (at least from what I've read).

Precisely, kpk54. Beginning with the Nixon administration in the early 70s, federal agencies launched new dietary guidelines telling us we should be avoiding fats at all costs and simultaneously amping up our "healthy grains" intake (which usually turned out to be in the form of easy to produce and easy to eat refined wheat and, worse still, refined wheat with flavor enhanced with ever-increasing amounts and varieties of HFCS -- which is now ubiquitous in our grocery stores.) Ultimately, as the graphs demonstrate, the high carb, low fat dietary recommendations initiated a decades' long escalation in obesity rates (and obesity-related morbidities) in the US.

Although the graphs do not show fat consumption, it was generally in inverse proportion to our refined sugar intake. These statistics ought to prove to the USDA (and others) that their high carb, low fat advice was staggeringly off target...but the bad advice we're still getting from them shows they are ignoring the evidence. It makes one wonder what sort of "incentives" the policymakers are receiving from sugar and grain industry giants to ignore such compelling evidence at the expense of the health of the American people.

Well, the thing is, they now say that the increased sugar consumption is essentially people taking their advice wrong. If you read all the articles about how fat is replaced by sugar, it's nearly always written in such a way that says "that's not what we said to do when reducing fat!" (never mind the push for grains, grains and more grains).

Type a google search for "food consumption over the decades" and you'll find a plethora of articles and abstracts indicating increased calories.. The reasons are everything from reducing fats and increasing carbs, to being supersized in restaurants, to intentional increased palatability of (primarily) packaged foods, to the size of dinnerware.

I became overweight because I ate too much and I ate too much for many different reasons.

(These poor kittens are sure getting a whuppin'!)

I think they're keeping their kitten end up!!

Did folks see this one? http://sustainabledish.com/coconut-oil-wont-kill-listening-american-heart-association-might/

kpk54 wrote: »

Type a google search for "food consumption over the decades" and you'll find a plethora of articles and abstracts indicating increased calories.. The reasons are everything from reducing fats and increasing carbs, to being supersized in restaurants, to intentional increased palatability of (primarily) packaged foods, to the size of dinnerware.

I became overweight because I ate too much and I ate too much for many different reasons.

This is true for me too.

I don't believe that my family (including back in the 70s and 80s, when I was a kid) ate more grains or carbs (we were a big potatoes family, more than grains), because of food recommendations, even though I recall being vaguely aware of anti fat sentiment as a kid. It was well-understood that the healthy grains were supposed to be the whole grain ones (I recall learning in school that you had to look for "whole wheat" or "whole grain," as not all brown bread was such), that there was a big difference (or so we believed) between something like plain Quaker oats and all of the flavored packages, and that -- of course -- sugar was not healthy. Muffins were basically desserts that we sometimes had for breakfast for fun (like a sugary cereal -- although I always hated those -- or special occasion pancakes or waffles, which we'd have with bacon and eggs anyway, normally).

I also remember every meal being meat, potatoes, and veg (like I said, we did more potatoes than grains, but my grandfather, who had been a farmer, was the biggest grain person I knew). This was culture, not food recommendations (if anything I figured we should be eating more fruit and veg than we were.) Any grains+sugar or grains + fat (except the fat we added ourselves -- butter, cheese, etc.) that came that way was considered an unhealthy food, likely a snack food, not a wholesome one. (I know some of my era grew up eating lots of sugary cereals, but I recall even back then no one thought those were healthy, just that kids would eat them and that it was okay to have a not especially healthy breakfast. My family had sugary cereals as a special treat -- my sister got to have it on the weekend, I hated it so got L'Eggos or some such, which were obviously just as bad or worse -- but we didn't think this was healthy, it was an exception, and my sister and I were thin.)

I'm always shocked when I hear how low vegetable consumption is in the US, because for my family it was always required, and understand as the basics of a healthy meal (along with meat, grains/potatoes were the "fill you up!" element). So when people blame the guidelines for the diet, I can't help but look at the vegetable issues and getting grains from snack food vs. whole grain sources and say no way. And I say this even though I now think the merits of whole grains are way overstated (and the current thing about coconut oil being bad is dumb).