Anyone suffer from insomnia/disrupted sleep patterns?
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Waking around 2-3 am is actually a protective reflex to my understanding. That's when folks most likely are at risk for a stroke due to dehydration and reduced electrolytes, so this makes a lot of sense...science wise...
I don't have a problem falling asleep once I'm in bed... I'm naturally more nocturnal despite having an early morning job, so getting in bed before midnight is crazy difficult for me, even when I have to get up at 5:30-6:00 am...
Interesting. I try and try to get to bed before midnight, and I wake up around 5-5:30, no problem, no alarm clock (I would like to consistently get 6+ hours of sleep, ideally), but the main thing that I struggle with is waking up around 2:30-3 and sometimes not being able to fall back asleep. Hate it. I found that if I cut caffeine (I drink too much coffee), especially after noon, it helps, which was disappointing.
I've tried ZMA, but forget to take it.
Interesting there's some reason to the timing.0 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »There is no question it works. It works for me, it works for an awful lot of people... I hope you guys try it.... let me know.
But hey! Don't hold me as responsible if it doesn't!
I did try it, and it definitely worked for me. The combination of the pink salt to get to sleep, and the dissolvable melatonin when I wake up 3 hrs later to get back to sleep after my bathroom trip seems to work well.
I'm just now getting my sleep mojo back after menopause, so I should say I also take progesterone around 8pm (a couple of hours before bedtime), and that probably helps too.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@EggToni - I use the 5-htp with cofactors to sleep, but I balance it with tyrosine for my thyroid function during the day... There are a good number of sites that talk about this, as well as low carb experts.
GABA is said to be better for sleep, but it is harder to lock in on a dose for. But depending on whether your difficult sleeping is due to anxiety, higher cortisol, etc., depends on what you should take.
www.everywomanover29.com has a good breakdown on what is for which. As does the author of "The Mood Cure."
@KnitOrMiss Thanks for the info. I will check it out. I'm pretty sure it is due to stress.1 -
BTW I really appreciate all the helpful info I have received by some of you. It is pretty awesome.
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@EggToni - Something else I use that really helps is that I have a blue-blocker on my phone - and I use a meditation app to fall asleep. It's a piece of music that I ONLY use to go to sleep with. And if I wake up to use the restroom and can't get back to sleep, I use it then, again, too. My mind is getting better trained to relax and sleep with that particular music. It's just a basic free meditation app with a timer.
Oh, and I use "Sleep Time" as a morning alarm. It wakes you up any time inside a 30 minute window based on when you are in your lightest sleep (the phone is on the bed next to you while you sleep and it tracks movement, etc.). Even if I end up waking up at the beginning of the 30 minute window, I always feel more rested than if my alarm jolted me out of deep sleep or a dream. It's annoying as a person who loves her sleep to feel "short-changed" of that 30 minutes, BUT, and it's a HUGE but...it takes only a few times of waking up and not feeling groggy/like you want to shoot the alarm clock to make you realize what a difference it makes!
I've gradually developed a whole "sleeping regimen" to improve my sleep...so these things happened over several months.
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
I think this is one of those pages that kind of explains which aminos are better for what...
Excerpt: Supplements for low GABA (stiff and tense muscles, anxious, panic attacks, use sugar/wine to relax)
Supplements for low serotonin (worry, rumination, negativity, afternoon and evening cravings and insomnia)
And so on .... I've saved down a number of information pages, so if you're any questions or it seems like a link I post didn't include the info expected, let me know, it may be in a different link...
Oh, and this is the article that got me started on the amino path in the first place!
http://carbsyndrome.com/is-your-brain-two-quarts-low/1 -
Nothing works for me.
5-htp
melatonin
salt
collagen
herbal stuff: valerian, passionflower, and etc.
Blue blocking glasses and sleep hygiene
I wake up 4 times a night. No matter what. Unless I drunk myself to the point of almost being sick, then I will sometimes sleep 5hrs straight. But it's not a sure thing, and I feel like garbage the next day (duh), and I'm not about to murder my liver.
If anyone has a Miracle in their pocket, I could sure use one.
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I listen to miscellaneous "educational" (versus music) videos and podcasts at night. I put the screen face down and turn the volume down really low so i can just barely hear it. I rarely make it past 10 minutes. Seems like it should keep me awake but it puts me right to sleep. I suppose it could be my version of "white noise". I have no trouble sleeping and only occasionally wake up in the middle of the night.2
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@KnitOrMiss that makes sense, although I do TRY To sleep - sometimes my brain will not shut off despite how tired I am. I'm also an incredibly light sleeper and noise wakes me easily. Makes for a bad sleeping combo (especially with a snoring husband).0
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@KnitOrMiss that makes sense, although I do TRY To sleep - sometimes my brain will not shut off despite how tired I am. I'm also an incredibly light sleeper and noise wakes me easily. Makes for a bad sleeping combo (especially with a snoring husband).
Would a white noise machine help? It's like really low level static. It kind of muffles the impact of everything else. It's not for everyone, though.
My neighbor sleeps with earplugs due to thin apartment walls!0 -
I used to suffer from chronic insomnia. In fact according to my mum, even as a baby I had sleep issues.
It's not as bad lately, I think getting healthier overall has helped me get better sleep. But I still have bouts of insomnia now and then. I also rarely sleep through the night, waking from 2 to 5 times in any given night.
I do have one bad sleep habit; I need the TV on to fall asleep. There's a handful of documentaries I play over and over, so I'm not really paying attention to them, I just need the audio to give me something mundane for my brain to latch on to.
This'll make me sound crazy, but I got into that habit because my house is somewhat haunted and I needed to drown out the inexplicable noises otherwise I couldn't sleep at all. TV was better than the bangs and bumps coming from the cellar, or the footsteps pacing outside my bedroom, or the kitchen shelves being rattled.1 -
I guess we are all just different. Before Keto I went to sleep as soon as I put on my CPAP mask and head hit the pillow and slept all night without getting up. After three years of Keto WOE nothing has changed with my sleep pattern.
Glycine is something that I recently started self testing that some claims can improve sleep patterns but I am working to lower CRP test numbers.
https://examine.com/supplements/glycine/
https://selfhacked.com/2016/04/11/glycine-little-protein/
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I have had disrupted sleep patterns since puberty, what clearly started as hormonal is also a pattern that is strongly embedded in all the women in my family so genetic? learned? who knows. I've tried most everything, but certainly not it all. What consistently works for me is earplugs. They allow me to hear my children....though the little buggers still have startled the crap out of me....but block out most things. I swear by them. It is like the blockage in my ears allows my mind to settle.
Currently, I take Melatonin and Benedryl at bedtime and with my ear plugs I sleep a (usually) solid 5 hours. If I wake before 2am I'll take another Melatonin. It is true, that when my salt levels are low I don't sleep as well (if you can call it well) as when they are higher. So for me, I can attest to salt helping. Dissolving it in my mouth didn't have any different effect on my sleep than having generally appropriate levels of sodium throughout the day though.0 -
baconslave wrote: »Nothing works for me.
5-htp
melatonin
salt
collagen
herbal stuff: valerian, passionflower, and etc.
Blue blocking glasses and sleep hygiene
I wake up 4 times a night. No matter what. Unless I drunk myself to the point of almost being sick, then I will sometimes sleep 5hrs straight. But it's not a sure thing, and I feel like garbage the next day (duh), and I'm not about to murder my liver.
If anyone has a Miracle in their pocket, I could sure use one.
@baconslave - if I had a miracle stashed away, I would gladly gift it to you. I know your condition is the thing of nightmares, literally... I wonder if it is a combo of things you need? Or something you haven't even touched upon yet?
I know most folks (Asprey included, Emmerich, too, and others) have to use a combo of glutamine, GABA, 5-htp, DPA, B-6, C, Zinc, SAMe, and L-Theanine. I know that melatonin has never worked for me, but L-Theanine did...sorta. And 5-htp won't knock me out on it's own, but if I'm already tired, it does okay. I generally wake up to pee, but I don't mind that as I get back to sleep pretty quickly... But my electrolyte hydration issues do not run back to eye danger the way yours do, and I think the anxiety from that alone would probably keep me from sleeping, no matter what!!!0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »baconslave wrote: »Nothing works for me.
5-htp
melatonin
salt
collagen
herbal stuff: valerian, passionflower, and etc.
Blue blocking glasses and sleep hygiene
I wake up 4 times a night. No matter what. Unless I drunk myself to the point of almost being sick, then I will sometimes sleep 5hrs straight. But it's not a sure thing, and I feel like garbage the next day (duh), and I'm not about to murder my liver.
If anyone has a Miracle in their pocket, I could sure use one.
@baconslave - if I had a miracle stashed away, I would gladly gift it to you. I know your condition is the thing of nightmares, literally... I wonder if it is a combo of things you need? Or something you haven't even touched upon yet?
I know most folks (Asprey included, Emmerich, too, and others) have to use a combo of glutamine, GABA, 5-htp, DPA, B-6, C, Zinc, SAMe, and L-Theanine. I know that melatonin has never worked for me, but L-Theanine did...sorta. And 5-htp won't knock me out on it's own, but if I'm already tired, it does okay. I generally wake up to pee, but I don't mind that as I get back to sleep pretty quickly... But my electrolyte hydration issues do not run back to eye danger the way yours do, and I think the anxiety from that alone would probably keep me from sleeping, no matter what!!!
I take glutamine, lots of C, zinc, the melatonin has B6 in it, the herbal thing has l-theanine...
I fall asleep as soon as the head hits the pillow pretty much. I wake twice to pee 5-gal buckets worth. The other times its hot flashes or a jolt of "who the hell knows what."
The pilocarpine and eyegoop hold the nighttime cornea issues off 90% of the time, though I had one minor one last night, and the week before TOM I get a flare. My mouth is still dry as a bone even with the med in my system at night.
I take 3 different adaptogens during the day. And despite the DMARD, my joints are aching again. I have to take Aleve at night again now.
It's flaming dumb. I'm still in the over 4 month wait to see a rheumy...but I don't expect they have much to offer me since I'm seronegative.
Much dumz...
Nothing to do but keep on keeping on.
And to strength train cuz F-you Sjogren's.
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@baconslave - hot flash stuff - did you see @cstehansen post about his wife taking Fenugreek for that? If it's real hot flash stuff...
I was having weird hot flashes due to my new thyroid med - then I stopped the carnitine, and it leveled out in days. Like really. I was CRAZY... I read that it interferes, but I guess only with part of it, because now that Armour is solidly absorbing, I feel better, less crazy permanent hot flash stuff, and just...wow...
And F all autoimmune stuff, seronegative or NOT. It all sucks.
P.S. I dropped most of my C, as it can dehydrate...I only take the C that's the co-factor blend in my 5-htp stuff now, unless I'm sick.0 -
I agree. I have managed to get my sleep to 5 hours straight (usually) but I really need more than that. With fibromyalgia I don't get Stage 3 & 4 sleep, the non-REM sleep that is restorative. I have a sleep plan too. Really good earplugs, a closed bedroom door, soft eyeshades (I go to bed at 5:30 AM due to work), sometimes a soft scarf if my neck is sore, two different pillows to switch out with no pillow at all, always a sleep T, sometimes cozy socks. I find I sleep better with a snack just before bed, but that has its own issues. 5g Melatonin when I travel (any less doesn't work for me).KnitOrMiss wrote: »And F all autoimmune stuff, seronegative or NOT. It all sucks.
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I've been working on the 'how to stay asleep without waking several times a night' thing. I definitely have a cut off time for liquids, otherwise my kidneys get excited and punish me. I've had a few nights where I got up 6+ times to go! Since exploring the ketogenic/LCHF/LC WOE, I've learned the importance of salt- especially being a coffee drinker......I think I've been dehydrated for years!
The first time I read this thread, I did try eating some salt before bed a few times and then "forgot" about it. I did not experience any changes at that time, but it was obviously not much of an effort...lol!
The last 7 days I've been taking a few swigs of my Keto-aid (Himalayan salt, Magnesium, No-Salt) before bed and I have noticed a difference! A few nights I slept solidly! Yay! I still need to make some changes with my bedtime routine, though... it's a start.... Salt on!
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@canadjineh - That makes me so sad! What a state of misery. (HUGS-gentle style)1
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »@EggToni - Something else I use that really helps is that I have a blue-blocker on my phone - and I use a meditation app to fall asleep. It's a piece of music that I ONLY use to go to sleep with. And if I wake up to use the restroom and can't get back to sleep, I use it then, again, too. My mind is getting better trained to relax and sleep with that particular music. It's just a basic free meditation app with a timer.
Oh, and I use "Sleep Time" as a morning alarm. It wakes you up any time inside a 30 minute window based on when you are in your lightest sleep (the phone is on the bed next to you while you sleep and it tracks movement, etc.). Even if I end up waking up at the beginning of the 30 minute window, I always feel more rested than if my alarm jolted me out of deep sleep or a dream. It's annoying as a person who loves her sleep to feel "short-changed" of that 30 minutes, BUT, and it's a HUGE but...it takes only a few times of waking up and not feeling groggy/like you want to shoot the alarm clock to make you realize what a difference it makes!
I like these two ideas. Trying it out tonight! Thx again. And may we all sleep and feel better soon!1 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@EggToni
https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/amino-acids-pyroluria-supplements/
I think this is one of those pages that kind of explains which aminos are better for what...
Excerpt: Supplements for low GABA (stiff and tense muscles, anxious, panic attacks, use sugar/wine to relax)
Supplements for low serotonin (worry, rumination, negativity, afternoon and evening cravings and insomnia)
And so on .... I've saved down a number of information pages, so if you're any questions or it seems like a link I post didn't include the info expected, let me know, it may be in a different link...
Oh, and this is the article that got me started on the amino path in the first place!
http://carbsyndrome.com/is-your-brain-two-quarts-low/
@KnitOrMiss Really good information here. Thanks.1 -
baconslave wrote: »Nothing works for me.
5-htp
melatonin
salt
collagen
herbal stuff: valerian, passionflower, and etc.
Blue blocking glasses and sleep hygiene
I wake up 4 times a night. No matter what.
If anyone has a Miracle in their pocket, I could sure use one.
I am guaranteed to wakeup 1-2 or more a night, whenever I try to catch-up on my water quota towards the end of the day. ...so I keep a pitcher of filtered water upstairs and have 2-3 glasses between waking before I go downstairs. I have not got it down to a science, as to when I can have my last glass of water, but I am underway of finding my answer.
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My Son, who uses smart devices right up to head on pillow and sometimes beyond, recommends this app, FLUX. FLUX gradually lowers the blue light emitted on devices on which it is installed. It is the blue light waves that interferes with melatonin production.
https://forum.justgetflux.com/topic/3675/f-lux-beta-for-windows (This is the windows link, but it has apps for Macs and Android too.)1 -
I use flux on my work computer, but I prefer a set bluelight filter on my phone... I think it is called eye care or Bluelight Filter...1
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I wonder if I can sneak FLUX onto my work iPhone....
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I don't know why not. It passes all the virus checks I've tried...1
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Only problem is it's an iPhone and I'm an Android girl... Totally clueless as to how to do anything on it but phone, and send photos in text. If I want to do anything else while I'm at work, I pull out my personal LG phone
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At first the keto rush kept me flying for almost a year; 3-4 hrs sleep and never tired but always feeling speedy.
On maintenance I have stablized somewhat with sleep but anxieties of living really messed with me getting to sleep and the 3am wake up was hard to overcome.
I dont like the smell of lavendar, and the essntial oil I have is very potent. I found that by putting a drop on the tip of my nose and breathing deeply a couple times, I would just ease into sleep...no prob.
I really still dont like the smell, but I do believe it causes enough of a brain reaction to get the job done!
Even the quality of sleep feels better, more relaxed, less stressed.
Might be worth a shot.3 -
@elize7 - I saw somewhere recently that coriander (aka the seed form of cilantro) can aid in sleep, as well. You can cut the lavender with carrier oil (like jojoba, though it is one of the few safe to use straight), and there are different brands/types of lavender that smell differently (I also don't like the smell of it. Like REALLY REALLY don't like it.). I definitely would keep experimenting, as you might develop a love of one form of lavender, or discover something totally different, too. Coriander is listed as sedative, relaxation, and anti-spasmodic.0
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Hmmm, I'm still struggling with this and since I REALLY REALLY love the scent of lavender I'm wondering how come I haven't experimented with it. I even have lavender essential oil on hand, left over from earlier DIY skin care exploits.
A side note: I had dinner guests yesterday, so there were seven of us here. All four of us women mentioned that we have lots of trouble sleeping. All three guys said "Huh?" So not fair.0 -
mandycat223 wrote: »Hmmm, I'm still struggling with this and since I REALLY REALLY love the scent of lavender I'm wondering how come I haven't experimented with it. I even have lavender essential oil on hand, left over from earlier DIY skin care exploits.
Used with caution, it's a sedative. Use too much - and it becomes a stimulant.A side note: I had dinner guests yesterday, so there were seven of us here. All four of us women mentioned that we have lots of trouble sleeping. All three guys said "Huh?" So not fair.
I know. My H does the same. he can put his head on the pillow, and be asleep in under 2 minutes.
They call it 'sleeping like a baby'.
Looking at the mental age of some guys, I can see why....
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